The LeadingSmart Podcast

Andy Stanley recently announced he's stepping down as senior pastor of North Point, and he named his successor, Joel Thomas, in the same announcement. It's a major moment for North Point and for the wider church, as a generation of long-tenured pastors plan their leadership transitions.

In this Leading in Real Time episode of The LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate use the news to talk about pastoral succession planning. They walk through the three types of pastor transitions they guide churches through: the gap, the baton pass, and the overlap. They share real examples of each and explain when each one fits. That includes why a short handoff is often wiser when a larger-than-life senior pastor has led the church for decades.

Tim and Holly also cover how church polity, bylaws, and denominations shape a lead pastor transition. They talk about what a congregation goes through when a long-tenured or founding pastor steps down, and why people have to "re-sign up" when the leader, vision, or team changes. They also explain why the search for a new pastor is only a small part of a healthy succession plan.

If you're a senior pastor, executive pastor, or church board member thinking about succession, whether it's next year or ten years out, this conversation will help you start with the right questions.

In this episode

• The question Tim asked Andy Stanley about succession at a Catalyst event years ago, and how Andy answered
• The three types of pastoral transitions: gap, baton pass, and overlap
• Why a baton pass or gap can be wiser for a larger-than-life leader
• How church polity, bylaws, and denominations shape the handoff
• Why people in the congregation have to "re-sign up" when the leader, vision, or team changes
• Why the search is maybe 15% of the success of a transition
• Random segment: Google vs. AI, and turning on Apple Intelligence

Mentioned in this episode

• Season 1 of The LeadingSmart Podcast: 12 episodes on succession https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_TSnQ-pENPtQXNKBIKjauS
• Our episode on the four types of senior pastors to consider after a transition https://youtu.be/K6a7ea403J4?si=Ijgpud6-cE5mCtDY
• Talk with Holly about succession: leadingsmart.com, click Let's Talk
• LeadingSmart Gatherings: leadingsmart.com

Questions? Email [email protected] or [email protected].

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Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
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Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

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 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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Are your staff meetings actually moving your church forward, or do they feel like a waste of time?

In this episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim and Holly Tate discuss why weekly all-staff meetings are one of the most effective tools for building a healthy church culture. They unpack the difference between meetings that simply share information and meetings that intentionally shape the shared language, behaviors, and values of your team.

Tim and Holly share practical ways to make staff meetings more effective, from celebrating what God is doing in your church and spotlighting your core values to creating a clear agenda and protecting everyone's time. They also walk through an example of a church that transformed its staff meetings by introducing a consistent weekly rhythm.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why weekly all-staff meetings matter for the health of your church culture
• What to include in your staff meeting agenda
• How to spotlight your church's values without turning it into a popularity contest
• How to keep meetings focused, intentional, and on time
• Practical steps to evaluate and redesign your current staff meetings
• How to organize your team's schedule to create more margin for focused work

Plus, Tim and Holly wrap up with a conversation about Tesla's self-driving technology and what it could mean for the future of driving.

For more church leadership resources and information about upcoming LeadingSmart gatherings, visit LeadingSmart.com.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

What Makes a Healthy Leadership Team? 3 Characteristics Every Team Needs

Healthy leadership teams don’t happen by accident. They’re built through intentional trust, shared responsibility, and clarity about why the team exists.

In this episode of the Leading Smart Podcast, Tim and Holly Tate unpack three characteristics of healthy leadership teams: building trust that allows for honest conversations and healthy conflict, making the leadership team the “first team” rather than prioritizing individual departments, and creating crystal-clear clarity around the team’s purpose and decision-making responsibilities.

They also share a bonus characteristic that can transform the way your team works together: meeting discipline. From creating focused agendas to following through on action steps, small changes in how your team meets can lead to better decisions and greater accountability.

Whether you lead a church staff or an executive team, you’ll walk away with practical ways to strengthen trust, break down silos, and build a more cohesive, effective leadership team.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why trust is the foundation for healthy conflict, commitment, and accountability.
• How to make your leadership team your “first team” and prioritize the health of the whole organization.
• Why clarity around your team’s purpose helps prevent unnecessary meetings and keeps decisions at the right level.
• How meeting discipline creates focus, follow-through, and better outcomes.

