The Holy Post

Conservative evangelicals organized into a political movement in the 1970s in response to the Supreme Court's decision to legalize abortion. Or did they? Historian Randall Balmer argues this origin story for the Religious Right is a myth. He talks to Skye about the real origins of the movement and how it explains the current state of white evangelicalism.

Also this week, we unpack Peter Wehner's article in The Atlantic about the breaking apart of evangelicalism. Is the church a victim of media manipulation, or is evangelicalism reaping its own rotten fruit? Plus, lawsuits between believers, training Christians for hand-to-hand combat in vehicles, and Phil's massive magical mushroom.

News Segment:

Phil's mushroom [2:47]

Christians training in hand-to-hand combat [8:39] https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article255162407.html

Mike Stone suing Russell Moore [13:14] https://religionnews.com/2021/10/20/mike-stone-files-lawsuit-sbc-rival-russell-moore-defamation-erlc-trump-abuse/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/church-state-and-the-future-of-evangelicalism/

"The Evangelical Church is Breaking Apart" [28:01] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/evangelical-trump-christians-politics/620469/

https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-441-biden-s-inauguration-the-future-of-the-republican-party-with-peter-wehner

Interview with Randall Balmer:

PATREON BONUS: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57900540

"Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right" - https://amzn.to/3btjt7D

Interview Start [52:40]

Context for approaching this study [54:23]

What is the myth? [59:59]

Effects of dispensational premillennialism on social engagement [1:11:37]

Emergence of Religious Right in the North/Midwest [1:19:35]

Why do these origins matter? [1:25:22]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

The prosperity gospel isn't just about health and wealth. Historian Kate Bowler says pragmatic values, simple solutions, and the endless quest for self-improvement, have infected most of the church in subtle ways. Kaitlyn Schiess talks to Dr. Bowler about her own battle with cancer, and how it's helped her move beyond cliches like "Everything happens for a reason," to embrace the larger mystery of faith.

Also this week, have elite evangelicals sold out to the mainstream media, or have populist evangelicals sold out to Trump voters? Everyone seems to be talking about the divide within evangelicalism, but is it really something new? The Holy Post crew looks at the arguments and how we could be seeing the latest version of a very old divide. Plus, Phil is fascinated by left-handed ghost squirrels.

News Segment:

Traveling with moss [1:38]

Animal Facts [5:34]

The divide within evangelicalism [14:40]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/church-state-and-the-future-of-evangelicalism/

https://markgalli.substack.com/p/the-galli-report-100821

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/evangelical-elites-fighting-each

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/11/the-failure-of-evangelical-elites

Interview with Kate Bowler:

Interview Start [52:19] "Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I've Loved" - https://amzn.to/3FYKLRj

"No Cure for Being Human: (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)" - https://amzn.to/3C1jyuS

Kate's Story [55:57]

"Blessed - A History of the American Prosperity Gospel" - https://amzn.to/2Z1aBD2"

No Cure for Being Human" Title [1:00:14]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/opinion/sunday/death-the-prosperity-gospel-and-me.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Certainty vs. faith[1:05:31]

American pragmatism and "useful pain" [1:07:32]

Understanding fear and living after crisis [1:11:24]

Response and engagement with these books [1:18:57] https://katebowler.com/podcasts/

The miracle of moments [1:23:35]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

This week is a special a double feature! First, Phil talks to Esau McCaulley about his recent NY Times editorial about President Biden's vengeance against terrorists in Afghanistan. McCaulley asks why so few Christian politicians seem to have Christian instincts, and what role should forgiveness have in American foreign policy. Then, Skye interviews author and podcaster Jamie Ivey about her experience as a white mom raising black kids, how it's changed her understanding of race, and why she no longer believes love can solve every problem. Also this week—new polling indicates a frightening number of people on both the right and left want to disunite the country. Are we on a path toward civil war, and is social media to blame? News Segment Trump voters are worried about anti-white discrimination and think

Christianity is under attack [4:00]

https://news.yahoo.com/84-trump-voters-worry-discrimination-143538052.html

https://twitter.com/robertpjones/status/1447601670595223557

People on the right and left wanting to disunite the country [15:10] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10050039/More-HALF-Trump-voters-want-red-states-secede-union.html

Interview w/ Esau McCaulley Interview Start: [25:41]

