Strange Loop Podcast

This episode is part of our “Summer Selects” series—curated archival episodes that shifted our perspective and are worth revisiting.

Hear the Godfather of AI Geoffrey Hinton reflect on the journey from the early days of neural networks to today’s breakthroughs in artificial intelligence, sharing unique insights from decades of pioneering research.

Discover why Hinton believes that scaling up AI models leads to creativity and reasoning that rivals (and may eventually surpass) human intelligence. Hear his candid thoughts on how language models learn, why intuition and training data matter, and what current models still have to learn from the human brain.

This conversation between Geoffrey Hinton and Joel Hellermark was originally recorded in April 2024 at the Royal Institute of Great Britain in London. An edited version was premiered at Sana AI Summit 2024 in Stockholm, Sweden.

What's in this episode

• The surprising similarities (and differences) between AI and the human mind

• Why multi-modality and fast weights could be the next frontiers in AI

• How AI models might develop subjective experience and even “feelings”

• Hinton’s advice to young researchers about trusting intuition and challenging consensus

• Reflections on leadership, collaboration, and building teams for breakthrough science

—

Transcript: https://sanalabs.com/strange-loop/geoffrey-hinton

—

About Strange Loop

Strange Loop is a podcast about how artificial intelligence is reshaping the systems we live and work in. Each episode features deep, unscripted conversations with thinkers and builders reimagining intelligence, leadership, and the architectures of progress. The goal is not just to follow AI’s trajectory, but to question the assumptions guiding it.

Subscribe for more conversations at the edge of AI and human knowledge.

—

Timestamps

(00:00:00) Early inspirations

(00:05:05) Meeting Ilya Sutskever

(00:06:12) Ilya’s intuition

(00:09:00) Understanding of LLMs

(00:15:15) Scaling neural networks

(00:18:30) What is language?

(00:21:35) The GPU revolution

(00:25:05) Human Brain Insights

(00:29:05) Feelings & analogies

(00:32:58) Problem selection

(00:35:21) Gradient processing

(00:36:52) Ethical implications

(00:40:15) Selecting talent

(00:41:49) Developing intuition

(00:43:50) The road to AGI

(00:45:00) Proudest moment

—

Where to find Geoffrey

• X: https://x.com/geoffreyhinton

—

Where to find Joel

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-hellermark/

• X: https://x.com/joelhellermark

Most companies are using AI to cut costs. Ethan Mollick argues that the biggest mistake companies make is thinking too small.

In the first episode of Strange Loop, Wharton professor and leading AI researcher Ethan Mollick joins Sana founder and CEO Joel Hellermark for a candid and wide-ranging conversation about the rapidly changing world of AI at work.

They explore how AI is not just an efficiency tool but a turning point—one that forces a choice between incremental optimization and transformational scale. The discussion covers the roots of machine intelligence, the relevance of AGI, and what it takes to build organizations designed from the ground up for an AI-native future.

What’s in this episode

• Why most companies are underestimating what AI makes possible
• The tension between using AI for efficiency vs. scaling ambition
• How traditional org charts, built for a human-only workforce, are breaking
• The collapse of apprenticeship and its long-term implications- How prompting is becoming a foundational business skill
• Why “cheating” with AI may be the new form of learning
• The risks of using AI to optimize the past instead of inventing the future
• What it means to build truly AI-native teams and organizations

—

Transcript: https://sanalabs.com/strange-loop/ethan-mollick

—

About Strange Loop

Strange Loop is a podcast about how artificial intelligence is reshaping the systems we live and work in. Each episode features deep, unscripted conversations with thinkers and builders reimagining intelligence, leadership, and the architectures of progress. The goal is not just to follow AI’s trajectory, but to question the assumptions guiding it.

Subscribe for more conversations at the edge of AI and human knowledge.

—

Timestamps

(00:20) Origins: AI in the early days at MIT

(01:53) Defining and testing intelligence: Beyond the Turing test

(06:35) Redesigning organizations for the AI era

(08:56) Human augmentation or replacement

(14:58) Navigating AI's jagged frontier

(17:18) The 3 ingredients for successful AI adoption

(23:31) Roles to hire for an AI-first world

(33:41) Do orgs need a Chief AI officer?

(39:45) The interface for AI and human collaboration

(43:50) Rethinking the goals of enterprise AI

(49:15) The case for abundance

(52:30) Best and worse case scenarios

(58:51) Avoiding the trap of enterprise AI KPIs

—

Where to find Ethan

• Newsletter: https://www.oneusefulthing.org/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emollick/
• X: https://x.com/emollick

—

Where to find Joel

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-hellermark/
• X: https://x.com/joelhellermark

Most companies are using AI to cut costs. Ethan Mollick argues they’re missing the bigger opportunity.

In this episode preview from Strange Loop Podcast, Ethan explains the strategic crossroads AI creates for every business: Use AI to do more with fewer people or use it to scale ambition and build something transformative.

This clip is a glimpse into a bigger conversation with Sana's founder and CEO Joel Hellermark on how AI is reshaping work, leadership, and learning.

Subscribe to get the full episode as soon as it launches.