Although it’s usually associated with teenagers, psychologists and economists have long understood that “peer pressure” is not limited to adolescence. When we grow up, we want our kids in the best schools, we want beautiful homes, cars, and weddings even though none of those things are directly related to happiness.

In his new book, economist and author Robert Frank explores how social influence is a two-way street. Our environments encourage undesirable behavior, but perhaps we can also use those environments to create positive social change. In addition to his column in the New York Times, over the past few decades, he has authored or co-authored more than a dozen books.

In this episode, we’ll hear more from Robert about collective action, behavioral externalities, and why equating economics and libertarianism is too simple.

On how libertarian ideas relate to economics:

“I think the idea that government is the root of all evil, that's not an idea that was in Smith or in any of his immediate successors. No, they were well aware that individual action leads to outcomes we don't like much of the time and it's compellingly in our interest often to intervene in those cases. We can change people's incentives to steer them towards outcomes.”

On consequences :

“It would be better if people understood that their actions have consequences for others, and it would be good too if they cared about that. But I think the main advantage I see in trying to explain how our own actions affect others in those ways is to legitimize the simple measures we can take that would encourage people to behave accordingly.”

On taking cues from others:

“Once you see behavioral externalities in one context, it sensitizes your eye, you see them in virtually every domain we inhabit. I think a simple consequence of the fact that we're always in new situations, we're always exposed to unfamiliar stimuli. And if we don't take cues from what others who know more than we do, on average we're not going to do very well adapting to the situation.”

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