The Business of Fashion Podcast

Right from the outset, Tory Burch  had a vision: to create a business where profit and purpose could go hand in hand. She was quick to take her brand global, first to Tokyo in 2009, and then on to Rome, Paris, Shanghai and beyond. 

Today, Tory Burch operates more than 350 stores around the world and across the Global South, including the Middle East, Latin America and South East Asia.

Her partner in life and business, Pierre-Yves Roussel, joined the company as CEO in 2019 after working with some of the industry’s top creatives as Chairman and CEO of the fashion group at LVMH. Together, they’ve taken a measured, intentional approach to growth, balancing global ambition with a focus on finding  local relevance.

“It seems so superficial to hear, ‘let's just transplant a Westerner into a [different] market. That's just the opposite of how we look at things,” says Burch. "Authenticity is what people are going to be looking for more and more," adds Roussel. "You don't try to please every customer in the world. You attract the people that relate to who you are and what you stand for and what you propose."

This week on The BoF Podcast, BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed in conversation with Tory and Pierre-Yves from BoF CROSSROADS in Dubai, exploring what it means to build an authentic, global brand in today’s competitive fashion marketplace.

Key Insights: 

• Burch believes purpose should drive business strategy. “From day one, my business plan was how do we have a successful business with incredible products that actually have deeper meaning and support a foundation for women entrepreneurs,” she says.

• Roussel emphasises authenticity as the key differentiator in today’s saturated fashion landscape. "People probably feel that there's too much formula around. Everyone is doing pretty much the same thing. People are really looking for authenticity."

• Operating globally requires deep local insights.  For  Burch and Roussel, global expansion isn’t about transplanting a fixed brand formula. Instead, it’s about deeply understanding and respecting local traditions. "It seems superficial to transplant a Westerner into a market – that's the opposite of how we look at things," says Burch. Roussel adds, "You don't change the essence of who you are, but you translate it into the local culture."

• Navigating uncertainty, like shifting global tariffs, requires resilience. "Grace under pressure is very important," says Burch. "You have to be calm, not overreact or overcorrect, because it’s an iterative process."

• Thoughtful growth is central to Burch and Roussel’s strategy. "I've always wanted to be the most exceptional company, not necessarily the biggest," Burch explains. Roussel adds that "it's more about being focused and really going after things we really want."

Additional Resources:

• BoF CROSSROADS 2025: How to Tap into Fashion’s Future Growth Markets
• After the ‘Toryssance’: Tory Burch’s Balancing Act | BoF
• The BoF Podcast: Tory Burch on Finding Purpose in Female Empowerment

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In early April, President Donald Trump announced an unprecedented wave of tariffs, imposing duties as high as 145 percent on imports from China. Among the rationales offered were the prospect of a US manufacturing renaissance.

The American fashion sector – heavily reliant on overseas production, particularly in China – now faces significant disruption. Some brands are adapting quickly, leveraging their domestic operations and leaning into a ‘Made in USA’ identity. Others are reevaluating their reliance on China as their primary sourcing destination. But the prospect of a mass return of garment manufacturing jobs remains a remote possibility, most economists and fashion industry experts say. 

In this episode of The Debrief, BoF correspondents Malique Morris and Marc Bain join executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to assess whether the dream of American-made fashion is any closer to reality.

Key Insights: 

• The ‘Made in USA’ dream remains out of reach due to the lack of US manufacturing infrastructure. "The infrastructure just literally isn't here," says Bain. "Even if you use US grown cotton, most of the time that cotton is shipped out of the US to be spun into yarn and woven into fabric somewhere else. These are all sorts of things that we just don't have here. It's been lost over decades and it would take decades to get it back.”

• Brands that already manufacture domestically are seeing success from marketing craftsmanship, experience and emotional value. The outdoor clothing company Filson, for example, offers walking tours around their manufacturing facility that shares a space with their Seattle headquarters. “Fashion is already an emotional purchase, and consumers do care about the story behind a brand. That's why brand marketing is so important for building the label,” says Morris. “This is another way to tap into that. It's storytelling, not nationalism.” 

