Show Summary:

Lucas Underwood hosts an open AMA with industry veteran Cecil Bullard, digging into how macro “yellow flags” (rising delinquencies) typically boost repair demand, and why cash flow and reserves determine who survives slowdowns. They unpack practical pricing: when to use a parts matrix, target tire margins, and why some items belong outside the matrix. The duo stresses hospitality-driven experiences, disciplined shop-supplies billing, and charging properly for diesel and specialty work. They outline a hiring sequence for growth, the productivity pitfalls that kill profit, and a simple framework for net cash flow after taxes and distributions. Throughout, they challenge discount mindsets and make the case for sustainable, unapologetic profitability.

Host(s):

Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast

Guest(s):

Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute

Show Highlights:

[00:01:00] - Economic “yellow lights” often push savvy consumers to fix, not replace; repair demand typically rises in these cycles.

[00:02:41] - Cash is oxygen—without 3–6 months of operating reserves, a short dip can shutter a shop.

[00:05:27] - Use separate strategies for items like tires, batteries, wipers, and fluids; some don’t belong in the standard parts matrix.

[00:09:28] - Thoughtful hospitality (even small freebies) wins loyalty—fund it by protecting margins elsewhere.

[00:14:01] - Compete on experience and trust, not price; most customers aren’t comparison-shopping 15 quotes.

[00:17:40] - Target ~35–40% gross margin on tires and price installation to hit labor GP goals; kits (TPMS, weights) lift the job’s GP.

[00:23:28] - Shop supplies like brake cleaner, bolts, clamps, and zip ties are parts—track and bill them, don’t give them away.

[00:29:40] - Diesel and fleet uptime are high stakes; charge your standard matrix and prioritize speed and correctness.

[00:36:32] - Hiring order for growth: add tech → second tech → third tech + service advisor; long-term, 5–6 techs to 2 advisors runs smoothly.

[00:49:14] - Aim for ~20% net; expect ~⅓ taxes, ~⅓ reinvestment, ~⅓ distributions—build real cash flow, not vanity revenue.

👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/QFB6oUOLIwc

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Episode Transcript:

Lucas Underwood: What is up everybody? My name is Lucas Underwood. I'm the owner of l and n Performance Automotive Repair, out here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina, and I'm one of the hosts of the Changing the Industry podcast. And today I have with me the Almighty Cecil Bullard. Cecil, how you doing, buddy?

Cecil Bullard: I'm doing great buddy.

Cecil Bullard: I don't know about Almighty. Some days it's like almost mighty or something. I don't know.

Lucas Underwood: Maybe just almost right?

Cecil Bullard: Almost is probably better. I'm great, Lucas. I'm great.

Lucas Underwood: Very good. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna jump right into some questions. We have, uh, some great questions over here on the side. Got some folks.

Lucas Underwood: I know Craig's in here, lots of folks asking questions already, but one of the things that came up in the changing the industry podcast group, first thing this morning is I posted something about some credit card debt delinquencies and posted some stuff about commercial delinquencies Now. I should, I should admit there's a caveat to this because when you put this out over the max span, that they've collected these numbers and have the data for this, we can see that these numbers aren't too high.

Lucas Underwood: Right now they're about 1.5, five to 2%, somewhere in there. Back in 2008, they were in the seven and 8% range, so they're not that high, but we are starting to kind of see those go up. Now what I said in the group was, is typically this is a good thing for auto repair because you're really financially savvy consumers.

Lucas Underwood: The ones that our shops typically work for are watching these warning signs. They're not flashing red, they're flashing yellow, and they're saying, Hey. Maybe I better back up a little bit. Maybe I don't buy that brand new Denali. Maybe I fix the one that I have now. Cecil, what does this mean for auto repair?

Lucas Underwood: When we start seeing some of these yellow warning signs flash,

Cecil Bullard: I think in, in every instance so far, um, auto repair, uh, succeeds, uh, greatly. And I think that's why you see venture capital really taking a serious look after 2020, uh, in every, you know, uh, when the. Gas crisis hit, uh, people kept their cars and spent money on them.

Cecil Bullard: When, uh, uh, the housing crisis hit 2008, 2009, same thing, uh, Enron before that, uh, same thing. Uh, during COVID, uh, we were an essential service. And while the restaurants were losing money and closing down and, and all of the other services, the hotels, uh, automotive was, uh, hitting record, uh, record pace. I also would tell you from what I can tell, uh, um, our industry is actually shrinking a little bit, uh, which is the first time that you really kind of see that in a long time, and which means that there are going to be fewer shops out there.

Cecil Bullard: So I, I think this is good for us, but we need, we, we need to remember, I don't, I, I need cash. Cash, cash and cash flow are, are important. And so it, it's really important that I understand my business and how to generate that, those profits. If I don't have any cash in the bank and another trauma hits. Uh, where people tighten up for a month or two, I think.

