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What Science Really Says About Recovery With Dr. John Kelly
Harvard’s Dr. John Kelly joins Sisters in Sobriety to unpack the science of recovery, language, and what really works long-term.
Addiction recovery isn’t a mystery—it’s a science. Dr.Kelly, Professor of Psychiatry in Addiction Medicine and Founder of the Recovery Research Institute at Massachusetts General Hospital. Together, they explore what the data actually shows about recovery, relapse, language, and long-term healing—and how our understanding of addiction has evolved far beyond stigma and shame.
Throughout this conversation, Sonia and Kathleen unpack big questions about recovery and remission: Is addiction really a chronic disease—or does that label sometimes hurt more than it helps? How does the language we use—terms like “abuser,” “addict,” or even “clean”—impact recovery outcomes? And what does the evidence say about the effectiveness of AA compared to other programs and modern approaches to long-term sobriety?
They talk about key scientific and psychological concepts such as behavioral mechanisms of recovery, language-based stigma reduction, chronic disease framing, psychosocial support networks, and gender differences in relapse and recovery. Dr. Kelly explains why AA remains the most evidence-based recovery tool for alcohol use disorder, how social connection drives sustained remission, and why linking clinical care to community-based supports is critical to long-term success.
In the personal story segment, Sonia shares how fear of stigma once kept her from seeking help while she was still a practicing dentist—and how Dr. Kelly’s research validates those fears and offers a new framework for compassionate understanding. Together, they discuss what’s changing in the recovery landscape—from virtual meetings to redefining “recovery” itself—and how science is helping rewrite the story of what healing can look like.
This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol.
Check out our Substack for extra tips, tricks, and resources.
Episode Highlights (Time-Stamped)
00:00 – Sonia and Kathleen introduce Dr. John Kelly, Harvard Professor and Founder of the Recovery Research Institute.
01:30 – Dr. Kelly shares how personal experience drew him to addiction medicine.
03:10 – Why short-term treatment isn’t enough—and the importance of long-term recovery support.
04:20 – Understanding the “chronic disease” model of addiction: when it helps and when it harms.
05:45 – The surprising statistic: 72% of people with substance use disorders achieve sustained remission.
06:50 – How language shapes stigma—why “abuser” versus “person with a substance use disorder” matters.
08:40 – Studies showing clinicians and the public are both biased by the words we use.
10:30 – How self-stigma can lead to treatment dropout and hinder recovery.
12:15 – The neuroscience of addiction: how chronic exposure changes the brain.
14:10 – Why clinicians need better training in screening, coding, and compassionate documentation.
17:00 – Sonia shares her personal fear of seeking help due to professional stigma.
18:20 – What “recovery” really means—and how to define it beyond remission.
21:40 – Dr. Kelly’s analogy of photosynthesis and “psychosynthesis” in human recovery.
24:00 – What decades of research show about AA’s effectiveness and why it works.
26:40 – The difference between process addictions and substance use disorders.
27:40 – AA’s abstinence roots—and how it evolved over time.
31:10 – Who benefits most from AA, and who might need alternative programs.
34:00 – Comparing AA to Smart Recovery, LifeRing, and Women for Sobriety.
39:00 – The science behind why AA works: social networks, coping skills, and self-efficacy.
43:30 – Gender differences in recovery: how AA supports women differently than men.
48:00 – Dr. Kelly’s current research on relapse after long-term remission.
51:00 – His vision for an integrated, wraparound system of recovery support.
54:00 – How to reach the 80% of people with untreated addiction.
56:00 – The future of virtual recovery meetings and what researchers are exploring next.
57:00 – Final reflections on redefining recovery and sustaining remission over a lifetime.
Dr. Kelly's Links
🔗 Recovery Research Institute
🔗 Cochrane Systematic Review: Alcoholics Anonymous and Other 12-Step Programs
🔗 Cochrane Author Interview with Dr. John Kelly
SIS Links
💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen
📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email
📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram
🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast
📸 Kathleen’s Instagram
View all episodes
By Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen
4.8
2222 ratings
Harvard’s Dr. John Kelly joins Sisters in Sobriety to unpack the science of recovery, language, and what really works long-term.
