The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

Recorded live at HR Tech in Las Vegas from beqom's booth, Gianna Driver (Chief People Officer, One Workplace) and Emlyn De Leon (Workforce Transformation Leader, USAA) joined Daniel on The Modern People Leader for two conversations about the changing world of work.

Gianna shared how leaders can navigate change fatigue, why managing AI agents could become a new career path with its own compensation structure, and why company culture remains a competitive advantage.

Emlyn discussed how organizations can redesign tasks and skills around AI, measure the impact of technology on employee productivity, and prepare their workforce for continuous change without losing the human element.

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Gianna Driver

(04:00) The Growing Problem of Change Fatigue

(05:30) Explaining the Why Behind Organizational Change

(06:00) Why Companies Need to Slow Down to Speed Up

(08:00) Why Leaders Should Not Navigate Change Alone

(10:20) Reframing Do More With Less Into Do More With the Same

(11:00) Why Managing AI Agents Could Become a New Leadership Skill

(12:20) Why Companies May Need a New AI Management Career Track

(12:45) Why AI Fluency Could Command Higher Compensation

(15:00) How Compensation for AI Agent Managers Might Evolve

(17:10) Why Company Culture Still Matters in the AI Talent War

(19:00) Why AI Cannot Replace the Fundamentals of Employee Engagement

(20:00) Who Should Benefit From AI Transformation?

(21:30) HR's Opportunity to Lead Innovation and Change

(22:20) Reframing Change as an Opportunity Instead of a Threat

Emlyn De Leon

(29:25) Emlyn's Role in Task and Skills Redesign at USAA

(30:00) How AI Changes Tasks and Employee Skill Requirements

(31:00) Why Skills-Based Transformation Is an Evolution of Work

(32:00) What Employees Should Do With the Time AI Saves

(33:15) Evaluating Skills Gaps and Future Proficiency Requirements

(34:00) The Difference Between AI Adoption and AI Transformation

(35:00) Why Companies Struggle to Measure AI's Business Impact

(35:30) Identifying the Business Problem AI Is Supposed to Solve

(36:40) Creating Success Metrics for AI and Employees

(37:00) Measuring Automated Tasks and Human Critical Thinking

(40:20) Why Integration Matters More Than Adding More Tools

(41:15) Evaluating Vendor Governance and Integration Capabilities

(43:00) How AI Will Change Tasks Without Eliminating the Human Element

(44:30) Why HR Remains Essential to the Future of Work

(46:20) The Practical Reality of Continuous Workforce Transformation

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Recorded live at HR Tech in Las Vegas from beqom's booth, Kiran Jalakam and Jacob Little joined Daniel on The Modern People Leader for two conversations about how AI is transforming HR.

Kiran Jalakam, VP HR Technology, AI, & Innovation at SRS Distribution, shared why organizations need to redesign work instead of simply automating existing processes, how AI should support compensation and performance decisions without replacing human judgment, and why trust, governance, and AI fluency matter.

Jacob Little, Director of People Operational Excellence & AI at Rivian, discussed implementing AI agents across a large organization, building AI skills through hands-on learning, and balancing productivity gains with employee privacy, ethical responsibility, and the long-term future of work.

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Kiran Jalakam

(04:45) Why Frontline Workers Need More Than Annual Pay Conversations

(06:10) Why AI Transformation Is About Work Redesign, Not Automation

(06:40) Why Companies Should Stop Automating Broken Processes

(07:05) Deterministic, Probabilistic and Consequential Decisions

(10:40) Why Degrees and Job Titles May Matter Less in the Future

(11:15) Rewarding Employees for Output Instead of Credentials

(13:15) Why Human Judgment Still Matters When Using AI

(14:45) Becoming a Trusted Technology Partner to the CHRO

(17:20) Building AI Fluency Into Everyday Work

(17:40) The Kill Company Concept

(19:40) Why Trust Must Come Before AI Adoption

(20:15) Building AI Governance Before Deploying Automation

Jacob Little

(27:00) How Rivian Is Introducing AI Agents Into HR

(29:00) The Gap Between AI Innovation and Enterprise Adoption

(30:25) Balancing Security, Privacy and Innovation

(33:00) Why Vibe-Coded Tools Need Long-Term Governance

(34:00) Introducing Rivian's AI Playground

(36:45) Building a Technical Training Solution in Two Days

(38:40) The Four Groups That Should Benefit From AI

(40:15) Why HR Leaders Need to Be Honest About AI's Downsides

(41:15) The Risks of Job Displacement and Inequality

(42:15) The Employee Privacy Risks of AI-Powered Monitoring

(44:00) Introducing Rivian's AI Ethos Sessions

(44:35) The Question Every Company Should Ask Before Using AI

(45:00) What Happens If Every Company Eliminates Entry-Level Jobs?

