Ten years from now Kiwibank CEO Steve Jurkovich wants New Zealanders to be thinking about their big five, rather than big four, banks, with Kiwibank in there mixing it with the four Aussie owned banks and not the smallest among them.

In the latest episode of interest.co.nz's Of Interest podcast, Jurkovich speaks about where the now 21 year-old Kiwibank has come from, where it's at, and where it's heading. This comes with the bank having just posted a 34% increase in annual profit to a record high of $175 million.

"I'd certainly like New Zealand to be thinking about its big five banks. And I guess my stretch goal is that we're not the fifth biggest, we're the third or the fourth. And I don't think there's any reason we can't be that. Whether I'm here running it or not, I hope I've played my part in getting it there. I'd like people to look back and go 'remember when it was only making $175 million? Remember when it only had a million customers? And look at it now'," he says.

Speaking about the Commerce Commission's market study into personal banking competition, Jurkovich says if they want a bigger Kiwibank and more bank profit staying in NZ, New Zealanders need to exercise their choice.

"Because leaving it up to the Government, and we have lots of people in New Zealand who complain that the Government does too much, I don't think is going to change anything. We have to be good enough to earn your business, and you have to be fired up enough to make a move. And if we can get those two things together, then we'll have a way more competitive market place." 

Jurkovich also reveals he has been meeting weekly with the CEOs of the big four banks - ANZ NZ, ASB, BNZ and Westpac NZ - for about the past month to discuss mounting concerns about scams and frauds being committed against their customers. The New Zealand Banking Association's CEO Roger Beaumont has facilitated these meetings.

"If I think about the things I really worry about, scams and fraud are definitely one of them. Our own fraud rates are growing at north of 100%," says Jurkovich. "This needs to be a joint arms race otherwise we've got no chance."

In the podcast he also talks about tough times in the housing market as customers' mortgage payments jump, the potential for a partial government sell-down of Kiwibank via a share market listing should the Government change in October's election, Kiwibank's plans to grow and build capital and what a requirement to pay a chunky dividend would mean for these, how the bank has moved on from an expensive, failed core banking system upgrade just before he joined as CEO five years ago, why Kiwibank won't be entering the institutional or rural banking markets anytime soon, and the bank's role in a decarbonising economy.

"I really feel like a 21 year-old. We're just getting started," Jurkovich says.

*You can find all episodes of the Of Interest podcast here.