The REFINE Network

Your salon has a level system, but some of your strongest stylists are stuck. Is the problem their performance, or are the requirements no longer realistic?

In this episode, Evan and Christopher look at what happens when a level system doesn’t keep up with changes in services, pricing, and the way stylists build their careers. They discuss why a high-performing artist might struggle to meet a retail target even while delivering strong service and retaining clients, and how holding that artist at the same level can limit both their earning potential and the salon’s growth.

They also explore client-count goals that don’t match the time today’s services require, how to start a conversation with your team about metrics that aren’t working, and why small, flat price increases can mean less of a promotion for your most experienced artists. If your level system isn’t helping your stylists and your salon move forward, this conversation will help you see where to take another look.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

Chapters
00:00 Concert tips and protecting your hearing
03:32 Why stylists get stuck in level systems
05:47 Is it the stylist or the metric?
07:07 Rethinking retail goals as stylists advance
08:20 How to talk with your team about changing expectations
11:42 When client count no longer matches the services
13:17 Building a career path that supports retention
14:18 Why salons need a level system
16:16 When it’s time to reevaluate yours
17:02 The problem with a $5 increase at every level
18:12 How Refine can help

If you keep hiring the same type of person and getting the same disappointing result, it may be time to take a closer look at your process. In this episode, we’re breaking down how your mindset, interview questions, onboarding, and decision-makers all influence who joins your team. We also explore why seeing potential in someone isn’t always the same as identifying the right fit.

You’ll learn how to hire around your core values, recognize qualities like humility, drive, kindness, and coachability, and protect your culture when someone isn’t the right fit. The wrong hire can cost you financially, emotionally, and culturally. Sometimes, it really is better to have no one than the wrong one.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

Chapters

00:00 What Pet Would You Choose?
02:11 Why You Keep Getting the Same Hiring Results
02:34 Changing Your Hiring Mindset
04:20 Is Your Hiring Process the Problem?
05:22 Who Should Make the Hiring Decision?
06:25 Seeing Potential vs. Seeing the Right Fit
07:09 Protecting Your Salon Culture
07:32 Interview Questions That Reveal Character
08:56 What Are Your Five-Year Goals?
10:42 Hiring Around Your Vision and Core Values
12:04 Your Team Reflects Your Leadership
14:20 Knowing When Someone Isn’t the Right Fit
15:20 Five Qualities to Look for in a New Hire
19:11 How to Tell if Someone Is Coachable
20:34 If It’s Not a Hell Yes, It’s a Hell No
21:26 Reverse the Interview Question
22:39 Take Your Leadership Further

Your color bar could be costing your salon more than you think.

In this episode, we sit down with leaders from L’ANZA and Vish to break down what’s really happening behind the color bar—from product waste and excess inventory to services that are performed but never actually charged for.

We talk about how understanding your true cost per application can uncover hidden profit, why more inventory doesn’t necessarily mean better results, and how better systems create accountability without putting the burden on your team or your guests.

You’ll also hear how technology can improve communication between stylists and the front desk, help salons charge consistently for the work they’re already doing, and turn money that was once being lost into opportunities for education, improvements, and growth.

If you’ve never taken a close look at what your color bar is actually costing you, this conversation might change the way you think about it.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

Chapters

00:00 Welcome to Talks with the Refine Network
00:07 Meet L’ANZA’s Global Artistic Director
00:30 The Story Behind Vish
01:12 What Your Color Services Are Actually Costing You
01:33 How Much Product Is Going to Waste?
02:13 Turning Color Inventory Into Profit
02:33 The Problem With Dead Stock
03:16 Setting Better Color Benchmarks
04:29 Creating Accountability at the Color Bar
05:28 Better Communication = Fewer Missed Charges
06:14 20% of Salon Services Aren’t Being Paid For
06:38 Why L’ANZA’s Model Works
07:23 The Profitability Problem in the Salon Industry
07:47 Why Technology Belongs at the Color Bar
08:26 Closing Thoughts

What happens when you intentionally invest in developing talent from the very beginning?

In this episode, you’ll hear from Chantal and Lily of ECLIPS Salon about the power of salon apprenticeship from both sides of the experience. Chantal shares what they’ve learned from 15 years of developing apprentices, while Lily gives you a look at what it’s like to learn, grow, and build confidence within the program today.

