The Education Gadfly Show

Ashley Jochim, principal at the Center on Reinventing Public Education and mom of four, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith on the Education Gadfly Show to continue our debate on private school choice and regulation. She also discusses how Democrats’ defense of public schools often clashes with families’ real experiences, and why clear, consumer-facing information is essential to making choice work. 

On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner highlights a new NBER study from Chicago showing that giving principals more autonomy can boost student achievement— though effects vary widely depending on leadership capacity.

Recommended content 

• Unfettered Choice Has Not Delivered on Promises to Milwaukee Families —Ashley Jochim, Education Next
• Innovation, regulation, and school choice, with Mike McShane | Episode 984 of The Education Gadfly Show 
• Overregulated charter schools: Fact or fiction? —Michael J. Petrilli
• The mixed blessing of new school measures—Chester E. Finn, Jr.
• When decentralization works: Leadership, local Needs, and student achievement—C. Kirabo Jackson, NBER (2025)

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for our show? Send them to [email protected]

Mike McShane, Director of National Research for EdChoice, joins us on the Education Gadfly Show to debate tradeoffs when it comes to regulation and innovation in the charter school and private school choice sectors.

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares a report from the Urban Institute looking at college and career indicators and how they relate to research on post-high school outcomes. 

Recommended content: 

On school choice:

Overregulated charter schools: Fact or fiction? —Michael J. Petrilli

School choice should take the road less traveled —Robert Enlow and Michael Q. McShane, Education Next 

Charter school regulation means keeping the destination in sight —Thibaut Delloue

From the Research Minute:

Which college and career readiness standards best align with positive outcomes after high school? —Kristin Blagg, The Urban Institute (July 2025) 

The vibes for career-tech programs are great. But they’re too rare. —Michael J. Petrilli

--

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for our show? Send them to [email protected]

ERS president and managing partner Jonathan Travers joins Mike Petrilli on The Education Gadfly Show to talk about school district budgeting during uncertain times.

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares a new report from the National Council on Teacher Quality looking at district policies on pay bumps for teachers with master’s degrees, and how the money could be better spent.

Recommended content:

• The degree dilemma: School districts spend millions on ineffective master’s degree premiums —Katherine Bowser, National Council on Teacher Quality (August 2025)Close bad schools and expand good ones —Chad Aldeman
• When—and why—legislated school finance reforms don’t increase state education spending —Amber Northern and Jeff Murray
• An in-depth look at how Texas makes teacher merit pay work —Jessica Poiner
• The ESSER hangover is here —Marguerite Roza

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for our show? Send them to [email protected]

On this week’s solo episode, Mike shares his thoughts on whether it’s ever okay to let schools opt out of state standardized tests and use nationally normed assessments instead. 

Then, on a special Research Minute, Fordham’s own Adam Tyner and David Griffith share results from their brand new report about the pressure on teachers to give higher grades in the name of equity. 

Recommended content: 

Welcome to Lake Wobegon, Oklahoma —Michael J. Petrilli, Thomas B. Fordham Institute

When private schools take public dollars: What's the place of accountability in school voucher programs? — Michael J. Petrilli, Chester E. Finn, Jr., Christina Hentges, and Amber M. Northern for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute (2009)

Evaluating the content and quality of next generation assessments —Nancy Doorey and Morgan Polikoff for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute (2016)

--

“Equitable” grading through the eyes of teachers —David Griffith and Adam Tyner for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute (2025)

Grade inflation: Why it matters and how to stop it —Adam Tyner, Thomas B. Fordham Institute

--

Don’t forget to sign up for a special webinar on equitable grading practices hosted by Jessica Grose of the New York Times on Wednesday, September 10 from 12-1 pm ET:

Does "equitable" grading lower expectations for students?

--

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to Alicia Anderson at [email protected].  

This week, Matthew Kraft, professor of education and economics at Brown University, joins The Education Gadfly Show to discuss the intersection of education policy and climate change.

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam Tyner examines whether an elite “exam school” led to better educational outcomes for its students.

Recommended content: 

On education and climate change

• Education and climate change: Synthesizing the evidence to guide future research —Matthew Kraft, Sohil Malik, and Grace Falken, Anneberg Institute EdWorkingPaper (2025)
• Does spending on school facilities raise student test scores? —Amber M. Northern, Ph.D., Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• How school HVAC systems affect learning —Ali Schalop, Thomas B. Fordham Institute

The Research Minute

• Optimal school system and curriculum design: Theory and evidence —Glenn Ellison & Parag A. Pathak, National Bureau of Economic Research (2025)
• Threading the needle on selective enrollment public schools —Michael J. Petrilli, Thomas B. Fordham Institute

Feedback welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to Alicia Anderson at [email protected].  

