In this conversation, Zoë chats with Professor Norman Fenton, a professor of risk at Queen Mary University about his book 'Fighting Goliath and his insights on COVID-19, the flawed narratives surrounding the pandemic, and the implications of lockdowns and vaccinations. Fenton discusses the inaccuracies in PCR testing, the misclassification of COVID-19 cases and deaths, and the psychological tactics used to manipulate public perception.