The Other 22 Hours

GRAMMY-nominated songwriter and author Mary Gauthier, whose songs have been recorded by everyone from Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton to Boy George and Jimmy Buffett, joins us for a deeply resonant exploration of life, survival, and craft. Starting her songwriting journey at age 40 after a successful career as a chef and restaurant owner, Mary offers a deeply grounded perspective on what it means to build a long-haul artistic life.

Originally aired in August 2023 as Episode 27, we are revisiting this favorite conversation from our archive to unpack her 33-year journey in recovery, the necessity of patience in art and persistence in business, and how songwriting serves as a container for processing trauma and bridging human divides.

In This Episode:

• Mary Gauthier
• Songwriting With Soldiers 
• 'Saved by a Song: The Art and Healing Power of Songwriting'
• Ep 152 - Matraca Berg
• Ep 43 - Gretchen Peters
• Beth Nielsen Chapman
• Liz Rose
• Patty Griffin
• Neko Case

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

This week, we dive into our archives for this special reissue of our conversation with GRAMMY-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, activist, and chef Ruby Amanfu. Known for her profound collaborations with H.E.R., Brandi Carlile, Alicia Keys, and Beyoncé, Ruby has navigated the highest peaks of the music industry while fiercely protecting her inner peace. In this episode, we explore the structural collisions that force us to speak our truth, the reality of reclaiming your identity outside of financial validation, and what happens when we finally release our death grip on how we thought our lives would look.

In This Episode:

• Ruby Amanfu
• Sam and Ruby
• Porter’s Call
• Andy Little
• MusiCares
• Lee Ann Womack
• Willie Nelson
• Love Rising Concert

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

What happens when creative people stop looking for a seat at the table and build a table of their own? For generations society has treated an artist's life as an economic sideline, a romanticized piecemeal struggle. Today, we are witnessing a structural revolution. With Colorado recently passing the nation's first Artist Corporation legislation (the Colorado Artist Company Act) in June 2026, we are reissuing our definitive conversation with the architect of that very movement, Yancey Strickler.

As the co-founder of Kickstarter, Metalabel, and the Artist Corporations Foundation, Yancey has dedicated his life to equipping creators with the structural tools to act as real entrepreneurs. In this expansive conversation, we trace the line between blue-collar artistry and private equity, explore why the industry trades meaning for convenience, and look closely at how interdependent networks can finally break the cycle of artistic exploitation.

In This Episode:

• Yancey Strickler
• A-Corps
• Colorado Legislation, June 2026
• MetaLabel
• The Creative Independent
• Hipgnosis
• Nirvana
• The Royal Alberta Advantage
• Ep 68 - Evan Honer
• “All The King’s Men”
• Virgil Abloh
• Bentoism
• CS Lewis - “The Inner Ring”

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

We often treat our creative identities like lanes, fearing that branching out looks like simple dilettantism. This week, we explore the delicate balance of identity and creative output with singer-songwriter Hrishikesh Hirway, the brilliant mind behind hit podcasts The West Wing Weekly and Home Cooking, as well as the globally-acclaimed Netflix series and podcast 'Song Exploder,' which features the likes of Paul McCartney, Billie Eilish, REM, and Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Despite a decade of monumental success in the podcast and broadcast worlds, Hrishikesh found himself battling a quiet, profound depression born from leaving his primary identity as a singer-songwriter behind. He recently returned to music with his first album in 15 years and joins us for a beautifully tender conversation on breaking through a 10-year writer's block, navigating the vulnerability of cold-calling collaborators, and learning to sit comfortably within a "queer divine dissatisfaction."

In This Episode:

• Hrishikesh Hirway
• Song Exploder (Podcast / Netflix Series)
• Alison Russell
• Linda Ronstadt
• Talking Heads
• The Band
• The Grateful Dead
• Bob Dylan
• Phil Weinrobe
• Ep 117 - Maia Friedman
• Jeff Tweedy - How to Write One Song (Book)
• Carl Jung / Depth Psychology
• The West Wing Weekly (Podcast)
• Home Cooking (Podcast)
• Samin Nosrat
• Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat (Book)
• Josh Malina
• Allison Janney
• Jenny Owen Youngs
• Yep Roc Records
• John Mark Nelson
• Matt Ross Spang (Memphis TED Talk)
• Agnes de Mille
• Martha Graham

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.



Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

What does it mean to inhabit a creative life when that container itself changes? We sit down with GRAMMY-nominated, multi-platinum crossover superstar Amy Grant. Having shaped the landscape of pop and contemporary Christian music for over four decades, Grant found herself navigating an unexpected wilderness following a series of medical setbacks – including a traumatic bike accident – and a rewritten relationship with her own processing speed. In this soulful, luminous conversation, she explores the deliberate art of slowing down, the creative sanctuary of "Craftopia," and why she now views aging not as a loss of identity, but as a continual invitation to let go.

In This Episode:

• Amy Grant
• Vince Gill
• Eagles
• Mac McAnally
• Jimmy Buffett
• Coral Reefer Band
• Barefoot Republic
• NPR’s Wildcard podcast
• Ray Charles
• Cicely Tyson
• Roots (miniseries)
• Franklin Graham
• Viktor Frankl
• Man's Search for Meaning
• Gene Miller
• Dr. Jim Netterville
• Suleika Jaouad

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.



Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

How do you build a sustainable life around your art when the traditional definitions of success feel increasingly narrow? In this conversation, we sit down with musician, songwriter, and educator James Gardin. While his joyous, infectious music has found a global audience through major sync campaigns for brands like Apple, Tommy Hilfiger, and Saks Fifth Avenue, James’s core creative philosophy is anchored in something much more grounded: community, education, and the refusal to second-guess the spark. Together, we explore the nuts-and-bolts realities of the licensing world, the absolute humility required to teach songwriting to eight year olds, and how letting go of the industry's arbitrary rules allows us to finally blaze our own paths.

In This Episode:

• James Gardin
• Lizzo
• Marshmello
• J Dilla
• Proof
• Elzhi
• Slum Village
• Liza Garza
• Def Poetry Jam
• SZA
• Chance the Rapper
• Marmoset
• Musicbed
• iSpot.tv
• TuneFind
• Western States Center
• Eric Ward
• All of the Above Hip Hop Academy
• Trails End Camp
• Brooklyn Philharmonic
• Sinners
• Ryan Coogler

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

It is easy to look at a lifetime spent traveling on a tour bus in a famous family and assume the creative path was completely clear. We sit down with GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter and guitar player Lukas Nelson ('A Star Is Born,' Promise of the Real, Neil Young) for an incredibly honest conversation about moving past the shadow of his father Willie Nelson's towering legacy, and detangling his identity from the cliched drug-induced creative culture. We explore the distinct clarity that arrives with sobriety, the physiological realities of keeping your body moving on the road, and how treating musical discipline like Olympic training allowed him to fully claim his own voice. It’s a masterclass in boundary setting, honoring the natural muse, and discovering that a long-term commitment to your health and your relationships is the ultimate engine for creative longevity.

In This Episode:

• Lukas Nelson
• Promise of the Real
• Willie Nelson
• Merle Haggard
• Lady Gaga
• Promise of the Real
• Neil Young
• Paramount Theater
• Red Clay Strays
• Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia
• Willie's Remedy
• All Things Must Pass

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

"We write to find out who we are." For over six decades, Judy Collins has been a pillar of American music: from GRAMMY awards, platinum records, and Oscar nominations, to writing 8+ books and landing her first No. 1 album at 80 years old.

But behind the staggering accolades is an artist who still treats her craft as a sacred, daily blue-collar job. In this conversation, we explore the quiet discipline of her daily routines, the sanctuary of her 48 years of sobriety, and what she calls the "secret channels of songs." Judy shares her philosophy on processing grief through poetry, the necessity of maintaining community in a solitary profession, and turning off the noise to protect the soul.

In This Episode:

• Judy Collins
• “Catcher in the Rye”
• J.D. Salinger
• Antonia Brico
• Mark Ruffalo
• “Spotlight”
• Hemangioma
• “The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll” - Bob Dylan
• Ep 100 - Rosanne Cash
• Ep 16 - Rodney Crowell
• Telluride Bluegrass Festival
• Jo Stafford
• Barbara Allen
• Al Kooper
• Al Grossman

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

What does it mean to treat music not as a commodity, but as a multi-generational way of life? We sit down with father-daughter side musicians Cranston and Annie Clements. Cranston, a cornerstone of New Orleans music history, has played guitar with royalty like Dr. John, Allen Toussaint, and Irma Thomas. His daughter Annie is a bass player for massive acts including Sugarland, Maren Morris, and Hootie & the Blowfish.

The duo brings a unique perspective on lineage, structural hurdles, and the profound beauty of side musicians' journeys. Annie shares her vital advocacy work supporting motherhood in the music industry, including working to correct the stark lack of childcare infrastructure in touring. Meanwhile, Cranston details his wild roots in the 1960s counterculture and how a single performance could dismantle a lifetime of prejudice. It is a study on what it truly means to be a "joy facilitator."

In This Episode:

• Annie Clements
• Cranston Clements
• Ep 151 - Rob Moose
• Dejan’s Olympia Brass Band
• Tuesday Night Rodeo Club
• Maren Morris
• Doja Cat
• Joy Oladokun
• Bad Bunny
• Motorhead
• Dr John
• Boz Scaggs
• Maria Muldaur
• “A Uterus is a Feature Not a Bug” - Sarah Lacy
• Lucinda Williams
• Angine de Poitrine

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

We often look at an artist's career through the lens of industry accolades: the tours, the streaming numbers, the awards. But what happens when you intentionally dismantle your creative ego to build something focused entirely on collective liberation? Heather Mae is an award-winning independent artist, the founder of Singing Resistance Nashville, and a prominent voice in organized musical activism. Following a viral arrest at the Tennessee Capitol while protesting anti-trans legislation, Heather sits down with us to discuss the profound impacts of communal singing, navigating trauma as a neurodivergent and queer creator, and how to balance radical empathy without completely burning out. It’s an expansive, deeply human conversation about moving past the modern traps of artistic productivity to discover what it truly means to be of service.

In This Episode:

• Heather Mae
• Ysaye Barnwell
• Sweet Honey in the Rock
• The Song School (Planet Bluegrass)
• National Organization for Women
• Singing Resistance Nashville
• Tennessee Equality Project
• Melody Walker
• Justin Jones
• Gloria Johnson
• WMOT
• "Just More Love"
• Alex Pretti
• Folk Alliance
• Chris Matthews
• Etta James
• MusiCares
• Music Health Alliance
• Carl Jung
• Ep 97 - Fancy Hagood

Go Deeper:

• Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.
• Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
• Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Hosts:

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).

• More about Aaron’s work.
• More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Credits: 

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.