Who Am I Really?

Melissa, who called me from Harrison, Arkansas, says she always felt chosen and grateful for her adoption. But after decades of peace with her origin story, something shifted. A small-town newspaper article, a newborn daughter, and an aging parent all conspired to push her toward a search.

When the time was finally right—when a DNA match opened the door to her paternal family—she stepped forward in grace, only to be met with silence on her maternal side. Melissa took a clandestine trip to see the woman her half-sisters had been blocking access to.

This is Melissa’s journey.

The Adoptee Experience

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Ryan, from Edinburgh, Scotland, grew up ashamed of his Moroccan heritage and faced bullying due to his background and religion. At 18, a letter from his mother revealed his adoption, shaking his world and leading him to hide the truth for 13 years. Ryan struggled with depression, substance abuse, and a pervasive sense of otherness. Eventually Ryan confronted his adoption trauma, seeking therapy and connecting with the adoptee community. Ryan's continues his relentless search for his birth family in Morocco.

This is Ryan's journey.

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Katie was adopted from China as a baby and raised in a predominantly white suburb south of Boston. Her adoptive family gave her a life full of opportunity—but as she grew older, the distance between who she was and the world around her only deepened. In this episode, Katie shares how her search for identity has expanded beyond finding her birth parents. She opens up about being raised without cultural mirrors, navigating the silence around her story, and reclaiming pieces of herself that were left behind.

This is Katie's journey.

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George grew up in Soviet Georgia knowing he was different—both visibly and emotionally—in a society where adoption and his sexuality were dangerous secrets. He spent his early life navigating fear, hiding truths, and surviving systems designed to silence him.

When a search angel from Russia responded to a single Facebook post, everything changed. George embarked on a digital trail of late-night texts, uncovering the truth of his birth, a sister who had been searching for him for 50 years, and a family that thought he was lost forever.

George shares how he’s learning to trust again—reclaiming a birthday, a name, and a history that had been buried for decades.

This is George’s journey.

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 Forrest's life began in chaos, abuse, and danger at home and in the foster care system. Forest says he joined the military to make an honorable exit from this life and shares the moment he found his calling as a tattoo artist to his brothers in Iraq.

But when Fort decided to get his passport, the process revealed that he had been adopted by a devious woman who had taken him in, but had never told him her plans.

Today he has transformed his life into one of purpose and healing.

This is Forrest's journey.

Angel Blue - A Song of Redemption, by Forrest Lang

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 Raised in the mountains of the midwest, Misty endured neglect and abuse when she was a child. She took matters into her own hands to separate from her family, survived a period in foster care, then was adopted by her extended family. Misty, was forced to learn what life should be like in a properly functioning family while unlearning what she had experienced in her first family. Today Misty uses lessons from her past to maintain stoicism to move forward in life.

This is Misty's journey.

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Dr. Amy Geller, from Wykoff New Jersey, had had an idyllic adopted life as the youngest child and the only girl in her family.  But an accidental discovery put her in front of her adoptive parents facing an uncomfortable situation and feelings she chose to bury. As a young adult, Amy was found by her birth mother, found herself angered by the intrusion, but had the presence of mind to pause to gather herself in order to enter reunion with caution.

 Today, Amy is a therapist and adoption researcher with an exciting new online resource called Adult-Adoptees.com.

Ride with us on Peloton: #AdopteeVoices

This is Amy's journey.

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Tezita (te zi TA) called me from Sacramento, CA, but she tells a harrowing story that originates in Ethiopia. Tezita’s adopted family had many other international adoptees, but she was singled out for solitary confinement. She was sent back to her homeland where she thrived mentally in a boarding school away from her adopters. When she returned she witnessed more abuse and decided she’d had enough. Kicked out of the family, she was forced to thrive independently relying on her communities in faith and adoption.This is Tezita’s journey. 

Carrie called me from Lynchburg, Virginia. In her journey you’ll hear her talk about the moment she realized she was found, and how she was in contact with her birth parents at the same time one the same day. Carrie talks about two amazing reunions: one where she got to see her birth mother in competition, the other where she got to meet her maternal and paternal siblings together. She also talks about herself as an adoptive mother to a special young man who came into her life at a time when he needed her most. This is Carrie’s journey… 

Carrie (00:03):

One reason why it's all been so positive for me is that, you know, the minute I learned that they were looking for me, it was kind of like, Oh, well, they really did want me, you know, like they really did. You know, it wasn't like I was just discarded or somebody's secret or anything. No.

