Matt McFarlane and Haris Ikram joined us for a live session to break down everything modern HR leaders need to know about compensation—from philosophy and strategy to pay transparency and AI tools.

Together, they shared a forward-thinking playbook for tackling merit cycles, aligning job architecture, and driving better employee experiences through data and design.

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Sign up for ChartHop’s 2-Minute Talk on June 4th.

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MPL Links:

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🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(04:00) Why Compensation Now? – The narrative HR leaders are sharing

(06:30) Comp is Still Broken – Transparency, tech, and rising expectations

(08:30) Gen Z and the Value Prop Shift – Employment has changed

(10:00) Making Pay Make Sense – Linking compensation to performance

(13:00) Real-World Comp Challenges – From spreadsheets to strategy

(15:30) Global Comp Complexity – APAC, logistics, high- and low-tech roles

(17:00) Job Architecture's Role – Why it’s foundational to HR today

(20:30) Rapid Fire: The Comp Playbook – Philosophy, strategy, equity, benchmarking

(32:00) Tech for Comp Teams – Centralized data, manager enablement, and AI insights

(42:00) Rethinking Merit Cycles – What modern comp reviews should look like

(47:00) Manager Training & Transparency – Empowering leaders with the right tools

(53:00) Total Rewards Experience – From offer letters to ongoing employee clarity

(58:30) Final Thoughts & One-Word Close – Key takeaways from the session

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Abby Brennan joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We discussed the power of ONA as the “shadow org chart,” how it reveals hidden influencers, and why it may be key to building smarter, more connected teams in the age of AI.

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.

🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

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MPL Links:

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🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(06:30) Abby’s Career Path – From CPA to PwC's Chief Purpose Office to People Ops at Carta

(13:00) Sabbatical & Career Reset – Reflections on alignment, values, and inertia

(15:30) Her time at Carta – Leading 6 People Ops functions and managing hypergrowth

(19:00) Experiencing a RIF – Abby’s personal and professional learnings from layoff

(24:15) What is ONA? – Introducing Organizational Network Analysis as the “shadow org chart”

(28:30) ONA in Action – Discoveries from Carta’s network visualizations

(35:10) AI & The Future of HR – ONA as a strategic lens for effectiveness, not just efficiency

(43:00) ONA Output & Use Cases – How managers and orgs can act on the data

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to unpack how to structure a people ops as a product team.

She shared four ways to build an HR squad, how to use a spider diagram for squad design, and why it’s smart to pilot just one squad first.

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

MPL Links:

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(04:38) MPL Build is Live: First Five Posts & Call for Feedback

(05:40) Topic Intro: Structuring Teams for PeopleOps as a Product

(06:05) Skillset Shifts & Misconceptions Around “Restructuring”

(07:27) The “Squad” Model Explained: Origins, Roles, & Purpose

(10:05) What a Real Squad Looks Like in HR

(11:11) Assigning Roles Within Squads Based on Skill Spikes

(13:05) Spider Diagrams & Skill Mapping for Balanced Teams

(15:26) Aligning Squads to Initiatives, Funnels, or Metrics

(17:54) Alternatives to Funnels: Focusing on Metrics & Experience

(18:44) Adapting for Smaller Teams: Prioritizing Problems with Impact

(19:33) Balancing Squad Work with Core HR (“HumanOps”) Duties

(21:01) Real-World Squad Splits: Immediate Needs vs. Futureproofing

(23:02) Solving Root Problems to Avoid Endless Hiring Loops

(24:38) The Importance of a Shared Mission Across Squads

(25:07) Working in Sprints vs. Continuous Delivery in PeopleOps

(26:47) Measuring Progress & Reporting: Squad Leads vs. Line Managers

(28:51) Real Example: How Jessica’s Partner’s ML Team Uses Squads

(30:17) Career Progression in Squads: The “Entrepreneurial” Path

(32:49) Jessica on Preferring Projects Over People Management

(34:26) The Role of VP People or CHRO as “Chief Product Officer”

(35:10) Dropbox Example: Leading Culture Through Squad Strategy

(36:59) Coaching Mid-Level HR Team Members Through the Transition

(38:13) Addressing Career Anxiety & Skill Development in New Roles

(40:20) Challenges of Implementing Squads in Large Enterprises

(42:41) Practical Skills, Organizational Resistance & MVP Delivery

(44:23) Piloting with a Positive Halo Squad: Agile Rollouts That Stick

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner’s mindset, and Nextdoor’s AI bootcamp.

