The LeadingSmart Podcast

How do you build a healthy church staff culture without lowering expectations? And could avoiding hard conversations be costing your team its trust?

In Part 1 of this LeadingSmart Podcast conversation, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate unpack insights from O.C. Tanner’s Global Culture Report and what they mean for pastors, executive pastors, and church leadership teams. They discuss how to balance compassion with accountability, develop people beyond productivity, and build trust through everyday leadership decisions.

In this episode:

• Why caring for your church staff includes clear expectations and honest feedback.
• How conflict avoidance can undermine team health and performance.
• The difference between a culture of learning and a culture of growth.
• How missed commitments and a lack of follow-through erode trust.
• Why leadership development deserves a place in your church budget.

Whether you’re leading a small ministry team or a growing church staff, this conversation will help you identify the habits shaping your culture—and where to start making it healthier.

Visit leadingsmart.com for church leadership resources and information about the free October 21 culture webinar. Listen next week for Part 2.

Resources mentioned:

• O.C. Tanner’s Workplace Culture Reports
• LeadingSmart leadership resources and October 21 culture webinar

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Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

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 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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What challenges are executive pastors facing in large churches right now? Tim Stevens and Holly Tate recorded this episode just after LeadingSmart’s Chicago Gathering, where leaders from churches of 4,000 to 18,000 people came together for honest conversations about what is changing in ministry.

They share what stood out in the room: questions about AI and the future of the church, staff culture and health, the tension between central leadership and campus autonomy in multisite churches, and what attendance and engagement may be telling leaders about discipleship. They also reflect on the humility it takes to say, “We don’t have this figured out yet.”

LeadingSmart builds its Gathering discussions around the challenges attendees submit before they arrive. Tim and Holly explain why that matters, what leaders gain from stepping away from daily demands, and how bringing more than one person from a church can help those conversations continue back home.

To learn about upcoming LeadingSmart Gatherings, visit leadingsmart.com/gatherings.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

What happens when a 15-year business plan moves much faster than expected?

In this special anniversary episode, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate celebrate three years of LeadingSmart as a full-time organization. They look back at how LeadingSmart began more than 20 years ago as a personal blog and grew into a team serving churches through consulting, coaching, cohorts, Gatherings and practical resources.

Tim shares three things that surprised him most about launching LeadingSmart full-time, while Holly reflects on what she has learned from working alongside him.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why decades of consistent work helped LeadingSmart grow quickly
• The value of building a team with people you know and trust
• Why Tim unexpectedly loves being an entrepreneur
• Making smart investments even when the outcome is uncertain
• Practicing generosity when resources feel tight
• Leading with an abundance mindset instead of viewing others as competition
• Staying committed to your values when they are tested

They also share their appreciation for the churches and leaders who have trusted LeadingSmart over the past three years—and settle the important question of donuts versus bagels.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

A healthy relationship between a lead pastor and executive pastor requires more than clearly defined roles. It requires trust, honesty, humility, and a willingness to have difficult conversations.

In the previous episode, Tim Stevens, host of the LeadingSmart Podcast and former executive pastor, joined Holly Tate, Executive Coach & Senior Consultant, to discuss this leadership relationship from an executive pastor’s perspective.

This week, Holly continues the conversation with David Whiting, Executive Coach & Senior Consultant, who brings the perspective of a former lead pastor. Together, they discuss the lead pastor’s responsibility in building a healthy, effective partnership with their executive pastor.

David shares practical principles, including:

• Why a lead pastor cannot outsource organizational leadership
• The difference between giving an executive pastor real authority and borrowed influence
• Why public unity requires private honesty
• How power dynamics can prevent leaders from sharing honest feedback
• Why triangulation undermines trust and delegated authority
• How lead pastors can identify the weaknesses their executive pastor helps cover
• The importance of having the courage to ask for feedback and the humility to listen

Whether you are a lead pastor, executive pastor, or second-chair leader, this conversation will help you evaluate your leadership relationships and build greater trust, clarity, and honesty.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

The relationship between a senior pastor and executive pastor can strengthen an entire church—or quietly hold it back.

