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In this episode of The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, Rebecca Gruenspan sits down with Dr. Joyce Maguire Pavao—a pioneer in the world of adoption, an adoptee herself, and the author of The Family of Adoption.
With over five decades of clinical experience, Dr. Pavao challenges the idea that adoption is something to be “fixed,” and instead invites us to see it as a lifelong experience that demands truth, openness, and deep emotional care.
In this powerful conversation, Dr. Pavao unpacks the psychology of adoption, the concept of ambiguous loss, and the invisible grief so often overlooked. She shares practical guidance for adoptive parents—how to talk about adoption, how to recognize adoption-related trauma, and how to support their children through it without over-pathologizing them. From early separation and normative crises to adoption-competent therapy and systemic change, this episode is filled with wisdom every member of the adoption constellation needs to hear.
Important Links
Dr. Joyce Maguire Pavao
Email: [email protected]
The Family of Adoption
Sweet Peach Tree – Clean, natural hair + skin products for melanin-rich families. Use code ROADMAP10 for 10% off your first order
RG Adoption Consulting Take our FREE quiz: “Am I Ready to Adopt?”
Chapters
00:00 Celebrating Milestones and Community Engagement
03:14 Understanding Adoption: A Lifelong Journey
05:48 The Child-Centric Approach in Adoption
09:13 Normative Crises in Adoption
12:05 The Impact of Early Adoption Experiences
14:55 Creating Adoption Competent Therapists
18:05 Ambiguous Loss in Adoption
20:50 Supporting Children Through Invisible Loss
24:01 Indirect Communication Strategies for Parents
26:54 Recognizing Trauma in Adopted Children
30:06 Understanding Behavioral Responses in Adoptees
33:02 The Complexity of Adoption Experiences
36:13 Encouraging Open Conversations in Adoption
38:57 The Role of Parents in Navigating Adoption Challenges
41:58 Empowering Adoptees to Share Their Stories
46:31 Navigating Family Dynamics in Adoption
49:41 The Vulnerability of Pre-Adoptive Parents
55:29 The Need for Honest Conversations in Adoption
57:40 Challenges in the Adoption System
01:02:33 The Importance of Community in Healing
01:10:31 Therapeutic Approaches for Adoptive Families
01:12:32 Understanding Healing vs. Fixing
01:16:29 Building Connections and Community
01:23:59 Embracing the Truth of Adoption
RG Adoption Consulting
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
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adoption, adoption trauma, ambiguous loss, adoption therapist, how to talk to your child about adoption, signs of trauma in adopted children, adoption grief and loss, Dr. Joyce Maguire Pavao, The Family of Adoption, lifelong impact of adoption, adoptive parent advice
You can be willing to adopt a Black child. But are you prepared to raise one?
Rhonda Chandler knows firsthand that transracial adoption requires more than love. After seeing the lack of representation and community available to Black and biracial youth, she founded Loving the Skin I’m In and later Melanated Adoption Journey to help families navigate the cultural, identity, and parenting challenges that can come with transracial adoption.
In this episode, Rhonda shares why families need to do the work before they ever bring a child home—from examining their own biases and building relationships within the Black community to understanding hair and skincare, creating representation at home, and preparing for the experiences their child may face in the world.
In this episode, we talk about:
About Rhonda:
Rhonda Chandler is a social worker, mother, and founder of Loving the Skin I’m In and Melanated Adoption Journey. Her work focuses on supporting Black and biracial youth and helping transracial adoptive and foster families become more intentional and prepared in raising children whose racial and cultural experiences may differ from their own.
Through education, community, resources, and family support, Rhonda helps parents build the cultural awareness, connections, and confidence needed to support their children’s identity and sense of belonging.
Connect with Rhonda:
Lovin the Skin I'm In: https://lovinmyskinwi.com/
Melanated Adoption Journey: https://melanatedadoptionjourney.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhonda-chandler-a97692206
If you enjoyed this episode, please check out: Ep. #31: Beyond the Hair ~ Transforming Lives Through Cultural Connection and Transracial Adoption with Tamekia Swint
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5AW6MW4YAHVs1QtaeMP22M?si=57ac4d715ca14cdc
RG Adoption Consulting
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Sweet Peach Tree (Sponsor) → https://sweetpeachtree.com/, use the code ROADMAP10 for 10% off.
