The Running for Real Podcast

There are four cardinal virtues recognized by almost all of the world's philosophies: courage, temperance, justice, and wisdom. Ryan Holiday examines the first in his latest book, Courage is Calling: Fortune Favors the Brave. His other books include the bestselling Stoic trilogy of The Obstacle is the Way, Ego is the Enemy, and Stillness is the Key. He has a popular newsletter and podcast, The Daily Stoic, and on top of all that, he's a runner! On today's episode we talk about philosophy, running, and how they intersect.

Seneca talks about this word euthymia, which basically he defines as tranquility, but his definition is that it's when you have the sense of the path that you're on and you're not distracted by the paths that crisscross yours.

Seneca was speaking about a basis of human life goals, but it can apply at any level, including being disciplined in your running. Years ago Ryan was out on the track when someone came alongside him, "and now all of a sudden we're racing for no reason. And I remember thinking, he has no idea how long I've been here; he has no idea how long I ran to get here. Why are we in this pointless competition with each other to prove nothing to nobody?" Ideally, we should do whatever we're doing and not be concerned with what others are doing. Ryan says that as a runner, "just because someone else is there, just because someone comes up behind you, just because someone is twenty paces in front of you, to be able to tune that out and just focus on what you're trying to do, to me is the key part of the discipline of running."

The Stoics would say that anything you do out of compulsion is not good. I kind of see it as of all the things to be compulsive about, this is probably one of the least bad.

Another discipline of running is consistency, which can slip over into compulsion. Ryan acknowledges that he's streak-focused, but also sees it as a strength. For example, he says, "as a writer, the way you write books is by showing up every day and writing a little bit, and that adds up cumulatively to books and that's certainly how I, on a consistent basis, have published what I've been able to publish." He likes to do some form of strenuous exercise every day, but tries to balance out his compulsion to run by biking or swimming.

What I love about running is that it's self contained and totally in your control.

Ryan believes that one of the things that contributes to burnout is working and "not feeling like you're making progress, not feeling like it's having an impact, not feeling like there's an end in sight, not feeling like you're progressing, not getting any sort of validation or win out of it." Running is the opposite of that because it's rewarding every time that you do it: "It's like you decided to run for four miles, you go run for four miles and then you come home and that's a win. And so what I love about running is that it's an easy win every day. Even the hard days are still easy compared to the rest of the world, which is so much more uncontrollable."

The courage to be oneself, to be difficult, to be unusual, to transgress norms or expectations, is just as scary and just as important in the long run as any form of physical courage might be.

People tend to think of courage in terms of physical feats, but it's also "when you put yourself out there, when you do what needs to be done despite the fact that it's scary or hard or risky." Ryan tells a story about Margaret Thatcher, who went for her first job interview after university and saw a note that the interviewer had written, saying that she had far too much personality to work there. That's true, Ryan says, she did have too much personality for the job, "but she was courageous enough not to become what she needed to be to work there."

There are two kinds of plagues. There's the one that destroys your life and then there's the one that destroys your character.

That's one of Ryan's favorite quotes from Marcus Aurelius, who lived during a time of plague. It was only during the current pandemic that Ryan realized that quotes like that one, which he had thought were purely figurative, were literal, as well. Now, he says, it's "like, oh I see what you're saying. Yes, you can get Covid. Or you can get infected with something worse than Covid, which is whatever is making these people scream at grocery store employees or take horse dewormer, you know, whatever. You can get infected with a different kind of disease, a different virus. It's actually worse because it makes you worse as a person. It might not have the same health concerns. But it's almost worse."

One of the things that I love about Stoicism is that it's a philosophy that articulates really clearly what our obligations are to other people. For me, the idea that stoicism is this sort of insular personal philosophy really misses what was actually a philosophy designed to make one active in the world.

Ryan's website

The Daily Stoic

Ryan's Facebook

Ryan's Instagram

Ryan's Twitter

Tracksmith is a Boston based company that truly cares about the quality of their running clothes. Running can be demanding on our clothes; they definitely go through wear and tear to where we may be purchasing new clothes constantly. Tracksmith designers work with the finest materials and keep you in mind as a runner, with spots for your keys, phone, and fuel. You can go here to check out my favorites!

You can get $15 off your purchase of $75 or more; click here and enter code TINA15. This offer is ending soon!

