Future Around & Find Out

What should kids study? How should AI help? Khan Academy's learning chief on productive struggle


Listen Later

So what the heck should kids be studying today!?


That's my opening question to Khan Academy's Chief Learning Officer, Kristen DiCerbo, a learning and AI expert who is back for her second appearance on the show. 

We discuss:

  • Kristen's advice for what to study today: fundamentals, AI literacy, and critical thinking
  • How helpful should AI be? 
  • Why the productive struggle is critical to learning, but also why we shouldn't "fetishize" struggle
  • When should AI be Socratic — "and why do you think that?" — and when should it just give you the answer?
  • The "5% problem" — why edtech that's proven to work still barely gets used
  • How Khan Academy overhauled its classroom platform and evolved Khanmigo from a standalone chatbot into something woven into the whole learning experience
  • Personalization that actually works 
  • How Khan Academy uses LLMs as judges to evaluate 20,000 student interactions a day
  • The scenario planning report that imagines deepfakes of school principals and AI going underground in schools
  • What parents should be asking their kids' schools about AI right now
  • What it looks like when a school implements AI well — and what it looks like when they don't

Chapters:

  • (01:44) - What the heck should kids be studying right now?
  • (03:55) - Teaching critical thinking in the age of AI
  • (06:37) - What successful schools are doing differently
  • (08:37) - The real risk: not that kids use AI too much, but that they don't use it enough
  • (10:52) - My 13-year-old has to check five apps just to find his homework
  • (11:52) - "Beyond the AI inflection point" — three scenarios, none of them great
  • (16:30) - Should we just make every school a trade school?
  • (19:41) - What should parents be asking their kids' schools?
  • (22:27) - Khan Academy's Winchester Mystery House problem
  • (26:28) - Personalized learning — what works and what surprisingly doesn't
  • (29:32) - Kids are bad at asking questions and that's actually the point
  • (32:01) - "I DON'T KNOW" in all capital letters — the Socratic method's breaking point
  • (34:26) - Should an AI tutor give tough love?
  • (37:01) - Why Khanmigo is fundamentally different from ChatGPT
  • (40:11) - Don't fetishize struggle — but your kid still needs it
  • (42:39) - Khan Academy's productive struggle: building evals from scratch
  • (45:41) - What gives Kristen optimism

  • Support Future Around & Find Out
    • Follow Dan on LinkedIn
    • Get the free Future Around & Find Out newsletter
    • Become a paid subscriber and help future proof the podcast!

    Sponsor the show? 

    • Are you looking to reach an audience of senior technologists and decision-makers? Email me: [email protected]

    ---
    Music by Jonathan Zalben

    ...more
    View all episodesView all episodes
    Download on the App Store

    Future Around & Find OutBy Dan Blumberg

    • 4.2
    • 4.2
    • 4.2
    • 4.2
    • 4.2

    4.2

    49 ratings


    More shows like Future Around & Find Out

    View all
    This Week in Startups by Jason Calacanis

    This Week in Startups

    1,296 Listeners

    The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch by Harry Stebbings

    The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch

    536 Listeners

    The a16z Show by Andreessen Horowitz

    The a16z Show

    1,105 Listeners

    Azeem Azhar's Exponential View by Azeem Azhar

    Azeem Azhar's Exponential View

    616 Listeners

    Masters of Scale by WaitWhat

    Masters of Scale

    3,992 Listeners

    Practical AI by Practical AI LLC

    Practical AI

    212 Listeners

    My First Million by Hubspot Media

    My First Million

    2,660 Listeners

    The Next Big Idea by Next Big Idea Club

    The Next Big Idea

    1,281 Listeners

    All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg by All-In Podcast, LLC

    All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

    10,254 Listeners

    Big Technology Podcast by Alex Kantrowitz

    Big Technology Podcast

    512 Listeners

    The Artificial Intelligence Show by Paul Roetzer and Mike Kaput

    The Artificial Intelligence Show

    214 Listeners

    Business Breakdowns by Colossus | Investing & Business Podcasts

    Business Breakdowns

    355 Listeners

    The Startup Ideas Podcast by Greg Isenberg

    The Startup Ideas Podcast

    211 Listeners

    BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley by BG2Pod

    BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley

    475 Listeners

    TBPN by John Coogan & Jordi Hays

    TBPN

    140 Listeners