(47:30) Why AI Productivity Can Increase Employee Workloads

(47:50) The Gap Between Individual Productivity and Organizational ROI

(50:30) Redesigning Hiring and Onboarding From the Ground Up

(51:00) Why Companies Should Design Processes Before Choosing Technology

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Liz Bronson (Chief People Officer, Skimmer) and Sean Page (TA Manager, Propel) joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about the rise of candidate fraud, why traditional hiring processes are becoming harder to trust, and how recruiters are rethinking sourcing, candidate verification, interview techniques, and technology to find real talent.

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(12:10) Candidates Using AI to Generate Interview Answers in Real Time

(13:35) Skimmer's Fraud Screening Results: 67% of Applicants Flagged

(14:10) When a Different Person Shows Up on the First Day

(15:10) Why People Commit Hiring Fraud

(17:10) Why Candidate Fraud Creates Serious Data Security Risks

(18:40) Broken LinkedIn Links and Stolen Candidate Profiles

(21:15) How Legitimate Candidates Can Stand Out

(22:15) Why Referrals and Direct Sourcing Are Making a Comeback

(23:30) Using Deeper Behavioral Interviews to Verify Experience

(24:05) Sean on Why Personal Branding Matters More Than Ever

(27:05) Why the Best Interviewers Ask Better Follow-Up Questions

(28:20) Why Interviewer Bias Training Matters More Than Ever

(30:35) Using Recorded Interviews to Review Suspicious Responses

(33:35) Why AI Screening Can Favor AI-Generated Applications

(34:30) Bringing Human Recruiters Back Earlier in the Hiring Process

(35:05) Why Strong Sourcing Skills Are Becoming More Valuable

(38:10) Recruiters Building Their Own Tools With Claude

(43:35) When to Stop Accepting Applications and Focus on Targeted Sourcing

(45:50) Sean's AI-Powered Market Mapping Tool

(47:30) Why Recruiters Need to Think Like Detectives

(48:10) Where Candidate Fraud Could Go Next

(51:15) Sean's Biggest Concern: AI Deepfakes in Remote Hiring

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Susan LaMonica, the CHRO at Citizens, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about how Citizens transformed its leadership and culture, why leadership is the most important lever for organizational success, and how its new leadership framework combines intelligence, technology, emotional intelligence, and meaning to develop adaptive leaders.

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(08:20) Discovering Her Passion for Leadership Development

(13:35) Why Trust Matters When Driving Change

(22:40) Winning the Hearts and Minds of Employees

(23:20) Why Leadership Became Citizens’ Top Priority

(24:30) How Leaders Shape Organizational Culture

(25:15) Preserving the Best Parts of Citizens’ Culture

(26:40) Introducing the Organizational Health Survey

(28:15) Moving From Third-Quartile to First-Quartile Organizational Health

(29:30) Why Leadership Is the Uber Lever

(30:05) Introducing Bold Leadership at Citizens

(30:45) Why Leadership Is Not Just About Job Titles

(32:50) Introducing Citizens’ Leadership Quotient Framework

(33:15) IQ: Insight, Intelligence and Judgment

(33:40) TQ: Technology Fluency and Digital Capability

(34:00) EQ: Emotional Intelligence, Empathy and Self-Awareness

(34:25) MQ: Meaning, Purpose and Alignment

(34:50) Why Learning Agility Is a Competitive Advantage

(35:15) What It Means to Be an Adaptive Leader

(37:10) Intellectual Curiosity and a Test-and-Learn Mindset

(38:10) Why Leaders Do Not Need to Have All the Answers

(39:40) Using the Leadership Quotient in Talent Assessments

(40:20) Identifying Strengths and Weaknesses Across Leadership Teams

(41:00) Why Technology Quotient Is the Biggest Development Opportunity

(43:00) Career Advice: Understand the Business First

(44:35) The Practice Susan Would Steal: Microsoft’s Learn-It-All Culture

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Katarina Berg, Chief People Officer at On, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about her journey from Spotify to On, why performance growth is more powerful than performance management, and how people, leadership, curiosity, learning, and AI will shape the next era of work.

