I caught up with my guest today, Pascal Lamy, on the sidelines of the World Trade Organization's Public Forum. Pascal Lamy is a former Director-General of the WTO and the current Vice Chair of the Paris Peace Forum. He has a reputation as a big thinker, particularly on geopolitical matters.

In our conversation, we discussed some of the contours of the deepening rivalry between China and the United States on trade issues. There is an emerging trend in the geopolitics of "decoupling," which is the idea that the world may be split into two trading blocs: one led by China and the other by the United States. I kick off by asking Pascal Lamy if he believes that decoupling is inevitable at this point. We then discuss the roots, causes, and impacts of trade rivalries between the US and China, as well as the role of the European Union and how the rest of the world — that is, countries outside the US, China, and Europe — can influence debates around international trade.