Thank you, Generation UCAN. I have been talking about them for years and they are my ONLY source for fueling while I am training and racing. And without fail, I have a product of UCAN every day, whether it is a Peanut Butter Chocolate Bar or their delicious Cookies and Cream Protein Powder. I am also excited to share with you a NEW product, a gel! It's fueled with Superstarch and ready to go wherever you are headed.

Go here and get 20% off your order!

Have you not been feeling yourself lately? Gone down a lot of avenues, but not really found clear solutions? That is where InsideTracker can come in for you. I have trusted this company for years to help me find what I may be lacking, or if I just need a few tweaks here and there. I count on InsideTracker to help me decipher the science behind it all.

Go here to get 25% off as a special for Running for Real listeners when you sign up!

Thanks for listening!

We know there are so many podcasts you could listen to, and we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that the topic will resonate with them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
  • If you are struggling through something a guest mentions, chances are others are too, and you will help them feel less alone.
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people.

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe? You can find out here.

"Thank you" to Ryan. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.

Tina carries a small handheld mic as she does a 30, 45, and 60 minute run with the community. Join in for a body scan, senses check up, updates from life this week (including talking throguh a small injury), and a conversation. This week we talk about small things that can be done environmentally to add into life...although, as you will hear, it is not quite that simple(!). There is a reason these together runs are very popular, give it a try and join in!

Part meditation, part reflection, part check-in, join Tina for #togetherrun23

Be sure to let us know if you would like to attend the Boston meetup on October 10 by emailing Tina

No sponsors today, trying to keep this authentic and like really running with a friend. If you want to support Tina and the Running For Real team:

Through a monthly donation on Patreon. To sign up, click here.

You can share on social media and let others know about what you are loving in these together runs.

You can leave a review on iTunes.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will relate to them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here.

Thank you for joining, we look forward to hearing your thoughts.

At 32, writer/musician Mishka Shubaly could have stepped out of a Bukowski novel. Then, after nearly twenty years of hard drinking, he quit cold turkey. A few months after getting sober, he ran five miles: "My life seemed to shift a few degrees. New possibilities had only been negative for a long time - it was possible that I would wind up in rehab; it was possible that I would wind up in jail. Suddenly some invisible divider had cracked and then shattered. It was now possible that I could do good things, too."

Within a year he ran his first ultra marathon. His bestseller, The Long Run, is a raw, yet often humorous, chronicle of his substance abuse and becoming a runner.

Mishka no longer has "one foot in the gutter and the other in the grave." On this week's episode, he shares his thoughts on religion, education, getting older, and of course, running.

I made it as as honest and ugly as my experience had been, and when I when I turned it in, I was like, this is going to f***ing destroy any writing career that I have because I copped to so much. Because there's just so much filth and weakness, and then the response that I got was wild.

When his editor suggested that he write about becoming a runner, Mishka was less than enthusiastic. "I didn't want to write about my transformation," he says, "because in 2011 that was an old story and I was like, "no it's b**s***. I'm not gonna write another one of those Lifetime made-for-TV movies. You know, the guy learns to run and then figures out all these relationships and it ends with this sort of rosy hued sunset and the family reunites, because it's b***s***, you know? And that's not what it's like."

That wasn't what his editor had in mind. He wanted him to write about finding himself trapped in the inspirational narrative against his will. So that's what Mishka gave him, and the response was overwhelming.

We root for the underdog, and in people's mistakes and weakness and vulnerability, we see our own.

Mishka's brutal honesty about his life empowers readers and audience members to share their own stories with him. "Men will come up to me after shows and just reveal stuff to me where I'm like, "keep your voice down; this is a secret," you know? And it's an honor to be entrusted with those secrets. And also it's a f***ing drag because they're like "oh, thank God, I got that off my chest." And I'm like, "yeah, you got it on to mine."

I realized that I had felt so alone and so isolated and that was my own invention in my head.

People didn't necessarily relate to his circumstances, but his struggles spoke to them. It came as a surprise: "I had no idea that there were so many other people like me out there and now whenever I go to a race - not necessarily a 5K or something, but whenever you go to an ultra - and looking at the starting line, it's like, "what's up, you f***ing degenerates? You know everybody here has some awesome, horrible secret and that's what's driving you to run 100 miles, 50 miles, 50K, whatever it is, that, 'we're here because we're not all there.'"

Running is limitless, it's boundless, and that is the hippiest thing that I will say on this podcast.

