The Business of Fashion Podcast

Estée Lauder was long celebrated as a pioneer in prestige beauty, building a global empire on the strength of family legacy, innovative product lines, smart acquisitions and a high-touch in-store experience. However in recent years, the company has lost its wat on each of those strategies, leaving it poorly equipped to stay on top of rapidly shifting consumer tastes. 

In its latest earnings call, new CEO Stéphane de La Faverie candidly acknowledged that the company had “lost its agility,” and promised to quickly implement an ambitious modernisation plan. The Debrief explores how Estée Lauder’s legacy is now proving to be a burden, and how it can still overcome its challenges. 

Key Insights: 

• Holding around 86% of the voting rights, Estée Lauder’s tight family control helped maintain a tight focus on prestige beauty, but has contributed to a risk-averse culture that caused the company to miss out on important trends. “A lot of their beliefs are around beauty being a prestige category and a prestige experience and that being the way to win,” says Morosini. “That message in the wider beauty consumer base has been diluted a little bit. People are much more open to shopping for products in different ways and from different kinds of founders. They didn't really let go of their values.” 

• Estée Lauder also made a big bet on China, at one point deriving 25 percent of its sales from the market. However, when demand cooled post-COVID, it exposed weaknesses in its home market strategy. "Not only did the China business really, really sharply decline, but when the Chinese market took a really big hit, it exposed just how much they had neglected their home market of the US and just how much market share they had ceded without anyone really realising,” says Morosini.

• The company’s new CEO, Stéphane de La Faverie, is spearheading a major strategic overhaul with his "Beauty Reimagined" plan. This vision aims to reinvigorate the brand by streamlining the corporate structure, tripling the pace of innovation, and placing an obsessive focus on the consumer. "They've created more of a skincare brand cluster, a makeup brand cluster, and they've also really simplified the geographic way that they're dividing up the markets and who's overseeing them. I think that could lead to greater agility and better sort of more targeted marketing for each region," says Morosini.

• Estée Lauder’s model of fuelling growth through brand acquisitions is increasingly unsustainable in today’s volatile market. The company's ability to innovate and adapt has been hampered by heightened domestic competition and an unpredictable economic climate. "I think as time has gone on, it's just got harder and harder because the competition, especially in the US in their domestic market has really, really ramped up. And they don't seem able to accurately forecast what's gonna happen next,” says Morosini. “It's really hard to convince people that something that's been around for a long time is actually cool."

Additional Resources:

• Estée Lauder Knows How to Cut Costs. Can It Also Rebuild Growth? 
• A First-Day Agenda for Estée Lauder’s New CEO

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“Will India be the next China?” is a question that’s circulated throughout the fashion industry for years. Even as its population and economy both surge, India’s cultural tapestry and fragmented retail landscape set it apart from its northern neighbour.

At BoF VOICES 2024, Ravi Thakran drew on his experiences pioneering luxury growth for Swatch in 1990s China and leadership of LVMH in Asia to share his unique insights on the many differences between the world’s two most populous countries, and why European luxury brands have not yet managed to really crack the Indian market.

“India is now across China and growing faster. But when it comes to the luxury market — talk of any brand, be it Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Louis Vuitton, Cartier — India is less than 1%,” says Thakran. “India's stupendous growth is right in front of us, but the bulk of that growth is led by a very young population with a very low per capita income. So if you are an aspirational player, go to India today. This will be your biggest play going forward. In luxury, you still have to work.”

Thakran unpacks the dynamics of economic growth in India, explains why its path won’t mirror China’s, and shares insights on how to succeed in one of the world’s most complex yet promising markets.

Key Insights: 

• From garments to accessories, Asia has scaled production to supply most of the global market. Simultaneously, it’s also the top consumer region for many categories, making Asia pivotal in both supply and demand equations. Despite this, its share of value in these categories remains low: “Asia is now the largest market of the world and across [garments, accessories and watches], more than 50%. … How come its share of value in these categories is so low?” queries Thakran. “Value resides in brands. And where do these brands live? The brands today for these categories are still in Europe and the USA.” 

