Butch Walker has spent decades at the summit of the music industry, producing multi-platinum records for icons like Pink, Katy Perry, and Green Day while fronting his own high-energy solo tours. Yet, despite reaching that peak, he found himself "climbing the hill" so intently that he had forgotten to look at the view, leading to burnout and a desire to step back. In this conversation, we explore the courage required to dismantle an ego-driven path in favor of a soul-driven one, and finding unbridled joy in the simple act of being a "sponge" for new inspiration.

In This Episode:

• Butch Walker
• John Legend
• 'The Real Frank Zappa Book'
• Train
• Taylor Swift
• Bad Bunny
• Kendrick Lamar
• Desmond Child

Go Deeper:

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The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron's work.
• More about Michaela Anne's work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

Kathleen Edwards has been releasing records for over 20 years on labels such as Rounder and Dualtone, she is critically acclaimed by NPR, The New York Times, The New Yorker, and Rolling Stone, and has worked with Jason Isbell, Bon Iver, John Doe, Marren Morris. We talk to Kathleen about winning the lottery, quitting as an ego reset, why musicians are the bottom of the food chain, finishing on a positive, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Kathleen Edwards
• Ken Yates
• Allison Russell
• Stephen Wilson Jr
• Ep 126 - Yancey Strickler
• Kahlil Gibran

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Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
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• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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UMAW (the United Musicians and Allied Workers) is a labor organization that 'Aims to organize music workers to fight for a more just music industry and to join with other workers in the struggle for a better society.' Their campaigns include Fair Pay at SXSW, #MyMerch (raising awareness of venues taking an unfair cut), Justice at Spotify, and probably most prominently, The Living Wage For Musicians Act sponsored by Rep Rashida Tlaib in the US Congress currently. We talk with a representative from UMAW - Damon Krukowski (a working musician, and a founder of late 80's indie rocker band Galaxie 500) about who UMAW is, what they are fighting for, and how we can all join the fight.

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Links:

• UMAW
• Galaxie 500
• ‘Why Sound Matters’
• Ep 126 - Yancey Strickler
• AFM
• SAG-AFTRA
• Living Wage for Musicians Act

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Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Chely Wright has sold over 1.5 million records with 90s country anthems like "Single White Female" and "Shut Up and Drive," she released her landmark autobiography, "Like Me" in 2010, becoming the first mainstream country star to come out, and forcing open conversations about LGBTQ identity, after a 10 year absence she returned to The Opry in 2019, released another book 'My Moment' in 2022, and has since pivoted to the corporate world where she is now an SVP. We talk with Chely about this pivot and giving ourselves permission to innovate, consulting your 90 year old self, Ellen's brutally honest advice on losing it all when Chely first came out, manifesting vs reality and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Chely Wright
• 'Like Me: Confessions of a Heartland Country Singer'
• 'My Moment'
• Mountain Stage
• ISS
• Ellen
• Ep 16 - Rodney Crowell
• Jean Smart
• Mare of Easttown
• Wayne Kirkpatrick
• Ep 100 - Rosanne Cash
• Peter Gomes

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Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Jim Keller started in the music industry as part of Tommy Tutone, writing the hit '867-5309/Jenny', then the bands career sank and he left performing, landing as an assistant and then manager for Phillip Glass, Nico Muhly, Ravi Shankar, and others, before 'retiring' and returning to making music by hosting jam sessions with members of The Black Crowes, Levon Helm's band, The Beach Boys, The Wallflowers, The Lumineers, and more. We talk to Jim about the realities of 'crashing and burning', the business and creative divide, the power of honesty, knowing your role, showing up, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Jim Keller
• Tommy TuTone
• Adam Minkoff
• Tony Leone
• Nonesuch Records
• Ep 46 - Mary Chapin Carpenter
• Ep 16 - Rodney Crowell
• Philip Glass
• Byron Isaacs
• Chris Masterson
• Nico Muhly
• Rachel Portman
• Audley Freed
• Lilly Winwood