Mishka describes his relationship with running in the same way that others describe their relationship with God: "I know that running is always there, it exists constantly whether I'm there participating or not ... it will always be there for me, it will always be available to me ... it's sort of like air, it's just everywhere, it's all around us, and we don't see itbecause it's all around us, not because it's not there."

I will fight to my dying breath to say that people who take on the burden of educating themselves through any means, it doesn't need to be university, but it needs to be something where you interrogate your own beliefs, that that's an honorable pursuit and that it does make you a better human being.

Running isn't the only thing in the air. So is anti-intellectualism, at least in the United States, and it's an attitude that he despises. "It's hard to go to school. It's hard to get an education. It's hard to take on that challenge of learning, to say, 'here's a thing that I don't know, that I don't understand.'"

We can't go back and bring back the wisdom that we've acquired, we can't go back and leave the wisdom that we've acquired.

Knowledge, of course, comes not only from education but also from experience. Despite the pitfalls of getting older - as Mishka says, "if you live long enough, you'll turn into the creepy old dude at the rock concert" - he wouldn't go back in time to be his younger self.

Experience has taught him the value of doing things that don't garner accolades, like making sure that his cat and dog are happy and know that he loves them, even though, as he says, "I can't brag to anybody, 'I ranked second in my age division, competitive cat petting. I'm an ultra petter.'"

I'm trying to just do little things where there's no finish line, there's no cheering spectators, there's no award, literally the only reward is in doing it.

Mishka's website

Mishka's Facebook

Mishka's Instagram

Mishka's Twitter

The Long Run

Athletic Greens is a simple and easy way to get 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients to help my immune system be stronger and greater! It is so simple to make and it tastes good, as well.

Go here to get a FREE year supply of Vitamin D and five FREE travel packs with your subscription.

Tracksmith is a Boston based company that truly cares about the quality of their running clothes. Running can be demanding on our clothes; they definitely go through wear and tear to where we may be purchasing new clothes constantly. Tracksmith designers truly work with the finest materials and keep you in mind as a runner, with spots for your keys, phone, and fuel. You can go here to check out my favorites!

You can get $15 off your purchase of $75 or more; click here and enter code TINA15. This offer will only be available for one more week!

I am thrilled to be sponsored by Picky Bars! I have had a few people from the Picky Bars company on the podcast and I am happy to say that their ideals are right in line with what Running for Real stands for. These bars are not only delicious, but made of real food and are made for sport, imagine that…. They're gluten, soy, gmo, and dairy free, with even some vegan options.

Click here for 20% off AND you can also get an additional 20% off your order if you purchase a Picky Club membership. A membership entitles you to build your own Picky Club Box, delivered every month.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, and we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that the topic will resonate with them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
  • If you are struggling through something a guest mentions, chances are others are too, and you will help them feel less alone.
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people.

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe? You can find out here.

"Thank you" to Mishka. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.

If you have been missing running with friends, these together runs are a way to feel connected to the running community, and feel like you are running alongside a best running friend. Join Tina for an early morning run including, as always, a body scan, senses check in, and conversation about favorite TV shows, and more. Tina also explains how to do strides, and will take you through 2-6 strides as part of your run.

Part meditation, part reflection, part check-in, join Tina for #togetherrun22

Be sure to let us know if you would like to attend the Boston meetup on October 10 by emailing Tina

No sponsors today, trying to keep this authentic and like really running with a friend. If you want to support Tina and the Running For Real team:

Through a monthly donation on Patreon. To sign up, click here.

You can share on social media and let others know about what you are loving in these together runs.

You can leave a review on iTunes.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will relate to them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here.

Thank you for joining, we look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Multimedia artist and professional ultra/trail runner Christian Gering draws inspiration from running and his Native American heritage. Hailing from Katishyta (San Felipe Pueblo) and the Pi'pil people of El Salvador, he believes that "running is a form of art, and art is also a form of movement." He balances his running achievements, which include winning and setting course records at the Javelina 100K and Jemez Mountain Trail Runs 50 Mile, with creating art reflective of movement and the land.

So much of what I've learned through this process is being able to step into opportunity with confidence and knowing that I am capable.

One of Christian's recent projects was creating fabric prints for Janji, the first time a runner has designed the apparel. It was a new experience for him, which he equates to running: "It's like that moment that you are on the start line and there's anxiety, potentially ... you're excited by the environment and wondering if whatever you did is going to be enough. And just to remind people that when we put in the work and we manifest and we have that intention, you areenough, we all are capable of whatever we put our mind to."

