I am so excited for this conversation today because it’s one I have personally been sitting with, wrestling with, and actively experimenting with over the past few weeks.

We are welcoming back the incredible Abby Payne, who many of you remember from our first episode together on people-pleasing, self-worth wounds, and the nervous system. And today, we’re exploring a topic that affects every single one of us (sometimes quietly, sometimes loudly) and almost always with shame: our relationship with screens.

Abby has recently shifted her work to focus on screen time and nervous system coaching, and her Digital Detox program is one of the most compassionate, science-backed approaches I’ve ever seen. She teaches that screen struggles aren’t about willpower; they’re about dopamine, nervous system regulation, and the parts of us that use screens for safety, escape, comfort, or protection. And that shift alone was so freeing.

Because here’s the thing: our devices are built to keep us hooked. Our brains adapt. Our nervous system learns. And when we try to “just stop scrolling,” we’re not battling laziness: we’re bumping up against actual neurobiology.

And I can tell you from my own experience working with Abby these last few weeks, the shame we feel around screen use (the guilt, the hiding, the beating ourselves up for not sticking to limits) actually makes everything worse. She helped me understand why the patterns I had with my phone made perfect sense given my nervous system, my habits, my lifestyle, and the stress I carry.

Today, we’re unpacking:

• Why screens feel addictive
• How shame deepens the cycle
• Why willpower doesn’t work
• How to use compassion and structure to create a different kind of relationship
• And how to build a system where you own your device, not the other way around

Whether you’ve felt tethered to your phone, overwhelmed by notifications, guilty about scrolling at night, or frustrated with the constant pull to “just check one more thing,” this episode is going to make you feel so much less alone, and so much more empowered.

Let’s get into it.

More About Abby

Abby Payne is a Screen Time & Nervous System Coach, registered nurse, and creator of the Digital Detox course, a science-backed, spiritually grounded program that helps overwhelmed professionals rebuild a healthier relationship with their devices. As someone who has helped countless people step out of shame and into intentional living, Abby specializes in showing that screen time struggles aren’t a willpower issue; they’re a strategy issue. She blends neuroscience, habit change, nervous system regulation, and spiritual presence to help people understand why they get pulled into their screens and how to break the cycle with compassion instead of guilt.

Connect with Abby

• Digital Detox Program: https://www.nurseabbyllc.com/digital-detox
• ScreenZen Setup Video: https://ko-fi.com/s/45d20c5be0
• Substack: https://mossontherocks.substack.com/
• App & Resources Mentioned
• ScreenZen App (Apple App Store): https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenzen-screen-time-control/id1541027222

Get Connected.

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel

★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c

Take the Next Step.

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient

★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call

★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living

In this episode, I sit down with Chris Mamone to talk about the complex reality of grief. Chris shares his personal experience of losing his son to stillbirth in 2022, and he explains how this massive loss forced him to re-evaluate everything he knew about processing pain.

We discuss why grief goes far beyond just losing a loved one, noting that it can include job loss, moving, or losing relationships. Chris and I also explore the societal pressure to "get over it," the damage caused by shame, and how we can show up better for ourselves and those around us.

We Covered:

• Grief is not a problem to be fixed; it is a process of personal transformation.
• The danger of the "yo-yo effect" happens when we let societal shame disconnect us from our true feelings.
• We must stop comparing our losses to the losses of others, as every experience is unique.
• You can support a grieving friend by simply being present and holding space instead of trying to offer solutions.
• It is possible to navigate the loss of connection and friendships in today's divisive social and political climate by focusing on what you can control.

Memorable Quotes:

"Most of us walk around with it and don't even know it." "Grievers don't need to be fixed. They don't need to be told what to do." "Grief does not discriminate in any capacity."

More About Chris:

Chris Mamone is an Acceptance Coach and the Founder of The Empowered Grief Coaching Practice and Podcast. He helps individuals move from a place of pain into a place of hope and empowerment through their grief.

Chris supports those navigating grief, loss, and trauma to rediscover self-acceptance and step into their personal power so they can create an inspiring future grounded in healing, truth, and purpose. He is also releasing a book featuring 23 stories of grief this coming November.

