The Peter Attia Drive

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Walter Green is a remarkable philanthropist, mentor, author of This Is the Moment!, and founder of the impactful "Say It Now" movement. In this episode, Walter delves into the unique insights gained from his challenging upbringing, discusses embracing mortality, and highlights the mindset of "finishing strong." He shares insights on intentionality, thinking in reverse, saying "no," prioritizing relationships, and the essence of focusing on others. The conversation focuses on the "Say It Now" movement, which stresses the importance of expressing sentiments to loved ones well before the end of life.

We discuss:

• How Peter and Walter met through Ric Elias [2:45];
• The unique perspectives and life lessons provided by Walter's challenging childhood [5:30];
• Walter's harrowing experience with a sudden mental breakdown and his subsequent recovery with the help of therapy [11:15];
• A diverse professional journey ending in great success [18:15];
• The birth of a movement: celebrating friendships through public tributes and expressing gratitude to those who have shaped your life's journey [22:30];
• Intentionality, thinking in reverse, saying "no", and other guiding principles for Walter [30:00];
• Walter's global journey of gratitude on his 70th birthday: visiting friends and creating memorable experiences [39:15];
• The profound impact of acknowledging and expressing gratitude for the people who contribute to our lives [46:15];
• The key elements for creating meaningful connections and cultivating deep, authentic friendships [52:15];
• The "Say It Now" movement: the inspiration behind the remarkably impactful initiative [58:30];
• What "finishing strong" means to Walter [1:07:30];
• Finding peace at the end of life through expressing gratitude and finding purpose in serving others [1:16:00];
• Resources to learn about "Say It Now" [1:26:15]; and
• More.

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Stuart McGill is a distinguished professor emeritus at the University of Waterloo and the chief scientific officer at Backfitpro Inc. where he specializes in evaluating complex cases of lower back pain from across the globe. In this episode, Stuart engages in a deep exploration of lower back pain, starting with the anatomy of the lower back, the workings of the spine, the pathophysiology of back pain, and areas of vulnerability. He challenges the concept of nonspecific back pain, emphasizing the importance of finding a causal relationship between injury and pain. Stuart highlights compelling case studies of the successful treatment of complex cases of lower back pain, reinforcing his conviction that nobody needs to suffer endlessly. He also covers the importance of strength and stability, shares his favorite exercises to prescribe to patients, and provides invaluable advice for maintaining a healthy spine.

We discuss:

• Peter's experience with debilitating back pain [3:30];
• Anatomy of the back: spine, discs, facet joints, and common pain points [14:45];
• Lower back injuries and pain: acute vs. chronic, impact of disc damage, microfractures, and more [24:45];
• Why the majority of back injuries happen around the L4, L5, and S1 joints [31:00];
• How the spine responds to forces like bending and loading, and how it adapts do different athletic activities [36:15];
• The pathology of bulging discs [43:15];
• The pathophysiology of Peter's back pain, injuries from excessive loading, immune response to back injuries, muscle relaxers, and more [46:00];
• The three most important exercises Stuart prescribes, how he assesses patients, and the importance of tailored exercises based on individual needs and body types [56:15];
• The significance of strength and stability in preventing injuries and preserving longevity [1:08:15];
• Stuart's take on squats and deadlifting: potential risks, alternatives, and importance of correct movement patterns [1:19:30];
• Helping patients with psychological trauma from lower back pain by empowering them with the understanding of the mechanical aspects of their pain [1:30:00];
• Empowering patients through education and understanding of their pain through Stuart's clinic and work through BackFitPro [1:39:00];
• When surgical interventions may be appropriate, and "virtual surgery" as an alternative [1:46:45];
• Weakness, nerve pain, and stenosis: treatments, surgical considerations, and more [1:55:30];
• Tarlov cysts: treatment and surgical considerations [2:00:15];
• The evolution of patient assessments and the limitations of MRI [2:02:15];
• Pain relief related to stiffness and muscle bulk through training [2:07:00];
• Advice for the young person on how to keep a healthy spine [2:14:15];
• Resources for individuals dealing with lower back pain [2:25:30]; and
• More.