A common saying that they would say would be, " go outside" and I reflect on that so much because that is where the imagination for myself started.

Christian's parents encouraged him to be active physically and intellectually. Growing up in Nevada, there was plenty of opportunity for outdoor recreation, and, he says, "I just always held that so close to my heart because when I got the chance to go outside, I had the chance to express myself." He developed his imagination playing outdoors with his friends, where they created games from their surroundings.

Heavily involved in sports from an early age, he entered Nevada's Olympic Development Program, hoping to become a professional soccer player. However, he became disenchanted by the politics behind it and the lack of a supportive environment. He decided that it was time to let go of his soccer "dream" and transition to something different.

My dad thought it would be a great last bonding experience for the men of the house to share something together, something that would be of significance.

Around the time that he decided to stop soccer, his older brother got out of Marine Corps boot camp, and his father suggested that they all run the Las Vegas Rock and Roll Marathon together. During the year leading up to the race, he trained "maybe three months and not even consistently, it was probably like one day of the week I'd run, maybe the next week I'd run two days, and then take a week off and run one other day." At mile 22 of the marathon, as he was limping to the aid station, his dad passed him, "just chipper, you know, big smile, and I could just already feel he has something to say and sure enough,he goes, "All that training, is it paying off for you, Christian?"

Christian went on to run cross-country in high school, but after graduation found himself on a different path.

After high school I realized, well, I'm not gonna go for sports, so I'll pursue the other, which is my artistic side. It's not athletics; I'll do art.

He enrolled in the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe, where he started using marijuana and alcohol regularly and remembers "just kind of getting further away from moving my body and at the same time I'm starting to see a stagnancy in my creative flow because I'm not moving my body as much." He left art school, and on a backpacking trip into the mountains with friends, felt that he was back in his community.

I was going inward and really molding myself to be representative like the mountains, like the landscapes.

He went to live with his grandparents, where he worked their farm alongside his grandfather every day, then would go for a run in the mountains. "So much of my relationship with movement," he says, "was also tied to my connection-ship and relationship to land." He enrolled at Fort Lewis College where he joined the track team, becoming their top runner and attracting the attention of the Native community.

So I started to make these little zine infographics. I called it "imprints" in relation to setting down footprints on this earth that we leave behind and that hopefully others will pick up.

Toward the end of his college career, Christian would be invited to speak to young people who were going on to higher education and would resonate with his story. He realized that he wasn't reaching some of them with a speech, and wanted to give them "a gift of something else, [his] creative passion." He created a zine that he would give to every participant, which led to him presenting workshops, sharing his artwork more, and ultimately to the relationship with Janji.

When I think about it, going back to the cultural component, this is a life-way.

Christian reflects, "At many points within many different communities, running was sought out as a form of transportation, a form of trade, a form of communication not only peoples to peoples but to the heavens, to the deities and beings above and below. But when you think about it, art was also a way to move a message." What he wants to share with his most recent collection is that "we are that medium between these two components. Between the sky which is greater than us and is above us and the land below us. So much is us being that connection. We're that node, we're that median between those two points."

We can be grounded and we can be aspiring to greater things that we may not even know yet. And that is the middle ground. We are that connection.

Christian's website

Christian's Instagram

Christian x Janji collection

I have been a fan of goodr for YEARS and I literally have their sunglasses all over my house. I recently had an episode with co-founder Stephen Lease where he talks about the true and real story behind his company and I appreciate him being honest with me about it. The design behind these sunglasses really takes into consideration look and comfort. They are 100% carbon neutral and a part of 1% for the Planet.

Go here and use the code TINA15 for 15% off your order.

Have you not been feeling yourself lately? Gone down a lot of avenues but haven't really found clear solutions? That is where InsideTracker can come in for you. I have trusted this company for years to show me where I may be lacking and if I need a few tweaks here and there. I count on InsideTracker to help me decipher the science behind it all.

Go here to get 25% off as a special for Running for Real listeners on their ENTIRE store.

A new product that I've been trying out is Beam; they help athletes with balance, performance, and recovery. I've used "elevate energy" and "elevate balance" and the flavors were great. I felt that the hydrating electrolyte energy powder, formulated with beetroot, green coffee bean, and citrulline, really helped me and I know they will help you too.

