The Operations Room: A Podcast for COO’s

In this episode we discuss: Board Relationships. We are joined by Helen Hopper and Joy Harcup, authors of book, The Art and Psychology of Board Relationships.  

We chat about the following:

• Unravelling Boardroom Dynamics: What's Really at Stake?
• The Power of Psychological Safety: A Boardroom Imperative?
• Self-Awareness: The Boardroom Game Changer?
• Mastering Conflict Resolution in the Boardroom: Strategies Unveiled
• Trust, Collaboration, Success: The Boardroom Trifecta?

References: 

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/helen-hopper-h3/
• https://www.hcubed.co.uk/who-we-are
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/joy-harcup-9392352/

Biography: 

HELEN HOPPER trained in management consultancy with Accenture, and in occupational psychology with SHL, before co-founding the leadership consulting firm hCubed in 2010, where she is a Partner. h3’s mission is to stimulate growth through learning and Helen pursues this with individuals, teams and organisations as a coach and facilitator. She is an active supporter of mental health charities, most recently as COO of The Listening Place, and Trustee at The Mix.

JOY HARCUP is an executive coach with international coaching firm Praesta LLP, working with individuals, top executive teams and boards. She has 20 years’ leadership coaching experience with clients including the FTSE 100, professional services, public and not-for-profit sectors. Joy was President of the UK Board of the International Coaching Federation. A former lawyer specialising in dispute resolution, she’s also sat on boards in the education and charitable sectors. 

To learn more about Beth and Brandon or to find out about sponsorship opportunities click here. 

Summary:

• Bullying in board meetings and its impact on individuals. 0:06
• Bethany Ayers experienced issues with her phone number porting and international roaming, leading to a frustrating conversation with Oh Two customer support.
• Despite being told her case was closed, Bethany was able to get her number back after waiting for a couple of days.
• Bethany acknowledges being a potential bully in the past, recognizing behaviors that could be harmful to others.
• Brandon M. questions the use of the term "bullying," suggesting that it can be subjective and context-dependent.
• Effective board meetings, leadership, and conflict resolution. 5:18
• Brandon M. and Bethany discuss ways to address unhelpful behavior in meetings, including intervening, redirecting, and parking the issue for later discussion.
• Effective chairperson engagement is critical for maintaining a functional board, according to Brandon M. and Bethany.
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of having a pre-agreed contract, such as a team canvas, to establish expectations and prevent conflicts within teams.
• Bethany criticizes traditional board dynamics, citing a lack of modernization and unrealistic expectations of chairs, and argues for more inclusive and empathetic approaches to leadership.
• Effective board meetings, including setting a strong chair, providing clear agendas, and making an ask of the board. 10:36
• Brandon M suggests setting a strong chair, creating a safe environment, and starting the meeting with positivity.
• Bethany shares her personal experience with self-reflection and realizing she may be projecting her own issues onto others.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of formalizing asks and understanding board dynamics.
• Boardroom dynamics, bullying, and effective leadership. 14:40
• Helen and Beth discuss the importance of self-awareness in boardroom dynamics, identifying seven difficult dynamics and providing questions for individuals to reflect on their contribution.
• The book "The Art and Psychology of Boardroom Relationship Dynamics" offers practical strategies for improving relationships, including getting clear on roles and agreements, and using the "tears tactic" to resolve conflicts.
• Helen suggests dealing with bullying by understanding it's often unintentional and lacking awareness of impact.
• Brandon M. shares a scenario where exiting board members was the fastest way to address toxic dynamics.
• Helen emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and empathy in avoiding bullying dynamics.
• Joy stresses the value of authentic leadership and role modeling in creating a productive board culture.
• Leadership roles and responsibilities in a board setting. 22:43
• Bethany struggles with power dynamics in a growing team, feeling like she's overstepping or under-utilizing her skills.
• Joy's research highlights the importance of working at the right level of work to avoid losing opportunities.
• Joy: Facilitate conversations, surface concerns, and make decisions (Joy)
• Bethany: Share knowledge from other boards, have one-on-one with chair (Bethany)
• Board dynamics, psychological safety, and effective communication. 27:23
• Helen suggests conducting a board evaluation every 3 years to identify areas for improvement.
• Joy emphasizes the importance of transparency and openness in board dynamics.
• Helen and Joy share insights on creating psychological safety in board meetings, inviting contributions, and addressing conflicts.
• They emphasize the importance of open communication, active listening, and taking small steps towards change.

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In this episode, we discuss performance management and getting the most from your teams. We are joined by Jessica Zwaan, Author of the best-selling book, Built for People, and COO of Talentful.

We chat about: 

• Can traditional performance reviews truly capture an employee's value?
• Are OKRs just a trendy buzzword or a real strategy for driving company success?
• How can organizational network analysis uncover the real influencers in your team?
• What does it take to measure true employee performance in today's remote work era?

References:

Jessica’s LinkedIn

Website

Biography: 

Your company is building three products: A financial instrument, a customer product, and an employee experience. I advocate treating employees as customers purchasing an experience of work, and I encourage us to work like Product Managers in order to iterate and improve on that product. This paradigm shift positions work itself as the focal point of our strive for success, not just optimising the individuals as "human capital". Like the idea? I wrote a book all about it, called "Built for People" which you can buy basically anywhere books are sold.

To learn more about Beth and Brandon or to find out about sponsorship opportunities click here. 

