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⚠️WARNING⚠️: If you're a self-proclaimed thought leader, you will probably be offended by this episode. Or, maybe you'll be inspired to lean on research, data, and the learnings we get from testing what actually works. In this episode, Katie interviews Nathan Hill, the VP of Marketing for Next After, a leading nonprofit research company. Next After is blazing a trail by researching what works in fundraising and digital marketing. 

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