They dive into how apprenticeship can shape technical skills, salon culture, client relationships, and the confidence someone carries into their career. You’ll also hear why ECLIPS starts with the skills that allow apprentices to contribute to the team right away, how clients become part of their growth, and what it takes to stay patient when you’re still finding your footing.

Whether you have an apprenticeship program or hire through a more traditional path, this conversation is a reminder that developing great people takes intention. Give them the tools, education, confidence, and support to grow, and you’re not just preparing them to work behind the chair — you’re helping them build a career that lasts.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

CHAPTERS:
00:00 – Beauty Secrets & Hair Hacks
01:41 – The Power of Salon Apprenticeship
04:37 – Choosing Apprenticeship as a Career Path
07:17 – How Apprenticeship Supports Salon Culture & Clients
09:40 – Learning the Skills Behind the Chair
12:15 – Building an Apprenticeship Curriculum That Works
14:45 – Setting Future Stylists Up for Success
16:43 – Confidence, Patience & Building a Lasting Career
18:37 – Investing in the Next Generation

If everyone on your team agrees with you, it might be time to ask a different question. The best leaders aren't surrounded by "yes people." They're surrounded by people who care enough to challenge ideas, ask hard questions, and protect the vision—even when it's uncomfortable. In this episode, we talk about why healthy disagreement is one of the greatest assets your business can have, how to create a culture where your team feels safe speaking up, and why inviting feedback makes you a stronger leader. You'll learn: Why "yes people" can quietly hurt your business How to encourage honest feedback from your team The difference between being supportive and simply agreeable Why healthy conflict leads to better decisions How to build trust that allows people to challenge ideas If you're building a team and want better conversations—not just more agreement—this episode is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 If Your Personality Was a Condiment... 02:13 Why Great Leaders Don't Want "Yes People" 03:16 The Equity You Lose by Overpromising 04:27 Why Your Team Shouldn't Agree With Everything 06:19 The Ego Trap Every Leader Faces 08:00 How Great Teams Challenge Their Leaders 09:13 Coaching Someone Who Always Says Yes 10:30 How to Ask for Feedback (and Actually Hear It) 12:27 Trust Before Tough Conversations 13:38 Don't Mistake Silence for Buy-In 15:35 Creating a Culture of Honest Feedback 17:16 Pressure-Test Big Decisions Before They Go Live

Building a successful salon doesn't always mean you're charging the right prices.

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Michelle Rouser of 40 Volume Salon to unpack what happened after taking her team through REFINE's SCALE program. Together, they discuss the importance of understanding your numbers, creating pricing strategies backed by data instead of assumptions, and involving your leadership team in major business decisions.

They also explore how transparency builds trust, why team buy-in matters, and how strong systems help salons grow with confidence instead of guesswork.

Whether you're questioning your pricing, leading a growing team, or simply trying to make smarter business decisions, this conversation offers practical insights into building a healthier, more sustainable salon.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

00:00 Intro & Icebreaker
03:00 How 40 Volume Got Its Name
05:00 Why Great Leaders Don't Make Big Decisions Alone
08:15 When to Listen... and When to Lead
12:00 The Moment the Numbers Changed Everything
15:40 The Hidden Cost of Guessing Your Prices
19:30 Pricing With Confidence Instead of Fear
21:20 How to Get Your Team Bought In
24:50 The Leadership Skills That Matter Most
29:25 Is SCALE Worth It?
31:30 Final Thoughts

One of the hardest leadership moments you'll face as a salon owner is when an employee gives notice and asks to stay for a few more weeks.

Do you let them finish out their schedule?
Do you ask them to leave immediately?
How do you protect your team, your culture, and your business while still treating people with respect?

In this episode, Christopher and Evan discuss the factors every leader should consider before making that decision. They cover employee posture, relational equity, setting clear boundaries, protecting the team that's staying, and why reacting emotionally can lead to poor leadership decisions.

Every situation is different, but having a framework for navigating these conversations can help you lead with confidence instead of emotion.

Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, salon culture, business growth, and building a healthier company through theREFINEnetwork.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

00:00 – What's Not Working in the Salon Industry?
03:37 – Should You Let an Employee Stay After Giving Notice?
05:03 – The First Things Leaders Should Consider
06:11 – Why Employee Posture Matters
08:18 – When Letting Someone Stay Actually Works
09:10 – Protect the Team That's Staying
09:51 – Setting Clear Expectations and Boundaries
10:34 – Questions Every Exit Conversation Should Include
12:17 – Don't Make Emotional Decisions
13:59 – Exit Interviews and Leadership Lessons
15:01 – Why Growth Sometimes Means People Leave
17:09 – When It's Time to End the Transition Early
20:18 – Why Community Makes Better Leaders

What helps some stylists grow faster than others?

