What if there was a system that could decide who to consult for a decision in real time? How would the diversity of the available sources affect the information gathered?

Scott E. Page is a professor of management, social science, and complexity at the University of Michigan. He’s also the author of several books including The Model Thinker: What You Need to Know to Make Data Work for You, Complex Adaptive Systems: An Introduction to Computational Models of Social Life, and The Difference: How the Power of Diversity Creates Better Groups, Firms, Schools, and Societies.

Greg and Scott discuss the importance of diverse models and perspectives in decision-making. Scott also shares insights on the evolving nature of information access and the role of AI in augmenting diversity in team decision-making processes. The conversation covers themes like cognitive diversity, the role of selection and treatment in maintaining diverse perspectives, and the challenge of fostering a healthy organizational culture where diverse ideas can thrive.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

How do we design institutions for diversity and better decisions with AI

01:01:46: So how do we design, especially now with AI, institutions, organizations, whether they're for-profits, universities, governments, that creates, you know, better people in a way, right? We're so focused on the allocation or the decision that's being made. At the end of the day, the decisions and the allocations are going to be made by those people. So you're getting the outcome, but you're also getting the people. And how do we kind of—and to your point about the treatment—you also want those people to be diverse, right? And you want to allow them and encourage them to be learning new things. In fact, I think you do not want to solve it because you could not solve it, because it would be like social engineering. But I think you want to have some awareness that particular institutional structures and incentives of structures that you're putting in place are not necessarily creating the world you want—or are creating the world you want.

How AI’s power to curate makes culture more important than ever

28:58: We all know AI can know—these are really nice knowledge maps. But the question is: when you start linking people to the knowledge maps and start saying, ‘We can dynamically bring people into the meeting and get their feedback,’ now you’re suddenly curating. I think AI’s ability to curate, to your point, is amazing. But now, let’s pull the culture thing in. How do I not feel like a gadget? How do I not feel like some sort of widget that the AI is using? I think this is where creating the right organizational team culture is going to be really important.

Invisible forces behind organizational design

01:01:30: What comes for free, whether you like it or not, whenever I design an institutional structure and organizational structure, are the norms, the behaviors, the beliefs, the networks—all that other stuff. The kind of dark matter that really matters for society.

Why simple models fail on complex problems

07:59: If you take something like inequality, it is a complex problem, right? Or the environment. It is a complex problem. Models are simple. So there is no way you can explain something complex with something simple. You are kind of explaining a 16 with a three or something. You just cannot. If the problem is this big and your model is this big, you cannot get it all. But if you have a bunch of models in conversation with one another, then I think you can, potentially, reach a deep understanding. You could predict better, right? I think it is a better way to advance science.

How AI can bridge decision gaps across social inequality

58:12: People who come from families who are well socially connected, who have wealth, who are educated—they get good advice on big decisions that maybe other people do not get. And you can go to the internet to get advice, but you are going to get it pointing in a thousand directions. The question is: will there be ways to have—like, will banks, will others—will they develop AI that they say, “Look, okay, we are going to approve this, but why do you not, you know, use this software and go through this process? It may help you think about particular things.”

Recommended Resources:

• Keynesian Economics
• James G. March
• Markov Model
• Porter's Five Forces
• Charlie Munger
• Bayesian Statistics
• Philip E. Tetlock
• Daniel Kahneman
• John Seely Brown

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at the University of Michigan
• Wikipedia Profile
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X

Guest Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• The Model Thinker: What You Need to Know to Make Data Work for You
• Complex Adaptive Systems: An Introduction to Computational Models of Social Life
• The Difference: How the Power of Diversity Creates Better Groups, Firms, Schools, and Societies
• The Diversity Bonus: How Great Teams Pay Off in the Knowledge Economy
• Diversity and Complexity
• Google Scholar Page

Liberalism is a term that has been adopted and adapted in different ways over the centuries of its use. How do we need to rethink and communicate the core principles of liberalism in the face of modern challenges?

Helena Rosenblatt is a professor in the History, French, and Political Science departments at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York (CUNY). She is also the author of several books, including The Lost History of Liberalism: From Ancient Rome to the Twenty-First Century and Liberal Values: Benjamin Constant and the Politics of Religion.

