The episode in which we ask the expert all the questions about AI and making music, as it stands today: what can AI actually do? What is it going to be able to do next month? Next year? How do we retain rights? How do you ethically train AI models? Is our work safe? Is it protected? Are musicians done? What about AI bands eating up the streaming money? Drew Thurlow is the former SVP of A&R at Sony Masterworks, Director of Artist Partnerships at Pandora, and part of the A&R/marketing team at Nonesuch Records, and is currently the founder of the Lone Wolves Community - a music business and tech community and think tank, is founder of Opening Ceremony Media where he consults on AI strategy and more to companies such as RocNation, and has a book coming out in 2026 titled, “Machine Music: How AI is Transforming Music's Next Act."

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Links:

• Drew Thurlow
• Lone Wolves Community
• Ep 111 - Bandcamp Editorial Director J Edward Keyes
• Ep 109 - Major Jackson
• Tiesto
• Velvet Sundown
• Timbaland's AI label
• Suno
• Anthropic
• Justin Tranter

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Maia Friedman is a solo singer/songwriter, as well as a member of The Dirty Projectors and Coco. We talk with Maia about the ingrained narrative of climbing the endless ladder, mothering while on the road, balancing the needs and the desires of parenthood and career, the economics of touring, navigating schedules in a dual artist-parent household, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Maia Friedman
• Coco
• Dirty Projectors
• Mountain Stage
• “Song of the Earth”
• Felicia Douglass
• Phil Weinrobe
• The Legend of Ochi

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Leslie Mendelson is a Grammy nominated songwriter from New York City, a favorite of Jackson Browne and Jakob Dylan, she released her first record on RykoDisc before moving to releasing the past 4+ independently. We talk about self sufficiency in the music industry, learning to record yourself, the lack of female representation in the industry especially on the production/engineering end of the spectrum, the gear buying fallacy, combating perfectionism, and more.

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Links:

• Leslie Mendelson
• Royal Potato Family
• New School for Performing Arts
• Steve McEwan
• Rykodisc
• Ep 1 - Aaron Lee Tasjan

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

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Tammy Rogers is a founding member of Grammy-winning bluegrass band The SteelDrivers, a founding partner of Dead Reckoning (which is credited as being an early champion of 'americana' music), and is also a storied session musician, touring and recording with the likes of Reba McEntire, Patty Loveless, Trisha Yearwood, The Jayhawks, Buddy Miller, Matraca Berg, Eric Church, Jim Lauderdale, Todd Snider, amongst many others. We talk with Tammy about the importance of the musician's union and collective bargaining, flexibility and rolling with the ups and downs and changes, saying yes to as much as possible early in your career, road versus studio work, collaboration to cover weaknesses, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Tammy Rogers
• The Steel Drivers
• Jeff King
• Patty Loveless
• Trisha Yearwood
• Dead Reckoning Records
• Dean Miller
• Ep 7 - BJ Barham/American Aquariam
• Kieran Kane
• The O’Kanes
• Reba McEntire
• Musician’s Union
• Nashville Songwriters Association International (NSAI)

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Carissa Potter is an artist, author, podcast host (Bad at Keeping Secrets), one of AdAges 24 Most Inspiring People of 2021, and is the founder of People I've Loved - which is found in over 600 stores globally and featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Boston Globe, Martha Stewart Living, Create Magazine, New York Times, Teen Vogue, Real Simple. Carissa has worked with ICA in Boston, BAM/PFA, SFMOMA, De Young Museum, CCA, The Body Shop, Anthropologie, The Color Factory, Urban Outfitters, The Hammer, & Pinterest to name a few. We talk about containing multitudes, social practice, the power of showing up in-person, cultivating through inconvenience, universal basic income and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Carissa Potter
• People I've Loved
• Bad at Keeping Secrets
• Ep 105 - Darren Thomas Magee
• Ep 77 - Madi Diaz
• Needles and Pens
• Ann Patchett
• “Sapiens” - Yuval Noah Harari
• “Homo Deus”

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Johnnyswim, the duo Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, have been releasing records since 2008, have played The Tonight Show (Leno edition), and the Late Late Show, NPR's Tiny Desk and All Things Considered, their song is the theme to Fixer Upper on HGTV, they've had two TV series chronicling their life (Home on the Road, and The Johnnyswim Show, both on Magnolia Network), they've written and published a book titled "Home Sweet Road: Finding Love, Making Music, and Building a Life One City at a Time", and are currently working on a new creative outlet that we discuss here. We talk with Amanda and Abner about staying curious in our pursuits, creating space for wonder and childlike-ness, how to rejuvenate yourself and your creativity on the run, the blinders of fixation, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Johnnyswim
• “Home Sweet Road”
• Home on the Road
• The Johnnyswim Show
• The Staircase
• Britten Newbill
• Ep 73 - Edwin McCain
• Rickey Minor
• Donna Summer