"The Dangerous Politics of 'We Will Not Forgive'" https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/19/opinion/revenge-forgiveness-terrorism-biden.html

"Reading While Black" https://amzn.to/3lxPtx5

Interview with Jamie Ivey: The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey: https://www.jamieivey.com/podcast-2/

"God Made You to Be You" https://amzn.to/3BEHmnX

Ivey Family Interview with Emmanuel Acho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONTXrsvenUY

Interview Start: [54:14]

The decision to adopt [58:48]

Jamie's background [1:00:54]

Parenting differently and the church's response [1:08:54]

Connecting kids with black heritage [1:19:50]

Frustration and hope with the church [1:28:12]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Friend of the show Derwin Gray has a new book! When did he have time to write it? We don't know! But he also found time to sit down with Skye and talk about it. Derwin says the Lord's Prayer isn't just a prayer, but an entire catechism of faith, a lesson in communing with God, and a call for the people of God to engage in issues of justice. He unpacks it all with Skye.

And did scientists find the biblical city of Sodom? Have psychologists found the number one predictor of atheism? And a new study finds that young Brits are twice as likely to pray regularly than their elders! What's up with that?? Mike Erre joins Kaitlyn and Phil to parse the news of the day on this week's Holy Post!

Did scientists find the biblical city of Sodom? [6:47] https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/september/sodom-meteor-biblical-archaeology-tall-el-hammam-airburst.html

Predicting atheism in adulthood [20:50] https://www.psypost.org/2021/10/new-psychology-research-identifies-a-robust-predictor-of-atheism-in-adulthood-61921

Young people in the UK are twice as likely as older people to pray regularly [35:27] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58681075

Other links: Mike Erre's podcast - https://voxologypodcast.com

Interview with Derwin Gray

"God, Do You Hear Me?" Lifeway: https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/god-do-you-hear-me-P005822396

Amazon: https://amzn.to/3my2Ooy

Interview Start [50:12] Pastoral vision for prayer [54:54] The Lord's Prayer as a mini catechism [1:00:28] The kingdom & loving our neighbor [1:09:21] Christ as the treasure [1:16:42]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Philip Yancey is one of the best-selling contemporary Christian authors, and his books helped millions find a more authentic faith long before "deconstruction" was a hashtag. His new memoir, "Where the Light Fell," tells how he escaped the racist, fundamentalist Christianity of his youth, and his lifelong quest to find God's grace in a world of suffering. Yancey also sympathizes with the ex-vangelical movement, and shares his concerns for the direction of the faith in America. Also this week, reactions to Josh McDowell's decision to step back from ministry for a season of listening. Could llama spit end the pandemic? Everyone is spinning the new Pew research about evangelicals to fit their own agenda. Phil doubles down in his footwear battle with the Dutch. And, your butt is a snowflake.

News Segment: Where in the world is Christian? [3:06] News of the Butt [9:03] https://futurism.com/neoscope/scientists-toilet-identifies-butthole Llama antibodies treat hamsters' COVID-19 [14:21] https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/llama-antibodies-treat-hamsters-covid-19-could-lead-to-nasal-spray/ Josh McDowell update [20:47] Pew research: "Evangelical" label [30:19] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/15/more-white-americans-adopted-than-she[…]al-label-during-trump-presidency-especially-his-supporters/ https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-buckets-of-evangelicals https://www.christianpost.com/news/whites-identifying-as-evangelical-grew-during-trump-administration-pew.html https://religiondispatches.org/pew-finds-trump-era-increase-in-the-evangelical-label-and-yes-theyre-real-evangelicals/ https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-475-mammoths-mcdowell-making-sense-of-white-supremacy-with-robert-p-jones Interview with Philip Yancey: Pre-order "Where the Light Fell" (releasing 10/5/21) - https://amzn.to/39Ia7nz "Soul Survivor" - https://amzn.to/39LdolZ Interview start [49:25] A memoir 40 years in the making [51:18] Impact of family and church on faith formation [55:36] The gift of pain [1:13:16] https://amzn.to/3zQpdBK The state of the American church [1:17:08] Encouragement for ex-vangelicals [1:23:05]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Senior editor of The Dispatch and constitutional attorney, David French, and Holy Post co-host, Skye Jethani, discuss why the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention should waive their attorney-client privilege in the ongoing abuse investigation. Then, French explains why the increase in self-identified evangelicals between 2016 and 2020 isn't good news, and why he now puts "evangelicals" in three different buckets. Finally, they examine claims from some neo-fundamentalists that empathy is a sin. French says the problem in America isn't too much empathy, but selective empathy.