• Whereas the US has a lack of infrastructure for manufacturing, China is in the exact opposite position. Small brands might have their supply chain concentrated in one geographical area and are especially vulnerable to tariff changes. “If that area happens to be China and suddenly there's this giant more than doubling of tariffs, you are in serious trouble,” says Bain.  

• Although cheap overseas clothing companies like Shein and Quince will now be subject to increased duties, consumers won’t abandon cheap fashion overnight. “Even if [middle-class shoppers] are not going to buy American-made brands that are significantly more expensive, maybe they'll go second-hand, maybe they'll vintage,” says Morris. “I think the hope here is that people will just get conditioned out of the idea that they can get $2 jeans and a $10 dress.”

Additional Resources:

• How Made-in-America Brands Turn Tariff Turmoil Into Opportunity | BoF
• Why ‘Made in America’ Is Still a Fashion Fantasy | BoF
• Unravelling the Myth of ‘Made in America’ | BoF

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Born in the suburbs of Kolkata, India Sabyasachi Mukherjee grew up immersed in the rich cultural environment in the state of West Bengal. After attending fashion school, he focused on creating his own brand with a small team and a big vision: to create Indian fashion that honours tradition while setting a new global standard. 

His first foray into the global market at  New York Fashion Week in 2006 was dismissed by some critics as  being “too ethnic”, but he remained undeterred, returning to India to build a business with power, presence, and purpose. Now he’s back in New York, creating a sensation with his first store outside India. The reception has been much warmer even if the core philosophy remains the same. 

“The clothing hasn’t changed at all. What’s changed is people’s perception – and I think nothing succeeds like success,” he says. “The only way you can succeed is to just stay strong. Because if you do not have a unique identity, you'll never be globally recognised.”

This week on The BoF Podcast, a conversation with Sabyasachi from BoF CROSSROADS which took place in Dubai, bringing together top business and creative leaders to examine opportunities for fashion, beauty and luxury brands in the Global South.

Key Insights: 

• Mukherjee’s early setbacks in New York taught him that success doesn’t come from fitting in, but rather from standing firm. "Keep holding onto your belief system because if you do not have a unique identity, you'll never be globally recognised.” His designs haven't changed over the years but perceptions have. “Once you start having authority to tell people that this is the way you want things to happen, people stand up and listen to you."
• Global brands often fail in India because they misunderstand its luxury consumer. "What they need to do is they need to have a stronger cultural connection with the country for people to understand why they should pay these kinds of prices," he says. "There's a misnomer about India that Indians buy cheap, but that's not true at all. I think Indians buy value. So if you can come and show the value of your brand to India, Indians will open up their wallets."
• Amid shifting geopolitics and US trade tariffs, Mukherjee sees an opportunity. "This  becomes a wonderful opportunity for us to say that we can together create our own dominance. Many times we think the solution  only lies in the West, not knowing how much stronger the solution is within our own ecosystem," he says. "I think a lot of people, a lot of countries, designers, markets, finance people, influencers, everybody will come together to push up the might of the Global South. It's going to happen for sure."
• Mukherjee believes cultural craftsmanship should be protected on a global scale. "While there are certain things that can be put under tariff, I think businesses which are made with craft and which are with local cultures should be exempted so that we can let them thrive and we can make the world a more richer, diverse, and a meaningful place to live in."

Additional Resources:

• BoF CROSSROADS 2025: Unpacking Fashion’s Future Markets
• Why Billionaire Industrialists Are Snapping Up India’s Fashion Brands | BoF  

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President Donald Trump announced an unprecedented wave of tariffs on April 2, imposing duties as high as 54 percent on fashion imports from key manufacturing countries, including China and Vietnam, and 20 percent on goods from the EU. These measures immediately sparked panic across global markets, ratcheting up the odds of a US recession and causing sharp stock price declines for major fashion brands such as Nike, Victoria's Secret and VF Corp. 

Sustainability correspondent Sarah Kent and luxury correspondent Simone Stern Carbone join executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to break down the tariffs’ effects on manufacturing, luxury brands, consumer behaviour and potential future shifts within the industry.

