In this engaging episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Julia Frank to discuss their collaboration on the newly revised edition of 'Persuasion and Healing,' a groundbreaking book on the science and philosophy of psychotherapy originally written by Julia’s father, Jerome Frank. The book has shaped generations of psychotherapists—including Bruce himself—and remains one of the most influential works in the field. Bruce and Julia delve into the rich history behind the seminal work, Jerome Frank’s unique background, the evolution of psychotherapy research, and the critical role of myth and ritual in therapeutic outcomes. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the fundamental principles that underpin the effectiveness of psychotherapy across various approaches.

Julia Frank, M.D. is emeritus faculty at the George Washington University School of Medicine, director of the Five Trimesters Clinic for pregnant and postpartum women, and co-author of the 2025 edition of 'Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy.’ Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is a leading psychotherapy researcher, developer of the contextual model of psychotherapy, and co-author of ‘The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work.’

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan.

Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License.

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