Go here and use code TINA for 15 % off your order or 20% off a subscription.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, and we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that the topic will resonate with them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
  • If you are struggling through something a guest mentions, chances are others are too, and you will help them feel less alone.
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people.

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe? You can find out here.

"Thank you" to Christian. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.

Join Tina for an unplanned, unscheduled, conversational run that will be as close as running with a friend as possible...without actually running with a friend. As marathon season approaches, Tina gives advice for going into your races prepared and ready. Tina also gives suggestions for fueling and what she will be doing for her races over the next few months.

Part meditation, part reflection, part check-in, join Tina for #togetherrun21

Be sure to let us know if you would like to attend the Boston meetup on October 10 by emailing Tina

Tina talked about UCAN as her fuel source for the coming races. You can get 20% off your order and find out more about Tina's favorites, here.

You can support Running For Real and these together runs continuation through a monthly donation on Patreon. To sign up, click here.

• Tina and Zoe's book
• Patreon

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will relate to them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here.

Thank you for joining, we look forward to hearing your thoughts.

When Sasha Wolff discovered the benefits of running for mental health, she wanted to connect with others who did the same thing. She couldn't find an existing group, so she created her own, Still I Run. What began as a Facebook page and website is now a non-profit charity and a community of runners over 16,000 strong.

"The biggest stat out there is one in five Americans will be diagnosed every single year with a mental illness."

Even if you're not affected, the odds are that you know somebody who is. Mental illness doesn't discriminate. "Mental illness doesn't care where you are in life," Sasha says. "It doesn't care how happy you are. It just happens. It's like when you get a cold out of the blue or you break your leg unexpectedly, or you have a heart attack. You don't plan for those things, they just happen."

"Once I finally started taking that proactive approach, that's when things started to get better for me."

When Sasha was first diagnosed with depression, she was given a prescription for Prozac and sent on her way. That didn't work, and since then she's learned the necessity of proactively managing mental health. She has three tools in her mental health toolbox: running, medication, and therapy.

"I'm hoping that this conversation really explodes into something bigger because we need the support system now."

Alexi Pappas was one of the first professional athletes to discuss mental health. Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka raised awareness further when they stepped away from competition this year. Sasha applauds them: "I think when you have voices like that come forward, it inspires others to come forward, which is why I've decided to be vulnerable about my own story because you hope it at least helps one other person."

"It does kind of help you feel like you're part of something larger than yourself."

The Starting Line Scholarship helps people overcome the barriers they may have to running. "So our hope," Sasha says, "is that by awarding this scholarship, we're giving you all the tools that you need to get started with this lifelong habit of running for mental health."

"Lead with empathy."

Sasha realizes that "it's really hard to understand mental illness because it's not something you can see. It's not something you can really understand unless you talk to someone who may have a mental health disorder." The best thing that you can do if you know someone with a mental illness is to be empathetic. If you're struggling yourself, know that you're not alone.

Still I Run website

Run.Write.Fight.

Starting Line Scholarship

Still I Run Facebook

Still I Run Instagram

Dear Therapists podcast

Tina's Together Runs

Athletic Greens is a simple and easy way to get 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients to help my immune system be stronger and greater! It is so simple to make and it tastes good, as well.

Go here to get a FREE year supply of Liquid Vitamin D and five FREE travel packs with your subscription.

I have been a fan of goodr for YEARS and I literally have their sunglasses all over my house. I recently had an episode with co-founder Stephen Lease where he talks about the true and real story behind his company and I appreciate him being honest with me about it. The design behind these sunglasses really takes into consideration look and comfort. They are 100% carbon neutral and a part of 1% for the Planet.

Go here and use the code TINA15 for 15% off your order.

I am thrilled to be sponsored by Picky Bars! I have had a few people from the Picky Bars company on the podcast and I am happy to say that their ideals are right in line with what Running for Real stands for. These bars are not only delicious, but made of real food and are made for sport, imagine that…. They're gluten, soy, gmo, and dairy free, with even some vegan options.

Click here for 20% off AND you can also get an additional 20% off your order if you purchase a Picky Club membership. A membership entitles you to build your own Picky Club Box, delivered every month.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, and we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that the topic will resonate with them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
  • If you are struggling through something a guest mentions, chances are others are too, and you will help them feel less alone.
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people.

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe? You can find out here.

"Thank you" to Sasha. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.