SBC Executive Committee review [1:17] https://religionnews.com/2021/09/21/sbc-executive-committee-agrees-to-pay-for-abuse-review-stalls-on-waiving-privilege/

Defining "evangelical" [15:28] https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/did-donald-trump-make-the-church

"The American Crisis of Selective Empathy" [33:26] https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-american-crisis-of-selective

Data from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) has found that white Christians—including mainline Protestants, Catholics, and evangelicals—are the most racist religious group in America, Robert P. Jones, the CEO of PRRI, says this isn't a bug within white American Christianity, but a feature. He discusses his new book "White Too Long" about the lingering legacy of white supremacy in the church. Also this week, apologist Josh McDowell joins those saying CRT is the greatest threat facing the church, but does his argument contradict itself? Why is belief in miracles going up if overall belief in religion is going down? Phil says we shouldn't worry about scientists trying to resurrect woolly mammoths. Christian explains why she's in the Netherlands. And police in the UK issue a warning about kids buying beans.

News Segment

Where in the world is Christian? [00:47]

Christian's research and wooden shoes [4:51]Police issue warning over children 'buying large quantities of cans of beans' [9:31] https://www.unilad.co.uk/viral/police-issue-warning-over-children-buying-large-quantities-of-cans-of-beans/

Firm raises $15m to bring back woolly mammoth from extinction [16:44] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/sep/13/firm-bring-back-woolly-mammoth-from-extinction

Josh McDowell's speech and apology [22:45] https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/christian-author-josh-mcdowell-apologizes-for-comments-about-black-minority-families/2021/09/20/1ad27238-1a3d-11ec-bea8-308ea134594f_story.html

New stat: Do you believe in religious miracles? [35:41] https://twitter.com/ryanburge/status/1439949279192301573

Interview with Robert P. Jones

PRRI - https://www.prri.org"The End of White Christian America" - https://amzn.to/3Eu1OK2"White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in America Christianity" - https://amzn.to/3ArH57r

PATREON BONUS: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56402290/Interview Start [44:18]

The white Christian shuffle [48:26]Al Mohler and the SBC's racist history [51:35]https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/first-person-racial-superiority-confronting-the-truth/

Theology of white Christianity [55:31]

Data from "Deep Roots: How Slavery Still Shapes Southern Politics" [1:07:59] https://amzn.to/3u0lIHQ

More data: Thermometer vs. race index [1:11:10]

United Daughters of the Confederacy - catechisms [1:15:24]

Does church attendance affect racist attitudes? [1:20:22]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Why are people inside the church often no healthier or happier than those outside? Author Alan Noble says we are suffering from a kind of mass psychosis and going to church won't solve it. His new book, "You Are Not Your Own" challenges our understanding of identity and purpose, and calls us to a less modern, more Christian, vision of life. Also this week, progressive philosopher and political activist, Cornel West, says liberals need Jesus. What can we learn from him about critiquing our own tribe rather than judging others'. Plus, are white evangelicals keeping the guitar industry alive? And Phil brings us a new batch of animal news. Has the shark messiah been born in Italy?

News Segment:

Australian ducks learn how to swear [2:47] https://www.cnet.com/news/aussie-ducks-learn-to-swear-can-say-you-bloody-fool-like-a-human/

Rare shark "virgin birth" [5:20] https://www.sciencealert.com/a-baby-shark-has-just-been-born-but-the-mother-lived-in-an-all-female-tank

Fender: 1 in 3 guitars are bought by people who play in worship bands [8:52] https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/music/fender-one-in-three-guitars-were-bought-by-people-who-play-in-praise-and-worship-bands/

"Cornel West on Why the Left Needs Jesus" and critiquing our own tribe [10:58] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/cornel-west-jesus-progressives/619741/

"The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" podcast [22:25] https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/

PATREON BONUS: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56161614

Interview with Alan Noble:

"You Are Not Your Own: Belonging to God in an Inhuman World" - https://amzn.to/3ntxAAV