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

MPL Links:

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(03:55) Bryan's story: From recruiter to dot-com era to Square and Yahoo

(09:40) Dot-com crash, pivot to outplacement services, joining Google

(11:58) Post-Google reflections: Joining Square, Yahoo, then Nextdoor

(15:22) How Nextdoor makes money & unique value of neighbor-based networks

(17:29) Impact of tariffs on ad-driven business models

(18:48) Segue to "Nextdoor's three eras" framework

(20:30) Era 1 to Era 3: Cultural and operational transformations

(24:51) Pitfalls and learnings from founder return transitions

(28:29) Founder's Mentality: The framework that guides Era 3

(31:21) Insurgency, frontline obsession & owner's mindset explained

(33:31) Nextdoor’s AI experiments and new company rhythms

(36:55) When founders should stay deeply involved

(39:15) How HR can operationalize the Founder’s Mentality

(42:58) Simplifying leadership layers to regain focus and speed

(47:13) AI bootcamps & the future of people team productivity

(50:03) “Prompt pantry” inspiration and scalable personal learning

(53:34) AI as co-pilot vs. replacement: New expectations for employees

(55:28) People Ops as a product

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💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

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😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People,  joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about “human ops” versus “people ops”, the sprint planning process for her people team, and how nobody gets people ops as a product 100% right (and that’s ok).

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

MPL Links:

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(05:43) The Trap of Perfection & Self-Compassion in HR and Life

(07:55) Excitement Over MPL Build Launch

(08:45) Revisiting Jessica’s OG Blog on PeopleOps vs HumanOps

(11:07) Defining the 3 Products: Shareholder, Consumer, and Employee Experience

(12:58) What is HumanOps vs PeopleOps? A Practical Framework

(15:04) Naming Regrets & Semantics of HR Frameworks

(16:46) Evolving the Playbook: How AI Has Changed PeopleOps

(18:30) AI in Action: Where Do Benefits and Chatbots Fit?

(21:58) Efficiency Through AI: Freeing Time for High-Impact Work

(24:19) HumanOps Litmus Test: Is a Human Presence Still Valuable?

(25:59) Real Example: Productizing Performance Calibration

(28:47) Healthy Split: How to Balance HumanOps vs PeopleOps

(30:25) Agile Practices in HR: Sprints, Retros, and Planning

(33:50) Tools & Structure for Sprint Execution in Small Teams

(35:17) Addressing Misconceptions: Perfection vs Iteration

(39:25) Metrics and MVPs: Doing the Best You Can is Enough

(43:07) Common Questions: “Is Anyone Else Doing This?” and “What if I’m a Team of One?”

(44:30) From Blog to Book: Scaling the Framework in Small HR Teams

(48:17) Recap & One-Word Closes: Self-Compassion, Gasbagging, Cathartic

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Taylor Bradley, VP of Talent Strategy and Success at Turing, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why every HR team needs to create an AI “prompt pantry”, how Turing “AI’d” their way out of onboarding 800 employees in five days, and how to build AI workflows for HR.

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Sponsor Links:

🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

MPL Links:

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(05:43) Taylor’s Unlikely HR Origin Story: From Paramedic to People Leader

(08:19) Real-Life Delivery & Skills from the Field Applied to HR

(10:14) Risk Frameworks in Emergency Response Now Power HR Decisions

(11:11) Segue to AI & Turing's Mission Explained in Plain Language

(13:44) Explosive Growth at Turing & The AGI Boom Post-ChatGPT

(16:52) The AI Education Gap in HR & Why Prompting is the New Power Skill

(17:42) Building the “Prompt Pantry” and a Culture of Experimentation

(20:17) Making Prompting Practical: From Docs to Voice Interfaces

(24:34) Why GenAI Makes Work More Enjoyable & The Joy of Mastery

(26:31) Blitzscaling at Turing: Emotions, Lessons & Focus

(28:36) How Turing Built “Allen”: Async Learning in 48 Hours

(31:21) Iterating with AI Voices & Learning Design at Scale

(33:38) Allen’s Second Form: 52K Tickets and Agentic Support

(35:17) Stephen’s AI Use Story + Clarifying What Agentic Really Means

(37:22) What Agentic HR Actually Looks Like in Practice

(39:48) Building Custom AI Tools for HR: Turing’s R&D Playbook

(42:28) Training GPTs with Empathy: Linguistics & Feedback Loops

(44:51) AI’s Disruption of the HR Job Market: An Optimist’s Take

(47:01) Managing AI Agents as the New HR Org Design

(50:04) What Will Finally Tip Lagging Companies Into AI Adoption

---- 

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Molly Sands, Head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about Atlassian’s latest research on the three things the best teams do differently, the power of unleashing collective knowledge, and why distributed teams have a headstart on AI adoption.

