The headlines prove it: we live in turbulent times. Elizabeth Oldfield, our guest this week, recently published a book — Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times — about how to thrive during such a moment. “If we’re heading into (even more) turbulent times,” Elizabeth writes, “I want to be someone who is of use, not overwhelmed and panicking but steady and hopeful, able to contribute to weaving a canopy of trust under which other people can shelter.” Along with being a writer, a former think tank director and an accomplished broadcast journalist, Elizabeth is host of The Sacred, a podcast where she interviews cultural leaders who “shape our common life,” and asks them “about their deepest values.”

In this week’s episode, Damir Marusic and Santiago Ramos turn the tables on Elizabeth, putting her in the interviewee’s chair. What is the source of the wisdom distilled in Elizabeth’s book? If it is religious faith, then is faith required in order to truly embrace that wisdom? Or is the grace of God required? What is “grace,” anyway? Santiago wants to understand how the wisdom that Elizabeth writes about can be appropriated for one’s self. Damir tries to distinguish that wisdom from self-help and therapy.

The conversation touches upon art and faith, whether “despair” or “preserving civilization” are good reasons to adopt religion, the necessity of community, and the role that doubt plays in faith. At the heart of the discussion is Damir’s question: “How do we live in this world, and how do we cope with the existence of the horror of this world?”

This episode is a searching, personal discussion that is just the thing we need this holiday season. In the bonus section for paid subscribers, Elizabeth talks about her experience of living in community, and also plunges deep into one of the biggest mysteries of the Christian faith.

Required Reading:

* Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times by Elizabeth Oldfield (Amazon).

* Elizabeth’s podcast, The Sacred (Apple Podcasts).

* Damir’s essay about therapy (WoC).

* Shadi and Damir podcast episode on therapy (WoC).

* Pensées by Blaise Pascal (Amazon).

* Ayaan Hirsi Ali column explaining “Why I am now a Christian” (UnHerd).

* Ayaan Hirsi Ali interview further explaining her conversion (UnHerd).

* Elizabeth’s “middle class commune” (profile in the London Times).

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