In this episode of Leading in Real Time, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate discuss what it takes to build a healthy partnership between these two leadership roles. Drawing from Tim’s experience serving as an executive pastor in churches ranging from a few hundred people to nearly 20,000, they unpack the importance of defining clear leadership lanes, building mutual respect, and stewarding influence without allowing personal ambition to get in the way.

They also discuss how this relationship may need to change as a church grows—and how executive pastors can recognize when the structure that once worked is no longer what the organization needs.

In this episode:

• Why senior pastors and executive pastors need clearly defined lanes
• How an executive pastor can “put feet to the vision”
• The importance of mutual trust, respect, and personal connection
• How to steward influence when you have the senior pastor’s ear
• What to do when that influence begins to shift
• How to recognize when your executive leadership structure needs to change
• Why the best structure for the church may require leaders to set aside personal preferences

Tim and Holly also share a behind-the-scenes lesson from Jon Acuff about using humor to make difficult truths easier for an audience to receive.

If you’re trying to strengthen the relationship between your senior pastor and executive pastor—or determine what your church needs in its next season—this conversation offers practical principles to help you move forward.

Visit LeadingSmart.com and navigate to Resources → Downloads to access the free Are You More of an Executive or a Pastor? assessment.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

It’s officially here! After more than two years of conversations, planning, and development, the Healthy Church Board MasterClass is now live.

In this special launch episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate share why they created this resource and how it can help churches of every size build healthier, clearer church board governance.

Many churches are not held back by a lack of vision—they’re held back by unclear board roles, slow decision-making, unnecessary complexity, and tension between the board and lead pastor. This MasterClass gives church boards a practical way to clarify responsibilities, strengthen their relationship with the pastor, and focus more fully on the church’s mission.

Tim and Holly also share everything included in the MasterClass: nine core video lessons, a facilitator guide, reflection questions, a workbook, practical governance tools, a bonus Q&A, and a 30-minute consultation with the LeadingSmart team.

Whether your board completes one lesson during each meeting or works through the content during a board retreat, the Healthy Church Board MasterClass was designed to help your church move forward with greater health, peace, and clarity.

You’ll also learn how the free Church Board Health Assessment can help your board identify areas of strength, surface misalignment, and begin more productive conversations about governance.

We hope you enjoy this resource! 

Learn more, enroll in the MasterClass, and take the free Church Board Health Assessment at healthychurchboard.com.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

What happens when a growing church has a big vision—but its systems and board structure keep slowing it down?

In this episode, Holly Tate visits Wellspring Church (formerly Southwest Church) in Indian Wells, California, to hear from Senior Pastor Ricky Jenkins and Executive Pastor Natalie Dawson about the governance challenges their church faced as it continued to grow.

Their board was filled with good people who loved the church, but unclear decision-making, complicated processes, and pain from the church’s past were creating friction and limiting their ability to move forward. Ricky and Natalie share how LeadingSmart helped their staff and board build trust, clarify roles, transition from a managing board to a governing board, and create a shared playbook for the future.

Today, Wellspring Church is experiencing significant growth, greater alignment, and a healthier relationship between its board and executive leadership. Their story is a powerful reminder that many leadership challenges are not people problems—they are clarity, systems, and infrastructure problems.

The work Wellspring completed with LeadingSmart is also at the heart of the Healthy Church Board Masterclass. This digital experience gives your board practical teaching, reflection questions, and a comprehensive workbook to help clarify roles, strengthen accountability, and move from over-management toward healthy governance.

Your board can complete the content during a retreat or work through one lesson at a time during monthly meetings. Every purchase also includes lifetime access and a 30-minute consultation with a LeadingSmart team member to help your church identify its best next step.

Learn more at healthychurchboard.com.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

Every founding pastor eventually hands the church to someone else — and the church board structure that worked for a founder often breaks down for whoever leads next. In this episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate break down church board governance and the three key shifts every board needs to make to move from a founder board to a healthy governing board.

Tim and Holly cover:
- Why founder boards form the way they do, and why that church leadership structure has a shelf life as a church grows
- Shift #1: relational authority to role authority — clear board terms, rotations, and decision rights instead of relying on trust alone
- Shift #2: informal accountability to formal lead pastor evaluation — including a real example of a board evaluating the wrong thing entirely
- Shift #3: personality-driven unity to covenant-driven unity — why boards need to write down who they are instead of assuming it

If you're a lead pastor, executive pastor, or church board member navigating leadership transition, succession planning, or board health, this episode gives practical, experience-based language for building governance that outlasts any one leader.