Damon (00:25):

Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? This is who am I really a podcast about adoptees that have located and connected with their biological family members. I'm Damon Davis and on today's show is Carrie. She called me from Lynchburg, Virginia, in her journey you'll hear her talk about the moment she realized she was found and how she was in contact with her birth parents at the same time. On the same day, Carrie talks about two amazing reunions. One where she got to see her birth mother in competition, the other, where she got to meet her maternal and paternal siblings together. She also talks about herself as an adoptive mother to a special young man who came into her life at a time when he needed her most. This is Carrie's journey.

Damon (01:29):

I had the good fortune to interview Carrie on January 2nd, 2020. I wished her a happy new year and added what a special anniversary this day was in her life. One year ago, that day was the first time Carrie had received an email from her biological mother over the holidays. Last year, she received a generic piece of mail that looked like a credit card offer or something. So she just stuffed it in her purse and dismissed it on new year's Eve. She was cleaning out her purse when she found the correspondence that said the sender's client was looking for someone that they thought might be Carrie, the woman who sent the letter was out for the holidays. So she didn't receive Carrie's reply until she returned to the office on January 2nd, 2019. Before we get to that though, let's go back to the beginning. I mean, you didn't think we were just going to jump right into the good part. Did you? I asked Carrie to tell me about adoption for her as a kid in her family and in her community. She said she was adopted at six weeks old from Catholic family services in Roanoke, Virginia. She grew up in a small town called Alta Vista, South of Lynchburg, Virginia.

Carrie (02:45):

I have had the most amazing parents. I mean, I have never wanted for anything. I've never known anything other than a house full of love, um, which has been super amazing. And, um, I think actually kind of this year has really highlighted that more for me and given me a bigger sense of appreciation for all that I have had growing up,

Damon (03:08):

Carrie had one brother, six years older than her. So he had his own set of friends. She said she was alone a lot. So she played make-believe games, did art and entertained herself. In her small town she grew up through school with nearly all of the same friends until she went away to college. She said when she was a kid, people in the community would often say she looked like her adopted mother.

Carrie (03:34):

She would look at me and be like, should we tell him? And so we would always say, you know, well, I'm adopted. And so I've known, you know, since before I can remember that I was adopted, um, it's never been secret or anything, you know, I don't even really remember how I found out. Uh, I just know that I've always known

Damon (03:53):

Carrie said she always got support, love, hugs, and kisses. She can't even remember any tough discipline growing up. Carrie said she could go on and on about her parents and how she shares their taste in music. She's good at fixing things like her father and she enjoys having her mother edit her writing, even though as an English teacher, she can be pretty brutal. Carrie said that as adults, she and her brother have gotten closer these days, enjoying memories with their parents. Carrie went to show on university in North Carolina, graduating with a graphic design degree, then went on to old dominion university, achieving a master's in higher education. When she met her husband back in the Hampton roads area at ODU, they decided to move back to Lynchburg. So with what sounds like a wonderful life and no gaping holes to fill in her identity, I asked if she ever wanted to search for her biological relatives, access to the internet, sparked a nascent curiosity that had her going online, adding her name to adoption registries. But it was just a mild curiosity because it was the first time she had that level of access to information. Then a few years later,

Carrie (05:08):

Maybe two or three years into our marriage, um, uh, we were talking about, you know, maybe having kids and seeing how that would go. Um, you know, that got me really curious as far as like my medical history and all that kind of stuff, which I think is pretty common. A big question people have when they're adopted is, you know, what the heck? And especially like going to the doctors throughout my whole life, they're like, what's your family history? And I had to go through the whole thing. I don't know. You know? So, um, finally I was like, well, if I'm gonna try to bring a child into the world and I probably should have some information,

Damon (05:48):

One of Carrie's friends who had done extensive adoption research, turned his skills towards her story. Then he gave her some information about herself on a whim, on a shopping trip in Roanoke, Virginia, about an hour from her home, Carrie proposed dropping into the courthouse. She gave the clerk, the information, her friend had dug up about her. The woman went away, but came back empty handed, saying her records were sealed and Carrie would have to petition the court to access them. She wasn't so interested in accessing her information that she wanted to pursue a court case. So she just kind of let it go. That was five years ago, a short while after that, Carrie is going to work on the final day of a job that she was miserable in on that very last day of work.

