Is writing for non-profit organizations any different from writing for other businesses or clients? It turns out, the answer is "yes". Because most of the time your "customer" won't receive a product or service when they "buy". And that means you need to be very good at providing the experiences and stories they want in the copy you write. Our guest for the 380th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Shterna Lazaroff and she's got a lot to say on the topic, so stay tune

Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

The Copywriter Club Facebook Group

The Copywriter Underground

Full Transcript:

Rob Marsh: If you're looking for a niche with lots of clients and plenty of money to spend, you could do a lot worse than writing for the nonprofit sector. As of a couple of years ago, there were more than 1.49 million charitable organizations in the United States alone and hundreds of thousands more in other countries. And spending at nonprofits accounts for more than $2.46 trillion. And that, again, is just in the United States. If you add in all of the other countries in the world, it's double or triple that. And some portion of that is paid to copywriters. 

Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kara Hug, and I interviewed Shterna Lazaroff, who has spent a good part of her career focused on fundraising and helping nonprofits succeed. While many of the principles of good copywriting apply to writing for charity, Shterna tells us that there are a few differences, so you may want to stick around to hear what they are and perhaps use that knowledge to land a client in the nonprofit world for yourself. 

Now, this is where I usually break in and talk a bit about the Copywriter Underground. I could do that again. I could tell you about the training. I could tell you about the community. I could tell you about the copy critiques, the copy coaching that happens there every month. You've heard me talk about all of that stuff before. So my real question for you is what are you waiting for? What is keeping you from going to thecopyrighterclub.com/TCU and at least checking out all the resources that are listed there? 

There's a ton of information there about what it includes and what being a member will get you. And just, you know, as a selfish point, being a member is a great way to support this podcast and all the other resources that we provide for copywriters and content writers. So that URL again to visit thecopyrighterclub.com/TCU, check it out. And if it's a fit for you, join, join the more than 200 other copywriters in there who are working hard to build a successful business. 

Now let's jump into our interview with Sterna Lazaroff.

Kira Hug: All right, let's kick off as we do with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter?

Shterna Lazaroff: So every job I've ever had has always had what to do with writing. I was always like the family writer, the one doing every time someone in the family needed something. So when I first was looking for my first job, just ended up was actually the editor of my high school magazine was working at like a small local kids magazine and I had worked with her in high school. She reached out, she's like, Hey, do you want a job editing for me? So that was my first, first job ever. And I had always wanted to be a writer. It was always like when I was younger and you asked me what I wanted to do, I always said I wanted to be a writer. But there was this conception that like everyone used to tell me like writers don't make money and it's not really sustainable income and all that. And then When I left this magazine after two years, I had this period of like, I don't know what to do next. And I was still very young. And I remember having this realization. I was like, wait, I just spent two years hiring writers. Why can't I be one of the writers that people are hiring? 

I had until then thought that the pretty much the only way to use like my writing skills was on the editorial side because writers don't make money and I was like I'm paying them money so I'll be the one who's getting paid and so I started writing um I started writing actually the first few things I started with were articles for two of the biggest Jewish magazines that are distributed globally like hundreds of thousands of families read them every week. And I basically started writing for those and eventually discovered copywriting. I had started working part-time in a nonprofit. And as I was researching all the writing work I was doing for them, they were just like, we need an in-house writer. And I was like, sure, I could write. And I like nonprofits. I actually discovered that what I was doing was this thing called copywriting. And that's when I kind of went full force in and took it from there.

Rob Marsh: Talk a little bit about that shift from the content you're writing to copywriting, because oftentimes people talk about them being different skills. I actually don't think they're all that different. I think I've been vocal about that in the past. But as you started to make that shift, what did you have to do differently? What kinds of things were you trying to teach yourself and learn so that you could apply those skills in a new way?

Shterna Lazaroff: It's a good question. A lot of the core things overlap, like I would say the ability to write under tight constraints or with a tight work hand or to communicate something under very specific guidelines is something that definitely overlaps from content to copy. The main difference is probably that with content, I think you have a bit more leeway to make the takeaway be whatever you want it to be, as opposed to with copy, there's usually a very clear end goal. You're putting that piece out because there's something you want from it, as opposed to with content, or at least the kind of content I was doing as a magazine writer, I was doing a lot of feature lifestyle pieces. It was really just the goal was to entertain. And with copy, the goal is really to not just give people a good way to spend a half hour reading, but to actually get them to do something with what you're saying. So there was a bit more like focused on like with every word that you're writing, you're really thinking about like, is this moving me forward to what we want to happen because of this piece?

Kira Hug: Yeah. And with entertainment, I mean, I think entertaining can be hard. So what is something, how do you think about entertaining in your content and your copy? Like what are some of your, I don't want to call them tricks. What, how do you approach it?

Shterna Lazaroff: I think it's, it overlaps with the reason why I chose my niche in nonprofit copywriting where as a content writer, I was, I always loved telling people's stories and, and writing those things, someone who had like a very interesting life or did something of real impact and featuring it and giving a spotlight to that. And so the skills that I was using a lot were like these very strong storytelling skills and really drawing people into the narrative and making them feel whatever I wanted them to feel at the time. And it's one of the reasons that I think I was very drawn to nonprofit copywriting aside from, you know, the mission. And I like knowing that my work is meaningful, but I think that the skills actually overlap a lot. And this is something that I've had a few arguments with people about, but I, I would argue that nonprofit copywriting more than other niches, relies very, very much on specifically strong writing skills. I think there are a lot of industries in the copy world where you can, you always have to have a basic level of strong writing, but you can compensate for weaker writing skills in terms of having a really good like CRO background or a lot of industry knowledge and a lot of copy conversion skills, as opposed to nonprofit copywriting, where of course all of that comes in. But at the end of the day, the narrative and the emotion and all of that that you're bringing into it is very much going to weigh heavily on the level of writing skill you bring to the table. So that was something that very much overlaps between the both of them.

Rob Marsh: That makes a lot of sense because with most non-profits, you're not really getting anything in return for what you spend as opposed to if you're buying a course or a book or a vacation or whatever. What you're buying is that experience of giving. So I, I'm curious, like, okay, in addition to just like storytelling or being very emotional, are there other things that you're thinking about when you're writing for, you know, a nonprofit clients that you're making that experience of engaging with the, you know the letter, the request for funding or, you know, the donation letter, whatever that is so that that actually becomes an experience.

Shterna Lazaroff: So I lean very heavily back on what we were saying, which is the storytelling part of it, the really drawing people in with like a strong hook, a strong narrative, something that immediately puts them in that person's shoes or in that situation where they can feel everything you want them to feel so that there's no doubt in their mind that this is something that they can, not only they can, that they want to be part of in a transformation they want to make possible. Other than that, copywriting, I'm saying I borrow a lot from just typical conversion skills where let's say building in, I wouldn't say scarcity, but always having, answering the question of why now. There always has to be a reason where like some sort of urgency of, oh, here's a reason why you should not just read this letter and be inspired, but read this letter and know that the opportunity to make this specific change is running out.