The Holy Post

A scary number of Americans now say violence may be necessary to fix the country. A new report looks at what combination of beliefs cause a person to endorse political violence, and why it's more common on the right. Then, in response to last week's interview, Phil unpacks how our modern belief in human goodness explains the rise in authoritarianism and populism. And, why are U.S. Christians supporting the "Freedom Convoy" in Canada? A recent study from Barna found more than one-third of pastors have seriously considered leaving ministry in the last year. What's behind this crisis? Is the problem our culture, church members, how we've structured ministry, or is it pastors themselves? Skye talks to Glenn Packiam about his new book, "The Resilient Pastor," and why it's time to reexamine our assumptions about the church and its leadership. Plus, scientists create an artificial fish powered by love.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro/updates from the crew 4:44 - Valentine's Day 6:39 - Animal News https://newatlas.com/robotics/biohybrid-fish-human-heart-cells/

13:08 - Recap: Last week's interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie

18:08 - Study: Moral divisions and authoritarian leaders https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/study-provides-first-evidence-of-a-causal-link-between-perceived-moral-division-and-support-for-authoritarian-leaders-62479

36:36 - Beliefs leading to endorsement of political violence https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/victimhood-racial-identity-and-conspiracism-interact-with-christian-nationalism-to-lead-to-support-for-violence-62589 David French piece: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-seeds-of-political-violence-are

50:53 - News segment wrap-up

Sponsor 53:04 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Glenn Packiam"The Resilient Pastor" - https://amzn.to/34WGgbK https://www.barna.com/resilient-pastor/

54:17 - Interview intro 56:19 - "Pastor" definition and recent Barna stats 1:00:07 - Glenn Packiam's story/pilgrimage 1:04:02 - Tension in how pastors spend their time 1:13:44 - Authority 1:21:10 - Slowing down 1:28:10 - What's next?

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Should churches stop live-streaming their services and return to in-person worship? A recent editorial by Tish Harrison Warren has gotten a lot of negative reactions from chronically ill and disabled people who value online worship. What does the debate say about our theology of the church? ABC has suspended Whoopi Goldberg for her comments about race and the Holocaust. Is Judaism a race, a religion, an ethnicity, or something else?

Some Christians are praising Stephen Colbert for talking about how his faith informs his comedy on his talk show, while others are criticizing him for not explicitly sharing the gospel. Who's right? And David Brooks' recent NY Times article about the evangelical leaders trying to save their movement makes the Holy Post crew ask—When do we try to fix a ministry and when do we leave it? Then, Skye talks to history professor Robert Tracy McKenzie about his new book "We the Fallen People" about what the Founders really believed about democracy and the virtue of the American people. He explains how Americans lost the Founders' belief in human depravity and exchanged it for a false gospel that affirms the inherent goodness of people and democracy, and how that explains the challenges we are now experiencing in our politics.

News Segment: 0:00 - Intro 4:29 - Should churches stop live-streaming services? Tish Harrison Warren article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/opinion/church-online-services-covid.html Skye's video, "Why You're Sick of Church" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TqmTugUfT0 16:52 - Whoopi Goldberg's comments on race and the Holocaust 26:01 - Stephen Colbert on faith and comedy 36:47 - Institutions - when to fix and when to leave David Brooks article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie: "We the Fallen People: The Founders and the Future of American Democracy" - https://amzn.to/3gvwP5J Patreon Bonus Interview - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62311740/ 56:04 - Interview Start 57:57 - "Democratic gospel" definition 1:02:02 - Founders' beliefs about democracy and human nature 1:12:46 - "The Great Reversal" 1:20:21 - Jackson and unchecked democracy 1:23:22 - Christianity and partisanship 1:26:03 - Imperial presidency concerns 1:30:08 - End The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jerry Falwell Jr. is doing damage control following his profile in Vanity Fair (discussed at length in last month's French Friday episode). He's even posted a statement of faith affirming his Christian beliefs. But does that make his behavior better or worse? And how does populism explain his criticism of "religious elites" while enjoying all the benefits of being a religious elite? Is Falwell the victim of nepotism, and should ministry be a family business? Then, a researcher argues that a toxic reaction to the Religious Right can explain a bunch of cultural, political, and religious trends—including the rise of the "nones" and unchecked conspiracy theories. And data suggests Democrats project their moral belief onto their candidates, while Republicans adopt the moral beliefs of their candidates. Then, Skye talks to Dan Kimball about his book and video series, How Not to Read the Bible, about why it's critical for churches to welcome questions and doubts, and how the biblical ignorance of leaders is driving young people to find answers outside the church.