Key Insights: 

• The belief that these tariffs could quickly restore US-based fashion manufacturing is unrealistic. "It would take years of investment to build up the infrastructure and skill base within the US to replace manufacturing capacity that has been moving abroad for decades. For the apparel industry, it just does not exist on the scale that would be needed," explains Kent.

• Luxury brands, traditionally insulated by European-based production, will also face pressure. "Even for luxury brands that pride themselves for their production in countries like mostly France and Italy, they are going to be hit with some tariffs too," Stern Carbone points out.

• The tariffs introduce a complex challenge for luxury brands, requiring careful balancing of price adjustments, consumer sentiment and creativity amid ongoing economic uncertainty. "It's this mix between pricing, demand, maybe a lack of creativity, and also incentivising customers to actually purchase luxury goods," says Stern Carbone. "You don't know what [Trump] is going to do next, you don't know if this is going to stick, so are you going to spend $10,000 on a handbag - even if you can technically afford it - when you don't know what tomorrow brings?" emphasises Kent.

• The industry isn’t entirely powerless. "Brands have a voice. Brands are part of the global economy. Brands can lobby," says Kent. "They can make it known that they don't like this. If you're not raising your voice and saying, 'hey, this is really hurting big business and it's not making America great again,' then you're not even trying."

Additional Resources:

• Trump’s Tariffs Rock Fashion’s Supply Chain | BoF
• Explainer: How Trump’s Tariffs Threaten Luxury Fashion | BoF
• Op-Ed | Fashion’s Reset: What Tariffs Are Forcing Us to Finally Fix | BoF 
• Executive Memo | An Action Plan for Navigating Trump’s Tariffs

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After years of honing his craft at Savile Row, studying at Central Saint Martins, and working for Givenchy, Edun and Golden Goose, Japanese designer Satoshi Kuwata created the brand Setchu, a deeply personal response to his passion for blending Japanese and Western ideas. 

Grounded in precision tailoring and shaped by the poetic restraint of the kimono, Kuwata’s work reflects a lifelong pursuit of balance – between cultures, between past and future, and between creativity and business. 

“Once you meet the Western garment, it's free. You can do whatever you want. Some people go too crazy, but designers like Rei Kawakubo, and Yohji Yamamoto are geniuses, for understanding the flow of the fabric, understanding the shape of it but still keeping their Japaneseness,” shares Kuwata.

Kuwata joins BoF Founder and CEO Imran Amed to explore how his Japanese upbringing shaped his creative vision, how Savile Row and Saint Martins gave him the tools to execute it, and why he’s just as focused on designing a company as he is designing clothes.

Key Insights: 

• Kuwata's design identity is rooted in a lifelong tension between his Japanese heritage and Western training. Having studied Savile Row tailoring and graduated from Central Saint Martins, he continues to explore how 2D kimono principles and 3D Western garment construction can coexist in one garment and one brand. “Setchu is the journey of finding the right balance,” he says.

• Kuwata’s years at Savile Row shaped his technical fluency and deep respect for tradition. “I really loved British designers because of tailoring … because that’s the most complicated garment,” he says. Working at prestigious houses like Huntsman, he absorbed a culture of precision, etiquette and generational craftsmanship. “I was probably the last generation to feel or to experience that kind of old culture,” he reflects. That foundation now anchors his design approach, even as he pushes toward innovation.

• Kuwata wants Setchu to be a new kind of fashion company that is collaborative, thoughtful, and grounded in mutual respect. He believes in designing a workplace culture as intentionally as he designs garments. “As a leader, … I'd like to design a company as well. I'd like to design a beautiful relationship as well, he says. “If I have a good team, I don’t need to tell them to finish on time – they’ll do it even earlier.”

• Building an independent brand comes with real challenges, from financial anxiety to industry expectations, but Kuwata reframes pressure as opportunity. “Fashion is fashion. It’s not 100% that people love your collection. I don't take it as pressure. I always take it as an opportunity, and I always dream big.”