Carrie (06:39):

I got an email from a guy, um, who thought that he might be my brother and he thought I was his sister. I mean, he had just learned that his mom has had a baby and given her up for adoption, same day that I was born from the same hospital where I was born. And so he was trying to find his sister. And so he had found my information on whatever that site was that I had registered on years ago. And so he just reached out to me, hoping that I was his sister and I wasn't, but I know it's really weird is this guy actually lived in the town where I had worked for four years. And I got the email from him the last day that I worked there because I had quit my job. And so it was my final day driving to this place. And this kid had emailed me and we shared pictures and I was convinced that we were, we were related, even people near me. You know, my friends were like, Oh my gosh, he looks just like you, you know, that can really be your brother. That's a very strange, very strange.

Damon (07:37):

In December, 2018, Carrie got the nondescript letter that she thought looked like junk mail, but for whatever reason, she kept and put in her purse on Christmas Eve, Carrie cleaned out her purse and she opened the letter. She had stowed away. The author alluded to their client who was searching for a biological relative that the sender thought could possibly be Carrie and asked her to email or call.

Carrie (08:04):

Even when I finally opened it, I was like, Oh gosh, am I gonna, what am I going to do? Is this is Pam? I don't know. Do I want it? You nail them. I know it was crazy in my head for a little bit.

Damon (08:13):

I can only imagine the woman was out of the office for the holiday break. So she emailed Carrie back on January 2nd, 2019. Carrie works as the secretary for a church that afternoon. It was quiet at work. No one was around just Carrie. The woman returned Carrie's email early that afternoon, asking for confirming details about her biological family to determine if they had made a match. Carrie confirmed her date of birth, the hospital, where she was born and the organization through which she was adopted. She also highlighted that her birth mother had five siblings, a distinguishing factor from the young man who reached out to about possibly being her brother. His mother only had one brother, the woman emailed a reply to say she was going to touch base with her client. Then get back to Carrie.

Carrie (09:06):

And like 20 minutes later, she emailed me again. And she said that, um, her client said that all of those things matched, you know, she had those many sisters and the knee surgery and she wanted to be a writer and she played softball and all these little things. And, uh, and that she was very, very certain that Pam was my biological mother. And so she asked what I wanted to do if I wanted to call her or what. And I said, well, just give her an email address for now, because this is so new. And you know, I'm like freaking out in the office. I'm like hyperventilating and crying. And like, nobody's there to help me with this or witnessed this happening, which I'm kinda thankful for. Cause it was nice to have my own private moment, I guess it was just really cool. And then maybe 10 minutes later, Pam emailed me and she said, hi, I'm Pam. And a lady tells me that you're in my birth. You know, my biological daughter. And um, you know, it was a very introductory email, you know, she's like, I live with my husband, we had two children, you know, it was just very basic. Like I'm Pam. I would love to get to know you

Damon (10:18):

In reply. Carrie wrote back how crazy the whole thing was and that she was glad Pam had found her. Of course, in that brief period between Pam searcher, finding Carrie and Pam writing back, Carrie had Facebook investigated Pam. She saw Pam's photo a picture of her half sister and already recognized how much they looked alike during the email exchange. Pam asked if she could share Carrie's email address with her birth father and Carrie said, yes.

Carrie (10:51):

So then later in the evening he actually emailed me too. So I heard from both of them in the same day, it was nice. It was. Yeah. Yeah. So they're not together. Um, they were not together after my conception.

Damon (11:07):

I reiterated to Carrie what a massively heavy day. It must have been for her going from a letter. She nearly threw away before the holidays to emailing with both of her parents in the new year. She said the whole thing was just nuts in the best way possible. She described it like a lifetime movie playing out in front of her, except it was about her. Since Carrie was introduced to both of her birth parents on the same day, we decided to focus on her birth mother's piece of their story first. Pam sent Carrie a Facebook request to be in closer contact, but Carrie waited a while to accept the new connection. She wanted to make sure she spoke with her parents first. So they knew all that had happened so rapidly. And wouldn't surprised Carrie and Pam texted back and forth on Facebook messenger. First communicating with ease.

Carrie (12:01):

You just chatted. I mean like we had, you know, just known each other for a long time already. I mean, it was just, it was so easy. I mean she know questions, like why did you give me up for adoption? And you know what, my medical history and you know, all these, I mean, I asked all the questions and it was like one 24 hour period. Every question of my life has been answered. Um, so that was pretty amazing.

