In this episode, James Bryan Smith sits down with speaker and author Chris Heuertz, for a Things Above Conversation. Chris and his wife Phileena served with the Word Made Flesh community for nearly 20 years, working for women and children victimized by human traffickers in the commercial sex industry. His vocation has taken him to over 70 countries working among the most vulnerable of the world’s poor. In their conversation, James and asks Chris about his recently released book, “The Sacred Enneagram” and the impact it can have on our spiritual formation.

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