Summary:

• Choosing a life partner and nannies as a "wife hire." 0:05
• Bethany discussed tips for choosing a partner for career success, including finding someone whose mother worked outside the home.
• Bethany values hiring a nanny for the mental load relief and organization.
• Performance management effectiveness and its various components. 4:40
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the ineffectiveness of performance management, with 64% of workers viewing it as a waste of time and 47% considering it a failure in their company.
• Jessica Swann distinguishes between performance assessment and management, highlighting the importance of individualized growth and development in the latter.
• Bethany expresses concerns about goal-measuring and its practicality in the workplace.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of organizational network analysis and its impact on problem-solving.
• Performance management and leadership development. 10:06
• Bethany suggests rolling out OKRs gently, learning along the way, and avoiding command and control.
• Brandon agrees, emphasizing the importance of measuring marketing and sales performance collectively and connecting it to business outcomes.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of effective performance management and leadership skills for line managers.
• Bethany questions the feasibility of performance management, citing potential biases and limitations in the process.
• Performance management and assessment in organizations. 15:27
• Jessica emphasizes the importance of understanding employee performance, citing it as the most critical question in HR.
• Bethany agrees, highlighting the need for effective performance management frameworks to assess employee productivity.
• Jessica argues that traditional performance assessment methods are inadequate for understanding team dynamics and impact on revenue.
• She provides an example of how organisational network analysis can reveal hidden high performers in a team, even if their direct impact is limited.
• Building employee lifetime value algorithm, identifying superstars, and optimizing team performance. 20:22
• Jessica and Brandon discuss building an employee lifetime value algorithm, with Pete Fader and Dan McCarthy as experts in the field.
• Jessica explains the importance of identifying team members who are most valuable to the organization based on their network analysis.
• Jessica highlights the need to evaluate the effectiveness of individual team members and determine their total available current value creation.
• Goal setting and performance measurement in organizations. 24:46
• Jessica and Brandon discuss goal setting and the importance of involving the right people in the process.
• Jessica provides a framework for setting effective goals, starting with top-line objectives and working down to individual levels.
• Jessica and Bethany discuss the challenges of measuring performance in a large organization, including the time and effort required to gather feedback and set goals.
• Jessica's team uses a lightweight model to track progress and identify areas for improvement, with a focus on individual and team effectiveness.
• Performance management approach at a professional services company. 29:31
• Jessica prioritizes systemic management over individual performance management.
• Jessica emphasizes the importance of individual performance assessment in a calibrated exercise.
• Performance management and goal setting, with a focus on organizational network analysis. 32:49
• Bethany questions the effectiveness of performance management systems, suggesting they may not be tied to valuable outcomes.
• Jessica emphasizes the importance of goal setting and connecting employee work to company success.
• Bethany reveals surprising insights from organizational network analysis: weak managers, strong teams, and misaligned goals.
• CEO discovers high-performing team members through network analysis, despite low manager performance, highlighting potential for growth.
• Performance management, OKRs, and calibration exercises. 37:15
• Jessica highlights the limitations of individual performance assessments, advocating for a more systemic approach.
• Brandon discusses calibration exercises as a way to connect pay to performance, but Jessica questions their effectiveness.
• Jessica and Bethany discuss the importance of context in decision-making, rather than just measurable goals.
• Jessica advocates for fewer, more impactful goals, rather than many goals with little impact.
• Measuring employee performance and accountability in a changing work environment. 41:55
• Jessica aims to simplify goals, prioritize impact, and hold team members accountable.
• Brandon and Jessica discuss the importance of measuring employee performance and accountability in a more autonomous workforce.
• Jessica advises CEOs to focus on employee lifetime value and return on investment to enable people operations teams to do their work effectively.

In this episode, we discuss usage-based pricing, seat pricing, maximising margin and customer expansion. We are joined by Mark Stiving, Founder of Impact Pricing.

We chat about: 

• What exactly is usage-based pricing?
• How do we correlate pricing metrics with how customers are using the product?
• What are the criteria and considerations when choosing the value metric?
• How do you choose between true usage-based pricing and tiered usage-based pricing?
• How do we work around the pricing mechanisms that our clients or vendors are giving us?
• Is there more of a move towards straight usage or is tiered pricing here to stay?
• How do we expand our customers?
• Who should be responsible for pricing and packaging within the company? 

References:

Mark on LinkedIN

Mark’s podcast, Impact Pricing

Biography: 

Mark Stiving, Pricing Educator, Coach, Podcast Host & 2x Author. He has driven business initiatives worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He is sought after for his superpower of finding invincible profits in every company he works with.

He is an award-winning international speaker known for helping audiences find hidden value and more profit, immediately.

Mark started and successfully sold three powerful companies in the tech sector.

His forthcoming book is "Invincible Profits: How to Lead a Value Revolution and Dominate Your Market"

To learn more about Beth and Brandon or to find out about sponsorship opportunities click here. 

Summary:

• Usage-based pricing with a focus on personalization and avoiding seat-based pricing. 0:05
• Bethany shares her recent haircut experience with Brandon, including the surprise of finding a large amount of hair after cutting it.
• Brandon discusses usage-based pricing, highlighting its potential cleverness and limitations.
• Pricing strategies for SaaS companies, including usage-based pricing and subscription packages. 4:02
• Brandon: Value metric should be clear, easy to understand, and tie to usage (e.g., transcription files, contacts in HubSpot)
• Brandon: Finding a single value metric to scale can be challenging, as customers may not understand usage outside of vendor-supplied calculators
• Brandon discusses challenges in customer success with usage-based pricing, including unhappy customers who want to downgrade and the potential for unused value.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of commissioning based on usage and actual money being seen, with a focus on driving the right behavior and predictability.
• Brandon: Great product + late professionalization = risk (bankruptcy)
• Brandon: Sales reps should focus on signing contracts, not just selling
• Pricing metrics for SAS companies, focusing on value-based pricing and customer willingness. 11:53
• Mark discusses pricing metrics in SAS businesses, highlighting user base pricing as most common but not always best option.
• Ideal pricing metric is outcome-based, charging customers a portion of incremental profit created, like credit cards or PayPal.
• Mark: Dropbox charges by amount of memory used, maintaining margins despite decreasing storage costs.
• Mark: Pricing metric should be highly correlated with value, accepted by customers, and measurable.
• Pricing strategies for software companies, including usage-based pricing and tiered pricing. 17:38
• Bethany: Pricing with customers often, despite seat-based pricing not being best way.
• Mark: Metering every feature from beginning helps understand market segments and value.
• Mark considers tiered vs direct usage-based pricing for software, weighing customer perspective and revenue impact.
• Pricing strategies for software companies, including usage-based pricing and land-and-expand models. 21:41
• Mark advises companies to focus on solving specific problems for specific market segments, rather than trying to be a platform for everything.
• Mark suggests that even in straight usage models, there are good, better, best options, and the goal is to find the right SLA (service level agreement) for each customer.
• Mark recommends considering good to better to best packaging for both subscription and non-subscription businesses.
• Companies should monitor usage and drive usage to expand customer accounts, with compensation depending on the situation.
• Pricing and packaging strategies for SaaS companies. 26:48
• Mark argues that SAS companies should pay salespersons based on lifetime value of clients, rather than just initial sign-up.
• Mark believes that commission structure should incentivize salespersons to win deals, rather than just maintain existing clients.
• Mark emphasizes the importance of understanding value to customers in pricing and packaging decisions.
• Consultants can be hired to run numbers and provide pricing recommendations, but it's important to consider the cost and potential impact on internal decision-making.
• Mark recommends a usage-based pricing approach that prioritizes client comfort and transparency.
• Buyers trade money for value, so it's essential to demonstrate the value of your product.