Connect with Chris:

Website: http://www.empoweredgriefjourney.com/

Podcast: https://empoweredgriefjourney.podbean.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thechrismamone

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/empoweredgriefjourney/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@empoweredgriefjourney

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/empoweredgriefjourney/

I am equal parts curious, interested, and a little scared because of the incredible things we talk about today. In this episode, I sit down with Mel Dorman to explore how we can heal our toxic beliefs about wealth and redefine what it means to be financially secure.

Mel shares an incredible path, starting from living in a slum in Kolkata, India, helping women escape sex trafficking on a dollar a day. At the time, Mel despised the capitalist system. But everything changed when Mel's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Facing a $7,000 monthly care bill while earning only $2,000 to $3,000 a month as a social worker forced Mel to rethink everything.

We discuss how Mel read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" while working at the LA County Jail, eventually buying 34 rental units in five years using seller financing. Mel challenges the anti-landlord sentiment we see so often, reminding us that local, mom-and-pop housing providers are vital to keeping communities intact against corporate hedge funds.

Key Takeaways

Healing Subconscious Beliefs: We discuss how to identify the shame and negative stories we hold about people who have wealth.

Generative vs. Extractive Capital: Mel learned in India that business can equal freedom, teaching us that wealth does not have to be extractive.

Seller Financing: We learn about creating mutually beneficial real estate deals directly with neighbors, which bypasses traditional bank loans and relies on social capital.

Community Interdependence: By building local wealth, we can support each other without over-relying on the government or distant corporations.

More about Mel

Mel Dorman went from dumpster scavenging in their twenties to building a multimillion-dollar real estate portfolio in their thirties, combining traditional bank loans with creative seller financing to acquire 34 rental units in just five years. A former social worker turned financial activist, Mel shows that wealth doesn’t have to flow through Wall Street to grow.

As the founder of the Seller Financing Academy and author of Bank on Your Neighbor, Mel teaches everyday people how to use both conventional tools and community-based financing strategies to buy property, build equity, and keep wealth circulating locally instead of siphoned upward to billionaires. Their TEDx talk on creative finance became an Editor’s Pick and has reached hundreds of thousands of viewers hungry for an alternative to the corporate grind.

Mel’s mission is simple: decentralize wealth, empower neighbors, and prove that ordinary people can rewrite the rules of finance one seller-financed deal at a time.

Connect with Mel

Book a Consult Session: https://oncehub.com/PAGE-A67D0D68E5?utm_campaign=unshame&utm_source=pod

Website: https://www.meldorman.com/

TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptadc1hNEi8

Free Audio Book: As a little gift, here is the link to her book on audio for free: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2528303/about

Get Connected

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel

★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c 

Take the Next Step

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace: www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient

★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support that best fits your needs: https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call

★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice (Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship): https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living

In this episode, I am joined by Kathy Wisniewski, certified health coach, owner of True and Lasting Wellness, and host of the Tragically Beautiful podcast, for an honest conversation about shame, abuse, and reclaiming personal power.

We unpack why abusive and disempowering relationships are often misunderstood, how shame keeps people silent, and why leaving is not the same as healing. Kathy shares her personal experience through narcissistic abuse, perfectionism, and loss of self, and how learning to love herself enough to set boundaries changed everything.

During our conversation, we discuss how narcissistic personalities often cast themselves as either the victim or the hero. They may begin a relationship with intense love bombing, giving all their attention and affection, before their mask slips and they begin to distance themselves and withhold affection. Kathy opens up about how shame acts as a silencer. She kept her experience a secret because she had bought into the narrative that her relationship was a meant-to-be fairy tale that started in high school.

We also explore the painful emotions of shame and embarrassment. Overcoming this requires confronting lonely moments and doing inner child healing. A major realization for Kathy was understanding that her lack of boundaries stemmed from not loving herself enough. Often, people feel inherently defective or broken, leading them to believe they do not deserve to set boundaries. By overcoming this double dose of shame, the shame of the abuse itself and the shame of feeling like she should have known better, Kathy was able to channel her energy into serving others.

