When learning the Enneagram and figuring out your number, one thing that complicates things is trauma and the effect of trauma on personality development and theory. I always say, I think personality, just the defensive nature of the personality thickens on people with trauma. The staircase is steeper that we have to climb.

Our guest in this two-part episode is not sure if he's a 9 or a 7. And so during the show, we actually get into it, we actually help Author Paul Young nail it in the second episode.