In this episode, we discuss: Is it possible to pivot to profitability? We are joined by Libby Penn, she is the COO of Improbable.

We chat about the following: 

• What's the COO's role in the pivot to profitability
• What are the right bets to make in a business?
• How should we balance profitability and growth?
• What is the importance of well-documented data?
• What is realistic in terms of profitability?
• Who is responsible for capturing data?

References:

LinkedIn

Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke 

Biography: 

Libby Penn has experience in various business development and operations roles across a number of high-growth technology businesses on SaaS and enterprise models, B2B and B2C, in both the UK and the US. This has given her an in-depth insight into the complexities that come with the role as COO.

Summary:

• Gender roles and microaggressions in the workplace. 0:05
• Bethany Ayres discusses the challenges of being a woman in leadership positions, including societal expectations and performative ally ship.
• Bethany launches a series of free webinars to support first-time female executives and aspiring executives, focusing on topics such as taking a seat at the table and choosing the right life partner.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the challenges of navigating gender roles and microaggressions in their personal and professional lives.
• Bethany shares an example of a leadership team meeting where a male colleague's swearing and apologies towards her created an uncomfortable work environment.
• Pivoting to profitability for a B2B SaaS company. 4:55
• Bethany: Analyzes company's strategy, identifies unprofitable areas for cuts.
• Bethany: Looks at lease and office expirations, considers cost-cutting measures.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss strategies for improving profitability, including renegotiating cloud contracts, focusing on profitable channels, and optimizing GTM motions.
• They also discuss the importance of tracking data properly to make informed decisions about spend and identify areas for improvement.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss partner strategy, testing, and doubling down on successful partnerships.
• They emphasize the importance of hiring quality people who are well-respected within the partner company.
• Pivoting to profitability, focusing on market strategy, operations efficiency, and automation. 12:42
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of qualitative analysis to validate data-driven insights for profitability.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of operational efficiency and automation in a company's shift to profitability.
• Balancing growth and profitability for startups. 15:55
• Libby highlights the importance of balancing risk and innovation in investments.
• Libby emphasizes product development as key to profitability, while Bethany focuses on balancing growth and profitability.
• Data analysis, product development, and customer focus in tech companies. 20:03
• Analyze cost of delivering product, profitability of product sets, and customer profiles to make informed decisions.
• Prioritize bets on most profitable products and customer segments, layering up over timeframe (18 months).
• Libby and Bethany discuss the importance of data-driven decision making in marketing, with Bethany expressing frustration at the lack of data sophistication in internal systems and the need for more rev ops professionals.
• Brandon and Libby discuss the importance of understanding customer CV values and go-to-market motion.
• Libby emphasizes the need for a solid customer base with a sticky product that provides value.
• Customer success teams and their impact on product development and profitability. 26:19
• Bethany: Customer success teams can eat into gross margin, especially when product is not user-friendly.
• Libby: Good customer success teams can help with customer adoption, but implementation is also important.
• Libby: UX teams struggle to deliver due to engineering and sales leaders' lack of time and willingness to listen to user research.
• Using AI to improve product adoption and financial management in startups. 30:36
• Companies prioritize user experience to drive commercial success.
• Libby emphasizes the importance of financial acumen in business leaders, including understanding cash flow and opportunity cost.
• Brandon highlights the challenge of accountability and controls in a company with a tight runway, and the need for transparency and financial literacy across the team.
• Financial transparency and empowering employees to make better decisions. 34:48
• Libby emphasizes the importance of financial education for teams, citing her experience at Blippo where transparency and knowledge-sharing helped employees stay motivated during difficult times.
• Bethany expresses interest in learning more about financial education resources, and Libby suggests exploring pre-made materials or seeking help from professionals.
• Libby suggests building financial literacy into onboarding processes to ensure employees understand how the business makes and spends money.
• Brandon emphasizes the importance of VPs of Finance being leaders and communicators, not just number crunchers.
• Libby emphasizes empowering employees to help build the business.
• Employee X presents a new pricing strategy, improving gross margin.
• Investing in people, understanding company finances, and empowerment in the workplace. 42:32
• Bethany shares her experience of feeling empowered in some organizations but not in others, and highlights the importance of giving people access to power and information to contribute.
• Libby encourages leaders to create opportunities for people to connect with them, such as monthly drop-in lunches or cross-functional working groups, to foster a culture of inclusion and empowerment.
• Libby emphasizes the importance of understanding a company's finances to make informed decisions.
• Unlocking the state of a business through data analysis can lead to clearer conversations with investors and improved profitability.

In this episode, we discuss: The life-ruining power of routines. We are joined by Markham Heid, he is a Journalist with TIME and New York Times. 

We chat about the following: 

• How do we optimise our lives without falling into the trap of routine?
• Do we need routine and structure to be productive? 
• Are you busy because it’s necessary? 
• What’s the right balance between routine and creative space? 
• How can companies get involved in breaking routine and encouraging creativity?