Interview Start [31:35] A metaphor for modern Western society [33:49] Church is not the solution [39:37] Pre-modernity is not the solution [42:33] Paradox of identity in modern society [48:08] Christian understanding of identity [54:24] Deconstruction and identity [1:04:54] A vision for Christian community [1:08:53]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

Last week, Texas passed a law effectively banning abortion after the sixth week of pregnancy, and the Supreme Court did not immediately strike it down. Both pro-life and pro-choice advocates have erupted in response. But what does the law really mean? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn get into the weeds and explain why the Texas law isn't the victory many assume. Then, Christina Dent shares about her unexpected journey from a conservative, Southern, Bible school graduate, to drug legalization advocate. She tells Skye about the unexpected casualties caused by America's war on drugs, and what a more Christian response to the crisis could look like. Plus, China bans kids from playing video games. Is it a smart policy we should copy, or proof that communism is evil?

News Segment: News of the Butt - Doctors find ladybug living inside man's colon [4:05] https://www.odditycentral.com/news/doctors-find-ladybug-living-inside-mans-colon.html

China bans kids from playing video games during the week [9:51] https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/tech/china-ban-video-games-minor-intl-hnk/index.html

Recent abortion law in Texas - overview & discussion [19:52] https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/texas-abortion-case-scotus

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-abortion-law-blunder-supreme-court-samuel-alito-john-roberts-whole-womans-health-11630619631

https://religionnews.com/2021/06/30/common-ground-on-abortion-is-staring-us-right-in-the-face/

Interview with Christina Dent:

End It For Good: https://www.enditforgood.com Christina Dent's TEDx talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/christina_dent_end_the_war_on_drugs_for_good

Holy Post Episode 433 with Bonnie Kristian: https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-433-ending-the-war-on-drugs-with-bonnie-kristian

Interview Start [52:52] Christina's story [53:43] It's not about the drugs [57:40] Childhood risk factors for drug use [1:00:52] Would legalizing drugs solve any problems? [1:03:41] The question of demand [1:09:48] Why legalize all substances? [1:21:10] Common objections to policy changes [1:27:11]

Former megachurch pastor, evangelical wunderkind, and author of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," Josh Harris, has since left his wife and renounced his faith. He's now pitching himself as an expert guide for other ex-vangelicals. What does his story tell us about the evangelical subculture? Then, strange things are happening at John Piper's church in Minneapolis where leaders are clashing over issues of race and abuse. And some pastors are resigning after being accused of "the sin of empathy." Then, Jamin Goggin and Kyle Strobel return to discuss revisions to their 2017 book "The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb." They stopped selling the book and revised it because one of the Christian leaders they celebrated as a "lamb" turned out to be a "dragon." They're now asking, why do we so often fail to spot toxic church leaders? Plus, scientists are making mini-brains from stem cells. But to their surprise, the brains have grown eyes. Leading Phil to ask, What could possibly go wrong?

News Segment

Updates from the crew (Jason's cinnamon rolls and Christian's film) [1:49]

Stem cell mini-brains with eyes [7:45]

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-used-stem-cells-to-make-mini-brains-they-grew-rudimentary-eyes

Josh Harris [16:21] https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/joshua-harris-mars-hill-podcast-kissed-christianity-goodbye.html

"Bethlehem Baptist Leaders clash over 'coddling' and 'cancel culture'" [33:20] https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/august-web-only/bethlehem-bcs-minneapolis-resign-meyer-empathy-rigney.html

Interview with Jamin Goggin & Kyle Strobel The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb (Revised and updated edition): https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/way-of-the-dragon/

Episode 238 (Prior conversation with Jamin Goggin and Kyle Strobel): https://www.holypost.com/holy-post-podcast/episode/1eea0773/episode-238-power-and-the-church-withjamin-goggin-and-kyle-strobel

BONUS Patreon question: What do we do with the content and impact from toxic leaders? https://www.patreon.com/posts/55594990

Interview Start [1:00:39]

Why is there a new edition? [1:02:37]

Original story and role of book [1:06:35]

How they processed the news of Jean Vanier's abusive behavior [1:10:43]

Discerning wolves from lambs - is there hope for progress? [1:16:17]

Ministering to people who have been deceived and hurt [1:24:04]