Healthy leadership at the top shapes the health of the entire organization. Start building a team that leads well together.

Explore more resources at LeadingSmart.com.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

Does your church staff experience the culture you think you’re creating—or have they stopped telling you the truth?

In Part 2 of this conversation on church staff culture, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate unpack two more questions inspired by O.C. Tanner’s Global Culture Report: Do we really want people’s ideas or just their execution? And would the people furthest from the leadership table describe our culture the same way we would?

From micromanagement and innovation to staff feedback and leadership blind spots, this episode challenges senior pastors, executive pastors, and ministry leaders to look beyond their own experience and listen to their teams.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

• How tight controls and excessive approvals can silence your team’s best ideas.
• How Patrick Lencioni’s Working Genius helps clarify when to brainstorm and when to execute.
• Why frontline staff may experience a different culture than senior leaders.
• How honest feedback helped reshape staff meetings at Willow Creek.
• Why conducting a culture survey without following through can erode trust.
• How acknowledging leadership weaknesses—and acting on them—can build credibility.

Healthy church culture requires more than asking for feedback. It requires listening, taking ownership, and making changes your staff can see.

Listen to Part 1 for the first three questions on compassion, staff development, and trust.

Resources:

O.C. Tanner’s Global Culture Report: https://www.octanner.com/workplace-culture-reports

Learn about church culture consulting, Working Genius, and LeadingSmart Gatherings—or schedule a conversation through “Let’s Talk”: https://www.leadingsmart.com

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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How do you build a healthy church staff culture without lowering expectations? And could avoiding hard conversations be costing your team its trust?

In Part 1 of this LeadingSmart Podcast conversation, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate unpack insights from O.C. Tanner’s Global Culture Report and what they mean for pastors, executive pastors, and church leadership teams. They discuss how to balance compassion with accountability, develop people beyond productivity, and build trust through everyday leadership decisions.

In this episode:

• Why caring for your church staff includes clear expectations and honest feedback.
• How conflict avoidance can undermine team health and performance.
• The difference between a culture of learning and a culture of growth.
• How missed commitments and a lack of follow-through erode trust.
• Why leadership development deserves a place in your church budget.

Whether you’re leading a small ministry team or a growing church staff, this conversation will help you identify the habits shaping your culture—and where to start making it healthier.

Visit leadingsmart.com for church leadership resources and information about the free October 21 culture webinar. Listen next week for Part 2.

Resources mentioned:

• O.C. Tanner’s Workplace Culture Reports
• LeadingSmart leadership resources and October 21 culture webinar

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

What challenges are executive pastors facing in large churches right now? Tim Stevens and Holly Tate recorded this episode just after LeadingSmart’s Chicago Gathering, where leaders from churches of 4,000 to 18,000 people came together for honest conversations about what is changing in ministry.

They share what stood out in the room: questions about AI and the future of the church, staff culture and health, the tension between central leadership and campus autonomy in multisite churches, and what attendance and engagement may be telling leaders about discipleship. They also reflect on the humility it takes to say, “We don’t have this figured out yet.”

LeadingSmart builds its Gathering discussions around the challenges attendees submit before they arrive. Tim and Holly explain why that matters, what leaders gain from stepping away from daily demands, and how bringing more than one person from a church can help those conversations continue back home.

To learn about upcoming LeadingSmart Gatherings, visit leadingsmart.com/gatherings.

📱 Follow us for more insights and resources
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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

What happens when a 15-year business plan moves much faster than expected?

In this special anniversary episode, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate celebrate three years of LeadingSmart as a full-time organization. They look back at how LeadingSmart began more than 20 years ago as a personal blog and grew into a team serving churches through consulting, coaching, cohorts, Gatherings and practical resources.