News Segment 0:00 - Intro and updates from the crew 8:22 - Falwell fallout https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1486903286556938241?s=20&t=XaamDWl84N8x0qY4wbtRtwhttps://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall

January French Friday episode: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership

25:39 - Article: "The backlash against rightwing evangelicals is reshaping American politics and faith" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/25/the-backlash-against-rightwing-evangelicals-is-reshaping-american-politics-and-faith

44:10 - Study on political candidates and moral beliefs https://www.psypost.org/2022/01/new-study-indicates-republicans-revised-their-moral-beliefs-to-be-more-in-alignment-with-donald-trump-62439

Sponsor 51:40 - Faithful Counseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Dan Kimball 52:53 - Interview start and intro 55:41 - Personal stories that led to the book/series 1:02:04 - Church as a factor 1:05:02 - Broader culture as a factor 1:15:24 - Personal conversion story 1:21:16 - Exclusivity issue 1:31:19 - End

Resources mentioned: hownottoreadthebible.com

"How (Not) to Read the Bible: Making Sense of the Anti-women, Anti-science, Pro-violence, Pro-slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture" - https://amzn.to/3HmHviQ

"How (Not) to Read the Bible" Study Guide plus Streaming Video - https://amzn.to/3ujSIwT

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

He was the president of the largest Christian university and an influential political voice for millions of evangelicals. In a lengthy new Vanity Fair profile, however, Jerry Falwell Jr. now says he has contempt for "organized religion" and "religious elites." David French and Skye Jethani discuss the shocking claims Falwell makes about Liberty University, how he lived a double life, and what his downfall says about American evangelicalism. Do Falwell and other disgraced leaders represent a bug or a feature of evangelicalism, and are ministries protecting bad or abusive leaders because they're focused on the wrong fruit? Then, what's the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and why is reforming it essential to protect American democracy?

0:00 - Start 0:21 - STORY 1: Vanity Fair profile of Jerry Falwell Jr. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall

4:17 - Falwell in context 8:16 - Victim or villain? 13:16 - Broader institutional implications 21:05 - Bug or feature? 27:14 - Measuring the wrong fruit 47:19 - An antidote: Being known 53:22 - STORY 2: Electoral Count Act reform https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/stop-screwing-around-and-reform-the 1:06:33 - End

A new study finds evangelicals see most thing in society in categories of good and evil while nonbelievers see more nuance. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the implications. Bob Jones University has a fashion design department. What could possibly go wrong? Pretty much everything when a student discovered his androgynous Jesus coat was a fundamentalist fashion faux pas. Then, art historian Matthew Milliner talks about his new book "The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations." Milliner explains the arrogance and injustice of progressivism, and the surprising story of Christianity among indigenous North Americans that rarely gets told. Plus, 100 monkeys on a truck and drunks on a plane.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro 3:29 - Animal News https://apnews.com/article/oddities-pennsylvania-monkeys-animals-52100c02527985f7dde4674724bb3332

8:16 - News of the Butt https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/us/covid-flight-passenger-violent.html

16:34 - Fundamentalist fashion faux pas https://baptistnews.com/article/how-a-students-fashion-design-project-upset-the-created-order-at-bob-jones-university/#.Ye7fBS1h1B0

39:50 - Can society be split into good and evil? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/12/21/christians-religiously-unaffiliated-differ-on-whether-most-things-in-society-can-be-divided-into-good-evil/https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/the-yuck-factor/580465/

Sponsor 51:40 - This episode is sponsored by Abide: http://abide.co/holypost

Interview with Matthew Milliner "The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations" - https://amzn.to/3tY6PYx

52:44 - Interview Start/Intro 54:45 - Why this book? 1:01:27 - Chesterton's worldview 1:08:00 - Progressivism then and now 1:15:08 - Christianity in native cultures 1:22:18 - Indigenous symbols 1:30:29 - EndOther resources mentioned: "Orthodoxy" by G.K. Chesterton - https://amzn.to/3G1TYGY"Dream Catchers" by Philip Jenkins - https://amzn.to/3FZJJDm

"One Church, Many Tribes" by Richard Twiss - https://amzn.to/3AuRksc

"Mixed Blessings" edited by Tolly Bradford & Chelsea Horton - https://amzn.to/35oZgjq