Join Tina for a together run for a BIG announcement. This run is unplanned, unscheduled, and as always feels like you are running with a friend. If you enjoy relaxed, conversational runs, but are unable to participate in them right now, this will be for you. Tina asks a few thoughtful questions to keep the listener engaged and thinking about their own lives.

Part meditation, part reflection, part check in, join Tina for #togetherrun20

Be sure to let us know if you would like to attend the Boston meetup on October 10!

We also talk about the virtual Rise Run Retreat coming up September 17-19th, and how much Tina valued the experience of attending in 2015 for the lessons she still uses to this day. With code TINA10 get 10% off your registration when you sign up here.

You can support Running For Real and these together runs continuation through a monthly donation on Patreon. To sign up, click here.

• Zoë Rom podcast episode
• Patreon
• Rise Run Retreat

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will relate to them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here.

Thank you for joining, we look forward to hearing your thoughts.

In this episode we talk about:

Jon's experience running for Georgetown University and turning professional

Why you may not need a coach, but it's beneficial to get feedback from someone who's knowledgeable about running

Jon's philosophy of coaching and how he and Molly Seidel work together

The buildup to the Olympic marathon trials in Atlanta and Jon's experience there

The impact of the Olympics' postponement on Molly's performance

What it was like for Jon to watch Molly medal at the Olympics and the preparation he luckily made

Jon and Molly's future racing plans

Jon's role as the head coach at Atalanta NYC

"The results will come if you just kind of constantly listen to your body, and then also relying on friends or mentors within the sport. Yeah, if you're looking to succeed, I think that's a recipe for success there." - Jon Green

Atalanta NYC's website

Jon's Instagram

Ben Rosario's video of Jon at the Olympics

Molly's Olympic marathon finish (jump to 3:35)

Tina's interview with Mary Cain

And in case you were wondering about Jon's ZZ plant…

Tracksmith is a Boston based company that truly cares about the quality of their running clothes. Running can be demanding on our clothes; they definitely go through wear and tear to where we may be purchasing new clothes constantly. Tracksmith designers truly work with the finest materials and keep you in mind as a runner, with spots for your keys, phone, and fuel. You can go here to check out my favorites!

You can get $15 off your purchase of $75 or more; click here and enter code TINA15.

Thank you, Generation UCAN. I have been talking about them for years and they are my ONLY source for fueling while I am training and racing. And without fail, I have a product of UCAN every day, whether it is a Peanut Butter Chocolate Bar or their delicious Cookies and Cream Protein Powder. I am also excited to share with you a NEW product, a gel! Completely fueled with Superstarch and ready to go wherever you are headed off to.

Use code TINAUCAN for 20% off of your order.

Have you not been feeling yourself lately? Gone down a lot of avenues, but not really found clear solutions? That is where InsideTracker can come in for you. I have trusted this company for years to help me find what I may be lacking, or if I just need a few tweaks here and there. I count on InsideTracker to help me decipher the science behind it all.

Go here to get 25% off as a special for Running for Real listeners on their ENTIRE store.

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real.If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will resonate with them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
  • If you are struggling through something a guest mentions, chances are others are too, and you will help them feel less alone.
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people.

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe? You can find out here.

"Thank you" to Jon. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.

Join Tina for a together run talking through how she describes her career and what would she be doing if she had not founded Running For Real. This run is unplanned, unscheduled, and as always feels like you are running with a friend. If you enjoy relaxed, conversational runs, but are unable to participate in them right now, this will be for you. Tina asks a few thoughtful questions to keep the listener engaged and thinking about their own lives.

Part meditation, part reflection, part check in, join Tina for #togetherrun19

We also talk about the virtual Rise Run Retreat coming up September 17-19th, and how much Tina valued the experience of attending in 2015 for the lessons she still uses to this day. With code TINA10 get 10% off your registration when you sign up here.

You can support Running For Real and these together runs continuation through a monthly donation on Patreon. To sign up, click here.

• Patreon
• Rise Run Retreat
• #TheHumanRace

We know there are so many podcasts you could be listening to, but we are honored you have chosen Running For Real. If you appreciate the work that we do, here are a few things you can do to support us:

• Take a screenshot of the episode, and share it with your friends, family, and community on social media, especially if you feel that topic will relate to them. Be sure to tag us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player
  • Your ratings and reviews will really help us grow and reach new people

Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here.

Thank you for joining, we look forward to hearing your thoughts.