The Unspeakeasy With Meghan Daum

Paid subscribers get full access to my interview with Nellie Bowles.

The first half of this episode is available to all listeners. To hear the entire conversation, become a paying subscriber here.

You may know Nellie Bowles from TGIF, her popular news roundup in The Free Press. Before that, she reported on Silicon Valley for The New York Times.

Now she's out with her first book, Morning After The Revolution: Dispatches From The Wrong Side Of History. Filled with keenly observed details about the cultural and political battles of the last couple of years, it's also an honest appraisal of her own political evolution. A self-described "lesbian from San Francisco lesbian who held all the values associated with that," Nellie is now among those considered non-grata by progressives—her marriage to Bari Weiss would attest to that—and in this conversation, she talks about coming to terms with that as well as her reporting on everything from Antifa militants to the incel movement. She also talks about her own past life as a member of the progressive purity police.

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Nellie Bowles is a writer living in Los Angeles. Previously, she was a correspondent at The New York Times where, as part of a team, she won the Gerald Loeb Award in Investigations and the Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights Journalism Award. Now she is working with her wife to build The Free Press, a new media company.

Get a copy of her book here.

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This week's guest is economist and public intellectual Glenn Loury. Glenn is almost certainly no stranger to Unspeakable listeners, many of whom know him from his long-running podcast The Glenn Show.

In addition to opining there about political and social issues, Glenn is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences and Professor of Economics at Brown University, where he has taught since 2005.

He grew up on the south side of Chicago and eventually became the first black professor of economics at Harvard and a prominent conservative thinker and policy expert. The Glenn Show debuted in 2012, and Glenn's conversations about race with linguist and cultural critic John McWhorter were foundational to the emergence of the independent media sphere sometimes called the "heterodoxy" (at least they were Meghan's gateway drug).

Glenn has published numerous books, but his latest, a memoir, is a major departure. Late Admissions: Confessions of A Black Conservative is not just an account of his professional trajectory but also an unflinching interrogation of his personal choices.

This interview is stunningly candid and also utterly delightful. Meghan is grateful to Glenn for his honesty, deep insight, and great humor.

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Glenn Loury is a professor of social sciences and economics at Brown University. His new book Late Admissions: Confessions of A Black Conservative is out May 14. You can find him on Substack here.

Pre-order or purchase Glenn's book here.

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This episode is with one of our guest speakers at The Unspeakeasy retreat in Chicago. If you're interested in going, learn more here.

This week Meghan welcomes returning guest Erec Smith. He is an academic whose area of scholarship is Rhetoric, but he also writes and speaks frequently about the state of race politics in America, particularly the perils (and uses) of DEI. In this conversation, they talk about the concept of prescriptive racism, which Erec wrote about in a recent Boston Globe column, and ask whether the emergence of the concept of microaggressions has resulted mainly in people steering clear of one another.

They also discuss what's happened on college campuses since Erec was on the podcast a year ago, including the ouster of college presidents like Harvard's Claudine Gay and U Penn's Liz Magill over free speech policies. He also discusses what he was like as a college student carrying around a copy of Emerson's Self-Reliance and how he would have felt if he'd been told that he was living under the thumb of white supremacy.

Erec will be a guest speaker at the first-ever Unspeakeasy coed retreat in Chicago on June 4-5. We'll also be joined by recent Unspeakable guests Nadine Strossen and Lisa Selin Davis. To find out about that go to theunspeakeasy.com.)

Make sure you listen all the way to the end, so you can hear an excerpt from Everyone's A Little Bit Racist from the Tony Award-winning musical Avenue Q. (Probably not coming to a high school theater near you.)

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Erec Smith is a professor of rhetoric at York College of PA, a research scholar at the Cato Insitute, and a co-founder and an editor at Free Black Thought.

Read Erec's recent Boston Globe column on prescriptive racism.

Listen to the last time he was on the podcast.

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This interview with Benjamin Ryan is a BONUS episode for paying subscribers only.

The first few minutes of this episode is available to all listeners. To hear the entire conversation, become a paying subscriber here.

