The Business of Fashion Podcast

As major luxury brands struggle to maintain momentum amid an industry-wide slowdown, one category is bucking the trend: jewellery. While demand for handbags and apparel softens, fine jewellery sales continue to rise, driven by consumer desire for lasting value, emotional resonance and self-expression.

Simone Stern Carbone and Joan Kennedy join The Debrief to discuss how independent jewellers are thriving with creativity and personality, the rising popularity of novelty pieces, and why jewellery is uniquely positioned to attract buyers in today's luxury market.

Key Insights: 

• Despite slowing luxury sales, jewellery sales have continued to boom. As Stern Carbone notes, consumers perceive luxury jewellery as an inherently safer investment. She says, “Instinctively, a lot of people associate jewellery – especially if it's got gold, gemstones or diamonds – with something you would dish out more money for more readily than for a handbag potentially made out of nylon.”

• While big jewellery brands are growing, smaller competitors are booming as they foster deep customer relationships and maintain flexible, manageable supply chains. Stern-Carbone highlights, “Jewellery is so personal. When you have a very distinct aesthetic, you really connect with your customers long term, potentially for life. This is a really personal relationship that smaller brands can capitalise on.”

• Kennedy emphasises that modern jewellery marketing resonates by being accessible and relatable. “One designer I spoke to puts her charm necklaces next to candy necklaces, so that feels fun,” she says. “A lot of these designers are doing things that are very lo-fi. It’s like a picture of a wrist on Instagram. And then they reply to DMs, like, ‘Hey, show me that bracelet with something else.’ So the way that they present it is also really relevant to shoppers, versus the very high-gloss and traditional style of high jewellery.”

• Novelty jewellery began gaining popularity post-Covid. “People were buying camp jewellery, but they were paying $50 for a funky, colourful ring. And then more recently, people are like, okay, let’s bring in the value piece of this,” says Kennedy. Novelty jewellery has surged as consumers seek personal expression in response to uniform dressing and quiet luxury trends. Kennedy continues, “You're leaning into things that are uniform dressing, so how do we spice that up? Let's go for more novelty in jewellery.”

Additional Resources:

• Why Jewellery Feels Like a Better Deal Than a Handbag | BoF 
• Who Would Pay $20,000 For a Hamburger Ring? | BoF
• How Small Jewellery Brands Are Seizing The Moment | BoF 

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When Tracee Ellis Ross launched Pattern Beauty in 2019, she set out to challenge the beauty industry's lack of products for curly, coily and tight-textured hair. Despite numerous obstacles, including scepticism about market viability and systemic biases in the product testing process, Ross has built Pattern into a leading haircare brand addressing an underserved market.

“Black beauty and textured hair was not being mirrored back as a celebration but instead it was a problem,” Ross shared. “[Pattern] is to allow people to have the access to their most beautiful hair and self in their own bathroom as opposed to having to always trust a professional.”

During her conversation with BoF founder Imran Amed at The Business of Beauty Global Forum 2025 in Napa Valley, California, Ross shared her journey from Hollywood actress to entrepreneur, detailed the systemic changes she's driving in the haircare industry and emphasised the importance of humanity in business building. 

Key Insights: 

•  Ross described her early struggle with understanding and accepting her natural hair as a deeply personal and emotional journey. "Making sense of how my hair grew out of my head was difficult," she said. "I had to master and understand and gain a sense of love and celebration in my hair." This experience became the foundation for her brand Pattern, which aims to shift the narrative around textured hair from one of difficulty to one of pride and empowerment.

• Ross articulated how the standard beauty narrative has often required Black women to erase parts of themselves to be seen. “There’s a part of beauty and beauty culture that has been about erasing who we are in order to fit in,” she said. Through Pattern, she seeks to change that narrative by celebrating individuality and authenticity: “I want people to have their hair. They just need the right products to support their hair. That’s what doesn’t exist.”

• Pattern was not an overnight success born of celebrity privilege — it took a decade of perseverance, rejection and self-education, Ross said. “There’s this myth that I was this famous actress who had lots of money to start a company — garbage,” she said. “I’m a Black actress in Hollywood. Let’s be clear about my finances.”

• While products are at the heart of Pattern, Ross stressed that her brand is rooted in community, identity and purpose. “Pattern is about allowing people access to their most beautiful hair, their most beautiful self, in their own bathroom,” she said. “You have an opportunity to take all that wasted space not serving this customer and turn it into money, purpose, and value.”