References: 

LinkedIn

Article - The life-ruining power of routines

Website

Biography: 

Markham has worked as a staff writer at both a major metropolitan newspaper and a national magazine, but for the past 12 years he’s worked as an independent (freelance) journalist.

Markham has written about England's Jurassic Coast for Travel & Leisure, covered workplace culture for an HR quarterly mag, and explored Germany's transition away from nuclear energy for Vox. But most of his writing has been in the health and science space. 

Between 2014 and 2018, he wrote a weekly health column for TIME.com, which was called You Asked. Since 2018, Markham has done something similar for Medium, where he’s followed by ~350k subscribers. He’s still a frequent contributor at TIME, and he also writes regularly for the New York Times. His work has received awards from both the Society of Professional Journalists and the Maryland, Delaware, and D.C. Press Association. 

He’s originally from Detroit, but right now he lives in southeast Germany with his wife and two kids.  

Summary:

• The negative impact of routines and habits on personal optimization. 0:05
• Bethany aims to increase income by securing one more board seat.
• Markham Hyde argues in Financial Times article that routines lead to suffering, not personal optimization.
• Routines, productivity, and spontaneity in adulthood. 3:15
• Brandon: Routine-oriented, wants to package boring tasks for productivity.
• Bethany: Automate, eliminate tasks to free mental load, not create routine.
• Bethany and Brandon have different approaches to exercise and structure in their lives.
• Brandon has lived in different countries and jobs, categorizing his life by chunks of time, while now as an adult with a family, he questions whether that's possible anymore.
• Routine, spontaneity, and finding balance in life and work. 8:21
• Bethany suggests finding balance between structure and unstructured time to pursue interests and passions.
• Moderation is key to happiness, rather than being too rigid or spontaneous.
• Bethany suggests creating a routine to overcome fear and find inspiration (0:11:02)
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the balance between routine and spontaneity in business contexts (0:12:41)
• Innovation weeks in companies, with a focus on structure and culture. 14:04
• Innovation week at a company led to employee-generated ideas like preserving endangered languages using machine learning.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the success of innovation weeks at a previous company, with Bethany expressing interest in replicating the concept at her current company.
• Finding balance between routine and novelty for productivity and mental well-being. 17:31
• Markham recognizes the limitations of routines and habits, advocating for balance in life.
• Bethany appreciates Markham's contrarian perspective on habits, finding common ground in the need for balance.
• Markham: Habits can limit creativity, need variety to open up new perspectives.
• Markham: Balancing routine and novelty depends on individual comfort levels and life stage.
• Finding balance between routine and novelty in life. 22:41
• Markham: Happiness is a byproduct of engagement, not the goal of life.
• Bethany: Routine gives us a sense of control, but can lead to compulsive habits.
• Markham shares his thoughts on how to avoid boredom and stay engaged, including trying new things and mixing up his work routine.
• Markham has taken steps to address boredom by meeting with friends, working in different locations, and incorporating creative activities into his day.
• The importance of questioning routines and habits for fulfillment. 26:39
• Bethany values fun and exploration, leaving her previous career for a year of discovery.
• Markham highlights the importance of mindfulness in identifying what brings joy and fulfillment.
• Bethany: Questioned life after realizing habits were controlling it.
• Markham: Brain's engagement with new experiences creates fulfilling time.
• Brandon: Outsourcing routine tasks to free up time for high-value activities.
• Markham: Filling extra time with productive or healthy habits, rather than exploring new things.
• Work-life balance, prioritizing memories, and finding meaningful experiences. 32:51
• Bethany and Markham discuss the concept of "time travel" and how our lives are a series of experiences that we may not remember in the long term.
• They reflect on the importance of figuring out what choices to make in life to lead to a happy and fulfilling existence.
• Organizations prioritize work over personal growth, leading to employee dissatisfaction.
• Markham suggests taking breaks to give brains time to put pieces together (0:37:38)
• Markham advises focusing on what matters, bringing forward what led to joy and satisfaction (0:38:07)

In this episode, we discuss: Why does community matter for organisations? We are joined by Jaclyn Pascocello, she is the founder of Fabrik.  

We chat about the following: 

• What are the trends in people and the connections they are building and want to build?
• Where should the L&D budget be spent?
• Is it part of the company's responsibility to help foster connections that are not within the company?
• Are we at the top of a community-building hype cycle? 
• What are the optimal conditions for the hybrid worker?

References:

Jaclyn LinkedIn 

Fabrik

Biography: 

Mom + Founder of Fabrik. A driven leader with a passion for hospitality and customer experience and a proven track record of building and scaling startups. Building an IRL solution to uplift our communities and create more serendipity. Expert in creating unique and memorable consumer experiences in DTC, brick-and-mortar, hospitality, and F&B.

Summary:

• Homophobia and the story of a forgotten fashion photographer. 0:06
• Brandon and Bethany discuss life stages, London, and the BFI's LGBTQ+ film festival.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the documentary "Stonewall" and the experiences of LGBTQ+ individuals in the past.
• Loneliness in remote work and its impact on employees' well-being. 3:40
• Brandon: Loneliness crisis affects individuals, organizations, and communities.
• Bethany: Hybrid work is here to stay, but it may lead to more loneliness.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the impact of remote work on employee loneliness and the responsibility of organizations to address it.
• Software developer quit previous job due to lack of pre-existing relationships, highlighting the importance of social connections in the workplace.
• Combating loneliness in the workplace through professional connections. 9:20
• Bethany shares her personal experience of feeling unseen and lonely in her marriage, despite being physically present with her husband.
• Bethany finds it freeing to make deeper connections outside of work due to reduced risk and potential for misinterpretation.
• Brandon suggests providing financial support for individuals to join professional organizations, such as the CEO roundtable, to combat loneliness and provide emotional support.
• Building communities for professionals, both internally and externally. 13:25
• Bethany and others discuss the importance of community and connection in the workplace.
• Speaker 3: Internal community building should be supported by L&D budget, but external communities can also be fostered.
• Bethany: External communities can be monetized to help employees feel less lonely, but internal connection is also important.
• Workplace community building, employee resource groups, and customer advocacy communities. 17:40
• Organizations should focus on supporting community within the employee base through programs like mental health subsidies and employee resource groups.
• Employee resource groups provide a safe space for employees to discuss certain topics without feeling uncomfortable, and companies should prioritize this within their organizations.
• Speaker 3 highlights rise of customer communities for brands, with goals of support, feedback, loyalty, and advocacy.
• Hybrid work and community, with a focus on connection and wellness. 21:25
• Speaker 3: Hybrid work requires rethinking team gatherings, budgets for productive spaces.
• Speaker 3: Companies should provide options for employees to work in inspiring, connected places.
• Speaker 3: Being lonely is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day, and companies must address this by providing wellness programming, mindfulness, and community spaces.
• Speaker 3 recommends starting small by providing a budget for employees to join communities that resonate with them, and tracking the data to see the impact on productivity and well-being.
• Work-life balance, mental health, and community connection. 27:05
• Brandon: Importance of work-life balance for Gen X and Gen Z.
• Bethany: Mental health and balancing work and community for younger generations.
• Speaker 3: Connecting with others can combat loneliness, even for introverts.
• Bethany: Seeking meaningful connections can lead to a boost in energy and vibration.