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

To commemorate MLK Day, Phil asks Esau McCaulley if we're making progress on race or if we've gone backwards in the last few years. His answer might surprise you. Skye then interviews Old Testament professor, David T. Lamb, about the updated version of his book, "God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?" Lamb argues that if read correctly, we'd discover the Old Testament is surprisingly progressive rather than barbaric. Also this week, controversy erupts as after school Satan clubs sponsored by The Satanic Temple pop up in elementary schools with Good News clubs. And, a country music star withdraws his support from a Christian school that teaches racism is a reality. Plus, scientists discover sea slugs have an interesting party trick.

News Segment0:00 - Start 2:41 - News of the Butt https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-sea-slug-can-chop-off-its-head-and-grow-an-entire-new-body-twice1/ 14:25 - After School Satan Club https://www.ourquadcities.com/news/local-news/debate-continues-over-satanic-club-set-to-meet-thursday-at-qc-elementary-school/ 22:19 - John Rich angry about school materials discussing racism https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/john-rich-is-angry-about-lipscomb-academys-dean-of-intercultural-development/article_d0e7797a-9a3c-5f86-8e8c-fba6dba38951.html

Interview with Esau McCaulley Website: https://esaumccaulley.com "Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope" - https://amzn.to/3FA3H7m 35:05 - Interview Start 36:14 - Reflecting on the last 18 months 41:51 - Where the white evangelical church is now 51:04 - Being part of the solution Sponsor 1:00:16 - Faithful Counseling Thanks to Faithful Counseling for sponsoring this episode: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Announcement 1:01:29 - Livestream with Josh Packard: https://www.patreon.com/holypost Interview with David T. Lamb Website: https://davidtlamb.com/ "God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?" (Expanded Edition) - https://amzn.to/3GH5s49 1:02:52 - Intro/Interview start 1:04:37 - Understanding the Old Testament as progressive 1:15:49 - The issue of collective justice BONUS INTERVIEW (Polygamy in the Old Testament): https://www.patreon.com/posts/61346792/ The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Last week, the country commemorated the one-year anniversary of the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn examine what's changed, and what hasn't, since the attack and what impact it's had on both Christians and our culture. They also respond to Samuel Perry's article about the way Christian Nationalism threatens democracy. Then, Skye talks to Australian theologian Michael Bird about the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. While Christians throughout the world affirm the Bible's inerrancy, Bird says American Evangelicals uniquely see the doctrine as "the one ring to rule them all." He documents many cases where inerrancy isn't used to defend the Bible, but a particular interpretation of the Bible. Also this week—goldfish chauffeurs and the Japanese invent a finger-nibbling robot to "free all humanity."

News Segment

0:00 - Intro 3:05 - Scientists teach goldfish how to drive https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/01/07/goldfish-drive/9131026002/

9:13 - Finger-nibbling robots https://www.ubergizmo.com/2022/01/yakai-engineering-amagami-ham-ham/

12:48 - Anniversary of January 6th Capitol attacks https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/opinion/jan-6-christian-nationalism.html https://religionnews.com/2022/01/05/violence-isnt-the-only-way-christian-nationalism-endangers-democracy/

Interview with Michael F. Bird

"Saving Inerrancy from the Americans?" article - https://michaelfbird.substack.com/p/saving-inerrancy-from-the-americans

"Seven Things I Wish People Knew About the Bible" book - https://amzn.to/33pYLV6

47:40 - Intro/Interview Start 50:44 - Inerrancy vs. infallibility 57:21 - American evangelicalism and inerrancy 1:07:46 - Global church and inerrancy 1:11:26 - Authorities of scripture, interpretation, and historic church doctrine 1:20:42 - Perspectives from the global church on other issues 1:27:21 - Interview End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Phil experienced a Twitter typhoon last week when he suggested "love your country" is not a Biblical command. The Holy Post crew unpacks the reactions and asks what separates godly and ungodly patriotism. Then, Skye talks to Christine Caine, founder of The A21 Campaign, about her experience of American evangelicalism as an Australian Pentecostal. With decades of experience in ministry around the world, and working against human trafficking in 14 countries, Caine says she was shocked by what she found in the American church, and advocates for more listening and cooperation with Christians in other traditions and cultures. Also this week, a Japanese professor invents a TV you can taste, and a town in the UK is terrorized by a bloodthirsty squirrel.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro and updates 4:29 - Squirrel rampage https://nypost.com/2021/12/29/squirrel-from-hell-injures-18-during-48-hour-biting-spree/