Greg and Helena discuss the shifting meanings and history of liberalism, focusing on key themes such as the Anglo-American appropriation of liberalism, the evolution of liberal values, and the struggle between individual rights and civic virtues. Helena also touches upon the impact of religious influence, the educational system, the rise of new liberalism, and the relevance of civic education in contemporary society. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Liberalism began with character, not politics

09:10: With the advent of Christianity, we started to talk about God's liberality towards, so there was no liberalism. The noun was liberality, as you mentioned. And then it became Christianized, and it meant then charitable. And then eventually, in the 18th century, with the Enlightenment, it started to mean tolerant and sociable. A gentleman was liberal in that he was open-minded. He was polite. He was educated, and we should not forget liberal arts education. Right? So very important to liberality. And it is good to think about today when the liberal arts, we think anyway in the humanities, are under siege, if you will, you know, and people lamenting the decline of civic engagement and of qualities of a citizen—that is what the liberal arts education was supposed to teach.

Why liberalism was never meant to be direct democracy

26:00 We are for the people, and we are accountable to the people. But it is for the people. It is not by the people. Government—we are supposed to be generous. We are supposed to be thinking about them. We are supposed to rule for them, but we cannot possibly allow them to rule.

What happens when liberal face strongmen

22:00: The notion that a strongman politics, which we are seeing again today, was something that liberals became very especially concerned with because they saw what could happen when people place their faith in a strongman who appealed directly to—you know, populism is not a recent thing. They did not call it populism then? I do not think so. But this idea that I am the people, I understand the people, your so-called representatives are just, you know, in deadlock. They cannot make—they are just talking. They are just a bunch of lawyers who, you know—this is an old, very old accusation that strongmen used in order to get, very often, elected democratically, but then unravel and destroy all the safeguards that were there or were meant to be there to safeguard individual rights, for example.

Recommended Resources:

• Liberalism
• John Locke
• Thomas Hobbes
• Germaine de Staël
• Benjamin Constant
• French Revolution
• Freemasonry
• Otto von Bismarck
• Adam Smith
• Walter Lippmann
• Liberal Party
• Napoleon
• Richard T. Ely
• Friedrich Hayek
• Alexis de Tocqueville

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at CUNY
• Wikipedia Profile
• Social Profile on X

Guest Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• The Lost History of Liberalism: From Ancient Rome to the Twenty-First Century
• Liberal Values: Benjamin Constant and the Politics of Religion
• The Cambridge Companion to Constant
• Rousseau and Geneva: From the First Discourse to The Social Contract, 1749–1762

Technology is now involved in all industries, and there is a need for a critical and ethical approach to technology's development and integration into daily life for the betterment of all.

Greg M. Epstein is the Humanist chaplain at both Harvard and MIT, and also the author of the books  Tech Agnostic: How Technology Became the World's Most Powerful Religion, and Why It Desperately Needs a Reformation and Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe.

In this episode, Greg discusses the concept of humanistic chaplaincy, its historical roots, and the emergence and acceptance of humanism as an alternative to theistic religions.. Greg explains the idea that technology, specifically the tech industry, functions as a modern religion complete with its own beliefs, practices, and influence over human lives. He also discusses the potential wins and pitfalls of this new 'tech religion' and the need for a reformation akin to that of historical religious movements. They also focus on the ethical implications of tech's pervasive role in society and compare it to traditional religions. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

The belief system behind Silicon Valley

19:15: This is the myth of the Silicon Valley unicorn. You’re disruption, right? You are going to disrupt taxi cabs and you are going to get Uber and Lyft. You are going to disrupt, you know, on and on and on, right? And so, what I would say is that the religion is a religion that we actually are teaching a lot of young people today. I mean, we may not frame it as a religion, but to say that it's simply, "We're just doing an MBA, man, it's fine." Like, "We're just teaching people how to run a company." Like no, you're teaching people a very particular ideology for how they should relate to who they are as humans, how they should relate to their fellow human beings, what it is to be a good person and live a good life, and how we should structure communities. Because our entire society is structured around the whims and ideals of this religion now.

Reclaiming humanity from tech worship

30:58: The technologies that were created should be about making human lives more human and humane, not getting people to devote themselves more and more fanatically to tech, as if it were the God that demanded jealously that we worship it.