Damon (12:29):

And what was the story that she told you?

Carrie (12:32):

Um, well she says that her parents, she got pregnant when she was 17. Um, and her parents were not okay with it. Um, they were about their appearance and didn't like how that would look for their family. Um, and so they sent her away, um, when she was like four, four months pregnant, I think, um, to live with her sister in Roanoke, which is how I came to be in Virginia because the rest of the family is in Arizona. So that's actually something pretty crazy is, um, you know, I never in my whole entire life ever imagined that my biological family members would be anywhere other than Roanoke. And I know that's kind of small minded, I think, but looking back, I think it is, but it's, you know, I just never even thought, Oh, that could be somewhere else. And I can remember going to Roanoke, you know, we wouldn't go there often, but I mean, it's closer, bigger metropolis metropolis area from Lynchburg, we'd go there to shop or whatever.

Carrie (13:36):

And I can remember being hyper aware of the faces that I would see in Roanoke thinking, Oh my gosh, that person could be my mother or that person could be my brother or whatever. And we actually went to Roanoke not too long after the first email exchanges. And I remember thinking on the way there, you know, I don't, I don't have to do that anymore cause I know who the people are now and they're not in Roanoke. So her parents sent her away, um, and said, you know, go live with your sister and run off, have a baby. And if you want to come back and don't bring the baby back. And I think it was much worse than that. I mean, it's easier to talk about it for me because I mean, I was, you know, I was a baby I don't, I don't remember any of that, you know, but I know that it was very hurtful for Pam. I can't imagine being a 17 year old pregnant woman and going through that, I mean, it was 80, it was 1982 and they sent her away. I was born in 83. So, you know, unwed mothers was a big taboo thing. I mean,

Damon (14:34):

And even the way you described it, it may not have been verbatim what they said to her, but just the way you termed it, if you want to come back, don't bring the baby back. That in and of itself is harsh and like decisions

Damon (14:52):

It's yeah, it's up to you. Um, and you know, you can either come back and be part of this family or by, and that sounds horrible.

Carrie (15:01):

Yeah. I can imagine. I cannot imagine my parents trying to tell

Diane called me from St. Petersburg, Florida, but her’s is a story that originated in Germany. Diane tells the story of her parents wanting to form a family with her, but her grandmother frequently talking about her adoption such that no one could ever move on. On a trip back to Germany, Diane stood in the orphanage where her story originated, but answers to her questions were not to be had. It turned out that her birth father was her first connection, and he led her back to her birth mother’s family. Diane met her birth mother’s widower who said her mother always searched for her, and made him promise to accept her if Diane were ever found.

This is Diane’s journey

The post 103 – Fixing The Fates appeared first on Who Am I...Really? Podcast.

Damon (00:00):

Hey there. I just wanted to take a sec to let you know that I took time to write a book about my own adoption journey. It's called, who am I really? Of course, go to who am I really? podcast.com and click shop. I hope to make it to your reading list. Okay, here's this week's show.

Diane (00:22):

He said, I've always wanted to meet you. She told me all about you. She told me that she was going to look for you and she did look for you that for the rest of her life she tried to find you and they couldn't. They wouldn't. They wouldn't let her have the records and he said during the 50s when they were courting, she had made him promise. She told him about me before they were married and she'd made him promise to be my father if she ever found me.

Damon (00:55):

Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?

Damon (01:02):

Who am I? Who am I? This is who am I really a podcast about adoptees that have located and connected with their biological family members. I'm Damon Davis and today you're going to meet Diane. She called me from st Petersburg, Florida, but hers is a story that originated in Germany. Diane tells the story of her parents wanting to form a family with her, but her grandmother frequently talking about her adoption such that no one could ever move on. On a trip back to Germany Diane stood in the orphanage where her story originated, but answers to her questions were not to be had. Diane met her birth mother's widower who said her mother always searched for her and made him promise to accept her. If Diane were ever found. This is Diane's journey. Diane was an only child in her adopted family in Philadelphia. She says her adoptive mother was related to the people who ran the orphanage she came from in Germany.