• While India’s market is huge, it is fragmented and complex. Challenges for fashion brands include high import duties, limited retail infrastructure and a deeply rooted tradition of local attire. Western brands need to adapt to India’s cultural context if they hope to gain traction. “LVMH is not a luxury enough for India. … Indian luxury will always remain very Indian. Unless you Indianise, you're unlikely to crack that market,” says Thakran. 

• Drawing on teachings from Buddah and Gandhi, Ravi underscores that Asia’s rising wealth need not translate into mindless consumption. Gandhi’s simple lifestyle and the Buddha’s teachings on desires offer a philosophical counterbalance that resonates in today’s sustainability-conscious world. “While we are trying to make India adapt to the West, I think there is a message for the West to adopt from India," says Thakran.

Additional Resources:

• BoF VOICES 2024: Fashion’s Next Moves 
• Where Fashion Is Finding Growth in Asia as China Stalls | BoF 
• Luxury’s China Priorities in the Year of the Snake | BoF

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After a prolonged slowdown, fashion’s M&A market is springing back to life. A combination of falling interest rates, shifting investor sentiment and optimism around economic policy has fuelled a wave of early 2025 deals. Within the first few weeks of the year, brands like True Religion and Kapital were acquired by private equity firms and holding companies, signalling renewed confidence in fashion investments.

However, not all acquisitions are about aggressive growth. Some buyers specialise in “managed decline,” acquiring struggling brands to extend their lifespan through licensing or cost-cutting. Others, including private equity firms and strategic buyers, see opportunities to scale promising brands by injecting capital and expertise.

“The key for a lot of these companies in finding buyers is proving that their brands are still worth it and can weather these economic cycles and lulls in the market,” shared e-commerce correspondent Malique Morris. 

Executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young sat down with Morris to break down the latest deals, the brands poised for sale, and what it all means for fashion in 2025 and beyond.

Key Insights: 

• A number of converging factors are driving a new wave of fashion mergers and acquisitions in 2025. Falling interest rates, Trump’s re-election driving investor optimism, and shifting regulations have all played a part in fuelling new acquisitions. “Retailers reported strong holiday sales in 2024, and even though much of that was driven by discounting, it signalled that consumers were still spending,” says Morris. “That kind of activity gives investors more confidence in backing fashion businesses.”

• Buyers are looking for brands with strong customer loyalty, an engaged audience, and clear growth potential that can weather the ebb and flow of the market. Brands need “good stewards to help them find the best resources to expand without hurting their legacy, whether that be money, retail networks, or supplier relationships,” explains Morris. “It's important to have the resources you need to maintain relevance and compete for consumer attention.”

• Beauty remains a hotbed for M&A activity. “Unlike fashion, beauty hasn’t faced the same investor hesitancy,” says Morris. “Brands like Merit, Westman Atelier, and Makeup by Mario are seen as prime acquisition targets, while Rare Beauty could be the defining beauty deal of the decade.”

• Overall, buyers are prioritising brands with strong customer loyalty and cultural relevance. “They're seeking brands with ample customer loyalty and a passionate consumer base that will keep their names in the public consciousness, irrespective of what recent sales growth will look like,” says Morris. He adds, “The thing that is top of mind is, what is the value of your brand? That’s an honest conversation that I’m not sure all companies have with themselves, let alone with buyers.”

Additional Resources:

• What’s Behind the 2025 M&A Wave | BoF 
• Fashion’s Most Anticipated M&A Hot Spots in 2025 | BoF

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In a special episode, BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed joins Bob Safian on The Rapid Response podcast.

“This is probably the most severe crisis that I've seen in the luxury side of the fashion industry since the Great Recession of 2008,” says Amed. “The business model and approach that the luxury industry has been using for the last decade or so is running out of steam.”

In their conversation, Amed and Safian discuss the cracks in the current luxury formula,  the untapped potential in older demographics, and how brand and product innovation have the potential to revive the sector. 