When AI becomes a god  

46:40: The biggest problem in the world today, they have been saying for years now, is not climate change or nuclear war, or the lack of ethics, or authoritarianism, or what—it's unaligned AI. And that they have been advising through their 80,000 Hours website. Effective ultras have, for years now, said that any young person wanting to do the most good should put their efforts, their life, their 80,000 hours of work—which, by the way, is a lot of work... They should put their 80,000 hours of work into making sure that this tech God that we are building likes us and, you know, likes us back, worships us back, or at least takes good care of us, as we are now becoming its flock. And that, to me, is—as bizarre as any other theological tenet I have ever read about in 30 years of feeling.

Recommended Resources:

• Humanism
• Jonathan Haidt
• Constantine the Great
• Technopoly
• Millenarianism
• Ray Kurzweil
• Elon Musk
• SMART Recovery
• Sam Altman
• Satya Nadella
• Luddite
• Effective Altruism
• Sam Bankman-Fried
• William MacAskill

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Harvard University
• Faculty Profile at MIT
• Profile on Wikipedia
• HumanistChaplaincy.org

Guest Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• Tech Agnostic: How Technology Became the World's Most Powerful Religion, and Why It Desperately Needs a Reformation
• Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe

What is the relationship between philosophy, rhetoric and law? What can we still learn from ancient Greek and Roman philosophers like Socrates and the Socratics? How is thinking like a martial art? 

Ward Farnsworth is a professor of law and former dean of the School of Law at the University of Texas at Austin. He’s also the author of numerous books that explore law, philosophy, and rhetoric including, The Legal Analyst: A Toolkit for Thinking about the Law, The Socratic Method: A Practitioner's Handbook, and The Practicing Stoic: A Philosophical User's Manual.

Ward and Greg discuss the symbiotic relationship of law and philosophy, stoicism and its modern relevance, and the value of philosophical thinking particularly through the lens of the Socratic method in legal education and at universities as a whole.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

The Socratic method isn’t just a teaching technique but a way of living and thinking

05:09: The Socratic method is a style of thinking first before it's a style of teaching or a way to talk to others. It's a style of thought. And the reason it's an effective teaching method, as far as I'm concerned, is that in the classroom, if it's used effectively, it can provide a model that you can internalize and use as a style of thought for yourself, which is important because most of us do not spend a lot of our lives engaged in real Socratic dialogue with others.  So we have the 99% of our time when we are not doing that. What's going on then? And hopefully the answer is still something Socratic. It's obviously a lot easier to do well when you've got another person doing it, because other people can see your own blind spots a lot more easily than you can uncover them. But still, in the end, I think it's trying to—the Socratic method I see as being a model for thought that, when thinking is going well, is internalized. And it's something you do yourself.

Why great lawyers need to think like philosophers

02:21: If you really want to be a great lawyer, you have got to understand something about psychology. I think you have got to be a little bit of a philosopher. You have got to understand some economics.

Legal education is about thinking like a judge

03:07: If you are doing legal education right, you are often trying to teach students how to think like a judge would, and a judge is trying to find the right answer—whatever that might mean—or the best answer. We can talk about the nature of the answers the judge searches for. But I think in a case like that, it is helpful to be thinking not as if you have a dog in the fight, but as if you are trying to discover what the best way is to resolve the case. And then if you are a lawyer, you are trying to anticipate the way the judge will think and beat that. It is also true that if you are a lawyer, you are trying to understand your case and also the other side's case. And that is a very important part of what I call Socratic thinking—being able to anticipate the response to whatever you are imagining saying or thinking, and to be good at going back and forth.

Recommended Resources:

• Socrates
• John Stuart Mill
• Daniel Kahneman
• Seneca the Younger
• Arthur Schopenhauer
• Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at the University of Texas at Austin
• Professional Website

Guest Work:

• The Legal Analyst: A Toolkit for Thinking about the Law
• The Socratic Method: A Practitioner's Handbook
• The Practicing Stoic: A Philosophical User's Manual
• Farnsworth's Classical English Argument
• Farnsworth's Classical English Metaphor 

Before the Mona Lisa became one of the most famous and beloved paintings in the world, it sat in obscurity for hundreds of years away from the public eye. During that time, no one would have considered it the timeless, classic masterpiece that it is today. How did that change? Who decides what is worthy of the title “classic” and is it possible to have classics in our modern age? 

Rochelle Gurstein is an intellectual historian, critic, and fellow at the New York Institute for the Humanities. Her latest book, Written in Water: The Ephemeral Life of the Classic in Art explores what it means for something to be labeled “classic” and how the notion of the classics has evolved over centuries. 