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Andrew Huberman, professor of neurobiology at Stanford University and host of the Huberman Lab podcast, returns for another special journal club episode. Andrew introduces an observational study investigating the influence of light exposure on circadian clock regulation and its link to mental health, while Peter covers a phase III clinical trial employing immune checkpoint inhibitors for the treatment of metastatic cancer. They delve into the essential findings of their respective papers, elucidate the reasons for their enthusiasm, and tackle potential limitations and unanswered questions. Additionally, they provide valuable insights into their approaches for comprehending research studies, aiding listeners in independently navigating this process.

We discuss:

• The intricate relationship between light exposure, circadian rhythms, and mental health [3:30];
• The importance of low solar angle sunlight, and other types of light needed for optimal mental and physical health [12:00];
• Promising new lightbulb technology that simulates low solar angle sunlight [17:45];
• The significance of both darkness and the need for direct light exposure to the eyes, specifically [20:00];
• Some tips and advice regarding optimizing light exposure, blue blockers, and effects on circadian rhythm [22:15];
• Andrew presents a paper which suggests avoiding light at night and seeking light during the day is associated with better mental health [25:45];
• Examining the data: the negative impact of increasing nighttime light exposure and the positive effects of daytime light exposure [34:30];
• Statistical analysis: the importance of focusing not only on statistical significance but also clinical relevance, power analysis, error bar range, and more [45:45];
• Takeaways from the study of daytime and nighttime light exposure [49:45];
• The practicalities of minimizing light exposure and screen time at night, the use of sleep trackers, and overall challenge of modern, indoor lifestyles [55:15];
• Potential limitations of the light exposure study, reverse causality, and the complex interplay of variables in epidemiological studies [1:06:00];
• A tangent on diet soda and sugar substitutes as an example of reverse causality [1:13:15];
• Andrew and Peter's take on the causality vs. correlation of light exposure to mental health, the damage of circadian disruption, and the interpretation of observational data [1:17:30];
• A primer on the immune system as background for the paper Peter chose [1:25:00];
• Background on cancer: causes, how it evades the immune system, and the logic behind immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy [1:35:45];
• Peter presents a paper on immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy in cancer patients [1:50:15];
• Unpacking the results of the checkpoint inhibitor trial [1:59:45];
• Other noteworthy observations, including the differing results between males and females [2:15:30];
• Adverse effects resulting from treatment with an immune checkpoint inhibitor targeting CTLA-4 [2:20:00];
• Why melanoma is especially responsive to immunotherapy, and the remarkable success story of immunotherapy for pancreatic cancer [2:25:15];
• Why immunotherapy may be the most important hope we have for treating cancer [2:35:30];
• Avoiding melanoma: the sunscreen debate, sunburn as the biggest risk factor, and more [2:38:45]; and
• More.

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In this "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) episode, Peter delves into the crucial topic of exercise, starting with the importance of having a goal in training, including how and why Peter uses the goal of training for the "Centenarian Decathlon" when structuring his training plans. Peter elaborates on how to identify deficient areas within the four pillars of exercise and guides listeners on incorporating periodization training for optimal improvement and training variety. The episode explores diverse case studies, offering insights into tailored workouts for individuals of various training backgrounds, from seasoned enthusiasts to complete beginners. Additionally, Peter tackles the universal issue of emotional stress and its impact on training, as well as how exercise can help manage stress and how to determine when training should be adjusted during a high-stress period.

If you're not a subscriber and are listening on a podcast player, you'll only be able to hear a preview of the AMA. If you're a subscriber, you can now listen to this full episode on your private RSS feed or our website at the AMA #55 show notes page. If you are not a subscriber, you can learn more about the subscriber benefits here.

We discuss:

• Overview of exercise topics [2:15];
• Importance of training with a goal in mind, the Centenarian Decathlon, and the natural decline of fitness with age [4:00];
• The four pillars of exercise [12:15];
• Measuring peak aerobic output with VO2max, and the importance of VO2max as a predictor of longevity [16:45];
• Measuring aerobic efficiency with zone 2 [25:45];
• Measuring and tracking muscle mass and strength [27:30];
• Case study of a fit person with a neglected pillar: why adding more training volume may not the best strategy [30:30];
• Periodization training: what it is and why it is beneficial [36:15];
• Periodization case study: high cardio fitness, lacking muscle and strength [40:00];
• Periodization case study: adequate muscle, low cardio fitness [44:45];
• Case study: significant improvement needed across all exercise pillars [48:45];
• Best ways to do zone 2 exercise and how to use relative perceived exertion (RPE) to find your zone 2 level [56:30];
• How the body responds to physical and emotional stress, its impact on training, and the consequences of chronic stress [1:01:00];
• The difference between "good" stress and "bad" or chronic stress [1:10:30];
• The complex relationship between exercise and stress, and the importance of adjusting exercise goals during high-stress periods [1:13:30];
• Clues that stress may be impacting your training [1:19:15];
• The use of wearables and devices for tracking trends and making decisions related to training [1:21:00];
• Parting thoughts regarding the importance of exercise for longevity and stress management [1:32:00]; and
• More.