Tim shares three things that surprised him most about launching LeadingSmart full-time, while Holly reflects on what she has learned from working alongside him.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why decades of consistent work helped LeadingSmart grow quickly
• The value of building a team with people you know and trust
• Why Tim unexpectedly loves being an entrepreneur
• Making smart investments even when the outcome is uncertain
• Practicing generosity when resources feel tight
• Leading with an abundance mindset instead of viewing others as competition
• Staying committed to your values when they are tested

They also share their appreciation for the churches and leaders who have trusted LeadingSmart over the past three years—and settle the important question of donuts versus bagels.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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A healthy relationship between a lead pastor and executive pastor requires more than clearly defined roles. It requires trust, honesty, humility, and a willingness to have difficult conversations.

In the previous episode, Tim Stevens, host of the LeadingSmart Podcast and former executive pastor, joined Holly Tate, Executive Coach & Senior Consultant, to discuss this leadership relationship from an executive pastor’s perspective.

This week, Holly continues the conversation with David Whiting, Executive Coach & Senior Consultant, who brings the perspective of a former lead pastor. Together, they discuss the lead pastor’s responsibility in building a healthy, effective partnership with their executive pastor.

David shares practical principles, including:

• Why a lead pastor cannot outsource organizational leadership
• The difference between giving an executive pastor real authority and borrowed influence
• Why public unity requires private honesty
• How power dynamics can prevent leaders from sharing honest feedback
• Why triangulation undermines trust and delegated authority
• How lead pastors can identify the weaknesses their executive pastor helps cover
• The importance of having the courage to ask for feedback and the humility to listen

Whether you are a lead pastor, executive pastor, or second-chair leader, this conversation will help you evaluate your leadership relationships and build greater trust, clarity, and honesty.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

The relationship between a senior pastor and executive pastor can strengthen an entire church—or quietly hold it back.

In this episode of Leading in Real Time, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate discuss what it takes to build a healthy partnership between these two leadership roles. Drawing from Tim’s experience serving as an executive pastor in churches ranging from a few hundred people to nearly 20,000, they unpack the importance of defining clear leadership lanes, building mutual respect, and stewarding influence without allowing personal ambition to get in the way.

They also discuss how this relationship may need to change as a church grows—and how executive pastors can recognize when the structure that once worked is no longer what the organization needs.

In this episode:

• Why senior pastors and executive pastors need clearly defined lanes
• How an executive pastor can “put feet to the vision”
• The importance of mutual trust, respect, and personal connection
• How to steward influence when you have the senior pastor’s ear
• What to do when that influence begins to shift
• How to recognize when your executive leadership structure needs to change
• Why the best structure for the church may require leaders to set aside personal preferences

Tim and Holly also share a behind-the-scenes lesson from Jon Acuff about using humor to make difficult truths easier for an audience to receive.

If you’re trying to strengthen the relationship between your senior pastor and executive pastor—or determine what your church needs in its next season—this conversation offers practical principles to help you move forward.

Visit LeadingSmart.com and navigate to Resources → Downloads to access the free Are You More of an Executive or a Pastor? assessment.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

It’s officially here! After more than two years of conversations, planning, and development, the Healthy Church Board MasterClass is now live.

In this special launch episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate share why they created this resource and how it can help churches of every size build healthier, clearer church board governance.

Many churches are not held back by a lack of vision—they’re held back by unclear board roles, slow decision-making, unnecessary complexity, and tension between the board and lead pastor. This MasterClass gives church boards a practical way to clarify responsibilities, strengthen their relationship with the pastor, and focus more fully on the church’s mission.

Tim and Holly also share everything included in the MasterClass: nine core video lessons, a facilitator guide, reflection questions, a workbook, practical governance tools, a bonus Q&A, and a 30-minute consultation with the LeadingSmart team.

Whether your board completes one lesson during each meeting or works through the content during a board retreat, the Healthy Church Board MasterClass was designed to help your church move forward with greater health, peace, and clarity.

You’ll also learn how the free Church Board Health Assessment can help your board identify areas of strength, surface misalignment, and begin more productive conversations about governance.

We hope you enjoy this resource! 

Learn more, enroll in the MasterClass, and take the free Church Board Health Assessment at healthychurchboard.com.

📱 Follow us for more insights and resources
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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes

Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962