Additional Resources:

• Satoshi Kuwata | BoF 500 | The People Shaping the Global Fashion Industry 
• Satoshi Kuwata’s Setchu Wins the 2023 LVMH Prize | BoF

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Fast-fashion giant H&M recently announced its plans to deploy AI-generated "digital twins" of real-life models in marketing campaigns. While H&M argues it's proactively managing inevitable industry changes, including by working with models to compensate them for use of their AI versions, the decision has sparked significant backlash. Comments on social media and statements by industry figures highlight deep-seated anxieties around job security, creative integrity and the value of the human element in fashion. 

BoF correspondents Marc Bain and Haley Crawford discuss the potential outcomes and tensions arising from AI’s expanding role in fashion marketing.

Key Insights: 

• H&M is just the tip of the iceberg: Fashion brands are increasingly embracing AI, from fast fashion to luxury. While AI-generated imagery has quietly infiltrated lower-end markets for some time, H&M's public embrace signifies its move out into the open, and into the world of high-profile campaigns. High-end brands like Coach and Estée Lauder have started using AI for product-focused imagery, indicating a cautious yet clear shift. "Coach uses Adobe Firefly to create digital twins of its products… to scale marketing content and test designs," says Crawford, highlighting how AI is already reshaping marketing across the fashion spectrum.

• Transparency around AI use in marketing is still inconsistent, and regulations are lagging behind. "The technology is moving so rapidly, it's making its way out into the world already, and the law is trying to catch up," Bain explains. While the EU is moving toward legislating transparency in AI-generated imagery, the lack of clear rules globally adds complexity for brands and consumers alike, creating uncertainty around ethical marketing standards.

• The rise of AI-generated imagery raises concerns over the loss of the creative collaboration intrinsic to traditional fashion shoots. "What's really at risk of being lost here is that communal process of creating fashion imagery," says Bain. "Some level of creativity and humanity, in addition to all the jobs themselves, which are also hugely important, will also be lost."

• As AI image generation continues to be adopted by brands, it is creating increased competition, forcing both digital and traditional creatives to innovate further. "You can't only live in an endlessly self-referential cycle of AI image generation, even if AI is piecing different concepts together to generate newness," Crawford says. "People working on photography, art, whatever the artistic format is, will only get more creative and people are going to experiment more to stand out."

Additional Resources:

• H&M Knows Its AI Models Will Be Controversial | BoF
• The Fake Fashion Campaigns That Show AI’s Future in Marketing | BoF

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Guy Berryman grew up with an engineer's mind and a passion for making things. After studying mechanical engineering and architecture, he found global fame as the bassist of Coldplay. But his love for making things never went away. In 2020, he launched Applied Art Forms, a clothing label that draws inspiration from utilitarian design, military garments and mid-century modern aesthetics.

Now stocked in over 50 stores worldwide, including Dover Street Market, the brand is growing slowly but deliberately, with a creative process that he likens to making music. 

“The way I make things is very much like [how] we make songs, which is you throw ideas down and then you listen to it, judge it and see what it is. It’s a very sculptural process, says Berryman. “I'm not just backing someone else's brand. This is absolutely hands on, this is my baby.”

This week on the BoF Podcast, Berryman joins BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed to discuss the steep learning curve of building a fashion business, why quality and longevity matter more than hype, and how his creativity flows across creative disciplines. 

Key Insights: 

• Berryman describes himself as having "an engineer's brain," shaped by his background studying mechanical engineering and architecture. This maker's mentality underpins his meticulous, hands-on approach at Applied Art Forms – from crafting prototypes to obsessing over garment details. "I'm on the studio floor, my hands and knees cutting, sewing, gluing, stitching," he says. "This is absolutely hands on."

• Berryman designs garments with longevity in mind. "I always feel like clothes actually get better the more you wear them," he says. "I feel that way towards everything that we're doing and I like the idea that everything that people buy from us is going to be with them for a long period of time."