Key Insights: 

• Amed warns that the go-to strategies for luxury brands, such as over-expansion and relentless price hikes, are no longer sustainable. He highlights how the slowdown in Chinese consumer spending and a sharp drop in aspirational buyers who “gorged on luxury products during the pandemic” are exposing the cracks in this long-established playbook.

• While the industry has long speculated on whether India might be ‘the next China,’ Amed believes real growth is finally within reach. Thanks to a flourishing middle class, improved retail infrastructure and widespread mobile internet, international brands are eyeing India’s vast consumer base with renewed interest. However, success demands culturally informed approaches: “The smart brands are going to really find the right talent, Indian local talent, and empower those leaders,” says Amed. “The Indian market is on the precipice of something really big but it’s not going to be easy.”

• Amed acknowledges the widespread but often discreet adoption of artificial intelligence: “I think as with a lot of things AI, everybody’s using it, but not everyone’s talking about how they’re using it,” he said. However, he cautions that “to create something really, genuinely novel, interesting, disruptive, creative, and beautiful, a human has to be involved,” reminding brands that while AI can accelerate ideation, authentic creative vision remains the domain of designers themselves.

• Amed believes the current turbulence will drive fashion leaders to rethink their strategies: “What’s exciting about a time like this is it forces companies to innovate because the market isn’t growing super fast anymore,” he said. He explains that to thrive under tougher conditions, businesses “have to take market share from someone else,” meaning it is no longer enough to repackage old ideas. Pointing to brands like Miu Miu and Brunello Cucinelli, which are still achieving significant growth, Amed sees promise in those who offer “something different and special,” rather than relying on the template approach that has dominated fashion in recent years.

Additional Resources:

• The State of Fashion: Luxury | BoF
• Luxury Slowdown Could Last Longer Than Previous Crises, Chanel Watches and Jewellery President Warns
• The BoF Podcast | The Great Luxury E-Commerce Reckoning 

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The fashion workplace is evolving, shaped by a wave of technological advancements, leadership changes, and cultural dynamics. For many employees, adapting to these changes has become a challenge, while employers must navigate how to foster connection, retain talent, and drive innovation.

Executive editor Brian Baskin sits with commercial features editorial director Sophie Soar and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to unpack how businesses can create thriving workplaces in 2025, the role of soft skills in a tech-driven era, and what it takes to re-engage an increasingly disconnected workforce.

“In the face of AI and more technology coming in, it is more important to have a human element. What does a human do well? That’s why soft skills are a huge focus,” says Butler-Young. Meanwhile, Soar highlights the growing challenges of employee disengagement, stating, “We are incredibly disengaged as a workforce. Trying to get employees to buy back into what they’re doing and be part of the workplace is going to be really challenging.”

Key Insights:

• The turnover of leadership in fashion is reshaping workplace dynamics. “New leadership means change, even if they're using the same playbook,” explains Butler-Young. “Having someone new at the top of your company tends to affect morale for better or worse, or just makes people feel uncertain.” She adds, “Fashion workplaces are in this perpetual transition this year, which will inevitably shape culture.”

• In the wake of President Donald Trump’s executive orders targeting corporate DEI programmes, successful DEI strategies in 2025 will integrate horizontally across all business functions, rather than thinking about it as a vertical. “If something is horizontally integrated across the business and is a fundamental aspect of every single core pillar that this business touches upon, it's harder to roll back on those initiatives as a result,” says Soar. Butler-Young adds, “If you as a leader of any kind of organisation appear to flip-flop on your values based on the way the political winds blow, I think that's going to have a harmful effect on your workplace in the long term.”

• As AI becomes more prevalent, employers are placing greater emphasis on human-centric skills. “In the face of AI and more technology coming in, it is more important to have a human element to it. What does a human do really well? That’s why soft skills are a huge focus,” says Butler-Young. Soar adds, “It’s about engaging a workforce who are constantly striving to think about how they can take this particular tool or opportunity to the next stage and do so with that can-do, positive approach and attitude.”

