In this special episode, I sit down with my friend Frannie Wilson to interview her for my new book "The Ladders of Wealth. We explore her journey of running Ampersand Studios for over 16 years and how she’s reinventing her business after buying out her longtime partner.

Instead of having the conversation over a cup of coffee, we decided to record one in the studio instead. We dive into what it takes to scale an agency without burning out, why delegating fulfillment is critical, and how Frannie is using systems, subcontractors, and culture-building to position her team for growth.

She shares lessons from managing people, creating replicable offers, and handling the challenges of sales, client retention, and leadership.

If you’re navigating the leap from founder-doer to CEO—or building a creative agency that lasts—this episode is packed with insights.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:15 Frannie’s 16-year journey with Ampersand
04:00 Buying out her business partner and reinventing
07:05 Balancing recurring revenue and one-off projects
10:30 Delegating fulfillment and avoiding bottlenecks
13:55 Building systems and hiring contractors
17:30 The role of values and culture in small teams
22:10 Lessons from managing people and avoiding drama
27:30 Productizing services vs. custom work
33:00 Smarter hiring with test projects
39:30 Landing and qualifying clients the right way
52:30 Retaining clients and handling tough situations
59:45 Final reflections and advice

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Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

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Follow Frannie:
Instagram (personal): https://www.instagram.com/frannie_pack
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frannie-wilson
Ampersand Studios (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/ampersand_studios
Ampersand Studios (Website): https://ampersand-studios.com

Featured in this episode:
Ampersand Studios (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/ampersand_studios
Ampersand Studios: https://ampersand-studios.com/