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Max Wanger is an LA-based photographer who has shot the likes of Taylor Swift, Mandy Moore, Blake Mills, Glen Hansard, Madison Cunningham and past guests of ours Lucius, The Watson Twins, and The Milk Carton Kids, as well as Conde Nast Traveler, Virgin Records, Vans, Nike and many many more. We talk to Max about listening to the lull, doing jobs that pay the bills while protecting play and soul in the work, imposter syndrome, admitting what you don’t know, and how vulnerability deepens community, the long arc of following what makes you happy, and so much more.

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Links:

• Max Wanger
• 24x24
• 25x25
• Ep 124 - AJR

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Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Raye Zaragoza has released 4+ records all independently, toured as Tigerlily in the Broadway touring version of Peter Pan (updated for indigenous representation by Native American playwright Larissa FastHorse), wrote the music for the Netflix series 'Spirit Rangers', and has placed songs in a substantial number of TV shows from Greys Anatomy to Station 19. We talk to Raye about the toxic hustle narrative in music and how to unlearn it, listening to your intuition vs. listening to the industry, decentralizing how you identify as an artist, running a successful and supportive Patreon community, and so much more.

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Links:

• Raye Zaragoza
• Román Zaragoza
• Spirit Rangers
• Peter Pan broadway
• Brandi Carlisle
• Julia Michaels
• Patreon
• Ep 111 - J Edward Keyes

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Kris Delmhorst has released 12+ records independently and via Signature Sounds, has written/performed and recorded with Mary Gauthier, Lori McKenna, Grant Lee Phillips, Peter Wolf (lead singer of J. Geils Band), and more, is critically acclaimed by The Boston Globe, LA Times, Pop Matters, and all your favorite songwriters, and has written for tv & film, as well as countless festivals all over the world. We talk with Kris about creative cycles, retreating, and the necessity of disappearing to make real art, trusting your career through slow seasons, motherhood versus touring, sustaining a two-songwriter household, reframing art as a service rather than ego, and so much more.

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Links:

• Kris Delmhorst
• Ep 14 - Mark Erelli
• Ep 60 - Lori McKenna
• Ep 26 - Katie Pruitt
• Jeffrey Foucault
• Greg Brown
• Ep 123 - Dave Haus
• Nowhere Else Festival

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Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Will Hoge has released 13+ albums both independently and on major labels (Atlantic), has been nominated for Grammy, ACM, and CMA awards, and has toured with NEEDTOBREATHE, Jason Isbell, Lisa Loeb, Sugarland, Michelle Branch and others. We talk to Will about the emotional and professional fallout of writing politically charged songs, the role of parenting in shaping artistic courage and empathy, the difference between surviving the industry and making meaningful art, burnout, staying human, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Will Hoge
• Red Wanting Blue
• Ep 21 - Alice Gerrard
• Atlantic Records
• Ep 125 - Josh Radnor
• Ep 106 - Wilder Woods/Bear Rhineheart
• Ep 123 - Dave Haus
• Garry Tallent

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Malin Pettersen is a Norwegian singer-songwriter and Spellemannprisen winner (Norwegian Grammy), who has released multiple solo records as well as records with her band, Lucky Lips, has toured extensively throughout Europe and America, and has been acclaimed by Rolling Stone, Forbes, No Depression, Paste and even Iris Dement is a fan. We talk with Malin about the illusion of success, cultural duality between Norway and America, the Norwegian government's support for artists,  embracing uncertainty, doubt, and struggle, and so much more.

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Links:

• Malin Petterson
• Ep 123 - Dave Haus
• Darling West
• Ep 69 - Lilly Hiatt
• Jansen Records
• Ep 128 - Flyte
• Ezra Klein x Ta-Nehisi Coates conversation
• “Just Kids” - Patti Smith

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.