In this episode we discuss: What are the priorities for COO’s in 2024? We are joined by Cameron Herold, he is the founder of the COO Alliance and author of the Second in Command. 

We chat about the following: 

• What are the priorities for COO’s in 2024? 
• How should we think about budgets this year? 
• How is the COO role changing?
• What are the commonalities across COO’s? 
• How do you work with a controlling CEO?
• How should a COO think about their relationship with the CEO?
• Do you have tips on how-to give good praise? 
• Is the CEO role the next step for a COO? 

References:

Cameron Herold

COO Alliance

YouTube Channel

Biography: 

Founder of the COO Alliance & Invest In Your Leaders Course

Author of Vivid Vision & The Second In Command

Meet Cameron Herold, the mastermind behind the exponential growth of hundreds of  companies. As the founder of the COO Alliance and the Invest In Your Leaders course,  Cameron is a dynamic consultant who has coached some of the biggest names in  business, including Sprint Telecom and a monarchy in the Middle East. Known as the  "CEO Whisperer", Cameron has a reputation for guiding his clients to double their  profits and revenue in just three years or less.

Cameron's entrepreneurial journey began at a young age, and by 35, he had helped  build his first two $100 million dollar companies. But his greatest achievement came as  the COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, where he engineered the company's spectacular growth  from $2 million to $106 million in revenue and from 14 to 3,100 employees - all in just  six years.

Cameron is not just a successful business leader, but also a captivating speaker. The  current publisher of Forbes magazine, Rich Karlgaard, stated "Cameron Herold is the  best speaker I've ever heard...he hits grand slams”. 

When he's not on stage, Cameron  continues to teach through his Second In Command podcast and his bestselling books,  including Vivid Vision, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Double Double, and The Miracle Morning  for Entrepreneurs.

Cameron is a top-rated international speaker and has been paid to speak in 26 countries  and on all 7 continents, including Antarctica in early 2022. He is also the top-rated  lecturer at EO/MIT's Entrepreneurial Masters Program and a powerful and effective speaker at CEO and COO leadership events worldwide.

Summary:

• Budgeting, forecasting, and scenario planning for businesses. 0:05
• Bethany Ayers is considering running for MP to advocate for cannabis legalization.
• Cameron Herold, CEO of several companies, joins the podcast to discuss priorities for a CEO in 2024.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of linking budget, revenue, and GTM assumptions in a financial model to make informed investment decisions and communicate effectively with leadership.
• Bethany agrees that this model is essential for aligning leadership with the company's situation and setting budgets based on financial forecasts.
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of a scorecard in tracking key elements of low cash flow and ensuring data integrity.
• Brandon discusses his experiment with a client, using a financial p&l tool for scenario planning and live data flow, and evaluating its effectiveness in serving three purposes.
• Leadership development, confidence building, and skills growth. 7:47
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of skills development and confidence building in organizations.
• Brandon shares a study on how CEOs are investing in generative AI and no-code automation within companies.
• Bethany praises employees for speaking up, learns to deliver constructive feedback.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss how to build confidence in oneself and others, with Brandon sharing his process of reinforcing positive qualities and achievements to build confidence.
• Cameron Herold offers insights on how to convince a controlling CEO to let go of some power, emphasizing the importance of building trust and confidence.
• How to approach CEOs with tough feedback while building trust and credibility. 14:00
• Cameron Herold suggests appealing to a CEO's sense of greed, need for praise, and avoidance of conflict to help them see the negative impact of their controlling behavior.
• Bethany waits until the CEO is ready for the conversation, using a metaphor of waiting for them to trip and fall before offering help.
• CEO priorities in a rapidly changing business environment. 16:19
• CEOs must adapt quickly to fast rate of change in business or risk being left behind.
• Cameron Herold emphasizes the need for CEOs to adapt quickly to change and grow their people's skills faster than ever before.
• Herold visualizes employees climbing two ladders simultaneously, growing their skills and confidence while expanding their network.
• Leadership development, praise, and core values. 20:36
• Cameron Herold emphasizes the importance of developing leadership skills in employees, including delegation, situational leadership, coaching, and time management.
• Herold suggests leveraging resources, such as hiring a consultant to train managers on interviewing skills, and sharing the training session with other leaders.
• Bethany asks Cameron Herold about tips on giving good praise.
• Cameron suggests leaders should catch people doing something right and praise them regularly.
• Leadership styles, CEO roles, and communication between CEOs and CFOs. 25:04
• Cameron Herold emphasizes the importance of delegating tasks to others and providing specific praise to reinforce desired behaviors.
• Bethany agrees, noting that growing a business and growing relationships share similarities in communication, collaboration, and prioritizing core values.
• Cameron Herold: CEOs and CFOs have different leadership styles and perspectives.
• Herold: Different types of CFOs emerging, matching entrepreneur's personality profile and stage of business important.
• CEO leadership, profitability, and the importance of building real businesses. 30:16
• Cameron Herold notes that CEOs tend to be strong leaders, managing multiple areas and leading other leaders effectively.
• Cameron Herold emphasizes the importance of focusing on profitability in tech companies.
• Bethany agrees and highlights the need for companies to grow real businesses with real financials.
• AI adoption, CEO evolution, and leadership skills. 34:26
• Cameron Herold: AI will create winners and losers, leverage AI to drive growth and profitability.
• Cameron Herold: CEO communities will rise, collaborate and grow like entrepreneurs did with YPO, EO, and Vistage.
• Cameron Herold, a former COO, transitioned to entrepreneurial CEO with ease due to his entrepreneurial upbringing and DNA.
• Most CEOs lack the entrepreneurial DNA and desire to be CEOs, focusing instead on growing a bigger company or a better brand.
• Leadership roles, responsibilities, and priorities in business. 39:12
• Cameron Herold: CEOs must release traditional roles, focus on vision & culture.
• Herold: CEOs have 4-5 direct reports, oversee legal, board, & culture.
• Cameron Herold emphasizes the importance of caring for employees as humans, not just as workers.
• He encourages leaders to focus on people, not just tasks, to build a successful company.