Additional Resources:

•  The Business of Beauty Global Forum: Tracee Ellis Ross on Community and the Power of Celebrating Differences 

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Earlier this month, cities across the US saw the most significant wave of demonstrations since the 2020 protests following George Floyd's murder. These latest protests have been sparked by immigration raids conducted by the Trump administration, and while some of those enforcement actions have targeted garment workers, the fashion industry has mostly stayed silent. 

Executive editor Brian Baskin, senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young, and retail editor Cat Chen explore the reasons behind the industry's cautious stance, whether fashion can find a new way to engage with politics, and practical steps brands can take to support vulnerable workers.

Key Insights: 

• During the Black Lives Matter movement, fashion brands were quick to voice support. Today, in the face of immigration raids affecting garment workers, many brands are noticeably quiet as companies now worry that taking a stance on divisive political issues could trigger backlash. “There's a lot of anxiety and discomfort and frustration behind the scenes, but there is also this other piece of the pie, which is fear of retaliation from the Trump administration,” says Chen. Despite the fear of retribution, Butler-Young also notes how the lack of response is being interpreted outside of the industry: “I think that people see the industry as acting cowardly as an industry that does rely on immigrant labor, legal and otherwise.” 

• Fashion isn’t providing much concrete support behind the scenes, either. “I think another huge issue is that people are feeling really helpless in the sector. There aren't any resources,” says Chen. “We're not seeing trade organisations emerge and come up with guidelines for what employers can do in case of a raid.” She adds, “You have these executives who are operating very blindly.”

• Brands that lean too heavily on public declarations of diversity and inclusion without backing them up are losing credibility with values-driven shoppers. As Butler-Young explains, “The liberal consumer is just a little bit over hearing companies say something and then not do it.” Instead of splashing their values across LinkedIn or homepage banners, she notes that “some of the brands that are doing a good job by doing the work internally first and then talking about it.” 

• The focus should also shift from performative allyship to practical, on-the-ground support—ensuring that businesses are equipped to respond meaningfully when their workers are directly impacted by policies like immigration raids. As Chen points out, “The most vulnerable people right now don't need big brands to post something on social media or grand political gestures. What they need is a solution to the problem. What they need is for their employers to be prepared.” 

Additional Resources:

• Garment Workers Are at Risk. Fashion Can’t Afford to Look Away.
• Five Years After George Floyd: Can Fashion Still Stand for Something? 

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When Hailey Bieber launched her beauty and skincare brand Rhode in 2022, it quickly built a loyal customer base and achieved rapid commercial success. By early 2025, Rhode had generated $212 million in net sales and, in May, was acquired by E.l.f. Beauty in a landmark $1 billion deal.

“Rhode is not just about the product; it's the whole entire world of Rhode. I want people to feel something when they get the products. When they use it, I want them to feel that they are a part of something,” Bieber shared at The Business of Beauty Global Forum 2025. “I really do see us being a legacy brand. Rhode is going to go down as one of the greats.”

In her first public appearance since the acquisition, Bieber joins The Business of Beauty’s executive editor Priya Rao on stage at Stanly Ranch in Napa Valley, California, during The Business of Beauty Global Forum to reflect on her launching her brand, her approach to world building and her vision for the future of Rhode. 

Key Insights: 

• Rhode is intentionally positioned as more than a skincare brand. “It’s not just about the product, it’s the whole entire world of Rhode,” Bieber said. She envisions the company evolving into a lifestyle brand with editorial flair and cultural relevance beyond just beauty. "I want people to feel something when they get the products, I want them to feel that they are a part of something."

• Growing Rhode, Bieber rejected traditional beauty incubators and industry insiders in favour of building a close-knit team with a fresh perspective. “I knew I wanted to put my own money into it. I knew I always wanted to be the majority owner,” she said. The result was a brand that felt “super curated and tight” — an intentional strategy to maintain clarity and control.

• The $1 billion sale to E.l.f. Beauty was not a quick decision. Bieber was deliberate about finding a partner that respected Rhode’s DNA. “Rhode is like my baby; I'm so precious about it. The idea of ever even considering [a sale] was a very big deal to me.” Bieber underscores the importance of personal connection and integrity in building a brand that resonates. “I am Rhode and Rhode is me,” she said, explaining that the brand’s tone, aesthetic and communication all reflect her own sensibilities. “That’s why I always say, Rhode is my world. It doesn't feel like a job to me.” 

• Rhode is a long game. “I really do see us being a legacy brand,” Bieber said. “Rhode’s going to go down as one of the greats.” Her goal is to build something that endures, rooted in authenticity and longevity rather than trend-chasing. “It’s not just about the product, it’s the whole entire world of Rhode."