• The impact of the attention economy has spread into our work lives. “We are incredibly disengaged as a workforce,” says Soar. “Trying to get employees to buy back into what it is that they're doing and be a part of the workplace is going to be really challenging, especially as they're navigating a hybrid or remote working environment.” Employers, Soar argues, need to address this to optimise their workforce for the future: “It is fundamentally changing the way that we are operating as people as well as employees.”

Additional Resources:

• How to Future-Proof Your Fashion Career in 2025
• From Trump to Gen-Z, Fashion Faces a Culture Quake
• BoF Careers

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Tim Gunn is best known as the wise, empathetic mentor on television’s Project Runway, but before he found himself guiding the next generation of designers on screen, he spent time teaching and shaping the fashion curriculum at Parsons, where he helped nurture some of the most influential names in American fashion. His journey began in Washington, D.C., where early struggles with bullying and a desire to understand his own creativity led him toward mentoring and educating others.

Now, as the industry grapples with change on multiple fronts, Gunn offers his unique perspective on what it really takes to succeed today — in life and in fashion.  

“Life is a huge collaboration. We need other people. We’re not intended to be solos. And no one should think, ‘I can deal with this and solve this myself,’” says Gunn.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Gunn opens up about how his early trials shaped his remarkable career, why he left his art practice behind to focus on teaching and mentorship, and how he sees the future of American fashion.

Key Insights: 

• A graduate of the Corcoran College of Art and Design, Gunn once dreamed of being a painter or sculptor, but after just a few years in the classroom, he realised guiding students gave him more satisfaction than making his own work. “After two years of teaching, I thought, ‘I feel so fulfilled and so sated through the teaching process, I don’t need to make the work,’” Gunn says . “This is what I love doing and I’m just going to keep doing it.”

• During his tenure at Parsons, Gunn served as both a teacher and an administrator — eventually rising to Associate Dean — and was tasked with revitalising the school’s struggling fashion program. “The curriculum had not changed since 1952,” he recalls. “No computers, no fashion history... I was completely and totally horrified.” Determined to better prepare students for the realities of the industry, Gunn helped introduce new business training, creative independence, and a broader perspective on design. “The former curriculum was all about being totally and wholly dependent upon the faculty. You couldn’t do anything without faculty approval. And I thought, ‘These students are incredibly talented and bright. We need to let them fly and see where it takes them.’”

• The producers of Project Runway learned about Tim Gunn from industry insiders who pointed to his transformational work at Parsons. Gunn initially resisted the idea of reality TV, but curiosity won out, and his background as an educator shaped his signature style of mentorship on the show. 

• Gunn believes emerging designers need more real-world business training, collaboration partners and a firm grasp of their own creative DNA to survive. “If you insist upon making every garment yourself, just be resigned to having a little boutique and not making any money. If you really want something big, you’re gonna have to let go and you’re gonna have to collaborate with a lot of people,” Gunn advises. “Any one of us, either individually or collectively, can only be as successful as our ambitions and our resources allow us to be.”

Additional Resources:

• Television's Power to Launch Fashion Brands Remains Unproven | BoF
• How Independent Brands Can Thrive in a Fashion World Ruled by Giants 

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Brand collaborations were once rare, highly anticipated events that generated significant buzz. But as they have become more frequent, the challenge lies in creating partnerships that genuinely resonate with consumers and cut through the noise.

This week, executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young sit down with BoF correspondent Lei Takanashi and editorial fellow Julia Lebossé to explore the state of brand collaborations, what makes them succeed or fail, and where they’re headed next.

To work, collaborations need to feel authentic. For brands, “letting their collaborators take the wheel and just do what they want to do is really key,” says Takanashi. “When brands collaborate successfully, it’s often because they give creative freedom to the collaborator, allowing them to use the materials they want and tell a story that feels true to their audience,” adds Lebossé.