It's not just technical skill.

In this conversation from ABS Chicago, Ruthie and Alondra of Silver Salon share the mindset shifts that have shaped their careers in just two years behind the chair.

They talk about building a strong foundation before chasing every new opportunity, creating unforgettable client experiences, receiving feedback without becoming defensive, and why self-awareness might be one of the most important skills a stylist can develop.

Whether you're new behind the chair or years into your career, this episode is a reminder that lasting growth comes from staying curious, coachable, and committed to learning.

If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe for more conversations on leadership, culture, business, and personal growth in the beauty industry.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

00:00 If You Could Only Keep One Thing...
02:31 First Impressions of ABS Chicago
03:13 Lessons on Client Experience & Consultations
05:04 What Builds Client Retention?
07:36 Enneagram Strengths & Blind Spots
11:08 When Should Stylists Learn Extensions?
14:23 Advice for New Stylists
15:17 Why Feedback Is a Gift
19:35 Communication, Growth & Self-Awareness
21:03 The Power of Knowing Yourself
22:29 Final Thoughts

In this episode, Erin Silver shares what happened when she went through SCALE for a second time and why the experience landed differently than it did the first time.

Erin opens up about stepping fully into her role as an owner, uncovering financial realities that were limiting her salon's growth, and using data to create greater clarity and buy-in across her team. The conversation explores pricing, profitability, leadership development, delegation, and the importance of moving beyond a stylist mindset to lead a business effectively.

Erin also shares how investing in her own growth as a leader has impacted her team, strengthened her culture, and created opportunities for people at every stage of their careers.

Whether you're a salon owner, leader, or aspiring entrepreneur, this episode offers practical insights on building a stronger, healthier business through intentional leadership and financial clarity.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

00:00 Running Shoes, Magnesium & TikTok Shop
03:03 Why SCALE Hit Differently the Second Time
03:56 Thinking Like an Owner Instead of a Stylist
04:37 The Numbers That Were Holding Us Back
05:19 Pricing Services with Data, Not Guesswork
07:13 How to Get Team Buy-In
10:42 Developing High-Performing Salon Teams
11:29 Stop Micromanaging and Start Leading
13:41 Why Leaders Need to Be Visible
15:19 The Belief Shift That Changes Everything
16:27 What Every New Salon Owner Should Do First
18:24 Final Thoughts

What does it actually feel like to go through a major salon pricing shift?

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Megan from Mercer Hair Studio to talk about her experience going through SCALE and the emotional reality of raising prices as a stylist.

From anxiety and overthinking to confidence and clarity, Megan shares what it looked like to navigate pricing changes inside a growing salon, communicate those changes to clients, and confront the internal fear of wondering if she was truly “worth” more.

The conversation dives into:
- The mindset challenges behind price increases
- What SCALE implementation actually felt like
- Fear of losing loyal clients
- Communicating pricing with confidence
- The connection between pricing and self-worth
- Building financial stability behind the chair
- Growth culture inside Mercer Hair Studio

If pricing conversations make you uncomfortable or you’ve ever questioned your value as a stylist, this episode offers a real and honest perspective from someone who went through it firsthand.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale

📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):
Search “The Refine Network” in your app store

📸 Follow us on Instagram:
@therefinenetwork

Chapters

00:00 – ABS Chicago, Packing Styles & Enneagram Talk
02:29 – Meet Megan from Mercer Hair Studio
03:10 – Megan’s First Reaction to SCALE
04:08 – Building Her Career & Moving to South Carolina
05:06 – Growing a Diverse, Fully Booked Clientele
06:26 – Operating at 110% Behind the Chair
07:47 – Implementing SCALE Inside the Salon
08:29 – “Am I Worth This New Price?”
09:24 – Learning How to Talk About Price Increases
10:49 – What Actually Happened After Raising Prices
11:48 – Financial Freedom & Charging More
13:01 – Advice for Stylists Struggling With Pricing
14:13 – Growth Culture at Mercer Hair Studio
15:43 – Letting Go of Scarcity & Fear
17:00 – Final Thoughts & Outro