Additional Resources:

• The Business of Beauty Global Forum: Hailey Bieber Is Just Getting Started | BoF
• E.l.f. Beauty Acquires Hailey Bieber’s Rhode Skin for $1 Billion | BoF 

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Nike has been synonymous with sports for decades, but that cultural and commercial cachet has mostly been driven by male athletes like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods (Serena Williams being a prominent exception). As a result, despite substantial sales, Nike historically struggled to resonate authentically with women, and has at times faced pointed criticism from female athletes, employees and consumers. 

That appears to be changing. Nike’s “So Win” campaign, which launched with the brand’s first Super Bowl ad in decades, centres entirely on female athletes. A’ja Wilson’s sneaker release was a smash, and a new brand with Kim Kardashian’s Skims will be out soon. The head of Nike Women’s now leads the entire Nike brand. 

Key Insights: 

• Nike’s current momentum comes after past attempts to boost its women’s business, including a failed 2005 campaign involving catalogs and dedicated stores. Defections by prominent female athletes to rivals, and media investigations into gender equity issues prompted Nike to rethink its approach starting about five years ago. Sheena explains, "They started a think tank with women athletes and women consumers, and what they heard was that women wanted more from the company. This marked the beginning of initiatives driven by women's opinions and taking more women into leadership roles to guide efforts that would genuinely resonate with women."  

• Featuring her first signature shoe, the Nike A'One, WNBA star A’ja Wilson’s campaign was the latest and biggest in a string of successful marketing and product initiatives targeting women, including maternity lines, leak-proof activewear, and technical collaborations like supporting Kenyan runner Faith Kipyegon’s quest to break the four-minute mile. Sheena emphasises, "Nike’s investing end-to-end. They're not just investing in her wearing the logo at a race someday—they're actually supporting her personal goals."

• The recent appointment of Amy Montagne as Nike’s first female brand president symbolises substantial internal change. Sheena highlights, "Having a woman lead as Nike brand president is another way to activate that lever and get after women's." But consistency remains crucial for lasting success. Sheena stresses, “They've taken their swing before, but it's like the follow-through that counts. Consistency will be the most important thing. If they don’t keep doing all the right things, it could easily shift back.”

Additional Resources:

• Why Women’s Basketball Stars Are Finally Getting Big Sneaker Deals | BoF 
• Nike Forms New Team for Secretive Brand With Kim Kardashian | BoF 
• Is Nike Finally Winning With Women? | BoF 

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Emily grew up far away from the fashion world in Calgary, Canada. After moving to New York for a role at the media company Complex, Oberg quickly built her profile as a tastemaker in the streetwear scene. 

But eventually, she got the entrepreneurial itch and leveraged her experience to turn Sporty & Rich, which started as a mood board on Instagram, into a multi-million-dollar brand with a dedicated community following.

"I think people want to be part of anything that's aspirational. Our sweatshirts are $150, it's not like we're selling a $10,000 handbag, but I think that shirt represents the lifestyle in the world that we have built."

In conversation with BoF founder Imran Amed, Oberg reflects on her unconventional path, her strategic business choices, and the significance of creating an aspirational lifestyle through her brand.

Key Insights: 

• Sporty & Rich started as an Instagram mood board where Oberg began experimenting with different products like magazines, hats, and crewnecks to gauge interest for a brand. To scale without raising capital, Oberg turned to pre-orders. "If we didn't do pre-order, we couldn't have run a business," she says. “We did a crewneck and it made $600,000 in a day,” she says of a drop during the pandemic. “That was a big moment for us because we were like, 'Wow, we can really scale this with just one product.'”

• Oberg thrives in uncertainty and credits her ability to adapt as one key to her success. “I think I like risk because where it scares most people, it kind of excites me and it gives me that feeling of being uncomfortable – I really like that feeling,” she explains. Reflecting on her experience moving to LA and launching Sporty & Rich, she adds: “I was excited and I had a trust in myself that I would always figure it out. So I think when you have that, you know that you'll be okay and there's like nothing to really worry about.”

• Oberg is candid about her business blind spots.She surrounds herself with experts in operations, production, and finance to keep the business growing. “I don’t know how to do everything,” she says. “I just know what I like and what I want things to look like.” 