Key Insights: 

• Poorly thought-out collaborations often fail to connect with audiences and just won’t cut it anymore. “When it's done lazily, consumers can tell”, explains Lebossé. “We're becoming much smarter, really looking into brands and what they're doing and what makes sense. … That's why brands really have to step up in terms of what they're doing.”

• It’s not just big brands that can make waves with collaborations. Lebossé pointed to a sneaker collaboration between Bimma Williams and Saucony as an example where a smaller brand excelled. “They’re showing that, hey, we can do innovation,” explains Lebossé.

• Brands are finding even greater value in creating physical experiences around collaborations. Takanashi points to the Corteiz x Nike collaboration, where prospective buyers participated in scavenger hunts to buy the shoes. “If someone told me that kids would be lining up to buy Huaraches in 2025, I would not believe them at all,” he says. “But that’s the thing. This brand got kids waiting for hours in the freezing cold to buy their sneakers. It’s really that IRL experience that consumers are looking for when it comes to releases these days.”

Additional Resources:

• Why Fashion Needs the Art World More Than Ever | BoF
• Why Are Sneaker Collaborations So Boring?

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In today’s fashion landscape, many of us find ourselves caught in an infinite scroll of influencers. But in 2024, one couple captured the internet’s attention like no other: Lucky Blue Smith and Nara Smith.

From making cereal from scratch to becoming one of fashion’s most sought-after duos, their rise has sparked both praise and criticism. For millions of people following online, their content offers a glimpse of domestic bliss and authenticity; for others, it raises eyebrows, stoking wild conspiracy theories. As a result, the young couple has found themselves in the glare of the social media spotlight.

And as the Smiths revealed at BoF VOICES 2024, they’ve come to learn that not everyone will understand who they really are. 

“It’s the internet. You can’t believe everything you hear and see,” Lucky says. “People really see through all the fakeness. And if you're really authentic, then that's really compelling to a lot of people,” adds Nara. 

Key Insights: 

• Lucky Blue Smith rose to fame at an extraordinarily young age. At 16, he became the male model of the moment with covers of major magazines and appearances on runways around the world. Reflecting on the challenges of early fame, he shares, “When you go through a big viral moment and you’re all over social media, you can kind of become, in a way, self-conscious … But meeting [Nara], it was like I felt like I could be my true self for the first time in a while in front of someone.” For Lucky, learning to navigate online scrutiny has been crucial. “It’s the internet. You can’t believe everything you hear and see … You just have to try to focus on the positive and move forward.”

• Nara Smith underscores the importance of authenticity in connecting with her audience. “As long as you’re authentic to yourself and you’re living your best life and not being fake, that’s kind of how you can get to a point where you might be a really successful influencer,” she says. “People really see through all the fakeness.” As an influencer, she said she credits honesty and transparency as key to her success in the creator economy.

• Despite the perfect-looking presentation in her videos, Nara Smith shares the often unseen effort and dedication required to succeed in the creator economy, challenging assumptions that content creation is easy or low-effort. “What you’re seeing on the screen is a minute and 30 seconds. But I’m in my kitchen seven hours a day cooking and then putting my kids to bed and then editing for another two hours. And that’s every single day. I don’t take days off,” she reveals. 

• Reflecting on the evolving nature of personal growth and success, Lucky Blue Smith believes that living your best life is an ever-evolving journey. "I don’t think you’re ever going to land somewhere and say, ‘Yes, this is my best life.’ You always want to level up and move forward and challenge yourself,” he shares. His perspective highlights the importance of continuous growth and self-improvement, even amidst the pressures of fame and notoriety.

Additional Resources:

• BoF VOICES 2024: The Power of Purpose 
• BoF VOICES 2024 Concludes With Gala Celebration

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Public relations in fashion has transformed drastically from securing magazine features to managing 360-degree brand storytelling. PR agencies now navigate everything from influencer partnerships to event management, social media strategies, and beyond. However, choosing the right PR agency is no small feat, especially for smaller brands or those at critical growth stages.