If you have ever questioned your worth, stayed too long, or wondered why setting boundaries feels so hard, this conversation will meet you with clarity and compassion.

Key Takeaways

Abuse thrives in silence, shame, and perfectionism.

Narcissistic relationships often start with intense affection and love bombing before the partner becomes distant and withdrawn.

Leaving a relationship does not automatically heal the nervous system.

A lack of personal boundaries often comes from not loving oneself enough and feeling inherently broken.

Shame acts as a silencer, keeping people trapped in a false narrative about their relationship.

Victims often experience a double dose of shame because they believe they should have known better.

Healing involves turning painful energy into a desire to provide service to others.

About Kathy Wisniewski

Kathy Wisniewski is a passionate and dedicated health coach certified through the Institute for Integrative Nutrition and the owner of True and Lasting Wellness. With a deep commitment to comprehensive healing, she specializes in empowering survivors of abuse to rewrite their stories and reclaim their wellbeing across all key areas of their lives. Kathy is also the host of the Tragically Beautiful podcast, a platform dedicated to helping abuse survivors share their stories while celebrating the beautiful things that life can offer beyond trauma. Through candid conversations and inspiring narratives, Kathy and her guests shed light on the transformative power of healing and a positive mindset.

Connect with Kathy

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tragicallybeautifulpodcast

Instagram (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/tragicallybeautifulpodcast

Instagram (Kathy): https://www.instagram.com/coachkathywisniewski

Get Connected.

Subscribe to my YouTube channel

Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

Listen to my Podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c

Take the Next Step.

Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient

In this Ask Me Anything episode, I am pressing pause on specific listener questions to unpack a theme that has been showing up constantly in my work: the radical acceptance of imperfection. I have been thinking a lot about mistakes lately, from the tiny ones to the parenting moments that replay in my head at 2 AM.

I discuss why being human means we are imperfect and why that imperfection is actually a feature, not a flaw. We live in a culture that tells us we should rise above our humanity through optimization and therapy, but I want to challenge that. I explore why there is no finish line where we stay healed forever and how rupture and repair not perfection are what actually deepen our connections.

Key Topics & Takeaways

• Imperfection as a Feature: I explain why our inability to be perfect is not a bug in the system but simply how our nervous systems and brains function.

• The Trap of "More": I talk about the resistance we feel and how we often confuse healthy growth with the impossible standard of never letting anyone down.

• Rupture and Repair: I share why my relationships, including my marriage and parenting, are stronger because we move through conflict rather than avoiding it.

• Personal Reflections: I admit that no matter how much I study shame resilience, shame still shows up in my life, and I am learning to be okay with that.

• Shift to Curiosity: I ask you to shift your focus from "I need to fix this" to "I want to understand myself better".

Memorable Quotes

• "Being human means we're imperfect, and our imperfection is not a flaw, it's a feature."

• "The moments where we stumble, where we fail, where we have rupture and repair, those are the moments where connection deepens."

• "You are allowed to be a work in progress and a person of worth at the same time."

• "We're not a project to complete. You're a process to participate in." 

📝 Want to submit a question for a future episode?

Nothing is off-limits (well, almost nothing).

⁠Submit your question⁠ anonymously or with your name — whatever feels safest for you.

👉 https://forms.gle/1uYJ87Y2Vag6KYCeA

💬 If this episode spoke to you, drop a comment and share what resonated or shifted for you.

Ready to take the next step?

Download the FREE handout, “5 Things Shame Resilient People Do Every Day” to begin building safety and trust with yourself.

Book a free 25-minute discovery call to explore coaching or program options that support healing beyond survival mode.

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel

★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c 

Take the Next Step.

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient 

★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call

★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living

### SHOUT-OUTS:

★ All video editing done by my wonderful husband, Jordan Wackett. Check him out at @jordanwackett.