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(08:15) Succession Planning and Practicing What You Preach

(10:15) Working With Daniel Ek and Stretching Her Thinking

(11:00) Pressure Testing HR Truths at Spotify

(11:45) When People Grow, the Company Grows

(13:05) Finding a Culture You Can Feel When You Step In

(13:35) On’s Entrepreneurial Spirit and Swiss Engineering Mindset

(18:30) Performance Development Versus Performance Management

(19:15) The Four Ps: People, Product, Planet and Profitability

(20:45) How Performance Management Can Demotivate People

(21:15) Autonomy, Competence, Purpose and Benevolence

(22:10) Why Performance Growth Works Better Than Performance Management

(23:00) Proud People Perform

(23:40) Giving People a Clear North Star and a Mental Paddock

(24:30) Why Growth Is a Business Strategy, Not an HR Program

(25:10) Why Downsizing L&D Misses the Point

(28:00) Upskilling, Cross-Skilling and Off-Skilling

(29:15) Why Learning Is an Investment, Not a Cost

(29:45) The Human Skills Technology Cannot Replace

(32:20) The Importance of Leadership in a Paradigm Shift

(34:00) Mercenaries, Missionaries and Why Both Systems Can Work

(39:15) Why HR Needs Business Acumen, Not Just HR Acumen

(41:15) The People Team Hackathon and Building Agents

(43:10) Focusing on Learnings Instead of Blame

(50:15) Applying New Technology to Old Ways of Working

(51:15) Why AI Will Change Everything, But Not Overnight

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Vanessa Okwuraiwe, Head of Inclusion & Accessibility, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about how inclusion work has moved deeper into the business, why purpose matters at Edward Jones, and how human judgment, client trust, accessibility, and AI are shaping the future of financial services.

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(14:15) Why Inclusion Is More Integrated Into the Business Now

(15:10) Moving Inclusion From Standalone Programs Into Policy, Process and Systems

(16:25) Building Inclusion Into Leadership Development and Behavior Models

(17:35) Why Inclusion Should Never Be Fashionable

(18:15) Business Resource Groups as Business Influencers

(19:35) Vanessa’s Day-to-Day Work Across Advocacy, Cultural Acumen and AI

(20:15) Building Human Judgment Into AI and Client Experiences

(20:45) Looking at the Client Opportunity Across Generations

(24:00) Why Younger Generations Expect More Inclusive Companies

(26:35) Digital-First Expectations and the Future of Branch Experiences

(29:30) Serving Five Generations of Clients

(30:05) Why AI Makes Information a Commodity, But Trust Still Matters

(33:15) Big P Purpose: Positive Impact With Clients, Colleagues and Communities

(34:10) Little P Purpose: Everyday Ways People Activate Purpose

(37:35) How Edward Jones Develops Leaders Around Respectful Debate and Inclusion

(40:20) Vanessa’s Personal Purpose

(41:35) Giving Feedback With Kindness and Dignity

(43:30) Using AI for Efficiency While Preserving Human Judgment

(44:20) Why Human Connection and Trust Still Matter Most

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more

Andy Doyle, Chief People & Agent Officer at Kantar,  joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about Kantar’s agentic HR transformation, why the future workforce will be a mix of humans and agents, and the four dimensions of AI we should be looking at when we think about who benefits from the AI gains.

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Sponsor Links:

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(09:25) Why There Has Never Been a Better Time to Work in HR

(12:25) “What Would You Need to Believe to Take Another 50% Out?”

(14:00) Four Big HR Operating Model Changes at Kantar

(14:35) Moving From COEs to Business Capability Hubs

(15:35) Cutting the Bonus Cycle From 12 Weeks to 8 Days

(16:10) Why Kantar Took Business Partners Away From the Business

(18:00) Taking Workday Access Away From Business Partners

(20:40) Twelve Thousand People and Seventeen Thousand Agents

(22:30) Why Technology Has Become Disposable

(23:00) HR Building Agents Without the Technology Team

(26:45) Why HR Needs Clean Data and Better Foundations

(28:10) Rewriting 4,200 Policies for Agents to Read

(33:05) Why Leaders Must Build and Role Model Agents

(33:45) HR Analytics Agent That Reduced a Monthly Task From One Week to Ten Minutes

(35:10) Why Kantar’s TA Team Is Smaller, More Productive and More Engaged

(35:35) Sharing the AI Dividend Across Shareholders, Clients, Employees and Society

(39:00) Why Kantar Wants 80% From Agents and 20% From Human Judgment

(42:15) Why Everything Andy Knew About Change Has Gone Out the Window

(47:25) Rethinking the Five-Day Workweek and Vacation Time

(52:25) The Practice Andy Would Steal: Product Mindset in HR

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Luca Oake and Jessica Zwaan joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about building scalable L&D, why onboarding should be outcomes-focused instead of input-focused, and how AI, strong project runways, iteration, and builder mindsets can help people teams move faster.