8:36 - Lickable TV https://www.reuters.com/technology/lick-it-up-japan-professor-creates-tele-taste-tv-screen-2021-12-23/

15:16 - ERLC clarification 17:38 - Critiquing our own team and purpose of the Holy Post 27:59 - Phil's Twitter discussions on love of country 46:10 Sponsors

Thanks to the sponsors of this week's episode:

Faithful Counseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Abide: abide.co/holypost

Interview with Christine Caine:A21 organization: https://www.a21.org48:36 - Interview Start 49:49 - Experience in Pentecostal church 55:28 - Church celebrity culture 1:05:02 - Healthy skepticism 1:09:12 - Cross-tradition interaction & the global church 1:25:17 - Ending

In a recent editorial, Kevin DeYoung took aim at Christian commentators, including David French, for criticizing the social and political hypocrisies within white evangelicalism. DeYoung says these necessary corrections are better left to pastors rather than "professional writers, academics, and full-time commentators." David and Skye respond to DeYoung's editorial by explaining the good, and bad, reasons so few pastors are speaking prophetically in America today. Then, they turn their attention to the remarkable NY Times report about the U.S. military underreporting civilian casualties from drone attacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. French explains why legally the terrorists, not the U.S. military, carry responsibility for these deaths, which leads to a wider discussion about the ethics of war in general, the way drones may change Americans' view of war in the future, and whether the invasion of Iraq was justifiable to begin with.

0:00 - Intro

2:40 - Kevin DeYoung editorial on Christian commentators https://wng.org/opinions/deyoung-on-white-evangelicalism-1639659990

29:54 - Drone attacks, civilian casualties, and ethics of war https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/18/us/airstrikes-pentagon-records-civilian-deaths.html

After the mess that was 2020, we had such high hopes for 2021. Were our expectations met? Phil and Skye look back on the year when the evangelical empire dug in its heels. Those opposed to #MeToo and Black Lives Matter responded by labeling empathy a sin. Voices advocating for women and people of color within the SBC left the denomination. The Salvation Army reversed course on racial sensitivity, and female scholars faced a backlash for exposing Christian nationalism and patriarchy. Will 2022 be any different, or will the sorting of the entire culture into Red and Blue tribes continue? And how wide will the rift between classical and cultural evangelicals get?

Then, the president of Barna Group, David Kinnaman, joins Skye to launch a new reoccurring segment—Barna Briefs. Kinnaman reveals brand new data about the state of the church and how the pandemic has revealed wide discontent among churchgoers with their congregations. He also says popular church structures are clearly insufficient for forming mature disciples and new church models are desperately needed. Kinnaman also reveals an alarming number of pastors are ready to leave ministry. Is there a silver lining to all of the troubling data?

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro

4:34 - Looking back and looking ahead https://www.holypost.com/post/438-the-year-that-unveiled-evangelicalism-with-john-fea

9:10 - Stories from 2021: The "sin of empathy" conversation Holy Post episode 472 - https://youtu.be/D_NHhmdss5w?t=2000 12:28 - Was 2021 "The Empire Strikes Back"?

15:47 - Russell Moore and the ERLC Painting Phil references - https://www.metrotimes.com/the-scene/archives/2021/12/12/detroit-artist-jonathan-harris-strikes-a-nerve-around-the-world-with-critical-race-theory-painting26:02 - Salvation Army and "wokeness"

32:18 - Books from this year "Jesus and John Wayne" by Kristin Kobes Du Mez - https://amzn.to/3mHdVMx "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" by Beth Allison Barr - https://amzn.to/3ECopmL

42:01 - The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/ "Church Refugees" by Josh Packard - https://amzn.to/3pzky5m "A Church Called Tov " by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer - https://amzn.to/3z4DJr7

53:06 - Looking toward 2022

Movie Phil references - "Don't Look Up" (2021)

Barna Brief with David Kinnaman: Free download for Holy Post listeners: https://www.barna.com/holypost/

1:02:37 - Interview Start 1:04:12 - Project intro: State of the Church https://www.barna.com/stateofthechurch/

1:05:31 - Digital church and effects of the pandemic 1:17:06 - Growing crisis among pastors 1:22:53 - Mental and emotional impact of pandemic

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.