How do you understand the kingdom of God, Jesus’ gospel and salvation? In episode 15 of the Things Above podcast, James Bryan Smith sits down for a conversation with pastor and author Brian Zahnd who, many years ago, experienced a growing discontent with the version of Christianity he knew and was living. Then he stumbled across a little book called The Divine Conspiracy, which helped him see the kingdom of God with fresh eyes and reconstructed his faith in a life-changing way. Both Jim and Brian trade stories of how their understanding of the gospel has shifted over time and what was of utmost importance to Jesus. This understanding has also had an enormous influence on how they understand salvation.

The episode ends with Jim asking Brian a hypothetical question: If the Apostle Paul walked into an American church in our day and heard the gospel presented strictly as penal substitutionary atonement, how would he respond? You’ll have to listen to hear the answer! Key Scripture passages include Matthew 5.

Enjoyed this conversation? Listen to other Things Above Conversations here:

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