Rochelle and Greg discuss the historical fluidity of aestheticism and taste, the shifting perception of iconic artworks, and unearth the forgotten contributions of critics and artists who shaped our understanding of what it means for art to transcend time. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Is the world being threatened by new art?

42:07:   One of the things that I try to trace in the book is this idea that one's world is being threatened by new art, and the sense that it's not the importance—by the 19th century and the 20th century—of what is at stake. It's not just that there is another work of art in the world, or a style that has entered the world. Instead, it is that a whole sensibility, taste, worldview is under attack.

What is the strongest foundation for a classic?

52:39: The strongest foundation for a classic is when artists keep a work alive in their own practice. So that, as long as people could still see the Venus de’ Medici in the works of all the artists who took it as the exemplar, they would continue to love it because they were all part of a continuum—an aesthetic continuum, a moral continuum—that, in the 20th century and 21st century, became harder and harder to maintain, because contemporary art shifted so dramatically every 10, 20 years—every other year these days. The way that we could keep art alive from the past is: the more we know about what other people have said about it—the people who have loved it, or the people who have not loved it.

What really keeps art alive

57:00: The practice of art itself—what artists are doing, not what collectors or museums and all the rest are doing, which is, of course, important. But I do not think that that is the most important thing. I think the artist’s practice and what they are keeping alive. And then knowing enough, caring enough about the art of the past, to try to understand what their aims were, and knowing it changed over time, and that these works were loved or not loved at different moments of time—and why?

Recommended Resources:

• Raphael
• Venus de' Medici
• Joshua Reynolds
• William Hazlitt
• John Ruskin
• Studies in the History of the Renaissance by Walter Pater
• Giovanni Morelli
• Roger Fry

Guest Profile:

• Fellow Profile at New York Institute for the Humanities 
• Professional Website

Guest Work:

• Written in Water: The Ephemeral Life of the Classic in Art
• The Repeal of Reticence: America's Cultural and Legal Struggles over Free Speech, Obscenity, Sexual Liberation, and Modern Art

It’s a button most people these days don’t think twice about before clicking online: the like button. But there's no argument that the button has turned into a powerhouse of an icon, with its purpose now reaching far beyond the creators’ original intent. So, how did we get here? Why was the button originally invented, and what can its ubiquitous role online teach us about our culture?

Martin Reeves, chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute, and Bob Goodson, founder of Quid, are the authors of the new book, Like: The Button That Changed the World, which tells the fascinating story of how a tiny piece of code completely transformed the way we interact online. 

Martin and Bob join Greg to delve into the micro-history of the “like” button, including Bob’s original sketch for it when he was at Yelp, the role of serendipity in innovation, the booming business that sprang out of “likes,” and how the like button has shaped our understanding of not only online social interaction, but offline socializing as well. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

How the like button transformed online behavior

23:50 [Bob Goodson]: So when Yelp was being created, it was not obvious at all that you could get large numbers of people to contribute content, because normal people who had the opinions needed to rate restaurants and bars and doctors and so on were not really adding content to the internet.

So it was part of that wave where everyone was trying to figure out, separately and for different business reasons, how do we get people to contribute content—which is why, in some ways, it was the movement of user-generated content. And nowadays we do not think twice about it. And the Like button—really, something Martin and I cover in the book—is that the Like button really greased the wheels for that process, because it is the simplest way to contribute content to the internet. And it still is. With one click, people do not think that they are contributing content; they just think of it as something else. Like it is a type of reading almost: “I am giving my reaction.” But it is contributing content. You are putting your name on something, and you are adding data to a complex system—which is why we call it the atomic unit of user-generated content.

A button that tells a thousand words

25:46: [Martin Reeves] There is something quite brilliant and impressive about the Like button, in a way.…[26:25] It's the simplest and most compact thing you can say that is actually meaningful to others. And so, there really is something quite brilliant about the simplicity of this thing.

