Our nation’s founders built a system to guard against human ego and corruption. In 2025, that system is under siege. Katie talks with Atlantic editor-in-chief (and SignalGate-veteran) Jeffrey Goldberg about the magazine’s monumental new issue, The Unfinished Revolution, which asks whether the American experiment can survive its latest stress test: Donald Trump. It’s a conversation about history repeating itself, the precious fragility of democracy, and why the people who established this nation might be horrified by where it’s headed.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.