• Despite his passion for clothing, Berryman admits he entered the fashion industry naively. He quickly learned that building a brand from scratch requires humility and perseverance. "Nothing can prepare you for the reality of making and selling clothes. It's an incredibly brutal industry to be in," he says. "What I've come to realise is you can only survive in it if you're completely passionate about the process.”

• Working in fashion hasn’t taken away from his role in Coldplay, but rather enhanced it. "Having a creative outlet elsewhere has allowed me not to feel like I have to impose myself creatively into the band," Berryman says. He approaches clothing the same way he makes music: "You listen to it, judge it and see what it is. It’s a very sculptural process."

Additional Resources:

• Will Dover Street Market’s Big Bet on Independent Fashion Pay Off? | BoF

This episode includes a short clip from "Yellow," written by Chris Martin, Guy Berryman, Jonny Buckland, Will Champion, performed by Coldplay (© 2000, Parlophone Records).

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Pat McGrath is widely regarded as one of the most influential makeup artists of all time. Known simply as “Mother” to some in the industry, she’s been behind some of the most memorable runway beauty moments for decades. In 2015, she launched her namesake brand, Pat McGrath Labs, which quickly became a beauty phenomenon – going viral with its glittering gold pigment and reaching a $1 billion valuation just two years later.

But almost a decade on, the business tells a different story. With its valuation now a fraction of what it once was, high executive turnover, limited product accessibility, and internal challenges, the brand’s future hangs in the balance – even as McGrath's own star continues to rise with a new role as beauty director for Louis Vuitton.

The Business of Beauty editor Brennan Kilbane and executive editor Priya Rao, explore what went wrong and how the business can get back on track.

Key Insights: 

• In its early years, Pat McGrath Labs thrived as a high-concept beauty brand that translated runway artistry into consumer excitement. The first product, Gold 001, was a multipurpose pressed gold pigment that sold out within minutes and crashed the website. As Kilbane describes, the brand began as “a direct pipeline from her creative brain to the cosmetics market.” The initial success solidified McGrath’s cult status – and set high expectations for what came next.

• When Pat McGrath's 'glass skin' look went viral after the Maison Margiela couture show, it could have been a pivotal brand moment. But the product inspired by the look – and released more than a year later – failed to maintain momentum. “They tried to capitalise on it by scheduling a masterclass a week later,” says Kilbane, “but it wasn’t fast enough.” Additionally, according to Rao, the bigger issue with late deployment was product wearability: “It’s not something that’s everyday or wearable in any capacity.”

• Pat McGrath’s artistry is legendary, however operationally, Pat McGrath Labs fell flat. “Pat McGrath Labs was Pat McGrath. She is the CEO, she is the founder, she's the creative director – the buck stops with her,” says Kilbane. With final say on everything from product formulation to packaging, this all-encompassing control created a bottleneck that affected every part of the business. The result was a company where decision-making was slow and fragmented.

• With valuation plummeting and Sephora shelf space dwindling, both Kilbane and Rao agree that McGrath’s company needs a reset. “Does it need new investors? Probably,” says Rao. “But it also needs leadership and operational know-how for it to actually scale. Otherwise, it’s going to be a pet project in comparison with what she does with Louis Vuitton.” Kilbane adds, “Fixing the company culture is going to be integral – if not even more impactful than integral – to the brand’s longevity.”

Additional Resources:

• What Happened to Pat McGrath Labs? | BoF 
• Louis Vuitton to Launch Makeup Line | BoF 

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i-D magazine was founded in 1980 by Terry and Tricia Jones, pioneering a new kind of fashion storytelling that mixed street style with high fashion, always with an eye — and a wink — to the future. The magazine has had its ups and downs, and in 2023 fell victim to the bankruptcy of Vice, which had acquired i-D from its founders in 2012. 

Enter Karlie Kloss and her burgeoning media company, Bedford Media, which has plans to revitalise i-D under a new editor-in-chief, Thom Bettridge with experience at 032c, Interview, Highsnobiety, and Ssense. Now, Bettridge  is on a mission to re-establish i-D as a cultural institution for a new generation — one that values community over clicks and retention over viral attention.