In this unique episode, Bethany Ayers and Brandon Mensinga share their personal stories. This episode is simply titled: Life Lessons. Bethany and Brandon are experienced scale-up COO’s and the co-hosts of the Operations Room. 

We chat about the following lessons: 

1. Know where you want to go
2. Lean into the fear
3. Don’t try to be somebody else
4. Focus on the job that is in front of you
5. Know your superpower
6. Accept critical feedback for what it is 
7. Leadership is about serving others
8. Find people who stretch you
9. Take opportunities when they present themselves
10. Don’t be a victim, take responsibility for your life
11. Do uncomfortable things
12. Cultivate your network
13. Be kind. Be respectful. 
14. Accept the fact that people won’t like you

Summary:

• Career goals and adaptability. 0:05
• Brandon and Bethany discuss their sleeping difficulties, with Bethany experiencing a bird phobia-related insomnia and Brandon going to a quiz night with his wife.
• Bethany struggles to fall asleep due to her bird phobia, while Brandon enjoys a UK-centric quiz night with his wife.
• Bethany Ayers shares her lesson learned from her career journey: know where you want to go, but be open to opportunities.
• Brandon Mensa adds to the discussion, emphasizing the importance of being clear on one's goals while remaining flexible and open to new experiences.
• Overcoming fear and ambition in business. 4:31
• Brandon shares his experience of struggling to land a job during an internship programme, despite applying for 10 marketing roles and interviewing 10 times without success.
• Brandon overcame his anxiety related to telephone interviews by taking small steps, such as practicing with friends and using positive self-talk, to build his confidence and land a job as a marketing specialist.
• Brandon leaned into his fear and ambition to secure a job, despite a long commute and initial discomfort.
• Leveraging his motivation and ambition, he drove himself to fulfill the potential of the company, learning to manage his fear along the way.
• Personal growth and career development. 9:37
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of embracing discomfort and being the best version of oneself, rather than trying to be someone else.
• She encourages individuals to focus on their unique strengths and skills, rather than comparing themselves to others.
• Brandon recognizes the value of his own strengths and weaknesses, and stops comparing himself to extroverts.
• Brandon takes inspiration from others' ways of working and incorporates them into his own toolkit, rather than mimicking them exactly.
• Bethany prioritizes becoming a domain expert and a practitioner in her field, focusing on the job she has and building her skills to take advantage of opportunities as they arise.
• Brandon emphasizes the importance of focusing on the job and becoming a craftsperson, with opportunities for advancement and job security following suit.
• Embracing unique strengths and work ethic for career success. 17:09
• Bethany struggles with imposter syndrome and feeling unimportant in a leadership role due to her lack of a specific functional expertise.
• Bethany highlights the importance of identifying and embracing one's unique strengths and specializations, rather than trying to be a jack-of-all-trades.
• Brandon agrees, emphasizing the value of focusing on a specific area of expertise and becoming a subject matter expert.
• Leadership lessons learned and the importance of serving others. 21:11
• Brandon was put in a leadership role he wasn't qualified for, struggled in meetings, and was told he was "terrible" by the CEO.
• Brandon took 3-4 months to accept critical feedback, work with an external coach, and rebuild himself as a leader.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of leadership being about serving others, not just personal achievement.
• A new head teacher at a primary school transforms the school's morale and engagement with their leadership, showing the power of effective leadership.
• Leadership, feedback, and personal growth. 26:17
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of leadership and career progression, with Brandon emphasizing the value of taking feedback and continuously improving.
• Bethany shares her experience with giving and receiving feedback, highlighting the importance of self-awareness and continuous improvement.
• Bethany has had two mentors in her career who provided specific feedback to help her improve, including a former BCG analyst who gave her BCG training and a sales leader who pushed her to think more critically.
• Bethany is currently seeking out mentors who will challenge her and help her reach her full potential, as she feels she doesn't have anyone in her life currently who will push her as hard as she needs.
• Career growth, responsibility, and self-reliance. 31:37
• Brandon became a market analyst for IDC and loved it, but then got a call from the CBC to talk about BlackBerry live on TV, which he initially doubted but then saw as an opportunity to showcase his skills.
• Brandon took the opportunity and did a credible job, leading to more TV engagements and growth as a communicator, highlighting the importance of seizing opportunities and taking initiative.
• Brandon and Bethany emphasize the importance of self-reliance and responsibility in personal and professional growth.
• Leadership, resilience, and decision-making in business. 35:58
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for one's function and solving problems upstream and downstream, rather than just complaining about them.
• Brandon agrees and adds that a CEO should be concerned with motivating everyone to achieve the vision, which requires taking responsibility for the team's success and working with other teams to move the ball forward.
• Brandon faced challenges in his role as VP of Product at a company in Las Vegas, feeling unhappy and undermined, but he chose to stay and turn things around, leading to a successful run at the company.
• The lesson learned from this experience is the importance of resilience, as throwing in the towel is not always the right choice, and Brandon was able to turn things around by rethinking his approach and figuring things out.
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of resilience and perspective in business leadership, and seeks outside counsel or coaching to navigate challenges.
• Networking, kindness, and relationships. 42:27
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of cultivating a network based on genuine relationships and introducing people to each other, rather than just seeking personal gain.
• Brandon shares an example of how his mentor's network has led to valuable opportunities and serendipitous connections, highlighting the power of building meaningful relationships.
• Bethany emphasizes the importance of treating people with respect and kindness, even if they're not someone you necessarily like or want to spend time with.
• She shares a lesson she's learned about being aware of how our actions and words can impact others, and not excluding people unnecessarily.
• Leadership, respect, and dealing with difficult colleagues. 48:34
• Brandon had a difficult relationship with a sales leader, initially disliking them due to personality clashes, but later recognizing their professional skills and respecting them.
• Brandon had preconceived notions about another individual, leading to a disrespectful interaction, but later developed a positive relationship after getting to know them.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of respecting colleagues, even if you don't personally like them, and how this can lead to better business outcomes.
• They emphasize that leaders should be rooted in sound principles and values, even if some people may not like them for different reasons.