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Drew Holcomb has released over a dozen records since 2005, independently as well as through Dualtone Records and with Thirty Tigers, on top of popular performances and records with his wife, songwriter Ellie Holcomb, he has toured and written with John Hiatt, Los Lobos, Susan Tedeschi, Avett Brothers, Lori McKenna, Natalie Hemby and others, and he started a subscription record store called Magnolia Record Club which he sold to Dualtone in 2018. We talk to Drew about expensive mistakes both he and Michaela have learned through the years, balancing scheduled creative time and spontaneously chasing the muse, while being gentle with yourself when life gets in the way of it working out, getting clear answers (yes OR no), decision points, considering the audience in the creative process, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Drew Holcomb
• Ellie Holcomb
• Sound Emporium
• House of David
• Bring a Trailer
• Rick Rubin
• Ep 100 Rosanne Cash
• Dualtone Records
• NEEDTOBREATHE
• Cayamo
• Ep 106 - Bear Rinehart/Wilder Woods

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

J Edward Keyes is a journalist with bylines in Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, SPIN, Entertainment Weekly, Village Voice, and who is now the Editorial Director at bandcamp. As an online record store, and music magazine (bandcamp daily), bandcamp is a central hub to the independent music industry (they pay out 82% of their revenue, versus less than 70% at Spotify, et al). We talk with J Edward about sustain, advocating, and growing a vibrant independent music industry and the unique lane bandcamp has carved, "record store" trends, the role of journalism and music advocates, we as the question - do artist's even need a publicist?? And a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Bandcamp
• Bandcamp Daily
• Berlin R&B Scene
• Experimental Italian Pop Scene
• Word Bookstore (Brooklyn)
• WXPN
• “The Song Machine - Inside the Hit Factory”
• Ace of Base

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Greta Morgan is a founding member of The Hush Sound, touring with Fallout Boy when she was still a teenager, releasing records via Fueled By Ramen, before moving on to being a touring member of Vampire Weekend and performing with Jenny Lewis. After contracting long Covid she developed spasmodic dysphonia - a neurological voice disorder characterized by involuntary spasms of the muscles in the voice box. I.E. it is nearly impossible to sing. After writing nearly 350,000 words in journals, she turned her work into a book - "The Lost Voice" (out now via Harper Collins). We talk with Greta about this life altering change, and it's effects on her creativity and creative practice, our evolving identity coming from self, not from others or our output, the worthiness shadow, acceptance, longevity, and more.

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Links:

• Greta Morgan
• “The Lost Voice”
• Kahlil Gibran - “The Prophet”
• Ep 96 - Maggie Smith
• The Hush Sound
• Fallout Boy
• Vampire Weekend
•  Spasmodic Dysphonia
• Michelle Zoner - “Crying in H Mart”
• Suleika Jaouad - “Between Two Kingdoms”
• Harper Collins
• Ep 27 - Mary Gauthier

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Major Jackson is a poet, author, and professor who is the recipient of fellowships from Guggenheim Foundation, National Endowment for the Arts, Academy of American Poets, Fine Arts works Center in Provincetown, and the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard, he has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the Arts, and the Witter Bynner foundation in conjunction with the Library of Congress, awarded the Pushcart Prize, has been published in American Poetry Review, the New Yorker, Paris Review, Orion Magazine, is an elected member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and serves as the Poetry Editor of The Harvard Review, and is the Gertrude Conaway Vanderbilt Chair in the Humanities and Director of Creative Writing at Vanderbilt University. We touch on stewardship, curiosity being emblematic of being human, art in a time of upheaval, human expression, AI, art monsters, and a whole lot more.

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Links:

• Major Jackson
• Ep 96 - Maggie Smith
• Parnassus
• Peabody Institute
• Robert Frost
• Philadelphia Museum of Art
• Marcel Duchamp
• “A Love Supreme”
• Ezra Klein & Rebecca Winthrop - ‘Rethinking Education’
• Humanities Tennessee
• Michaela Anne - “Is This What Mama Meant?”
• Hunter S Thompson
• Michael Ruhlman

Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.

Social Media:

• The Other 22 Hours Instagram
• The Other 22 Hours TikTok
• Michaela Anne Instagram
• Aaron Shafer-Haiss Instagram

All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.