“I've worked on viral covers and while they can do so much for your exposure as a small brand, at the end of the day, it's really like a sugar high. That famous person's fans are there to see the person they like. Not that many of them actually stick around,” says Bettridge. “We're moving from this attention era to a retention era, where the smarter brands are figuring out how to build a narrative people are invested in.”

Bettridge joins BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed to talk about his journey to i-D and what it takes to relaunch an iconic title for a new era.

Key Insights: 

• Moving from biannual publications like 032C to the fast-paced, blog-style environment of Highsnobiety, Bettridge learned to step back from editing every piece, focusing instead on nurturing a team that could maintain quality content at a rapid digital pace. "I had to cultivate a team that is going to do great work even when I'm not directly touching it," he says. "It was a big growth thing, learning how to be more of a coach than an editor of editors."

• At e-commerce platform Ssense, Bettridge discovered content was most successful when it offered intrinsic value, fostering long-term brand loyalty. He likens Ssense's editorial content to a great coffee shop attached to a hotel: Even if people aren’t shopping for luxury fashion every day, they could drop by for a daily dose of engaging content, building a habitual connection to the brand. "What really worked was if you just made great content, you then became part of someone's digital diet in a way that built loyalty with the brand," he explains.

• For the relaunch cover of i-D, Bettridge chose Enza Khoury, a trans woman living in the Republican state of Ohio in the US, after a casting call brought in over 800 video submissions. “We really wanted to find someone who encapsulates the present moment, and feels like a representative of our time,” Bettridge explains. In addition to her charisma, Enza’s personal story captured something bigger. “It almost felt like her life was telling a story of what it means to live today.”

• Bettridge emphasises shifting from viral celebrity-driven covers to nurturing a dedicated audience. He describes viral covers as a "sugar high," suggesting the real value lies in sustained engagement. "You can create this huge wave of eyeballs, but are these people actually going to buy what you're selling?" he asks. The goal, he says, is to transition "from an attention era to a retention era."

Additional Resources:

• i-D Magazine Appoints Thom Bettridge Editor in Chief
• Op-Ed | Go Big or Go Hyper-Niche

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Once a dominant player in fast fashion, Forever 21 recently filed for bankruptcy for the second time in six years, marking the likely end of its run as a physical retailer. The chain, known for introducing ultra-affordable, trend-driven clothing to American malls, struggled to remain relevant as competitors like Zara, H&M, and later Shein and Temu offered faster, cheaper, and more digitally-savvy alternatives. After its initial bankruptcy in 2019, Forever 21 was acquired by Authentic Brands Group and mall operator Simon Property Group, but despite various turnaround attempts – including unusual collaborations and international relaunches – it failed to recapture its former success.

Retail editor Cathaleen Chen joins The Debrief to unpack what Forever 21’s fall says about the future of fast fashion.

Key Insights: 

• Chen argues that Forever 21’s downfall is largely due to its loss of cultural cachet. “You don't see influencers peddling Forever 21 in the way that you see influencers still promoting Shein, and I think that's a huge factor. You have to spend that money to be relevant,” says Chen.

• Chen contends that fast fashion retailers like Forever 21 have always struggled with establishing a unique identity, which ultimately made it difficult for them to maintain customer loyalty. “The problem with Wet Seal, Rue 21, and now Forever 21 is that these retailers never really had any kind of identity,” she explains.

• The retailer’s failure to evolve beyond chasing transient trends has left it vulnerable to more agile competitors. “It's not about just chasing fashion, fashion, fashion the way that I think Forever 21 never got out of, the way that Shein dominates. It's about going the other direction and creating products that your customers want at a level of quality,” says Chen.

• Looking forward, success in fast fashion will require more than affordability. Chen believes future winners must combine low prices with a compelling retail experience: “There is an element of surprise and delight in that shopping experience. It can't just be cheap, affordable – it needs to offer something more.”

Additional Resources:

• The Year Ahead: Deconstructing Fast Fashion’s Future | BoF 
• Why Shein Keeps Buying Its Rivals | BoF

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