On April 10th, a big story broke in the gender world: The long-awaited report commissioned by the UK's National Health Service, known as the Cass Review, was released. As soon as the report hit the news cycle, gender-critical activists celebrated it as the final nail in the coffin of harmful practices, while trans-rights activists accused it of faulty methodology.

So who was right? This week, I spoke with Benjamin Ryan, a health and science reporter, to help unpack the Cass Review's data. Ben has spent years covering the intersection of health and public policy. He has a remarkably clear head and is a disciplined thinker about the youth gender medicine debate, so he is a great person to explain what is and is not in the Cass Review.

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Benjamin Ryan is an independent journalist who focuses on health care and science. He contributes to several major publications, including The New York Times, The Guardian, and NBC News. He has a particular interest in public health, medicine, and psychology, and has spent years reporting on HIV.

His work has received multiple awards from NLGJA: The Association of LGBTQ Journalists, including the Excellence in HIV/AIDS Coverage Award. Benjamin is a cancer survivor and enjoys reading, theatre, movies, biking, cooking, and photography in his spare time.

Follow him on Twitter here.

Follow his Substack here.

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This week, Meghan talks with legal scholar, former law professor, and legendary free speech advocate Nadine Strossen.

Nadine was president of the American Civil Liberties Union from 1991 to 2008 and she's the author of many books, including Defending Pornography, which has just been reissued nearly 30 years after its original publication. In this wide-ranging conversation, Nadine talks about pornography, campus speech codes, generational divides when it comes to ideas about words causing harm, and changes in institutions like the ACLU.

This week, almost the entire conversation is available to everyone, but paying Substack subscribers get a fascinating and very funny tangent at the end about a subject (mostly) unrelated to free speech: the subject of choosing not to have children. Nadine always knew she never wanted kids and she talks candidly about what was behind that impulse and how she feels about it now that she's in her 70s.

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Nadine Strossen, New York Law School Professor Emerita and Senior Fellow at FIRE (the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression), was national President of the American Civil Liberties Union from 1991 to 2008. An internationally acclaimed free speech scholar and advocate, who regularly addresses diverse audiences and provides media commentary around the world, Strossen also serves on the Advisory Boards of several organizations that promote free speech and academic freedom.

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This week, author and journalist Lisa Selin Davis returns for her third visit to The Unspeakable. Lisa is best known to listeners for her thorough and rigorous reporting on the new gender movement and her probing insights into how ideas around gender nonconformity have shifted over time.

But she has a new book out about something completely (or at least mostly) different: the concept of the housewife. In Housewife: Why Women Still Do It And What To Do Instead, Lisa traces the social history of the housewife, examines the evolutionary and economic roots of housewifery, and wrestles with why the iconic 50s housewife has such a strong hold on the public consciousness despite not lasting all that long. In this conversation, she discusses what she learned in the course of her reporting, shares her own conflicting feelings about being a wife and mother, and talks about the rise of the "trad wife influencer." Can Instagramming everything from your home birth to your home school be interpreted through a feminist lens? Lisa says yes!

In the second part of the conversation, for paying subscribers, Lisa returns to form and talks about gender, which is the subject of her next book.

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Lisa Selin Davis's new book is Housewife: Why Women Still Do It And What To Do Instead. She is also the author of Tomboy: The Surprising History & Future of Girls Who Dare to Be Different. She has written for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, and elsewhere. She lives in Brooklyn, NY with her family.

Follow her writing on her Substack, Broadview.

You can pick up a copy of Housewife here.

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This week, I'm talking with author Sloane Crosley. Best known for her humorous and existentially probing essays, Sloane's latest book is a departure of sorts. Grief Is For People, a memoir, covers the year in her life following the death of Russell Perreault, a veteran of book publishing who'd been her boss before becoming her closest friend. A month before Russell's death, Sloane's apartment was burglarized by a jewel thief, turning her into an amateur detective as she attempted to retrieve family heirlooms while reckoning with loss across several dimensions.