Addiction recovery isn’t a mystery—it’s a science. Dr.Kelly, Professor of Psychiatry in Addiction Medicine and Founder of the Recovery Research Institute at Massachusetts General Hospital. Together, they explore what the data actually shows about recovery, relapse, language, and long-term healing—and how our understanding of addiction has evolved far beyond stigma and shame.
Throughout this conversation, Sonia and Kathleen unpack big questions about recovery and remission: Is addiction really a chronic disease—or does that label sometimes hurt more than it helps? How does the language we use—terms like “abuser,” “addict,” or even “clean”—impact recovery outcomes? And what does the evidence say about the effectiveness of AA compared to other programs and modern approaches to long-term sobriety?
They talk about key scientific and psychological concepts such as behavioral mechanisms of recovery, language-based stigma reduction, chronic disease framing, psychosocial support networks, and gender differences in relapse and recovery. Dr. Kelly explains why AA remains the most evidence-based recovery tool for alcohol use disorder, how social connection drives sustained remission, and why linking clinical care to community-based supports is critical to long-term success.
In the personal story segment, Sonia shares how fear of stigma once kept her from seeking help while she was still a practicing dentist—and how Dr. Kelly’s research validates those fears and offers a new framework for compassionate understanding. Together, they discuss what’s changing in the recovery landscape—from virtual meetings to redefining “recovery” itself—and how science is helping rewrite the story of what healing can look like.
This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol.
Check out our Substack for extra tips, tricks, and resources.
Episode Highlights (Time-Stamped)
00:00 – Sonia and Kathleen introduce Dr. John Kelly, Harvard Professor and Founder of the Recovery Research Institute.
01:30 – Dr. Kelly shares how personal experience drew him to addiction medicine.
03:10 – Why short-term treatment isn’t enough—and the importance of long-term recovery support.
04:20 – Understanding the “chronic disease” model of addiction: when it helps and when it harms.
05:45 – The surprising statistic: 72% of people with substance use disorders achieve sustained remission.
06:50 – How language shapes stigma—why “abuser” versus “person with a substance use disorder” matters.
08:40 – Studies showing clinicians and the public are both biased by the words we use.
10:30 – How self-stigma can lead to treatment dropout and hinder recovery.
12:15 – The neuroscience of addiction: how chronic exposure changes the brain.
14:10 – Why clinicians need better training in screening, coding, and compassionate documentation.
17:00 – Sonia shares her personal fear of seeking help due to professional stigma.
18:20 – What “recovery” really means—and how to define it beyond remission.
21:40 – Dr. Kelly’s analogy of photosynthesis and “psychosynthesis” in human recovery.
24:00 – What decades of research show about AA’s effectiveness and why it works.
26:40 – The difference between process addictions and substance use disorders.
27:40 – AA’s abstinence roots—and how it evolved over time.
31:10 – Who benefits most from AA, and who might need alternative programs.
34:00 – Comparing AA to Smart Recovery, LifeRing, and Women for Sobriety.
39:00 – The science behind why AA works: social networks, coping skills, and self-efficacy.
43:30 – Gender differences in recovery: how AA supports women differently than men.
48:00 – Dr. Kelly’s current research on relapse after long-term remission.
51:00 – His vision for an integrated, wraparound system of recovery support.
54:00 – How to reach the 80% of people with untreated addiction.
56:00 – The future of virtual recovery meetings and what researchers are exploring next.
57:00 – Final reflections on redefining recovery and sustaining remission over a lifetime.
Dr. Kelly's Links
🔗 Recovery Research Institute
🔗 Cochrane Systematic Review: Alcoholics Anonymous and Other 12-Step Programs
🔗 Cochrane Author Interview with Dr. John Kelly
SIS Links
💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen
📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email
📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram
🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast
📸 Kathleen’s Instagram
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