Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent open with the media's response to the Charlie Kirk murder, then trace a straight line back to early-pandemic narratives that normalized doubt and minimized harm. They dissect John Ioannidis' April 2020 claims (low IFR, asymptomatic majority, "they would've died anyway"), show how those talking points seeded Great Barrington-style "protect the vulnerable" rhetoric, and examine how today's figures—Jay Bhattacharya, Marty Makary, and RFK Jr.—reuse those frames to attack CDC leadership and rewrite history. The episode closes on the emotional toll of being dismissed in real time while morgues overflowed, and why remembering who amplified whom still matters.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent dissect the latest controversies around censorship, disinformation, and the rewriting of COVID's history. From Jonathan's YouTube ban after posting videos of public officials, to David Zweig's revisionist narratives about school closures, the conversation exposes how propaganda tactics and false claims are reshaping public perception.

They also highlight troubling developments at the FDA, NIH, and in political arenas where vaccine mandates are under attack, drawing connections between misinformation, free speech battles, and the erosion of trust in science.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Public health leaders, scientists, and concerned citizens are rallying together to demand accountability from RFK Jr. His recent decisions and rhetoric have ignited a firestorm of criticism, raising alarms about the future of public health in America. A new petition calls for his immediate resignation, citing dangerous policies, lack of scientific transparency, and a disregard for evidence-based medicine.

This movement is about more than politics—it's about safeguarding the health and security of Americans. By signing, you join a coalition of doctors, experts, and everyday citizens standing up for truth, integrity, and science.

👉 Sign and share the petition here: https://www.change.org/p/demand-rfk-jr-resign-petition-for-a-healthy-america

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode of We Want Them Infected, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack the shocking CDC shooting in Atlanta, which many are calling "public health's January 6th." They trace how years of anti-science rhetoric from figures like RFK Jr., Jay Bhattacharya, and Vinay Prasad have fueled violent consequences.

They also welcome their first guest, Dr. Philipp Markolin PhD, author of Lab Leak Fever. Dr. Markolin shares his global reporting on COVID's origins, dismantles the so-called "lab leak" hypothesis, and explains how disinformation has been weaponized for politics and power. From epidemiological evidence at the Wuhan market to the ghost DNA of raccoon dogs, he outlines why science overwhelmingly supports a zoonotic origin.

This episode tackles misinformation, political corruption, and the dangerous future of science under attack—while honoring the tragic loss of a young officer in the CDC shooting.

Resources Mentioned

• Dr. Phillipp Markolin: Lab Leak Fever → https://www.lab-leak-fever.com/about
• STAT News article: "The CDC Shooting Was Public Health's January 6th" by Colin Carlson & Sean Kennedy
• STAT News article: "Kennedy's Case Against mRNA Vaccines Collapses Under His Own Evidence" by Dr. Jake Scott
• LA Times: Coverage of COVID resurgence in the Southwest, fall 2025
• MedPage Today: "The Executive Order That Could Cripple Science" by Adam Brown
• Science-Based Medicine: Analysis of Jay Bhattacharya and NIH policy shifts
• Audrey Tang (Taiwan's Cyber Minister) – discussed as a model for democratic info ecosystems

Guest Bio – Dr. Philipp Markolin

Dr. Philipp Markolin, PhD is a Switzerland-based science writer and author of Lab Leak Fever, a definitive investigation into the origins of COVID-19. Trained in molecular biology and machine learning, Dr. Markolin spent more than a decade in academia before transitioning to science communication during the pandemic.

He has written extensively on the intersection of science, conspiracy theories, and society, and has interviewed leading virologists, field researchers, and policymakers around the world. His reporting has taken him into wildlife markets and labs, where he traced the evidence that overwhelmingly supports a zoonotic origin for COVID-19.