Sloane worked as a book publicist for many years before being an author herself, and in this conversation, she talks about how office culture has changed over the last decade, especially in the wake of #MeToo, and what it was like to work with famous authors like Joan Didion and Sandra Cisneros in the final glory days of publishing. Meghan and Sloane also explore the phenomenon of collective grief over animals that become symbols of something much larger: for instance, the response to the death a few months ago of Flaco, the Eurasian owl that got out of a zoo enclosure and flew around upper Manhattan for more than a year, captivating not just the New Yorkers who saw him in real life but people all over the world following his whereabouts on social media.

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Sloane Crosley is the author of two novels and three essay collections, including the bestsellers I Was Told They're Be Cake and How Did You Get This Number? Her new book is the memoir Grief Is For People. She lives in New York City.

You can buy her new book here.

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This week, Meghan welcomes Arielle Isaac Norman, an Austin-based comedian who has opened for Louie C.K., Bobcat Goldthwait, Tim Dillon, Joe DeRosa, Eddie Pepitone and Maria Bamford, among others. Arielle, who describes herself as a "politically non-binary lesbian," has a new YouTube special, Ellen DeGenderless, in which she discusses gender identity, sexuality, pronouns, social issues, and pop culture. This conversation covers all of those topics and more — including Arielle's friendship with Louis CK and her thoughts about his sexual behaviors and resulting cancelation.

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Arielle Isaac Norman is an Austin-based comedian. Her new special, Ellen Degenderless, is now streaming on YouTube. Find her on Instagram at @ellendegenderless and on YouTube or Spotify at Politically Non-binary.

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This week's guest is journalist Abigail Shrier. In her new book, Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up, she delves into why so many children, teens, and young adults have received mental health diagnoses over the last few decades. Is it because society is finally recognizing emotional suffering? Or is it because society has become irrationally fixated on the idea of suffering? Abigail says it's the latter, and in this conversation, she talks about how mediocre clinicians, flawed research, overzealous prescribing of medications, and, above all, a cultural obsession with trauma and emotional injury are causing unnecessary misery.

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Abigail Shrier's new book is the best-selling Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up. She is also the author of the best-selling 2020 book Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters, which was named a "Best Book" by the Economist and the Times of London and has been translated into ten languages.

She holds an A.B. from Columbia College, where she received the Euretta J. Kellett Fellowship; a B.Phil. from the University of Oxford; and a J.D. from Yale Law School.

You can pick up a copy of Bad Therapy here.

Read Abigail's Substack here.

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If you were in middle school or high school in the last couple of decades, there's a good chance you were assigned Sherman's classic young adult novel The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, an epistolary novel with cartoon illustrations about a native teenage boy growing up on the Spokane Indian Reservation who decides to attend a nearly all-white high school. The book is semi-autobiographical. Sherman grew up on that reservation in the 1970s and 80s and is a member of the Spokane Tribe. He is also arguably — or perhaps inarguably — the most significant native American writer of the last 30 years. Not only did The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian win the 2007 National Book Award for Young People's Literature, among other prizes, but his 2009 book War Dances won the 2010 Pen/Faulkner award for fiction, and his 1993 story collection The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven was adapted into the popular and highly acclaimed film Smoke Signals.

Best of all (for me, anyway), Sherman is teaching a class for the brand-new Unspeakeasy School Of Thought. It's in a brand new genre: Writing Your Cancelation Story.

In this conversation, Sherman talks about his career, his 2018 "cancelation event" (or at least its aftermath) and offers his thoughts on the state of writing and publishing, not least of all the recent incident wherein editors at the journal Guernica retracted an essay when the Twitter mob and its own staffers deemed it harmful, even "genocidal."

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Sherman Alexie is a poet, short story writer, novelist, essayist, memoirist, and filmmaker. He's published two dozen books, including The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, which won the National Book Award for Young People's Literature and was listed by the American Library Association as the Most Banned and Challenged Book from 2010 to 2019. He's won the PEN-Faulkner and PEN-Malamud awards, and he wrote and co-produced the award-winning film Smoke Signals, which was based on his short story collection The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven.

Visit Sherman's Substack.

Check out his upcoming course here.

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✈️ Unspeakeasy Retreats: See where we're going to be in 2024!

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