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Bestselling author Michael Easter returns to The Drive to discuss his new book, Scarcity Brain. In this episode, Michael explores the evolutionary backdrop that molded human beings, a setting characterized by scarce food, limited information, and few possessions. He contrasts that with the modern era, marked by abundance and comfort, and the ensuing repercussions on our physical and mental well-being. Michael introduces the concept of the "scarcity loop," a three-part behavior cycle which helps explain modern challenges such as overeating, addiction, gambling, and materialism, and offers practical strategies to break free from its cycle. The episode culminates in a thought-provoking exploration of happiness, drawing on Michael's experiences with monks and underscoring the value of boredom, exploration, and discomfort as transformative elements that elevate awareness, presence, and the will to live.

We discuss:

• Inspiration for Michael's latest book, Scarcity Brain [2:15];
• Evolutionary adaptations to the scarcity of food contrasted with the modern obesity crisis [4:00];
• Lessons learned about diet and nutrition from living with hunter-gatherers [9:30];
• The impact of ultra-processed foods on energy balance [20:30];
• Michael's experience with attempting the hunter-gatherer diet at home [27:30];
• The roots of excess: factors that contribute to overeating and the varied vulnerabilities among individuals [34:00];
• The scarcity loop: how components of the scarcity loop are illustrated in gambling and addiction [39:45];
• Using knowledge of the scarcity loop to break the cycle [50:45];
• The evolutionary drive to acquire material possessions [58:15];
• The benefits of boredom and value of exploration [1:07:00];
• The consequences of an attention economy driven by negativity bias [1:16:30];
• Navigating the world of endless information and the value in "slow information" [1:23:00];
• Defining happiness, and the downward trend in reports of happiness [1:33:00];
• Purpose, austerity, self-reliance and other missing elements of happiness gleaned from the study of monks [1:38:30];
• The value in uncomfortable activities that increase your awareness, presence, and will to live [1:48:45]; and
• More.

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James Clear is the author of the New York Times bestseller Atomic Habits. His extensive research into human behavior has helped him identify key components of habit formation and develop the "Four Laws of Behavioral Change." In this episode, James provides insights into how both good and bad habits are formed, including the influence of genetics, environment, social circles, and more. He points to changes one can make to cultivate more perseverance and discipline and describes the profound impact habits can have when tying them into one's self-identity. Finally, James breaks down his "Four Laws of Behavioral Change" and how to use them to create new habits, undo bad habits, and make meaningful changes in one's life.

We discuss:

• Why James became deeply interested in habits [2:00];
• Viewing habits through an evolutionary lens [6:15];
• The power of immediate feedback for behavior change, and why we tend to repeat bad habits [9:30];
• The role of genetics and innate predispositions in determining one's work ethic and success in a given discipline [14:45];
• How finding one's passion can cultivate perseverance and discipline [23:30];
• Advantages of creating systems and not just setting goals [29:30];
• The power of habits combined with self-identity to induce change [36:45];
• How a big environmental change or life event can bring on radical behavioral change [50:45];
• The influence of one's social environment on their habits [54:30];
• How and why habits are formed [1:00:45];
• How to make or break a habit with the "Four Laws of Behavior Change" [1:09:45];
• Practical tips for successful behavioral change—the best strategies when starting out [1:16:30];
• Self-forgiveness and getting back on track immediately after slipping up [1:30:45];
• Law #1: Make it obvious—Strategies for identifying and creating cues to make and break habits [1:40:00];
• Law #2: Make it attractive—examples of ways to make a new behavior more attractive [1:48:00];
• Law #3: Make it easy—the 2-minute rule [1:59:00];
• Law #4: Make it satisfying—rewards and reinforcement [2:03:45];
• Advice for helping others to make behavioral changes [2:06:15]; and
• More.