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
Your baby won’t remember the adoption. But your teenager might have a lot to say about it.
At 15, Melissa packed a bag and left her grandparents’ home, believing she was running toward her mom and finally getting the family she needed. Instead, she found herself on her own, working full-time at Wendy’s, having dropped out of high school, and pregnant at 16.
Today, Melissa is a licensed therapist, former foster youth, mom to seven, and adoptive parent. She has also fostered older children, worked extensively with teens and adoptees, and spent years supporting teen moms through a ministry she founded with her best friend.
In this episode, Melissa brings both her personal experience and professional expertise to one of the most important conversations adoptive parents can have: what happens after the baby comes home. From why adoption-related grief can resurface during adolescence, to what “running away” may actually be communicating, she explains why parents need to think beyond infancy and start building their relationship with their future teenager from day one.
In this episode, we talk about:
About Melissa:
Melissa Smallwood is a licensed therapist, former foster youth, adoptive parent, and mom to seven. Her personal experience with foster care, teen motherhood, and adoption deeply informs her work with adoptees, foster youth, and families. She has also fostered older children and spent years supporting teen moms, bringing both lived experience and professional expertise to conversations around adoption, trauma, attachment, identity, and adolescence.
Connect with Melissa:
Website: https://www.mendingheartscoaching.com/about
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissasmallwood/
RG Adoption Consulting
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://form.jotform.com/261976309097066
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
Rob LaMarche has seen adoption from nearly every angle—and he’s sharing what families should know before taking the next step.
When Rob LaMarche met Casey at age 11, he was simply his client. Three years later, after a legal battle against a Florida law that prohibited gay people from adopting, Casey became his son. That fight changed the course of Rob’s life, leading him to law school and a career advocating for children and families through adoption.
Today, Rob is the executive director and in-house attorney for ACF Adoptions, a nonprofit agency that has been placing babies since 1992. He’s also an adoptive parent of three, a licensed clinical social worker, and someone who understands adoption from nearly every angle.
In this episode, Rob pulls back the curtain on how adoption agencies actually operate. From the real costs of running an ethical agency and why adoption expenses can vary so dramatically, to the safeguards that protect expectant parents and the red flags hopeful adoptive parents should watch for, he offers a level of transparency families don't often get.
In this episode, we talk about:
About Rob:
Robert LaMarche is the executive director and in-house attorney for ACF Adoptions, a private nonprofit adoption agency that has been placing babies since 1992. He is also a licensed clinical social worker and an adoptive father of three.
Rob began his career in child protective services in Massachusetts before moving into adoption work, including matching and supporting pre-adoptive families. After moving to Florida, he adopted his son Casey following a legal battle challenging the state's ban on gay adoption. That experience inspired him to attend law school and pursue a career advocating for children and families. Since joining ACF Adoptions in 2011, Rob has worked across the legal and social services sides of adoption, bringing his professional experience and personal journey to the work of building families.
Connect with Rob:
Website: https://www.adoptionflorida.org/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-lamarche-lcsw-jd-00a6346
About: https://adoptioncouncil.org/guest-contributor/robert-lamarche/
RG Adoption Consulting
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://form.jotform.com/261976309097066
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
In this episode of The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, Rebecca Gruenspan—adoptive parent, consultant, and founder of RG Adoption Consulting—takes you inside her signature presentation: a masterclass on the basics of domestic adoption.
From her own story of 26 failed IUIs to becoming a single mom through adoption, Rebecca walks you step by step through what it really takes to build your family this way. She covers the questions hopeful parents ask most often—about open adoption, profiles, timelines, and costs—and doesn’t shy away from the realities, risks, and emotional work required.
You’ll learn why readiness (emotional and financial) is critical, how to manage fears and expectations, and why building the right team around you makes all the difference. Whether you’re just beginning to explore adoption or you’ve already started your journey, this episode gives you the clarity, encouragement, and practical insight you need.