• Sporty & Rich isn’t just about clothing. Their New York flagship includes a café, spa, — and soon, a gym — offering a full expression of the brand’s values. “It's not necessarily about the monetary things and money and the rich lifestyle. That's a part of it but I think there’s this greater sense of living a full life and I think anything that's aspirational people want to be part of,” she says. “Our sweatshirts are $150; it’s not like we’re selling a $10,000 handbag, but I think that shirt represents the lifestyle and the world that we’ve built.”

Additional Resources:

• For Some Labels, Drops Are Still Working When Nothing Else Is | BoF 
• How and When Brands Should Say 'I’m Sorry’ | BoF 
• Can You Sell Sexual Wellness Without Sex? | BoF 

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Bieber, a celebrity and influential beauty figure with a strong Gen-Z following, launched Rhode just three years ago, quickly distinguishing the brand with minimalist product offerings closely tied to Bieber's personal aesthetic. She just sold to E.l.f. Beauty for $1 billion, even as rival celebrity beauty brands struggle to grow sales or attract buyers. 

Priya Rao, executive editor at The Business of Beauty at BoF, joins the Business of Fashion's Brian Baskin and Sheena Butler-Young to discuss how Rhode distinguished itself in a crowded celebrity beauty landscape, why E.l.f. Beauty saw strategic value in the acquisition, and what this landmark deal signals about the evolving beauty industry.

Key Insights: 

• Rhode’s clean, minimal brand aesthetic also mirrors e.l.f.’s broader mission, albeit at a different price point. "There’s something about Rhode’s branding that really makes sense with what E.l.f. already does. They both want to be accessible but aspirational," Rao notes. Like Rhode, "E.l.f. has always had a really good sense of what young people want," says Rao.

• The success of Rhode demonstrates that differentiated, clearly communicated value propositions continue to resonate strongly in the beauty market. "From the consumer side, this just shows that the right brand can find the right price at any time, as long as you're able to point and show you offer something different," explains Rao.

• Rao highlights how rare it is for a celebrity beauty brand to resonate beyond hype. "Most celebrity beauty brands are not succeeding at this level," she says. Rhode’s limited and focused product assortment have also contributed to its success. "She's not launching everything under the sun," says Rao. "She’s focusing on what she knows and what her audience connects with, and that’s why it’s working."

• The acquisition isn't just about short-term gain – E.l.f. sees lasting value. "This isn't a flash in the pan for them," says Rao. "They’re betting on Rhode being a long-term growth engine, not just a trendy pick-up."

Additional Resources:

• E.l.f. Beauty Acquires Hailey Bieber’s Rhode Skin for $1 Billion | BoF 

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Giancarlo Giammetti met Valentino Garavani by chance on July 31, 1960, setting in motion one of fashion’s most enduring — and most successful — creative partnerships. Together, they transformed Valentino into a global fashion powerhouse, celebrated for its elegance, craftsmanship, and cultural influence. 

In 2016, Giammetti co-founded the Fondazione Valentino Garavani e Giancarlo Giammetti to preserve their remarkable legacy, promote creativity, and foster charitable and educational initiatives.

This week in Rome, BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed had the honour of sitting down with  Mr Giammetti at PM23, the newly opened home of the foundation, located right next to the Valentino headquarters where their journey together first began. 

In this exclusive interview, Mr Giammetti reflects on the founding days of Valentino, the importance of protecting creativity  in a fashion market that prioritises commercialisation, and why it is critical for the industry to support future generations of designers who are overlooked by a fashion system under pressure.

“This continuous change of people, using people to cover jobs … it makes a big confusion. None of them really becomes a part of the legacy of the company. That’s what is a big problem today,” says Giammetti. 

Key Insights: 

• Giammetti highlights the strength of his decades-long partnership with Valentino, emphasising their deep personal and professional connection. “We grew up related so much to each other that we cannot be separate,” he says. “Even when we had some rupture in our private life, after a while, we kept our  family. That’s why we have such a big family – because all of our friends became friends of our family with us.”

• Giammetti expresses concern about the fashion industry's current state, noting the disconnect between creative integrity and business pressures. "Designers have become their own stars, they have their own style, and they don’t want to really become a witness to the work of the companies where they are hired to prolong life – they want to work for themselves," he says. "It’s not just negative, it’s offensive."

• Giammetti believes in preserving the heritage of fashion through new means. “I hate fashion museums. I think that to see all the mannequins like Madame Tussauds look really like wax things. I don’t think there is a life inside,” he says. “With digital work, you have to work with that to project your legacy in a different way.”

• Giving advice to aspiring creatives, Giammetti encourages young designers to remain true to themselves and avoid distractions. "Be yourself. Don't get distracted. You have to believe in yourself and do what you want."