When a small fix becomes a big thing

04:52: [Martin Reeves]  The strangest thing about all of the pioneers of the Like button—and we spoke to about 30 companies—was that none of them saw any special significance in the day that they made their contribution. They were just addressing that day's tactical challenge. It might be voting, or content stream prioritization, or something. And it was only later that the Like button turned out to be a thing. I call it the moment when a thing becomes a thing, and then—then it becomes a big thing. But it was absolutely not a grand design. So I thought, wow, this is the perfect story of what I had long suspected about innovation, which is: it is neither as planned as the hero stories we tell about it, nor as manageable as the managerial structures and metrics and plans and goals that we put in place to manage it.

The idealism involved before social media

19:52 [Bob Goodson]: We put so much emphasis on social media now that we easily forget. Before it was possible for citizens to share information, the only way to get information out there was through these usually individually owned, massive media companies. So there was a lot of dissatisfaction about censorship and about media being controlled by only the wealthy, and so on. So there was a lot of idealism involved.

Recommended Resources:

• Episode 64 of unSILOed feat. Martin Reeves
• Max Levchin
• Pollice Verso (Gérôme)
• Don't Make Me Think, Revisited: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability by Steve Krug
• Russel Simmons 
• Super Sad True Love Story by Gary Shteyngart

Guest Profile:

• Martin Reeves’ Profile at Boston Consulting Group
• Martin Reeves on LinkedIn
• Bob Goodson’s Professional Website
• Bob Goodson on LinkedIn

Guest Work:

• Like: The Button That Changed the World

It makes sense that economic principles could be a useful guide in deciding what career to pursue, but what if they’re also the key to deciding whether to ask for a promotion, who to marry, or what house to buy? 

Daryl Fairweather is the chief economist at Redfin and the author of the book, Hate the Game: Economic Cheat Codes for Life, Love, and Work. Through the lens of behavioral economics and game theory, the book provides readers with practical strategies for navigating some of life’s biggest decisions. 

Daryl and Greg discuss how economic principles can be applied to real-life decisions, from careers to family planning, and insights into the housing market’s complexities including bidding wars, changes to how buyers’ agents are paid, and where the market might be headed. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Can exposure to economics change the way people interact?

04:31 Economics provides a really useful framework for making decisions. We have utility theory, right? So you just go with the decision that has the higher expected utility. And I do not think many people think about decisions that way. They get caught up in things like sunk cost fallacies or status quo bias. So having that understanding of both economics and the behavioral part—incorporating the psychology into it—I think allows me, and I think a lot of other, hopefully more people who read the book, to feel more confident in the decisions. I think a lot of people know what the right decision is, but they do not really have the confidence to make it because they are not really thinking through it in terms of what will maximize my utility.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game

52:06 Just because the economy is unfair, and it is unfair for a whole host of reasons—it is not all, like, nefarious reasons. Sometimes games have these inherent flaws in them…[52:28] But if you see that you can navigate around it, you do not have to hate yourself for trying to make it in this economy. You can just see the economy for what it is, and its flaws, and still try to excel at it.

The housing market needs big interventions

29:17: I think we definitely need some, some big interventions in the housing market. We've seen a lot of policy changes in California, which if California alone fixed its housing problems, it would probably fix housing problems for the entire country…[29:40] But California's problems I think are deeper than just zoning. They have Prop 13, which gives a much lower property tax rate to existing homeowners…[29:59] So, I think there's a lot that we could do to make housing better than what it is right now because it is pretty dire.

How PhDs undervalue themselves

18:41 I think where a lot of PhDs make a mistake is they do not really understand how valuable they are, and they get stuck in the first job that they went to straight out of grad school, not realizing how many other opportunities there are where they could earn just as much money, or maybe even more money, and have even broader opportunities. But they just kind of, like, stay put because they do not see that broader world around them. They are very good at taking PhD students and turning them into professionals, but then they get the benefit that most of those people hang on for a very long time and do not really go and look at what their other opportunities are, because I think if they did, they would see that they would be very valued outside of just consulting.

Recommended Resources:

• Steven Levitt
• John List
• The Art of War
• Hal Varian
• Gary Becker
• The Family Firm: A Data-Driven Guide to Better Decision Making in the Early School Years by Emily Oster

Guest Profile:

• Author Profile on Redfin
• Professional Profiles on LinkedIn, X

Guest Work:

• Hate the Game: Economic Cheat Codes for Life, Love, and Work

How can you make philosophy accessible to everyone without stripping it of essential depth and complexity? Where can philosophy take hold in diet and everyday activities?