RG Adoption Consulting
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Our Chosen Child - Use code ROADMAP for $100 off the Social Media Plan + Post Program.→ https://ourchosenchild.com
Sweet Peach Tree (Sponsor) → sweetpeachtree.com – use code ROADMAP10 for 10% off
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
Thirteen years ago, Rebecca called her own adoption consultant and asked if she wanted a business partner. "Call me back in about a year," she said. "I'm not quite ready." Ten minutes later, Rebecca called back: "Then I'm going to be your competitor. Will you help me?"
She had no clients, no marketing plan, and a notebook full of business ideas she'd never once acted on. What she had was a newly adopted son, eight people already asking how she'd done it so fast, and a stubborn feeling that nobody should walk this road alone.
This episode is a crossover from Behind the Scene with Teah — the business side of RG Adoption Consulting, out loud: what it actually took to build it, why every consultant on the team has to have lived the adoption process themselves, and the year Rebecca finally learned to charge what she's worth.
In this episode, Teah Interviews me about:
A reminder from RG Adoption Consulting
If you're seriously considering adoption, you don't have to figure this out alone. Rebecca and her team guide hopeful families through every step using their proven four-step roadmap. In 2025, 62% of their families brought their baby home within 12 months. Book a complimentary adoption strategy session at rgadoptionconsulting.com.
There’s a difference between choosing adoption… and choosing to embrace everything that comes with it.
When Susan Strong’s first round of IVF failed, she didn’t know it would become the beginning of a completely different life. Thirty-four years later, she’s the adoptive mom of two daughters, has lifelong relationships with four birth parents, and has built an open adoption story she never could have planned for.
In this honest and deeply moving conversation, Susan shares what she’s learned about choosing curiosity over fear, trusting your instincts, and building open adoption relationships without a roadmap. From meeting her first birth mother and being asked to adopt her baby after just 15 minutes, to navigating a second adoption with a teenage birth mother, to watching her daughters grow into their own relationships with their birth families, Susan offers a perspective shaped by decades of experience, unexpected loss, and a whole lot of saying yes.
In this episode, we talk about:
About Susan:
Susan Strong is the author of One Yes At A Time: How Open Adoption Transformed Our Family, a book about her family's 34-year journey through open adoption. After an unsuccessful IVF experience, Susan and her husband, Bob, chose adoption and went on to adopt two daughters, Olivia and Caitlin.
What began with two independent adoption journeys grew into lifelong relationships with four birth parents and an extended network of birth family. Susan writes about adoption on Substack and continues to share what she's learned about openness, curiosity, loss, identity, and the relationships that make adoption what it is.
Connect with Susan:
One Yes At A Time: https://www.susanstrongauthor.com/product-page/the-open-adoption-guidebook-1
Website: https://www.susanstrongauthor.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susanstrongauthor
RG Adoption Consulting
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://form.jotform.com/261976309097066
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Get your personalized Adoption Roadmap - https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/roadmap-quiz
Our Chosen Child - Use code ROADMAP for $100 off the Social Media Plan + Post Program.→ https://ourchosenchild.com
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
At three years old, mid-meltdown, Theresa Harmon's son looked up at her and said: "I wanna calm down, Mommy, but I don't know how." She's a social worker. She spent years in child welfare before she became a mom. She was still lost.
Doctors told her what they tell every family: "He'll go through withdrawal, and then he'll be fine." Teresa has spent the last decade fighting that myth.
This episode gets honest about what opioid exposure actually means, not the terrifying Google version, not the everything's-fine-after-the-NICU version, but the truth that lives in between.
In this episode:
About Theresa:
Teresa Harmon is a social worker turned psychiatric nurse practitioner specializing in kids in foster care and adoption who have prenatal opioid exposure. After her oldest son was born opioid-dependent and she couldn't find the support she needed, she founded To The Moon and Back, a Massachusetts-based nonprofit now in its 10th year, serving families nationally through case management, support groups, provider education, and published research with Child Trends. She's an adoptive mom of three, ages 13, 8, and 2.