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Colleen Cutcliffe is an expert in molecular biology and co-founder of Pendulum Therapeutics, a company working to develop treatments for a variety of diseases by targeting the microbiome. In this episode, Colleen delves into the complexity of the microbiome, how it is tested, and how it changes over time. She explores how probiotics, prebiotics, and postbiotics affect the gut and makes a compelling case that well-developed products have the potential not only to enhance gut health but also to positively influence overall metabolic well-being. Colleen emphasizes the significance of a high-fiber diet in sustaining a thriving gut microbiome, shares insights on minimizing microbiome damage during antibiotic use, provides tips for fostering and preserving a healthy gut, and much more.

We discuss:

• Colleen's background and current focus [4:45];
• The basics of the microbiome [7:15];
• The study of the human microbiome [15:15];
• Categories of bacteria, and the implications on health of the rapid evolution of bacteria [19:45];
• Methods for measuring and understanding the microbiome, and key indicators of microbiome health [28:30];
• The important role of fiber for promoting gut health through the production of butyrate [38:30];
• The case for manipulating gut bacteria via fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) [45:00];
• Dynamics of the microbiome: the gut-brain connection and how antibiotics, nutrition, stress, and more impact the microbiome's diversity and function [50:15];
• Factors that influence the vaginal microbiome [55:15];
• The effect of gut microbes on obesity and challenges with fecal transplants in people [58:45];
• Beneficial strains of gut bacteria and strains commonly found in probiotics [1:01:15];
• The difference between a probiotic and prebiotic, and how CFUs are a measure of the "active ingredient" [1:09:45];
• Considerations about how probiotic strains are produced, and more on the meaning of CFU [1:14:15];
• Mitigating the effect of antibiotics on the microbiome [1:22:30];
• What do we know about the effect of artificial sweeteners on the gut microbiome? [1:30:00];
• Why Akkermansia is a keystone strain with implications for metabolic health and an individual's response to dietary interventions [1:36:15];
• The essential steps necessary to develop a robust probiotic for optimal health support [1:45:45];
• How Akkermansia helps control blood glucose, and potential implications of Akkermansia in weight loss, diabetes management, and more [1:48:45];
• Pendulum Therapeutics' commitment to rigorous product develop [2:06:30];
• Details about the probiotic "Glucose Control" and other probiotics developed by Pendulum Therapeutics [2:13:00];
• Further studies of Akkermansia that have been proposed or are underway [2:20:30]; and
• More.

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In this "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) episode, Peter tackles essential questions about magnesium, beginning with the important roles it plays in the body and why maintaining proper levels is crucial. Peter discusses the harms of magnesium deficiency, how to determine if you're deficient, potential causes of deficiency, and how diet and supplementation can be used to increase magnesium levels. Peter unravels the confusion surrounding magnesium supplementation, discussing the optimal forms and recommended daily intake while addressing concerns about excess consumption. He also explores the potential cognitive and sleep benefits associated with magnesium supplementation. Finally, Peter concludes with a look into his recent experimentation with new exercises to serve as benchmarks to assess his progress and fitness levels as he navigates the aging process.

If you're not a subscriber and are listening on a podcast player, you'll only be able to hear a preview of the AMA. If you're a subscriber, you can now listen to this full episode on your private RSS feed or our website at the AMA #54 show notes page. If you are not a subscriber, you can learn more about the subscriber benefits here.

We discuss:

• The important roles of magnesium in the body [2:45];
• How to determine if you might be deficient in magnesium [10:15];
• Addressing migraines related to low magnesium [14:45];
• The prevalence of magnesium deficiency [16:30];
• Various conditions and drugs that can negatively impact magnesium levels [21:30];
• Magnesium-rich foods and factors that impact absorption of magnesium [24:30];
• Daily targets for magnesium supplementation and whether it's possible to take too much [30:15];
• The different forms of supplemental magnesium [34:00];
• How absorption of magnesium from food compares to absorption from supplements [36:15];
• Choosing the right magnesium supplements for optimal absorption [37:15];
• The unique ability of magnesium L-threonate to increase brain magnesium concentration [40:15];
• Potential cognitive benefits of magnesium [43:00];
• Potential sleep benefits of magnesium [48:45];
• Takeaways on magnesium and a look into Peter's personal protocol [53:15];
• Peter's new benchmarks related to exercise and age [58:30]; and
• The potential impact of hearing loss on brain health and neurodegeneration [2:04:30]; and
• More.