In this conversation, Kyira Wackett and Jemma discuss the complex relationship between body confidence and shame, exploring personal journeys and societal influences. They delve into the importance of self-worth, the impact of societal standards on body image, and the journey towards body acceptance. Jemma shares insights on intuitive eating, the significance of body neutrality, and the challenges posed by hustle culture. The discussion emphasizes the need for empathy and understanding in addressing body image issues across all body types.

Takeaways

• Body confidence is a journey that requires self-trust and self-belief.

• Shame often stems from societal conditioning and influences our body image.

• Intuitive eating can help separate self-worth from body image.

• Body neutrality is a more achievable goal for many individuals.

• Societal standards create pressure to conform to certain body types.

• The hustle culture can lead to unhealthy patterns in various aspects of life.

• Recognizing patterns of behavior can help in addressing body image issues.

• Building body confidence involves taking small, actionable steps.

• Empathy and acceptance for all body types can lead to a more inclusive society.

• The journey to body acceptance is ongoing and requires continuous effort.

More about Jemma:

Jemma Haythorne is a Confidence Coach on a mission to help women build unshakeable confidence, break free from body shame, silence their inner critic and make true self-love their default setting. After years of struggling with her body image, food, and self-doubt, she found true freedom - and now she's on a mission to empower others to do the same. She teaches women how to take up space, love their bodies, say yes to their dreams, and trust themselves fully. Whether through coaching, speaking, writing or her podcast, she's here to be your certified hype girl and the biggest advocate for lasting self-love.

Connect with Jemma:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/inspire__wellness

• Website:  https://www.inspirewellnessau.com.au

• Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3TxBxkB8ITxfhwmtN8Atwb?si=a1550204d6224d50

Get Connected.

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel

★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c 

Take the Next Step.

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient 

★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call

★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living

SHOUT-OUTS

★ All video editing done by my wonderful husband, Jordan Wackett. Check him out at @jordanwackett.

In this episode, I am continuing our topic-driven conversations by tackling a feeling I know we all share: the tension between everything we want to do and what we actually have the capacity for. We live in a world that constantly tells us to do more, be more, and optimize more, creating a quiet, shame-filled narrative that if we can't keep up, something is wrong with us.

I explore the radical acceptance that you are never going to have enough time. We discuss how "hustle culture" tricks us into treating rest and joy like rewards we have to earn, and why "later" never actually arrives. Instead of trying to optimize our nervous systems, I share the questions I use to cut through the urgency and return to intentionality.

Key Topics & Takeaways

• The Myth of "Getting Ahead": I discuss why we constantly feel like we need to "get ahead" before we can rest, and why that finish line keeps moving.

• Infinite Inputs: How the endless stream of podcasts, courses, and "shoulds" creates a false urgency that erodes our presence.

• Brené Brown’s Two Questions: I share a framework I learned from Brené Brown to manage demands: 1) Who and what do I want to be held accountable to? and 2) Does that decision align with my values?.

• Alignment Over Hustle: Why we need to stop asking if we can do something and start asking if it aligns with the life we want to design.

• The 10-Minute Audit: I issue a gentle challenge to look at your to-do list and ask: "Is this something I genuinely want or need to do?" and "What am I saying no to by saying yes here?".

Memorable Quotes

• "What if the problem isn't you? What if the problem is actually the story that we've been sold... about time, worth and productivity?"

• "Your worth is not measured by how efficiently you use every single minute. Your life is not a productivity project."

• "Your nervous system does not exist to be optimized."

• "Choosing alignment is an act of self-love and quiet rebellion."

📝 Want to submit a question for a future episode?

Nothing is off-limits (well, almost nothing).

⁠Submit your question⁠ anonymously or with your name — whatever feels safest for you.

👉 https://forms.gle/1uYJ87Y2Vag6KYCeA

💬 If this episode spoke to you, drop a comment and share what resonated or shifted for you.

Ready to take the next step?

Download the FREE handout, “5 Things Shame Resilient People Do Every Day” to begin building safety and trust with yourself.

Book a free 25-minute discovery call to explore coaching or program options that support healing beyond survival mode.

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel

★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list

★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c 

Take the Next Step.