Connect with Theresa:
To The Moon & Back: tothemoonandback.org
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tothemoonma
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ToTheMoonMA/
Beyond NAS Private Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/beyondnas
Research mentioned:
- TTMAB's 2 published studies (Theresa to send links)
- Dr. Jonathan Davis, Tufts Newborn Medicine — created the alcohol-free methadone formulation for NAS weaning; POE/development research (Theresa to send)
- Child Trends (Bethesda, MD) — TTMAB research partner
- Eat Sleep Console (ESC) — hospital assessment + sensory-based comfort approach for NAS babies
- Kennedy Donovan Center — early intervention (Theresa's rapid-fire shout-out)
- Perkins School for the Blind — flagging high rates of Cortical Visual Impairment (CVI) in POE kids
- MA legislation: automatic early-intervention eligibility bill (Theresa to send status/action link)
RG Adoption Consulting
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://form.jotform.com/261976309097066
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
The Adoption Roadmap: The Four-Step Process To Adopting Your Baby In Less Than A Year → Buy Here on Amazon
Before you choose an agency, spend money, or move forward—start with these 10 honest conversations that will help you: https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/10-conversations-before-you-adopt
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions, or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
Adoptive parent shame, why adopted kids lie, and what co-regulation actually looks like mid-meltdown — trauma therapist and adoptive mom Keli Tondre gets specific.
Last weekend, Keli's19- and 18-year-old spent Friday and Saturday night with her at a music festival — by choice. She doesn't have all the answers. But as a trauma therapist, an adoptive sibling, and an adoptive mom of three, she's got more than most of us.
Her brother was three when he was adopted into her family. For years, she feared someone would take him away — and told no one. Decades later he said, "I won the lottery when I landed in this family." Now she knows what he lost first.
Two adoptions. One Christmas that went way too far. One sentence from a therapist that ended years of shame. You'll know it when you hear it.
About Keli Tondre
Keli Tondre is a trauma therapist and the founder of Tondre Therapeutics, where her entire practice is built around adoptive and foster parents living in survival mode. She's also an adoptive sibling — her parents adopted her older sister, then adopted her younger brother when Keli was almost two — and an adoptive mom of three: a biological daughter, a son adopted domestically, and a daughter adopted from Ethiopia at age four. She works virtually with clients across the U.S. and Canada. https://tondre.org
In this episode, we cover:
This episode is brought to you by Our Chosen Child
Are you growing your family through adoption and doing your outreach independently? Our Chosen Child is an adoption marketing agency helping hopeful parents connect with expectant parents authentically and confidently. Their Social Media Plan and Post Program gives you six months of ready-to-go, easy-to-personalize posts for Instagram and Facebook — no tech skills required. Visit ourchosenchild.com and use code ROADMAP for $100 off your Social Media Plan and Post Program.
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://spotifycreators-web.app.link/e/BNfyVlIUm5b
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Are You Ready to Adopt? Take the Quiz to Find Out → https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/quiz
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
Resources mentioned:
Polyvagal Institute: https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org
Most hopeful adoptive parents think creating an adoption profile is about showcasing their accomplishments, beautiful photos, or writing the perfect story.
In reality, the most successful adoption profiles aren't about impressing anyone. They're about helping an expectant mother picture her child growing up in your family.
In this episode, Rebecca walks through the second step of the Adoption Roadmap and shares exactly what makes an adoption profile stand out. From choosing the right photos and writing authentic copy to avoiding common mistakes that unintentionally push expectant mothers away, she breaks down every section of the profile and explains why each detail matters.
You'll learn how to create a profile that feels genuine, tells your family's story with warmth, and gives an expectant mother the confidence to imagine her baby growing up surrounded by love.
What We Cover:
RG Adoption Consulting
Do you have an adoption "Kismet Moment" you'd like to share? Tell us the story here to be apart of my upcoming podcast episode! https://spotifycreators-web.app.link/e/BNfyVlIUm5b
Website → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com
Book a Complimentary Adoption Strategy Session → https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/contact
Are You Ready to Adopt? Take the Quiz to Find Out → https://www.rgadoptionconsulting.com/quiz
Tune in to The Adoption Roadmap Podcast every Wednesday. If you like what you hear, I'd appreciate a follow and 5-star rating & review! THANK YOU!
For questions about adoption, episode suggestions or to appear as a guest on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast, email [email protected]
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