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(08:05) Talentful’s Need for a More Scalable Onboarding Program

(13:35) Why L&D Needs to Focus on Outcomes, Not Inputs

(14:25) Why Learning Does Not Happen Until Behavior Changes

(14:55) How AI Changes the Role of Coaches and L&D Leaders

(16:25) Jessie on Using AI as a Tool, Not the Decision-Maker

(19:15) Why Jessie’s Upfront Brief Made the Work Faster

(20:40) Building a Smooth Runway for a Consultant

(22:00) Designing for Outcomes and Scale

(23:10) Flexible Operators and Expert Consultants as the Future of Work

(25:40) Making the Project a Talentful Priority, Not a Jessie Project

(26:45) Why Change Projects Need Strategic Seeding Across the Organization

(28:20) How AI Helped Luca Process Interviews, Transcripts and Documents

(29:00) Why Fractional Consultants Can Move Faster With AI

(30:10) Designing the Onboarding Wireframe in Less Than a Month

(35:15) The Complexity of Talentful’s Onboarding Program

(38:10) Zooming In Before Zooming Out With Stakeholders

(39:35) Building to Iterate, Not Just to Launch

(40:10) The Biggest V1 to V2 Change: Four Weeks Down to One Week

(42:20) Why MVPs Matter in People Ops

(43:15) Why HR Needs Permission to Iterate

(45:50) Why Moving Quickly Is No Longer Optional

(52:35) Why Feelings Are Data, Not Facts

(53:25) Why the Best L&D Is Building

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Dan Mishin, Founder & CEO of Manifest OS, joined us on The Modern People Leader. 

We talked about how Manifest is rebuilding immigration law for the AI era, why talent strategy now requires faster, more creative support for global employees, and how AI-native companies are changing management, engineering teams, vendor strategy, and the war for 10X talent.

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(13:00) Charlie Munger, Incentives and the AI Economy

(14:30) The Problem With Billable Hours

(15:20) Why Legal Pricing Should Be Fixed, Transparent and Outcome-Based

(20:45) Immigration as a Talent Acquisition and Retention Lever

(21:40) Why Tech Companies Need Creative Immigration Strategy

(23:25) How AI Frees Lawyers to Focus on Strategy and Service

(25:20) Why High Output Management No Longer Fits the AI Era

(26:20) How Manifest Structures AI-Native Teams

(26:45) One AI Engineer, One Lawyer and Full Autonomy

(27:20) Using AI Agents to Orchestrate Work and Avoid Duplication

(30:00) Treating AI Agents Like Independent Employees

(31:20) Why CEOs Need Daily AI Education Time

(31:45) Hiring People Who Grew Up AI-Native

(32:10) Why Dan Does Not Want Professional Managers in Technical Roles

(36:20) Rethinking Vendor Strategy Around AI-Native Partners

(38:00) Why Executives Should Do the Grunt Work

(40:25) Revisiting Decisions in Real Time

(41:00) Why Going Back Down the Mountain Is So Hard

(42:25) The New Talent Strategy in the AI Economy

(43:40) Why A-Players Have 10X More Leverage Now

(46:40) Career Advice: HR Needs to Become HR Plus Ops Plus Product

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Laura McGann joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about why change management no longer feels like the right term, how the ADKAR framework helps people name where they are stuck, and what leaders need to do as AI, velocity, overwhelm, and constant change reshape work.

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Sponsor Links:

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(12:25) Why “Change Management” No Longer Feels Like the Right Term

(17:35) Why Defining Success Is the Most Important Part of Change

(18:20) People-Side Metrics: Utilization, Adoption and Proficiency

(21:10) Why Change No Longer Has Clear End Dates

(22:20) No Recovery Gap and the Rise of Change Fatigue

(25:10) Naming What Is Happening Through ADKAR

(25:35) ADKAR: Awareness, Desire, Knowledge, Ability and Reinforcement

(26:40) Using ADKAR to Name Where You Are Stuck

(29:00) Why Leaders Often Skip Awareness and Desire

(29:45) AI and the Perpetual Knowledge-to-Ability Cycle

(33:30) Why the Pace of Change Feels So Uncomfortable

(35:10) Why Leaders Need a Portfolio View of Change

(38:10) Why Leaders Should Not Be Afraid to Say “Overwhelmed”

(41:00) What Future Leaders Need to Learn About AI

(45:45) Why Leaders Need Hands on Keyboards

(46:30) AI as an Enabler of Business Strategy, Not the Strategy

(47:15) Daniel’s Suitcase Metaphor for Manager Overload

(50:00) Deciding What AI Can Do and What Must Stay Human

(52:00) Stephen on Knowing What Not to Do

(56:00) Career Advice: Learn the Business Before You Try to Change It

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.