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient 

★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call

★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living

### SHOUT-OUTS:

★ All video editing done by my wonderful husband, Jordan Wackett. Check him out at @jordanwackett.

In this episode, we welcome back Jane Pilger to explore the nervous system, shame, and the internal "parts" that drive our behaviors. While many believe binge eating stems from a lack of discipline, Jane explains that it is actually a nervous system response designed for protection. When we feel unsafe or overwhelmed, our bodies often turn to food as a way to regulate energy and numb difficult feelings.

Jane breaks down the concept of the "Safety Paradox," where we seek safety in food even though it ultimately makes us feel unsafe. We also discuss Internal Family Systems (IFS) and how to distinguish between our "protector" parts and our "young" parts. By shifting from judgment to compassionate curiosity, we can begin to understand the protective role these behaviors play and learn to lead our internal parts with the wisdom of a "kindergarten teacher".

We covered:

• The Nervous System & Safety: How the body constantly scans for danger (neuroception) and uses food to regulate excess energy from the "fight or flight" response.

• The Binge Feedback Loop: Understanding how we bounce between high-energy anxiety and low-energy collapse, using food to manage the transition.

• Shame as a Driver: How shame fuels the binge cycle by keeping the nervous system in a state of threat, which leads to more eating for relief.

• Parts Work (IFS): Identifying "Protector" parts that try to shield "Young" parts from pain, rejection, or trauma.

• The Safety Paradox: Why we turn to food for comfort even when we know it causes distress.

• Practical Strategies:

• Asking "How does this make sense?" to replace judgment with understanding.

• Creating a "Moments that Matter" list to track small victories.

• Using the "Kindergarten Teacher" analogy to guide internal parts with patience rather than criticism.

More about Jane:

Jane helps women understand why they binge eat and how to stop. She guides women who have been struggling, often for decades, to find the missing link to go from fighting with their bodies to working with them.

Whether someone is a binge eater, doesn't trust themselves with certain foods, or just doesn't understand why they behave the way they do sometimes, she's got them. She teaches her clients how to understand their behavior, how to develop trust with themselves and how to cultivate the safety that they need to navigate life. Her approach is rooted in the science of the brain and body, trauma informed, and filled with compassion.

Connect with Jane:

• Website: www.janepilger.com

• Instagram and Facebook: @janepilgercoaching

• Substack: janepilger.substack.com

💬 If this episode spoke to you, drop a comment and share what resonated or shifted for you.Ready to take the next step?Download the FREE handout, “5 Things Shame Resilient People Do Every Day” to begin building safety and trust with yourself.Book a free 25-minute discovery call to explore coaching or program options that support healing beyond survival mode.★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c Take the Next Step.★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient ★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living### SHOUT-OUTS:★ All video editing done by my wonderful husband, Jordan Wackett. Check him out at @jordanwackett.

In this episode, I step back from individual listener questions to address a topic that’s generating a lot of confusion right now: trauma bonding.

We explore the intersection of shame, attachment, and survival and why trauma bonds are so often misunderstood as “poor choices” or “lack of boundaries.”

Inside this episode, we’ll talk about:What trauma bonding actually is (and what it’s not)Why our brains form these bonds in the first placeHow intermittent reinforcement keeps people stuckWhat healing looks like beyond “just leaving”If you’ve ever felt trapped in a relationship that hurt but also felt impossible to walk away from, this episode will help you understand what was happening — without judgment or blame.

📝 Want to submit a question for a future episode?Nothing is off-limits (well, almost nothing).⁠

Submit your question⁠ anonymously or with your name — whatever feels safest for you.👉 https://forms.gle/1uYJ87Y2Vag6KYCeA

💬 If this episode spoke to you, drop a comment and share what resonated or shifted for you.Ready to take the next step?

Download the FREE handout, “5 Things Shame Resilient People Do Every Day” to begin building safety and trust with yourself.

Book a free 25-minute discovery call to explore coaching or program options that support healing beyond survival mode.