Diane (02:08):

I had a kind of six degrees of separation kind of experience because my parents, my adoptive parents in Philadelphia were related to the person who ran the orphanage in Germany. Um, so what had happened was I was surrendered in a German orphanage at age one. Um, and prior to that I was in what's called a kinder home. So it's a children's home, but the mother, the biological mother can still visit you there. None of this I was aware of, but what I was aware of from a very early age and all along was that I was adopted and was that I was in a German orphanage and that my adoptive maternal grandmother's brother ran that orphanage, that he was a child psychologist. And the implication was always that, um, you know, I was lucky to escape the fate of being in that orphanage. I was lucky to have been brought to America, to these loving parents outside of Philadelphia and to be raised in this comfortable home. Um, so, so that was, my awareness was kind of a, a kind of survivor's guilt or, or a kind of a feeling of escape. Like I had escaped from something and I was just sort of like, whew, that's a good thing. You know, that's, that's past, that's behind me

Damon (03:40):

as a first generation immigrant family. Her adoptive mother's mother had moved to the United States from Germany and she lived close to them in Philadelphia. They had many family meals together and it was she who communicated the idea that Diane had been lucky to escape and was very proud of the fact that her brother ran the orphanage and basically brokered Diane's adoption. He had sent her parents photos of Diane and made the recommendation for her adoption.

Diane (04:08):

She communicated it. Um, I think she was proud of the role that she played in it. She was proud of her brother. I think my adoptive parents, they could have done with less of this story floating around all the time.

Damon (04:21):

Why do you say that?

Diane (04:21):

Um, well I think they just wanted to get on with it. Right. They were coming out of that time of loss of not being able to conceive as a young married couple and they kind of wanted to put that period behind and they didn't, I think they wouldn't have kept that story alive as much as my grandmother did. Um, you know, she was always saying, well, I, I, I'm the one who went and got you. I flew over there and we got you from the orphanage and I brought you here. And they had this film of her descending the plane steps and those days you went down onto the tarmac and carrying me and bringing me into the terminal at Philadelphia airport and handing a to my, to my mother, my awaiting mother and father. So it was just this moment of pride that she had where I think my parents were much more interested in me assimilating and in them completing their lifelong wish or their wish together as a couple to have a child to kind of complete their family and to complete a dream, you know?

Damon (05:32):

Yeah. That's an interesting thing. It's in any sort of challenging, deeply emotional situation. There are those who want to move on from it. Like you want to acknowledge it, you have lived it, that has happened and now you know it's time to move on with life. And then there are those who have also been in this situation and they keep saying, you remember the time you remember back then? Oh my gosh, I remember when, and you, and they prevent you from moving forward. And it's, that can be an interesting juxtaposition for, and especially as you've said, your parents were trying to move on also from the probable pain of not being able to conceive a child themselves. And so here's, you know, her own mother, this was your mother's mother, you know, this is her, you're her own mother who's constantly saying, you remember the time when I brought you this baby? That must've been really tough. Huh?

Diane (06:31):

I really agree. And I think it's a brilliant point because there is a way in which the wound never quite healed over. Right. It's constantly being re-exposed. And I think that for my mother, I think that was aggravating. And for me, you know, I kind of adapted this source of pride. Like I assimilated my grandmothers message. I was lucky to be here. I was lucky to have this family. I was lucky to have this situation. Um, it was unique. It was somehow special. Um, it differentiated me. But then as time goes on, as a kid, you just want to blend in. You, you don't want this story anymore. You want to just be a cool kid like everybody else on the block and not be special anymore. And it won't go away.

Damon (07:22):

When Diane was about seven years old, she thought perhaps she was going to have an adopted sibling. She had opened her mother's desk drawer where she found an envelope with an assortment of photos of children, including herself.

Diane (07:36):

And I saw my own picture and all these other kids. And I remember just like sitting back on my heels, like, you know the sweat, you know, you're just sort of perspire. You just are, you know, you're just hot. Suddenly. It's like,

Damon (07:50):

it's that adrenaline rush of,

Diane (07:52):

right, right. And you're seeing actually the reason you came, you know, you there was you and there was this description of you and I was at, had a sunny disposition. That's what they said. Um, and I was, you know, and I was struck by that because I thought, well that's, I have to keep that up, right. I have to keep up that sunny disposition. Or else? I might have to be sent back, you know, returned or something. Um,

Damon (08:19):

it was like, it was, this was part of your, the sales pitch, the marketing material around you.

