In August of 2015 I was released as bishop, but my second counselor didn't show up to be release. I was concerned about what he was going through. A few months before that meeting Heath, my 2nd counselor, disclosed to me the faith struggle he was experiencing. He had been striving to put his doubts to rest and gain a new level of conviction to the Restored Gospel. I was even more shocked when he and his family removed their names from the rolls of the Church.

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Thankfully my friendship with Heath has continued. We have had many uplifting conversations over lunch. These discussions were so uplifting that Heath suggested I interview him for my podcast. He was mainly joking, but I liked the idea. It turned out to be a special experience for me. I have learned so much about faith and testimony, and what leaders need to be aware of when members in their ward doubt.

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I strongly encourage you to listen to the episode above and then share it with a leader and a friend.

Episode Summary

Heath is an immigration attorney in Salt Lake City, UT. He completed his undergraduate work at Brigham Young University-Idaho before graduating from the J. Reuben Clark Law School at Brigham Young University. He became active in the LDS Church as a Junior in high school and later served a mission to Ecuador. He has served as Elders Quorum President and most recently as Second Counselor in the bishopric when Kurt (podcast host) served as bishop. He, his wife and their three kids stopped attending church the day the bishopric was dissolved and in June 2016 chose to remove their names from church records.

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In this podcast Heath tells his story of the doubts he had, his struggles with uncertainty, the day he finally got an answer and how he has begun to feel more at peace since discovering others like him who are struggling with similar issues but who believe in the church and are still able to serve.

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Kurt also explores one of the most difficult questions facing leaders in the church: How to encourage individuals who are struggling in their faith—in their quest for certainty—without discouraging them or putting too much pressure on them to get there?

Podcast Summary with time marks (Transcript Available Below):

* Began to have concerns about certain aspects of church history in 2006 as a student at BYU-I (8:30)

* Began reading Rough Stone Rolling, a biography of Joseph Smith by author Richard Bushman

* Took a class in law school entitled "Joseph Smith and the Law" that caused further doubts on what he had read (11:20)

* Soon after law school, took a job at a non-profit in Salt Lake City and was called to serve as Elders Quorum President (13:45)

* Became consumed with the goal of extinguishing all doubts in order to feel like a more effective leader

* Continually prayed, fasted, attended the temple and did all of the things he was taught to do in order to receive the testimony he desired

* Feelings of uncertainty intensified when he was called as Second Counselor in the bishopric, as he felt he was supposed to know all of the answers whenever there was a question posed to him

* Desired to have the kind of testimony Elder Holland speaks of, one that is able to warm the hands of others, but got to a point where he could no longer say that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

* As he wanted to know more and more if Joseph was a prophet, and feeling like he couldn't get an answer or couldn't recognize it, he became increasingly depressed. Questioned if the problem was him. Was he not good enough? (24:00)

* Received an answer one Sunday afternoon that provided relief for a time. That relief was gradually replaced with thoughts of,