Resources mentioned:
Take the free Healthy Church Board Assessment at healthychurchboard.com. The Healthy Church Board Masterclass — 11 video lessons plus a full workbook — is available for pre-order now through September 1st using code BOARDPODCAST for $500 off.

Questions? Reach out at [email protected] or [email protected]

📱 Follow us for more insights and resources
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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes

Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

How does a church board know whether the church is actually accomplishing its mission?

In this episode of Leading in Real Time, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate explain how an “ends statement” helps a church define the outcomes it is working toward. They discuss the difference between a mission, an end, and an annual goal—and how boards can evaluate ministry effectiveness without reducing spiritual growth to a collection of numbers.

Tim and Holly also cover:

• The three essential parts of an ends statement
• How to connect ministry outcomes to measurable indicators
• The board’s role in defining success
• How an ends statement supports lead-pastor accountability
• The difference between bylaws and a governance policy manual
• Why healthy churches should improve governance before a crisis occurs
• How stronger governance can prepare a church for leadership succession

Whether you are a senior pastor, executive pastor, elder, or church board member, this conversation will help your leadership team establish greater clarity around where your church is going and how you will know when you are making meaningful progress.

The Healthy Church Board Masterclass includes 11 lessons designed to help senior pastors, executive pastors, elders, and board members recognize governance challenges, establish a healthy governance framework, and practice effective church governance over time.

In this episode

00:00 Welcome and introduction
02:10 Why church board governance is top of mind
03:30 What is an ends statement?
04:00 How a church board defines success
05:45 Ends statements versus annual goals
08:30 A practical church ends-statement example
10:40 The three parts of an ends statement
11:45 Bylaws versus a governance policy manual
13:00 Why ends are central to healthy church governance
15:20 Improving governance before a crisis
17:40 Preparing a church board for pastoral succession
18:50 The Healthy Church Board Masterclass
23:00 Tim and Holly’s New York versus Los Angeles debate

Subscribe for practical conversations about church leadership, board governance, organizational health, pastoral succession, and leading in real time.

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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

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Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962

Church board members carry more than one role. They may also be small group leaders, ministry volunteers, longtime members, friends, or family—and knowing which “hat” they are wearing in each situation matters.

In this episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate discuss the multiple hats of a church board member and why board members need to clearly communicate when they are—and are not—speaking with board authority.

They unpack how a casual question or idea can unintentionally feel like a directive to church staff, how to respond when church members bring operational concerns to the board, and why a church board should only exercise its authority collectively—not through individual board members outside the boardroom.

In this conversation:

• Why a board member’s words carry extra weight
• When to take off your “board member hat”
• How to offer a perspective without making it sound like a directive
• What to do when church members ask the board to fix operational issues
• How pastors can bring clarity to church board roles and responsibilities
• Why church leadership involves uniquely complex relationships
• How clearer roles help create a healthier relationship between the pastor, staff, and board

Tim and Holly also share more about the new Healthy Church Board Masterclass, created to help church boards clarify their roles, establish a healthy governance framework, and practice healthy governance over time.

00:00 The influence board members carry
05:12 Why church board roles become confusing
08:25 When to wear your board member hat
09:45 How board authority affects church staff
12:02 What a church board should—and should not—handle
14:05 Navigating multiple leadership roles
15:35 Why church leadership is uniquely complex
19:08 When a church board starts micromanaging
20:15 Helping a board move from managing to governing
21:30 Introducing the Healthy Church Board Masterclass
24:18 Building a healthy governance framework
26:15 Resources and discounts for churches

Subscribe to the LeadingSmart Podcast for practical conversations about church leadership, church governance, organizational health, leadership teams, culture, and succession planning.

📱 Follow us for more insights and resources
Instagram: @timstevens
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PREORDER The Healthy Church Board Masterclass: https://www.leadingsmart.com/church-board-masterclass

💻Visit LeadingSmart.com

Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK

Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series
https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast

Download The Simply Strategic Show

 https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2

📩 Have questions or want to connect?
https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk

🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes

Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962