Additional Resources:

• ‘Beauty Creates Beauty’: Valentino Founders Tease New Cultural Space in Rome | BoF 

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The beauty sector historically thrived during economic downturns, earning a recession-proof reputation encapsulated in the “lipstick index.” However, recent earnings from major beauty conglomerates like Estée Lauder, L'Oréal, Coty and Shiseido indicate that beauty’s resilience is being tested. Sales are declining, layoffs are coming and consumer habits appear to be shifting dramatically. 

BoF Senior Beauty Correspondent Daniela Morosini joins Brian Baskin and Sheena Butler-Young on The Debrief to examine what's driving this slowdown and how the industry is adapting.

Key Insights: 

• Traditionally, small luxury purchases like beauty products thrived during economic pressure. But the landscape has changed. “Prices have really, really grown, and there's just so much more to choose from,” says Morosini. The combination of escalating prices, excessive market saturation, and a shift to online platforms like Amazon and TikTok has diluted the impact of small luxury indulgences. "It's really hard to get seen. So even if you have a more affordable product that more people can afford, you still have to get people to come and look at you and come and interact with you," she adds.

• Brands once benefited from consistent replenishment and customer loyalty. Today, consumers are more transient, constantly seeking newness. “Customers seem to have this insatiable appetite for more products and more newness,” Morosini notes.  But after years of heavy consumption, shoppers are starting to tire of new for the sake of new. “Something that’s really starting to come into focus is that, specifically, American middle-class shoppers are starting to buy fewer beauty products – and that’s having a big knock-on effect.”

• As consumers become more price-sensitive, brands need to redefine value beyond just pricing. Morosini suggests brands return to basics, emphasising their core strengths and fostering loyalty through consistent, quality products rather than frequent launches. "People are really, really attuned to perceptions of value," says Morosini.

Additional Resources:

• The Beauty Slowdown, Explained | BoF
• The End of the Lipstick Index | BoF 

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Instead of his usual place in the host’s seat, BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed appears this week as a guest in an interview with Jonathan Wingfield, editor-in-chief of System Magazine, alongside Luca Solca, senior research analyst at Bernstein – as featured in the debut issue of System Collections.

This conversation was recorded on March 14, about two weeks before Donald Trump’s shock announcement of so-called reciprocal tariffs on countries around the world, most notably China.

Together, Amed and Solca explore major shifts in the global luxury market, the growing fatigue with high prices and mass production, and why creativity, innovation and strategic alignment between business and creative leadership are more crucial than ever.

“These companies are run by human beings, and if you don't give people incentives to change, they will kill you. If you see that you're making as much money as you like, and the business is as good as it ever was, then you probably will not change very much,” says Solca. “Adjusting to a more normal environment is causing a lot of soul-searching and getting these companies back in line.”

Amed adds: “Where brands work best is where there is that impeccable alignment between the creative leadership and the business leadership. Many creative directors feel like a lot of decision-making and creativity is being dictated to them rather than being in conversation with them."

Key Insights:

• Excessive price hikes and product ubiquity are causing consumer pushback. Amed says, "When customers look at a €10,000 bag that used to cost half of that, there's real pressure because the value proposition no longer adds up." Solca stresses, "If people need to pay these prices, they must be excited; they need to feel they haven’t seen these products yet, and that they desire them." Amed adds, "Brands need to inject new creative energy to get customers excited again."

• In a stagnant market, luxury brands can no longer rely on organic demand and must compete aggressively for market share. "In order to grow now, brands need to actively win market share from competitors," says Amed. This shift has forced operational changes. "Fashion shows are getting smaller, not just for intimacy, but also to cut costs." Solca agrees: "A lot of the costs in this industry are fixed ... When sales decline by as much as 20 percent, you really need to cut the fixed portion of your costs."

• Maintaining exclusivity remains essential. Solca notes, "The nature of the industry is that you need to sell exclusivity or perceived exclusivity." He warns high visibility can backfire: "Smaller brands hit gold, but at one point, they succumb to that very success because they become too visible and people move elsewhere. They tend to face a glass ceiling around €2 to 3 billion."

• Effective luxury strategies hinge on strong creative-business collaboration. As Amed explains, "Where brands work best is where there is that impeccable alignment between the creative leadership and the business leadership."

Additional Resources:

• System Launches New Bi-Annual ‘System Collections’ | BoF 
• Inside Luxury’s Slowdown | BoF 
• The State of Fashion: Luxury | BoF

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