Julian Baggini is a philosopher, journalist and the author of over 20 books about philosophy. His latest are How to Think Like a Philosopher: Twelve Key Principles for More Humane, Balanced, and Rational Thinking, How the World Eats: A Global Food Philosophy, and The Pig That Wants to Be Eaten: 100 Experiments for the Armchair Philosopher.

Greg and Julian discuss making philosophy accessible to everyone, and Julian’s latest works. Julian discusses the importance of epistemic virtue, cognitive empathy, and the challenges of integrating philosophical thinking into everyday life. They examine the role of attention in good thinking, the merits and drawbacks of various food ethics movements, and the balance between technophilia and technophobia, even coining a new term for practical wisdom in technology use.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

System change beats consumer choice

40:38: We should be a little less neurotic about, Is this clean, dirty? Is this good, bad? Try and do the right thing. But actually, it is a system change that is most important. And so the most important thing you could do as an individual is influence organizations and things you are around with. What about your school? What is your school doing for food? I mean, crikey, I am in France at the moment, and I just got the local newsletter from the school. The local schools here—they have a local chef. They give a good chef. They favor local sourcing. They are 30% organic in their ingredients. They spend three euros a day on the food for the kids. And it is—wow, that is great. Right now, in a lot of English British schools, it is terrible, and that is partly because they do not have the resources for it. So, you know, you have got a school—get your school buying the right stuff and feeding the right stuff. That is going to affect like several hundred kids, which is much more than you can affect with your shopping basket.

Why attentiveness matters in philosophy

58:15: Attentiveness is important because I think in some debates, they become scholastic in the sense that a question arises in philosophy, it gets formulated, and people go after the answers, but people are not paying attention as to why we are asking the question in the first place.

Why thinking should be a team sport

43:17: So the so-called cognitive failures we have, it shows how stupid we are. Bad we are at abstract thought. Well, that's when we try and do things privately by ourselves, and I think in general, yeah, absolutely. Thinking with others—so this has become my mantra. I actually got a fridge magnet made with this on it: Think for yourself, not by yourself. Think for yourself is important. Do not just accept what you are told.

Rethinking what it means to think well

05:20: People often think that good thinking is a technical matter. You get your training in logic; you get to analyze whether a statement is fallacious, whether the conclusion follows from the premises, et cetera, et cetera—all of which are useful skills, to be sure. But there is a whole other side of good thinking, which is to do with what we call these epistemic virtues. It describes the whole attitude you bring to your thinking.

Recommended Resources:

• Epistemic Virtue
• Bernard Williams
• Philippa Foot
• Iris Murdoch
• Friedrich Nietzsche
• William James
• Peter Singer
• The Good Son
• Fyodor Dostoevsky
• David Hume
• John Searle
• Wason selection task
• Kieren Setiya
• Daily Rituals - How Artists Work
• Onora O'Neill
• T. M. Scanlon
• Miranda Fricker
• Richard Feynman
• Phronesis

Guest Profile:

• JulianBaggini.com
• Profile on Wikipedia
• Social Profile on Instagram
• Social Profile on X

Guest Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• How to Think Like a Philosopher: Twelve Key Principles for More Humane, Balanced, and Rational Thinking
• How the World Eats: A Global Food Philosophy
• The Pig That Wants to Be Eaten: 100 Experiments for the Armchair Philosopher
• The Great Guide: What David Hume Can Teach Us about Being Human and Living Well
• How Do We Know? The Social Dimension of Knowledge: Volume 89

It may be not much to look at, but the unassuming shipping container has had a massive impact on the global economy since its invention in the 1950s. The story of its rise as the dominant form of shipping is filled with dramatic turns and insights into the explosion of globalization.  

Marc Levinson is a journalist, economist, and a former senior fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations. His books like, The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger and Outside the Box: How Globalization Changed from Moving Stuff to Spreading Ideas explore the complex economic history and unexpected impact of how goods make their way around the world. 

Marc and Greg discuss the labor-intensive nature of shipping before containerization, the union battles, regulatory hurdles, and the economic implications of adopting a standardized container. They also examine the unforeseen consequences of global supply chains and the evolving power dynamics between shippers and transporters.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

The hidden globalization behind modern trade

47:48: The value of international trade of exports and imports is really based on transactions. Okay? One party is selling something to another party, and there is a price for that transaction. But what happens when you're looking at something on the internet? You're not paying any money to do that. You're just sitting at your computer. You do not know that the server that's offering you that page on the internet is actually based in a different country. That's an international exchange. It's not—there's not a transaction. This is not recorded as international trade, but it is. It's quite common now within large companies to have research operations in several countries. The researchers talk to one another all the time. They send each other emails all the time. And those ideas have economic benefit, but they do not have value that can be captured by national statistics. So we're having a much harder time keeping track of what is going on.