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Richard Miller is a professor of pathology and the Director of the Center for Aging Research at the University of Michigan, as well as a previous guest on The Drive. In this episode, Rich provides an update on the exciting work of the Interventions Testing Program (ITP), an initiative designed to assess potential life-extending interventions in mice. Rich covers the notable successes like rapamycin, 17⍺-estradiol, and acarbose as well as notable failures like nicotinamide riboside, metformin, and resveratrol, providing valuable lessons about the intricacies of the aging process. Rich delves deep into aging biomarkers and aging rate indicators, unraveling crucial insights into the science of geroprotective molecules. Additionally, Rich discusses some surprising successes of recent molecules tested by the ITP and concludes with an optimistic look at future frontiers, including bridging the gap from mice to humans.

We discuss:

• An overview of the Interventions Testing Program (ITP) [3:45];
• How the mice used by the ITP are superior for research relative to mouse models used in most research [11:15];
• Design of ITP studies, outcomes tested, and metrics of interest [19:00];
• The process and challenges of drug formulation for mice [30:00];
• Four drugs identified by the ITP that extends the lifespan of mice [36:30];
• The success of rapamycin and what it tells us about the biology of aging [43:15];
• Other measures of healthspan evaluated by the ITP in stage 2 studies [50:45];
• Distinguishing aging rate indicators from biomarkers of aging [57:30];
• Aging rate indicators identified through the examination of slow-aging mice [59:15];
• Why proteomics are essential to understand changes in the cell [1:12:15];
• Unraveling aging rate indicators: dose-effect, duration, and future frontiers [1:21:45];
• A closer look at aging rate indicators: bridging the gap from mice to humans [1:27:00];
• What do laboratory mice die from? [1:38:45];
• Distinguishing between a drug that improves an age-sensitive outcome and a drug that improves all aspects of aging [1:42:00];
• The ITP study of 17⍺-estradiol: mechanisms of life extension and surprising sex differences [1:43:30];
• Unsuccessful drugs studied by the ITP: resveratrol, metformin, and nicotinamide riboside [1:51:30];
• Over-the-counter successes in the ITP: meclizine and astaxanthin [2:01:00];
• A senolytic drug, fisetin, fails to extend lifespan [2:07:00];
• Can targeting senescent cells slow aging? [2:13:00];
• Optimism about future findings [2:16:30]; and
• More.

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Arthur Brooks is a social scientist, professor at Harvard University, columnist for The Atlantic, and bestselling author. In this episode, Arthur returns to the podcast to discuss his new book, Build the Life You Want. He delves into the nuanced concept of happiness, differentiating between momentary feelings and overall wellbeing. He explains the importance of understanding one's personality pattern with respect to positive and negative emotions in order to better self-manage emotions. He delves into the three key elements of happiness, offering practical strategies for enhancing those specific domains through methods such as metacognition, transcendent experiences, discipline, minimizing self-focus while directing attention outward, and more. Through personal examples, Arthur demonstrates that one can actively track well-being levels and take intentional steps to cultivate happiness and enhance overall well-being.

We discuss:

• Happiness vs. happy feelings, and how happiness and unhappiness can coexist [4:30];
• The six fundamental emotions [8:00];
• The evolution and heritability of happiness, and the four personality patterns with respect to positive and negative emotions [17:30];
• Navigating relationships: the power of complementarity over compatibility [23:30];
• The importance of self-managing your mental habits [25:30];
• Enjoyment: one of the three macronutrients of happiness [32:00];
• Satisfaction: one of the three macronutrients of happiness [43:45];
• The reverse bucket list, metacognition, and other techniques to protect yourself from your limbic system [51:00];
• Meaning: one of the three macronutrients of happiness [57:30];
• The four quarters of your life and how that relates to the meaning of your life [1:05:00];
• Putting metacognition into practice [1:09:00];
• What might explain the societal downdrift in happiness over the last few decades? [1:17:00];
• Taking charge of your happiness: discipline, transcendent experiences, and other deliberate actions for happiness [1:30:30];
• Tracking happiness: biomarkers and micronutrients behind the macronutrients of happiness [1:42:00];
• The value in minimizing the self and looking outward [1:49:45];
• How Arthur surprised himself with his ability to improve his happiness [1:54:00]; and
• More.

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