“Having a PR agency that really feels like a genuine organic extension of your team … is what's going to enable you to plan together and collaboratively work on goals that you're super aligned on,” shared marketing correspondent Haley Crawford. 

Executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young sit down with Crawford to discuss how brands can evaluate potential PR partners, the challenges and opportunities in the modern PR space, and how to ensure a successful collaboration.

Key Insights: 

• The PR industry has evolved significantly. In the past, PR agencies focused on securing mentions in traditional editorial formats, with the ultimate goal being a feature in Vogue or Harper’s Bazaar. Today, their capabilities have expanded. As Crawford explains, “this allows them to represent brands across the full spectrum of physical and digital spaces where shoppers are really interfacing with them and discovering them. … The agency's role is to facilitate telling a cohesive story across all these facets.”

• Building relationships remains central to PR success. “The ability to build and maintain relationships has always been such a central skill in PR, but it looks totally different today than it did a couple of years ago,” says Crawford. “Today, publicists really have to go above and beyond to use those relationship building skills to build communities around the brand. And I think what really helps is being passionate about the brands that you choose to work with as well.”

• As artificial intelligence increasingly influences brand strategies, PR agencies must adopt innovative, human-centric approaches to distinguish themselves. This involves “facilitating an unexpected partnership … bringing events to life that really bring consumers that much closer to the brands they love” and helping brands “ to get in front of new audiences that might be unexpected.”

• When you're meeting with a potential PR partner, Crawford advises to think of it as a job interview. “Could you see them being part of your in-house team? Are they clearly passionate about developing your brand story and taking it to the next level?” 

Additional Resources:

• How to Choose a PR Agency | BoF
• What Fashion PR & Communications Professionals Need to Know Today | BoF

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Bethann is a former model, agent, and advocate who has been agitating for a more inclusive fashion industry for more than half a century.

Bethann launched her own modelling agency in 1984, pushing for representation and equal pay for Black and ethnic minority models. Meanwhile In her personal life, she was a working mom, and a woman that in her own words, “has no sense of retirement in her DNA.”

"When I say racial diversity, I mean I want to still see a redhead. I don’t want an all-Black anything,” Hardison says. “I want to make sure our world remains completely integrated. That’s the most important thing.”

This week on the BoF Podcast, we revisit conversation from BoF VOICES 2024 where Bethann spoke with London-based British-Jamaican designer Bianca Saunders about her inspiring career journey and the state of the fashion industry today. 

Key Insights: 

• Hardison’s approach to diversity in the fashion industry was intentional from the start By strategically building an agency that mirrored the diversity of the world around her, Hardison disrupted the norms of a predominantly white industry. “I didn’t want to have a Black model agency,” she says. “I think it's very important when you have to compete, you have to compete against the people who are running it.” Her decision to compete directly with white agencies allowed her to challenge systemic biases from within, making representation a matter of strategy, not tokenism.

• For much of her career, Hardison worked tirelessly without stopping to reflect on her impact: “When people come up to me and say, ‘Thank you so much. I love you. You’re such an icon,’ … When you’re doing the work, you don’t think of it as significant. You just want to get things done.” This humility is paired with a newfound appreciation for her legacy, which she gained while working on the documentary Invisible Beauty. “When I decided to make the film about me and let the story be told, I finally realised the significance of what I’ve done.” 

• Hardison’s vision of diversity extends beyond racial representation. She tells BoF she advocates for a truly inclusive world and challenges the concept of homogeneity in all forms to ensure that diversity remains expansive and reflective of the world’s richness. “The most important thing to me is to make sure our world remains completely integrated,” she says. “I don’t want an all-Black anything; I want to see redheads, I want to see diversity everywhere.”  

Additional Resources:

• BoF VOICES 2024: The Power of Purpose
• Op-Ed | Agencies Are Holding Back Models of Colour | BoF
• The BoF Podcast: Bethann Hardison, Kerby Jean-Raymond, LaQuan Smith and Patrick Robinson: ‘We’ve Had Diversity, but Then It Disappeared’

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