Sean Illing is joined by John Gray, political philosopher and author of the new book, The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism. They discuss Thomas Hobbes and the origins of liberalism, the current state of democracy, and the very uncertain future of the global liberal order.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: John Gray, author and political philosopher

References: 

The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism by John Gray (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes (1651)

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Sean Illing speaks with Robert Sapolsky, a professor of biology and neurology at Stanford University and the author of a new book called Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will. They discuss the concept of free will, whether it actually exists in the way we think it does, and what it means for society if free will is indeed an illusion.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Robert Sapolsky, author, Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will

References: 

Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert M. Sapolsky (Penguin Random House, 2023)

Behave by Robert M. Sapolsky (Penguin Random House, 2018)

“Robert Sapolsky Doesn’t Believe in Free Will. (But Feel Free to Disagree.)” by Hope Reese (New York Times, October 2023)

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Zack Beauchamp, a Vox senior correspondent who writes about democracy and Israel, speaks with Shadi Hamid, a columnist at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. They discuss the October 7 attack, the subsequent war in Gaza, what it means for Israelis and Palestinians, and how Jews and Muslims in the United States can find common ground amidst their communities’ grief.

This conversation was recorded on November 2, 2023.

Host:  Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent at Vox 

Guest: Shadi Hamid, (@shadihamid), columnist and Editorial Board member at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. 

References: 

“Reducing Hamas’s terrorism to a problem of ‘evil’ is a mistake” by Shadi Hamid (The Washington Post, Oct. 2023)

The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea by Shadi Hamid (Oxford University Press, 2022)

“Everything you need to know about Israel-Palestine: A comprehensive guide to the basics of the world’s most controversial conflict” by Zack Beauchamp (Vox)

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Engineer: Rob Byers

Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing is joined by Matt Gutman, the chief national correspondent for ABC News, to talk about his new book, No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks. They discuss their personal experiences with panic, the evolutionary roots of it, and how Matt has gained control over his feelings of panic and anxiety.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matt Gutman (@mattgutmanABC), author, No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks.

References: 

No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks by Matt Gutman (Penguin Random House, 2023)

“The brutal mirror: What the psychedelic drug ayahuasca showed me about my life” by Sean Illing (Vox, February 2018)

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Guest host Alissa Wilkinson speaks with Walt Hickey about his new book, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything. They discuss how entertainment affects the physical and mental states of viewers — from blood coagulation during horror movie screenings to an increase in Dalmatian adoptions after 101 Dalmatians was released in theaters — and why our responses to what we watch are worth celebrating.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), senior culture writer, Vox

Guest: Walt Hickey, (@walterhickey) author, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything

References: 

You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything by Walt Hickey (Workman Publishing Company, 2023)

“How to Use Math to Crush Your Friends at Monopoly Like You've Never Done Before” by Walt Hickey (Business Insider, Jun. 2013)

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Sean Illing speaks with one of his heroes: Werner Herzog. Herzog is a filmmaker, poet, and author of the new memoir Every Man for Himself and God Against All. They discuss "ecstatic truth," a term invented by Herzog to capture what he's really after in his work. Illing also asks him a range of big questions, such as why he is interested in Mars and whether he thinks humanity is destroying itself.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Werner Herzog, author, Every Man for Himself and God Against All

References: 

Every Man for Himself and God Against All by Werner Herzog (Penguin Random House, 2023) 

Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog

Last Whispers by Lena Herzog (2022)

“Werner Herzog Talks Virtual Reality” by Patrick House (The New Yorker, Jan. 2016)

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Michael Lewis joins Sean Illing to discuss his new book about Sam Bankman-Fried, Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon. They talk about the FTX crash, what Lewis learned while shadowing Bankman-Fried, and what SBF’s rise and fall says about us and our financial systems.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Michael Lewis, author, Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon

References: 

Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2023)

The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2010)

The Blind Side: Evolution of a Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2007)

Moneyball: The Art of Winning An Unfair Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2004)

Liar’s Poker by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 1989)

“Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself” by Kelsey Piper (Vox, Nov. 2022)

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Sean Illing and David Brooks talk about Brooks’s recent essay, “How America Got Mean.” They discuss the country's moral history, how politics and culture have shifted our perception of connection and community, and what can be done to make things nicer.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: David Brooks (@nytdavidbrooks), author and op-ed columnist

References: 

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Every generation thinks they’re living through the strangest times, but is our generation right? Sean Illing speaks with writer and activist Naomi Klein about her new book, Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World. They discuss how a much different Naomi — her doppelganger — scrambled her professional life and led to an unexpected plunge into the ironies and absurdities of our digital world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Naomi Klein (@NaomiAKlein), author of Doppelganger and the co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice

References: 

Doppelganger by Naomi Klein (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (Picador, 2008)

No Logo: No Space, No Choice, No Jobs by Naomi Klein (Picador, 1999)

Backlash by Susan Faludi (1991)

The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power by Shoshana Zuboff (PublicAffairs, 2019)

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How worried should we be about AI? Sean Illing is joined by Stuart J. Russell, a professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI. Russell was among the signatories who wrote an open letter asking for a six-month pause on AI training. They discuss the dangers of losing control of AI and what the upsides of this rapidly developing technology could be. 

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Stuart J. Russell, professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI

References: 

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