James Watson is a musician, music educator and a lovely fella who possesses many of the same qualities as a golden retriever. He’s warm, loveable and quick to make friends. He’s also deeply thoughtful and considered, as you’ll hear in this conversation about changing churches, evolving beliefs and the ‘little hurts’ that can build up in communities over time. At the end of the chat he shares a song he wrote in anticipation of this podcast interview. And trust me, it’s a goody. You’ll probably want to play it twice, like I did the first time he sent me a voice memo with a rough recording. 

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Rob Waters, Gomeroi poet and storyteller and the current Australian Poetry Slam champion joined me for a rich and deep conversation about an all-encompassing spirituality that exists beyond the boxes of a compartmentalised life. Rob shares about the grounding role of Country and Story from a First Nations perspective. We then explore the prophetic role of the poets in speaking truth in an unjust world, while also acknowledging that listening ought to precede speaking. 

Towards the end of the conversation Rob shares two powerful poems and some particularly poignant and challenging stories. There’s great wisdom here for those who take the time to open their hearts and listen. Big love to Rob for sharing with us ❤️ 

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Hello my friends

A few words at the top here before the episode starts.

I had to rearrange some interviews I had lined up for this week — so I’m pulling a great conversation out of the archive for you. Given that last weekend was Mardi Gras, I thought I’d replay this wonderful panel conversation we recorded just over a year ago in conjunction with World Pride. It was a great chat with Karl, Karen and Tash — certainly worth listening to either for the first time or to catch something new on a second listen.

I also wanted to take a moment here to highlight the Gaza Ceasefire Pilgrimages which have been happening during Lent. The circumstances in Gaza continue to be horrendous. I’m sure so many of you, like me, feel at a loss for words and for the right actions. If you haven’t already heard of the Gaza Ceasefire Pilgrimage this has become a worldwide movement of Christian groups hosting 41km walks — the length of Gaza — as an act of solidarity as well as a nonviolent protest, calling for a permanent ceasefire. These walks are hosted by Christians, welcoming of people from all or no faith background, and are built around strong core convictions, including condemning anti-semitism, which is not the same thing as critiquing the Israeli government.

At Meeting Ground church, we will be doing 4 10km walks during Holy Week, starting on Palm Sunday. As we prepare to reflect on the crucified Christ at Easter, I cannot think of a more pertinent time to try to connect our bodies, minds and hearts with those who are unjustly crucified, scapegoated and oppressed — in our world today. If you happen to be on the Central Coast and you want to join us reach out. Otherwise, check out gazaceasefirepilgrimage.com to learn more and connect with groups and organisers in your neck of the woods. I know many listeners will have already participated in pilgrimages in recent weeks, and if that’s the case, big respect to you and your crew. 

Where ever you find yourself this week may you turn your ears and your voice and your being in the direction of love that perseveres. 

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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Will and Hannah debrief their thoughts after binging 'Prosper' on Stan. 

We avoid spoilers, and there's still plenty of interesting questions here for people who haven't watched the show. So get yourself a cuppa and join us as we discuss wealth,  celebrity pastors, corruption and more.

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Emily Hayes is the minister at Alice Springs Uniting Church. Mitch and Will met Emily towards the end of 2023 at a gathering and began a fascinating conversation which they pick up in this episode, exploring things like calling, discernment, and a spirituality of place and deep listening. 

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Sarah McCammon is an award-winning National Political Respodent for NPR and the author of the upcoming book: 'The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living and Leaving the White Evangelical Church'.

‘The Exvangelicals’ is part-memoir and part-journalism, providing a guided tour through the significant religious and political social shifts happening in our current historical moment, interwoven with Sarah’s own story growing up evangelical.

As I said to Sarah multiple times throughout our conversation, I  deeply appreciated this book. But don't just take my word for it! It’s endorsed by people like Brian McLaren, Nadia Bolz Weber, Jemar Tisby and Kristen Kobes Du Mez.

I don’t want to overstate the influence of American evangelicalism here in Australia….but I also don’t want to understate it.  What America exports in faith, politics and culture show up in so many ways we would do well to critically ponder.

Listen to this chat and then go and pre-order Sarah's book from the link below!

Pre-order the book here: https://static.macmillan.com/static/smp/the-exvangelicals/

Subscribe to Sarah’s Substack here: https://sarahmccammon.substack.com/

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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If you listened to our advent episode you got to hear some beautiful Christmas music from Peter Espevoll with some production from Jon Reinhardt (who you may remember if you listened to the ‘experience of David Bentley Hart’ episode).

What you may be surprised to hear is that despite putting out a Christmas album recently Peter’s musical background is primarily in the death metal scene - some of you may have even heard of the band Extol. Formed in the 90s they were a Norwegian Christian death metal band, who actually managed the rare achievement of having a decent amount of cross-over success beyond the Christian music industry.

But there came a point when Peter couldn’t even step into the studio or onto a stage anymore. Initially it was for health reasons…but that led to a major questions in Peter’s once confident faith.

This episode explores that story…and is a powerful listen, whether or not you’re a fan of death metal!

Listen to Extol on Spotify here: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3A6RBkFY3kND3Z5kXM3Cz3?si=wx4X1bG3S9a6HTnhEMxfrA

Listen to Peter’s current project, Hrada:

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4phufaK8eMLEMSnd36h4Yf?si=L-bYznObQ4qXMjvA_kanig

On Bandcamp: https://hrada.bandcamp.com/

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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Kristen LaValley is a writer whose works  offers “insights that intersect doubt and belief, hope and suffering, beauty and heartache, complexity and simplicity.” Questioning and curiosity have always been a natural part of Kristen’s faith from her childhood through to now.

Kristen’s upcoming book, ‘Even if He Doesn’t’ opens up some of Kristen’s own experiences of suffering, confusion and heartache, alongside an exploration of theology that doesn’t reduce faith to simplistic formulas.

See the ‘cultural history of deconstruction post’ we discuss from Kristen’s Instagram account here: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cwz5TSwriDm/?igsh=MTVxc3p4bjFoZXoxbw==

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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Nils von Kalm is an award-winning freelance writer, whose work seeks to lift people's dignity. Nils explores the intersections between faith and the complexities of life.

In this conversation Nils shares vulnerably about formational moments in his own life, including his experience of the 'Men's Rites of Passage' (founded by Fr. Richard Rohr) and his visits to Gaza and Israel when working for an international aid and development organisation. Throughout the conversation Nils articulates what it means for him to live and express a faith that focuses on the margins, rather than the centre. 

I really enjoyed this conversation and hope you do too. 

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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Liz Cooledge Jenkins joins Hannah and Will for a conversation about her new book 'Nice Churchy Patriarchy', unpacking all the subtle but damaging ways patriarchy can operate in 'nice' Christian spaces and inviting us to imagine and participate in more equitable and just ways of creating faith communities.

Connect with Liz's work here: https://lizcooledgejenkins.com/

About 'Nice Churchy Patriarchy': https://lizcooledgejenkins.com/nice-churchy-patriarchy/

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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