Diane (08:26):

Exactly. This is how I was promoted. So I mean, um, but you know, I, I kind of was that same time, it got lodged into my consciousness at that point that I, that I had to keep that, that game on. So I had to ask her, you know, are you, am I getting a brother or sister or, you know, I had to obliquely ask or, um, it turns out that they never adopted other children. Um, so

Diane (08:55):

my curiosity about what that might be like was, you know, if that was, that was the end of that.

Damon (09:01):

Hmm. That's really interesting. Can you remember examples of, of times when you felt like, Oh, this is one of those moments where I better look sunny and have a sunny disposition or just did it, how did it impact your personality? I mean, I get the impression that it was in fact very much part of you anyway. But I get the impression also that there were times when you thought to yourself, Ooh, this is might be one of those moments.

Diane (09:27):

Well, you know, when you were like introduced, um, to other kids, like two other, you know, couples, kids and um, especially, you know, well, I mean it could be a girl or a boy, but, um, I can remember thinking, um, you know, because it would be, you know, if, especially if my grandmother was present, it would be, well, and she's the girl that we got, you know, from Germany. Um, and, and I'd be like, I just want that to go right. Or I just wanted to own the information. I said I was much too young to be able to say that that was what I was feeling, but I wanted to express it when I was ready to express it and on my own terms. Um, and so I might be thinking to myself, Oh, now that little boy knows that about me and I'd have to stand there and be kind of performing this happiness ritual of yes, you're, I am the happiest smiling child who was lucky to be in this family.

Diane (10:28):

You know, and of course I was lucky there was but, but there is that lack of agency, right? There's no owning your situation. It's actually kind of um, manufactured for you, uh, on a kind of a continual basis. And, and I think that something that a lot of us adoptees really struggle with is just being able to own your own narrative. There's no way of preempting it. There's no way of holding it as your own until much later. You know, when you're out of the house and out of the story and, and, and you, you know, look like others and people don't know that you're necessarily adopted. And, um, that seems more organic to me and more natural.

Damon (11:19):

When Diane was 17 years old, her grandmother took her back to Germany. It was a coming of age Rite of passage for her, her grandmother. And adoptive mother had been returning to Germany for years, visiting family and friends in their home land. The family was making every effort to maintain their ancestral connections.

Diane (11:38):

But of course for me it was much more loaded than that. I was tapping into something, a Lodestar, a kind of a home, um, if you will. And so for me it was completely different experience than going back and meeting all the aunts and uncles and sitting around and having coffee klatch and um, you know, yes, I, I was happy to learn about my German heritage. I was more than fascinated to learn more about my adoptive, um relatives. But there was something in me that was just instantly galvanized, you know, when my grandmothers said, okay, well we've gone to Germany now four or five times and now these aunts and uncles would like to meet you. And you know, it's time that you went back to, you know, our Homeland. And I'm thinking about, it's my homeland too. And you know, for me, I was instantly like riveted by the idea of going to Germany because I knew that for me it's symbolized much, much more than just it tripped back to the old country.

Damon (12:43):

Let's consider the family dynamic for just a moment. Diane's grandmother, a native German who only learned English when she arrived in the States, felt a deeper connection to her country than her daughter, a woman born and raised in America. So naturally the trips back to Germany meant a lot more to Diane's grandmother because she was truly going home to the place where she grew up. So Diane's parents didn't go with her on that first trip to Germany. It was just Diane and her grandmother. They visited her grandmother's family in a small town of only a few thousand inhabitants in the Southwest region of the country, a Northern suburb of Stuttgart. Diane knew from her grandmother that she was born in Stuttgart that the orphanage or Kindler Haim was also in stood guard and she got the sense that those details really should be enough to satisfy her about her own origins.

Diane (13:36):

Just knowing this much would should be enough. And um, anything else would be when I met, finally met this uncle, um, my grandmother's brother, he told me flat out, but anything else would be just too confusing. And children were not meant to know about their biological families that would make their loyalties divided and they were only to have one family. That's how it was to be. And that the only way to cement that in your heart was to not know anything else about their biological family. But he held firm on this idea that one family. And of course inside me, I, there was just this loud protestation I thought, no, I love my parents. I will never not love my parents, my adoptive parents. I simply need to know. And also I was so close, you know, so channelizing here I was talking to people that I knew full well. He must know and, and no, but it was a kind of like the, the glass door just dropped down right there. Like just couldn't ask or you couldn't know. You could ask, but it was futile.

Damon (14:46):

That glass door coming down, blocking Diane from