On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast we’ve got a couple of old friends who are both multi-hyphenates: film directors, actors, writers, musicians, and perhaps most importantly, opinionated rabble-rousers who’ve spent decades pushing at the edges of culture—especially sexual politics—and gleefully widening its scope. It’s John Cameron Mitchell and Sook-Yin Lee.

Mitchell is perhaps best known for co-writing and starring in Hedwig and the Angry Inch, the late-'90s stage musical that became a cult-classic movie. It was the beginning of a career that has championed queerness and otherness, pushing those things into a mainstream that has sometimes been welcoming, but most times not so much. He followed Hedwig with Shortbus, whose frank depictions of sexuality were probably a little too intense for wider audiences. Mitchell has also done really interesting work as an actor in other people’s projects, including playing Tiger King Joe Exotic in a miniseries not too long ago. As you’ll hear in this chat, he’s working on a project about Alan Ginsberg in 1968, a time that should be more distant than it feels like at the moment. Mitchell is heading out on a Hedwig anniversary tour that will include screenings of the film plus live performance and conversation; check out hedwig25.com for info.

The other half of today’s chat, Sook-Yin Lee, met Mitchell way back when, as you’ll hear, when she auditioned for him—sort of. She had roles in both Hedwig and Shortbus, but has also lived other lives as a TV presenter in Canada and a prolific film director. For the past couple of years she’s taken her latest film, Paying For It, straight to audiences along with her friend Chester Brown, whose graphic novel is the film’s basis. It’s a comedy about a couple that opens their relationship, and one of them decides to experiment by paying for sex. You can stream it most anywhere now, but that’s not all Lee has been up to: She just released a new album of catchy, skewed electro-pop called 72RHR. Check out the song “A Hollow” right here.

In this funny, fiery conversation, Mitchell and Lee talk about their early days together, about Alan Ginsberg and how the times he lived through don’t seem to be over, about Mitchell’s adopted New Orleans home, the power of art and lots more. Enjoy.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to Sook-Yin Lee and John Cameron Mitchell for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!