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Ben Austin, Founding Director of Education Civil Rights Now, joins us to discuss why the Democratic Party lost its way on education policy—and what it must do to rebuild credibility and improve its chances in national elections.

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam shares a new study on state takeovers of school districts, examining who benefits and how these interventions impact district finances.

Recommended content: 

• “Democrats have lost their way on education policy. Here’s how to get back on track.” —Ben Austin, The Hill
• “Democrats need to break up with Randi Weingarten” —Ben Austin, The Hill
• “Trump’s school choice initiative puts Democratic governors in a bind” —Michael J. Petrilli, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• “Help wanted: Ed-reform governors needed (again)” —Chester E. Finn, Jr., Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• “How state takeovers of school districts affect education finance, 1990 to 2019”—Melissa Arnold Lyon,  Joshua Bleiberg, and Beth Schueler, Education Finance and Policy (2025)

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Alicia Anderson at [email protected].  

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Vlad Kogan—professor and director of undergraduate studies at The Ohio State University—joins us to discuss his forthcoming book, No Adult Left Behind: How Politics Hijacks Education Policy and Hurts Kids (out August 21).

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam highlights new findings from the National Bureau of Economic Research on the long-term benefits of participation in scholastic sports.

Recommended content:

• “No Adult Left Behind: How Politics Hijacks Education Policy and Hurts Kids” —Vladimir Kogan
• “When School Board Elections Lose Their Voice” —Anna J. Egalite, Education Next
• “The Benefits of Scholastic Athletics” — James J. Heckman, Colleen P. Loughlin, and Haihan Tian, NBER (July 2025)

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Mike returns for another solo episode, reflecting on the role of regulation in school choice—is it stifling innovation or saving us from bad schools?

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam covers a study looking at the relationship between timed math testing and anxiety among fourth- and fifth-grade students.

Recommended content:

• “Democrats’ School Choice Dilemma” —Michael J. Petrilli, for the Wall Street Journal
• “Seizing educational dynamism” —Stéphane Lavertu and Tim Rosenberger, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• “School Choice Should Take the Road Less Traveled” —Robert Enlow and Michael Q. McShane, Education Next
• “Of School Choice, Regulation, and the Real Road-Least Traveled” —Jed Wallace, CharterFolk
• “It’s One Small, Ugly School Choice Expansion” —Michael Q. McShane, for the Wall Street Journal
• “Math anxiety in elementary students: Examining the role of timing and task complexity” —Kathrin E. Maki, Anne F. Zaslofsky, Robin Codding, and Breanne Woods, ScienceDirect (2024)

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Brian Jodice, National Press Secretary for the American Federation for Children joins us for a lively debate on the federal school choice provision embedded in the newly enacted “One Big Beautiful Bill”—including its potential impact in blue states.

Then, on the Research Minute, Adam reviews a new Education Next study showing that a low-cost college-planning course can boost success for high-achieving, low-income students.

Recommended content: 

• “Democrats’ School Choice Dilemma” —Michael J. Petrilli, for The Wall Street Journal
• “Federal school choice skeptics are tilting at windmills” —Shaka Mitchell, for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• “College Counseling in the Classroom” —Joshua Hyman, Education Next
• “#974: The Risks of the Educational Choice for Children Act, with Jon Valant” —Education Gadfly Show, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• Education Gadfly Show #974: The Risks of the Educational Choice for Children Act, with Jon Valant
• Education Gadfly Show #963: All about the Educational Choice for Children Act, with Jim Blew 

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].  

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Doug Harris, director of the National Center for Research on Education Access and Choice (REACH), joins us to discuss a new website aimed at advancing evidence-based education policy and supporting more effective decision-making in schools.

Then, on the Research Minute, Meredith Coffey examines new data from Massachusetts that reveal lasting post-pandemic shifts in school enrollment, particularly in the middle grades and in higher-income districts.

Recommended content: 

• “AEFP Live Handbook of Education Policy Research” —Association for Education Finance & Policy (AEFP)
• “School Enrollment Shifts Five Years After the Pandemic” —Abigail Francis and Joshua Goodman, EdWorkingPapers (June 2025)
• “Analyzing homeschooling demographics and families’ definitions of student success” —Jeff Murray, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• “Fixing IES” —Chester E. Finn, Jr., Thomas B. Fordham Institute

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].