In this episode we discuss: Which HRIS do I need? We are joined by Matt Bradburn, Founder & CEO of the People Collective. 

We chat about the following: 

• What are our views on Rippling? Personio? Factorial? BambooHR? HiBob? 
• What is a good vendor choice for a scaling company of a few hundred people that wants something that is very customisable? 
• What is a good all-in-one vendor choice that is good at employee engagement and for UK companies supports international expansion into the US? 
• What are the “gotchas” when buying an HRIS?  
• What is the hidden, dark secret of all employee engagement tools? 
• What is a good vendor choice for a mid-market ATS? 
• What is a good vendor choice for compensation? 
• Which products are really exciting for 2024?

References:

HRIS vendor evaluation

• Rippling
• HiBob
• Factorial
• Personio
• BambooHR

Other HRIS vendors mentioned

• CharlieHR
• Humaans
• ATS vendors
• Ashby
• Pinpoint
• Workable
• Greenhouse
• SmartRecrruiters

Other products mentioned

• Sana Labs
• Pando
• HarrietHR

Biography: 

Matt is a globally recognised People and Talent leader. Through his work as the founder at People Collective, he's helped over 150 companies shape forward thinking people and talent strategies to scale sustainably.  

Passionate about how talent shapes business outcomes, he loves to discuss the best ways to help employees reach their full potential.

He previously led People Ops at Peakon prior to their exit to Workday. 

Summary:

• Healthy eating habits and vegetable subscriptions. 0:05
• Bethany is trying a new vegetable subscription service called Odd Box, which delivers a random mix of fruits and vegetables each week.
• Bethany is not excited about the included cauliflower and tuna, but is looking forward to trying new vegetables during the summer.
• HRIS options for a 100-person company. 3:02
• Bethany is frustrated with the lack of great options for HRIS systems, especially for smaller companies.
• Brandon has a utilitarian experience with Rippling, with a cluttered drop-down menu and limited performance review functionality compared to other HRIS systems.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss their experiences with Rippling, a HR platform founded by former Zenefits employees.
• Rippling's sales process was qualified and thorough, but the product did not appeal to Brandon due to its utilitarian nature.
• HR software options for employee experience. 7:28
• Hi, Bob has a mature talent module with performance reviews, goals, and check-ins, making it a strong choice for employee experience.
• Hi, Bob's org view module is a visualization tool for headcount planning, but it's only available for enterprise companies with 200+ employees.
• Brandon gives Bamboo HR a rating of 4.5 out of 5, praising their sales engagement experience but criticizing their basic performance and ATS modules.
• Bethany notes that Bamboo HR's pricing is high and their product is trying to eat up the market, but their sales experience is professional and crisp.
• HR software options for a small business. 13:03
• Bamboo HR's reporting and custom field functionality was frustrating for the speaker, with delayed responses from the customer success team and limited flexibility.
• Bethany suspects a churn issue at a company, possibly due to Hi Bob's functionality and Personnel's focus on being an all-in-one solution.
• Personnel aims to differentiate themselves from Hi Bob and other competitors by offering a modern and progressive product with a focus on employee experience.
• Brandon and Bethany discuss HR software options, with Persona and Factorial being the main focus.
• Factorial is positioned as an all-in-one solution with a focus on finance and operations, while Persona is seen as a more utilitarian option with a better user experience.
• HR tech stack for scaling companies. 20:18
• Bethany and Brandon discuss HR tech stacks, with Brandon providing insights on various products and their pros and cons.
• Bethany describes her experience with bamboo HR, expressing frustration with its limitations and lack of good analytics, and Brandon agrees that it's not the best option for scaling companies.
• HR software for mid-market companies with limited options. 22:38
• Matt Bradburn is frustrated with Bamboo's prescriptive performance module, wanting more flexibility in choosing what to assess.
• Matt recommends Humans for an employee data layer that's easy to manipulate and connect to other software, making life easier.
• Matt Bradburn recommends using Hi, Bob as a mid-market HR platform due to its ease of use, reasonable performance, and ability to download Excel files for analysis.
• Matt Bradburn advises reducing HR tools to the bare minimum to achieve a loved stack, citing Lattice and Deel as examples.
• ATS and employee engagement tools. 27:49
• Matt Bradburn shares insights on employee engagement tools, revealing their limitations and the need for more prescriptive actions.
• He highlights the importance of using AI to improve employee engagement, rather than just measuring it.
• Matt Bradburn prefers Ashby, Workable, or SmartRecruiters for ATS, citing ease of use and new features.
• He believes these options are the most popular and well-regarded in the market, with Greenhouse being the most expensive option.
• HR tech trends and product strides in 2024. 32:07
• Matt Bradburn is impressed with summer laps' learning creation landscape, particularly their multi-threaded approach to onboarding and sales.
• He also appreciates Panda's performance development, which connects employee journey to career growth, and Harriet HR's ease of access to HR information through Slack.
• Matt Bradburn notes that Rippling, a CRM system, is great for US-focused companies with international employees, but lacks customization for US benefits.
• Matt Bradburn hears anecdotal evidence of frustration with Rippling among European users, including those who experienced difficulty with European SAS compliance.
• HR tech consolidation and customization. 36:33
• Matt Bradburn discusses the challenges of creating a comprehensive HR platform that meets the needs of various countries and legal requirements, while also providing customization options for users.
• Matt Bradburn and others discuss the Goldilocks problem of finding an HR platform that is not too rigid or too fluid, but rather just right for the user's needs.
• Matt Bradburn: Too many Workday implementation consultants on LinkedIn, making it hard to find accurate data.
• Bethany: Consolidation is needed in the compensation space, but no one has a good product vision for a single tool that does everything.
• HR tech, security, and due diligence. 40:46
• Matt Bradburn: Security and corruption are top concerns when buying an ISS solution.
• Bethany: Integration and customization are crucial, but vendors may not deliver on promises.
• Matt Bradburn advises businesses to prioritize simplicity and due diligence when selecting technology.