★ Subscribe to my YouTube channel★ Sign up for my email list: https://adversityrising.com/email-list★ Listen to my Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2AouludJr7EweOkMIN9s42?si=d8cdfcb925ce4c9c Take the Next Step.

★ Download the FREE handout, "5 Things Shame Resilient People do Every Day" and start making those daily shifts to break that shame cycle that's keeping you stuck in that negative headspace. www.adversityrising.com/become-shame-resilient ★ Book a free 25-minute discovery call to discuss different program options and find the support best fits your needs. https://calendly.com/adversityrising/discovery-call★ Are you a people pleaser? Ruminator? Over-extender? Sign up for the next round of Liberated Living and implement the radical 3 practice — Radical Acceptance, Radical Responsibility & Radical Authorship: https://adversityrising.com/liberated-living### SHOUT-OUTS:★ All video editing done by my wonderful husband, Jordan Wackett. Check him out at @jordanwackett.

Welcome back to the second half of this crucial conversation.

If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, I highly recommend hitting pause and going back to listen to that episode first [LINK TO PART 1 HERE].

In that first episode, we laid the foundation—defining what "pig butchering" actually is and exploring the global machinery behind these scams. You really need that context for this episode to hit home.

In Part 2, Michele Ilich-Daubas and I move from awareness into application. We are breaking down exactly how people get deceived in real time, what happens in the aftermath, and—most importantly for this podcast—how shame keeps victims silent.

We discuss the specific mechanics of deception, like phishing and "smishing," and how scammers rely on our brains’ natural tendency to "fill in the blanks" when we are stressed or fearful. Michele shares some truly eye-opening examples, including how law enforcement impersonation scams are specifically targeting licensed professionals like therapists and doctors. It was a humbling reminder that intelligence and education do not make us immune to fear-based tunnel vision.

But we don’t just stay in the problem. We talk about the solution. We explore how to shift our language from "I fell for it" to "I was deceived," why we need to stop judging our aging parents and start empowering them, and how community connection is ultimately our strongest defense.

Key Takeaways

This episode is about compassion. It’s about slowing down. And it’s about remembering that under the right circumstances, anyone can be deceived.

• Deception works by hijacking fear, not logic Urgency, authority, secrecy, and intimidation shut down our critical thinking and kick our "lizard brain" into overdrive.

• Phishing and smishing rely on “filling in the blanks” Scams feel believable when they intersect with our real-life stressors, shame stories, or existing fears (like missing a toll, a tax payment, or fearing arrest).

• Professionals are actively targeted Michele reveals how therapists, doctors, and nurses are frequent targets of sophisticated law enforcement impersonation scams.

• Scams don’t just steal money — they steal self-trust The emotional aftermath often includes grief, isolation, and a devastating loss of independence that is harder to recover from than the financial loss.

• Language matters We discuss why shifting from "I fell for it" (which implies stupidity) to "I was deceived" (which acknowledges the crime) is critical for reducing shame.

• Silence protects scammers Talking openly about scams helps others recognize red flags before harm occurs.

• Prevention starts with slowing down Hanging up, verifying independently, and simply pausing when fear spikes can interrupt the cycle of deception.

• Grace is essential Being deceived is not a moral failure — it’s a human response to sophisticated manipulation.

  About Michele Ilich-Daubas

Michele Ilich-Daubas is a fraud fighter, public speaker, and educator dedicated to exposing and preventing sophisticated online scams, including the devastating crime known as pig butchering. A former Meta employee turned advocate, Michele now leads public awareness efforts through her organizations Deception Code and Operation Shamrock, empowering individuals—especially older adults—to recognize, report, and recover from financial and emotional exploitation. Her work blends education, empathy, and advocacy to dismantle the shame that keeps victims silent and to shine a light on how scammers manipulate trust and connection to deceive even the most vigilant among us.

Connect with Michele

• Website: http://www.deceptioncode.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/milichdaubas/

• Organization: http://www.operationshamrock.org/

  Resources Mentioned

• Part 1 of this Interview: [LINK TO PART 1 HERE]

• Operation Shamrock: operationshamrock.org – A resource for survivor stories and scam prevention.