Dr. Markolin also co-produced a documentary film exploring the pandemic's origins and the scientists at the center of the controversy. He writes the blog Protagonist Science and speaks globally on the dangers of misinformation and the urgent need to protect scientific integrity.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode, we break down the high-profile firing of Dr. Vinay Prasad from his FDA leadership post. Once hailed as a contrarian voice in medicine, Prasad quickly became a polarizing figure both inside and outside the agency. We explore the tangled web of political infighting, pressure from Big Pharma, the biotech industry, and conspiracy theorists like Laura Loomer—and why this decision may have less to do with science and more with chaos at the top.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

What happens when the loudest anti-vaccine voices stop podcasting and start running the FDA? In this explosive episode, Jonathan Howard and Wendy unpack how Drs. Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad — once champions of vaccine skepticism — are now in charge of public health policy… and finding themselves at war with the very conspiracy movement they courted.

From quoting dubious anecdotes as "data" to downplaying real virus-related deaths while obsessing over vaccine side effects, their hypocrisy is staggering. Even MAGA influencers and anti-vax leaders are turning on them for not going far enough.

The leopards are eating their faces — and we're here to document the carnage.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack the ongoing collapse of trust in America's public health institutions, focusing on how FDA leaders Marty McCarey and Vinay Prasad weaponized vaccine myocarditis to undermine COVID vaccination efforts. With pediatric illnesses rising and the agency under fire from both scientists and extremists, this episode reveals how selective concern and ideological doublespeak are fueling a dangerous breakdown in science-based policy. It's a sobering look at the cost of playing politics with public health.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

The FDA is unraveling. Scientists are being fired, vaccine access is shrinking, and top researchers are fleeing the country. And at the center of the storm? RFK Jr.'s appointees—Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad—men who once sat behind keyboards criticizing pandemic policy, now wield real power with devastating results.

In this week's episode, Jonathan and Wendy walk us through the chaos: from dismissals without explanation to fabricated claims about who's being laid off, to the surreal moment when the very people who told us COVID was like the flu are now deciding who gets vaccinated. They call out journalist John Tierney for whitewashing pandemic history and expose the hypocrisy of pundits who cheered on herd immunity while vilifying actual public health officials.

This isn't just a takedown—it's a warning. When contrarians become the establishment, science doesn't just get silenced. It gets rewritten.

The FDA is unraveling. Scientists are being fired, vaccine access is shrinking, and top researchers are fleeing the country. And at the center of the storm? RFK Jr.'s appointees—Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad—men who once sat behind keyboards criticizing pandemic policy, now wield real power with devastating results.

In this week's episode, Jonathan and Wendy walk us through the chaos: from dismissals without explanation to fabricated claims about who's being laid off, to the surreal moment when the very people who told us COVID was like the flu are now deciding who gets vaccinated. They call out journalist John Tierney for whitewashing pandemic history and expose the hypocrisy of pundits who cheered on herd immunity while vilifying actual public health officials.

This isn't just a takedown—it's a warning. When contrarians become the establishment, science doesn't just get silenced. It gets rewritten.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

On this explosive Independence Day episode of We Want Them Infected, hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unravel a sobering transformation in U.S. public health. With agencies like the ACIP and NIH now steered by politically motivated leaders like RFK Jr., Vinay Prasad, and Jay Bhattacharya, science is taking a backseat to ideology. They dive deep into the disastrous ACIP meeting stacked with anti-vaccine appointees, the chilling disinformation from NIH and FDA leadership, and the real-world impact—from cancer patients being denied life-saving clinical trials to families unable to access COVID vaccines. This episode is a powerful wake-up call for anyone concerned about science, truth, and the future of medicine.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this powerful and deeply unsettling episode, Jonathan and Wendy take listeners on a guided tour of the growing dysfunction at America's top public health agencies. They expose the political entrenchment of ideologues like Vina Prasad and Marty Makary, the purging of veteran FDA scientists like Nicole Verdun, and the accelerating efforts to rubber-stamp drug approvals without oversight. Along the way, they dissect the roles of Jay Bhattacharya, Monica Gandhi, and others who—whether through naïveté or complicity—helped usher in a new era where science is optional and public health is performative. With deeply personal reflections, biting critique, and raw concern, they highlight a chilling truth: the institutions once trusted to safeguard health are now tools of political theater, and those who warned us early are watching their worst fears materialize.

Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print

The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.

The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.

The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.

The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.

Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals.

By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.