The unsung heroes behind global trade

28:27: The real heroes in the container story, I think, are the engineers from the ship lines and the container manufacturers and other companies who spent 10 years literally sitting in smoke-filled rooms, negotiating over things like: How many supports should there be inside the container? How thick should the end walls be? What should the door hinges look like? All of this seems really trivial, but economically, it made a big difference to the different companies...It made a difference to the cost of the container.

How companies are rethinking trade risk

41:08: I think companies have really devoted a lot more effort in the past couple of years to understanding how their supply chains work and looking for vulnerabilities. There are a couple of basic choices that they have got. One is that they can just keep more inventory, keep more stuff in the warehouse here in the States. Well, that is costly. First, you have to pay for it, and then you have to pay to store it. And it may go out of date depending upon what business you are in. But that is one way of reducing this risk

Recommended Resources:

• Malcom McLean
• John R. Meyer

Guest Profile:

• Professional Website
• Professional Profile on LinkedIn

Guest Work:

• The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger
• Outside the Box: How Globalization Changed from Moving Stuff to Spreading Ideas
• Great A&P and the Struggle for Small Business in America

It might sound counterintuitive but digital transformation is not about technology. So, what does it mean for companies to keep up in an ever-evolving digital age? Well, according to today’s guest, it’s about having a “strategic imagination.”

David Rogers, an instructor at Columbia Business School, is an OG thinker on digital transformation. His books, The Digital Transformation Playbook: Rethink Your Business for the Digital Age and The Digital Transformation Roadmap: Rebuild Your Organization for Continuous Change, laid the foundation for an entire strategic approach to taking companies into the digital age. 

David and Greg delve deep into the misconceptions about digital transformation, emphasizing that it's not merely about technology but about strategic imagination and continuous organizational change. They discuss the evolution of digital transformation over the past decade, the importance of a well-defined strategic vision, and the roles of agile methodologies, hypothesis-driven experimentation, and cohesive leadership.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Digital transformation is about contexts

56:33: The question of digital transformation. It is not about bolting technology onto an existing company. It is about—really, it is about—how do we adapt an organization so that it can thrive in a digital context, right? The digital is actually about the context, not about what you are doing, even necessarily per se, inside the business. And to me, the most defining characteristic of the digital era is this accelerating change and accelerating and growing uncertainty that organizations have to cope with.

What makes an effective leader?

25:16: Effective leaders do not orient their job around making decisions primarily. What they are primarily trying to do is to define what truly matters, to then communicate that to others, achieve that kind of alignment and clarity that we are pulling in the same direction, and then to empower others—to enable the rest of the organization to do it.

Digital transformation is not about technology

10:28: Digital is not about the technology inside your company. It is not about the behaviors of the market and the customers. But it is more the context we are in, which is one of—not a change that happened in 1994 to 1996, or some other change. Oh, the shift to mobile. Oh, the shift to this. Let’s shift to the cloud. It is just one after another, and each wave of technology change is catalyzing the next. It is not just, “Oh, why are they each coming?” Well, each one is building on the one right before it. And so we are dealing with this pace of change and level of uncertainty; therefore, in your context, for any organization, that is unprecedented and certainly not what big organizations were built for and organized for in the 20th century.

Strategy as thinking discipline

34:39: Strategy is something you need to embed in every level of organization as a thinking discipline, which is about defining: what are we trying to achieve? What do we believe is a way—or the best way—to achieve that at this point in time.

Recommended Resources:

• James Hackett 
• Daniel Kahneman
• Praveer Sinha, Tata
• Steve Blank
• Bob Dorf

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Columbia Business School
• Professional Website
• Professional Profile on LinkedIn
• Newsletter on Substack

Guest Work:

• The Digital Transformation Roadmap: Rebuild Your Organization for Continuous Change
• The Digital Transformation Playbook: Rethink Your Business for the Digital Age
• The Network Is Your Customer: Five Strategies to Thrive in a Digital Age