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🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.

🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(05:30) Molly’s Journey: From Social Psychology to Head of Teamwork Lab at Atlassian

(10:53) Day-to-Day at Teamwork Lab: Researching & Experimenting with Teams Globally

(12:50) How Atlassian Prioritizes Research & Addresses Team Challenges

(17:32) State of Teams Report 2025: The Three Key Practices of Top Teams

(23:10) Unleashing Collective Knowledge: What It Looks Like at Scale

(30:33) The AI Paradigm Shift: Why Remote-First Teams Have the Advantage

(38:10) Agentic Solutions: Can AI Agents Really Automate Team Workflows Today?

(42:46) Real AI Applications: Atlassian’s Nora Agent for Onboarding & Beyond

(48:28) Advice for People Leaders: Start Small with AI & Empower Experimentation

(50:04) Rapid Fire: Molly’s Career Advice, Superpower, and Strategy to Steal

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💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about how to find and amplify the golden nuggets of your culture, the three layers of a great employee experience, why you need to “touch the elephant”, and what kids’ stories can teach us about leadership.

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🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

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(05:48) Pat’s 18-Month Update: New Role, Book Launch, and Life Shift

(13:55) What is Intuitive? The Da Vinci System & MedTech Innovation

(18:34) How It Works: Da Vinci, AI Feedback & Remote Surgeries

(21:02) Culture Work: Merging Two Cultures & The Player-Coach Model

(25:20) Us vs. Them: Culture Nuance, Middleware & Global Complexity

(28:51) Finding the Golden Nuggets: How to Identify Cultural Truths

(31:28) Mapping Culture: From Aspirational Values to Operational Change

(33:41) Origin Story & Its Role in Company Culture

(35:08) Becoming an Archaeologist: Crafting a Cohesive Narrative

(38:49) How to Make Culture Measurable: The CEO Buy-In

(41:04) Building MPL Culture: Rigor, Humor, and Platform Principles

(45:00) Touch the Elephant: Bias, Context & Emotional Intelligence

(46:51) Why Pat Wrote the Book: Fables, Storytelling & Self-Awareness

(51:45) Pat’s Book Picks: Mulan, Goldilocks & the Lessons Behind Them

(58:16) The Bat Phone: Parenting Advice & Living Your Values

---- 

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan returned to The Modern People Leader for a deep dive on how her PeopleOps as a Product philosophy came to life. We talked about the early days of the framework, writing her book, and the launch of MPL Build — a new collaboration between MPL and Jessica to bring the methodology to more teams.

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🔗Join the MPL Live Session on all-things leave management.

🔗Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.

🔗Be the first to hear when MPL Build launches.

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(08:12) Where Jessica first discovered PeopleOps as a product in the wild

(10:24) The blog post that changed everything

(12:45) Why the 2020 timing was perfect for this framework

(14:19) Turning the blog into a book — thanks to Lars Schmidt

(18:33) Early examples of building squads and roadmaps

(21:18) Launching a full apprenticeship program in just 12 weeks

(22:46) Did the skeptics show up? And how have attitudes changed?

(25:36) The most surprising feedback from the community

(30:12) How big could this get? Is there a limit to who this works for?

(32:29) Why the U.S. is catching up to Europe in adopting this framework

(34:18) The original MPL mission: reaching 100M employees

(36:12) Announcing MPL Build: our first expert-led program from MPL Academy

(39:51) How this partnership came together and why it’s a perfect match

(42:53) Why Jesse is excited about MPL Academy and Build

(45:29) The power of a complementary team

(47:00) What’s coming next: AMA-style episodes, two paths for learners, and tons of resources

(50:43) One word close

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📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

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---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Shane Koller joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about adopting a product mindset in HR, how Ancestry’s people team built their “product roadmap”, and why even great HR programs fall short when they’re not connected.

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🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.

🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.

🔗 Be the first to hear when MPL Build launches this month.

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(07:35) Shane’s journey from psychology to Chief People Officer

(10:31) How Ancestry became the leader in family history and genomics

(13:13) Powerful storytelling: Connecting people with their family histories

(15:51) The moment Shane realized HR should run like a product team

(22:07) Adopting a shareholder mindset within the People function

(27:27) Identifying and prioritizing employee experience moments that matter

(33:15) Measuring success: Key metrics for people teams

(36:55) Restructuring the HR team to operate like a product organization

(43:45) Why CEO alignment is crucial for transforming HR

(47:06) Lessons learned from Ancestry’s "fail fast" moments 

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📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn

😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.