In this episode we discuss: What does a good COO framework look like? We are joined by Simon Wakeman, former COO of TPXimpact and creator of the B3 Framework. 

We chat about the following: 

• Are investment bets the responsibility of the COO? 
• What is an operating model? 
• What is minimum viable governance? How much process is too much process? 
• How to best manage a risk register to make it useful
• What is in the “systems” box? 
• How do you structure data teams? 
• What are some practices around cadences? 

References:

• B3 Framework
• Simon Wakeman

Biography: 

I help founders in post-seed and series A technology businesses to scale their operations and create resilient organisations. 

I’ve created and used the B3 framework® to enable businesses with 25 to 250 people to successfully grow at pace. 

Before becoming an independent interim COO, consultant and advisor I held senior operational leadership roles in two scaling technology businesses. The first - a digital business - I led from 15 people / £1.6m revenue to 40 people / £3m revenue. The second - a technology and design business - grew from 361 people / £31.5m revenue to 700 people / £83m in around three years. 

My career experience includes co-founder, MD, COO and non-exec director roles in growth companies, including successful exits across listed and privately held businesses.

Summary:

• Creating high-performance companies with a CEO framework. 0:06
• Brandon and Bethany discuss their spouses' reactions to their podcast, with Bethany's husband being surprised by her comment that being married is not part of her identity.
• They welcome Simon Wakeman, former CEO of TI px impact, as their guest to discuss his B three framework for building highly performant organizations.
• Brandon M: Foundation layer of CEO framework includes why do we exist, what do we do, and how do we do it.
• Bethany: Operating model definition lacks clarity, with inconsistent examples across companies.
• Brandon M: Building the organisation layer, decision making is hard due to changing business structures and roles, but it's critical for scaling companies to codify decision-making processes and delegate responsibility.
• Bethany: Finance models are useful for making calculated risks and investment bets, but they need to be holistically thought through with the CEO and leadership team to ensure the right forecast model is created for cash burn and expectations management.
• Business framework for scaling startups. 7:16
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of data ownership and security in business, with Bethany emphasizing the need for a "Source of Truth" and data security foundations to support data-driven decision-making.
• Bethany highlights the importance of data in decision-making, emphasizing that even small amounts of data can be valuable for directional insights.
• Bethany and Brandon discuss the four layers of their framework, including cadence and communications, leadership, performance, processes, systems, and standards.
• Operating models and their importance in business. 11:32
• Simon Wakeman defines operating model as a blueprint for turning strategy into reality, focusing on how to source customers, deliver value, and partner with others.
• Bethany seeks clarification on operating model, which Simon explains as a high-level summary of how a business creates value, turning strategy into a functioning business.
• Simon Wakeman emphasizes the importance of creating a clear and concise operating model for businesses, which should describe how the company creates value on a single page.
• He suggests using a template to help structure the operating model, but notes that the level of detail and complexity will depend on the type of business and its stage of growth.
• Organizational governance and decision-making. 16:02
• Simon Wakeman: Distributed team was deliberately chosen for tech business to address resourcing challenges.
• Minimum Viable Governance means legal duties of directors, policies, and risk management processes for coherent functioning.
• Simon Wakeman: Governance should push autonomy and decision-making to the edges of the organization, with appropriate safeguards to ensure competency.
• Bethany: Too much process can stifle innovation, emphasizing people's brains and good decisions over rules is key.
• Governance in scaleups, risk management, and crisis communications. 21:11
• Brandon M and Bethany discuss governance in scaleups, focusing on risk management and crisis communications.
• Risk management, systems ownership, and data quality in business. 22:58
• Bethany suggests identifying the right people to engage in risk management, such as critical thinkers like herself and structured thinkers like the CFO or ops director.
• Simon Wakeman agrees that these individuals are often the ones who take the lead in risk management and convene groups to do the hard work.
• Simon Wakeman emphasizes the importance of understanding and owning technology in a business, particularly in the early scaling phase, to avoid messy systems architecture and inconsistent data.
• He highlights the need for a clear data model to underpin the business and integrate systems effectively, particularly as AI and augmentation technologies become more prevalent.
• Simon Wakeman suggests a more decentralized approach to ops, with greater autonomy for people, but also a governing framework to ensure coherence and value creation across the organization.
• Simon believes tech leadership should own providing data and capabilities, while CFO should define user needs and bring together quality information for decision-making.
• Creating a cohesive business system through meetings and alignment. 29:16
• Bethany and Simon discuss the importance of cadence in organizations, including recurring meetings, to align teams and create a sense of unity.
• Simon Wakeman emphasizes the importance of understanding how different parts of a business are linked together and making deliberate choices about how to structure and run the business.
• He encourages listeners to regularly review and adjust their business systems as the company grows to maintain balance and coherence.