Cecil Bullard: I think we're gonna see a lot of businesses, automotive businesses, close. For sure. 'cause they don't have cash and they're, and they're on the edge all the time. And,

Lucas Underwood: and, and I've, I've been there, right? Like I have absolutely been there and, and I see a lot of businesses when we talk to 'em about, Hey, you need at least six months of operating expenses in the bank.

Lucas Underwood: They say, that's unattainable. That's crazy. How could you ever do that? And, and you're exactly right though. And, and cashflow is king. Right. Because I see so many businesses, they go out and they finance all of this stuff and all of their cash flow is committed before they even get the first dime in the door.

Cecil Bullard: And then you have a, a really dangerous spot to be in. Yeah. And then you have a bad week or a bad month because of the, you know, the weather or the whatever, and all of a sudden you're behind a month with all of your vendors and everything. And it, yeah. That's a really tough place to be. So, um, be smart. Um.

Cecil Bullard: Profit, understand what you have to mark things up, understand you know what profit you need to make and, and hold the line and you'll be fine. And I would say, you know, let's have at least a minimum of three months worth operating capital in the bank. And the way to start that is start, if you can't put 500 bucks a, a week aside, put uh, 200, whatever.

Cecil Bullard: Can put 200. Put a hundred. Yeah. Just get a habit of writing yourself that check first. Right. Yes. And putting that in that account and that account is not, Cecil gets to go buy a new truck account or a boat or that account is that money doesn't get touched unless the world is on fire. Right.

Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.

Lucas Underwood: And I, I learned something years ago. Um, I, I did shop supplies for a long time. I made an adjustment to that. But when I took those shop supplies, those shop supplies were a percentage of income, and I just took that money and that went into that account no matter what. And so that was. Started building that kind of nest egg, that that protection blanket there started putting some money back.

Lucas Underwood: Cecil, the first question I wanna talk about, um, is what parts should not be in a parts matrix and how do we charge for those parts? Now, for me, my tires, they're not in the standard matrix, right? They're in a different matrix, but my batterie. I'm typically doing 35% on those, uh, wiper blades. I'm typically doing like 50% fluids.

Lucas Underwood: I've got one for that around the 55%, somewhere in that range. The one that I see a lot of shops get caught up on is things that are multiples, so eight spark plugs or a pin of star where you've got 16 rocker arms and it might drive the, the price to that 70 or 80%. Range because they're inexpensive. Tell us how do we, how do we navigate this?

Lucas Underwood: Because there's some things that may not need to be in a matrix, right?

Cecil Bullard: Most of the shops, um, don't put tires in a matrix. So we're, while we're looking for a 58% margin on our parts

Lucas Underwood: mm-hmm. We're

Cecil Bullard: looking for a 35% margin to 40 on our tires. Okay. Overall. Okay. And there are ways to deal with that, that will increase your profits, that will make that a very gross profit per hour worthy job to do, but it's not necessarily parts margin.

Cecil Bullard: Okay. Or tire margin. Yeah, for sure. For sure. About. 25% of the shops you have, uh, you know, there's a, a book about, um, um, the Innovator's Dilemma and there's like four books in that particular series. And they talk about the, um, different types of people. Like, uh, you would be in the forward group, like you're gonna try things and you're gonna Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: You're gonna investigate and you're, but then there's an a backward group that basically doesn't wanna do anything until everybody else has done it and Right. And so there's always 15% of my clients that are in that forward group that are innovators, and they're going to, uh, constantly try new things.

Cecil Bullard: And, and I would tell you that a large. Percentage of those people right now are using batteries, charging out batteries, just like in the regular matrix. Okay. But the bulk, the majority of our clients, probably 80, 85%, they have batteries in a separate matrix where they're not making more than say 30, 35% like tires.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's like a, it would be like a tire matrix. And, and then, um, I, I would tell you wiper blades, I, I wouldn't do it myself. Never did. Okay. Um, but, but if you think, uh, you know, I used to. When I used to talk about this, I used to say, don't discount anything. Do not. Right. Yeah. And, and the, your thought of competition is a false thought, right?

Cecil Bullard: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. You're, you're thinking that someone's looking at the wiper blades and if they don't buy wiper blades from me 'cause I'm too expensive, then they're gonna say everything else is too expensive. And, and I would tell you that the majority of your clients. The majority, 98, 90 9% are buying from you because they feel comfortable because you're close.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You know, for a bunch of other reasons. Okay. Absolutely. And, and, and nowadays when I talk to clients, I say, if you're gonna pick, say, 10 items that you're gonna lower margins on and have a different matrix you're gonna use, or a different margin, like maybe I'll say, Hey, I'm gonna make. 35% on wiper blades and then that's it.

Cecil Bullard: I won't make more. Yeah. Um, you, you need to counteract that in some areas. Like, uh, axles for me was one of those where I could buy at the time an axle for a buck eighty nine, a hundred eighty $9, and if I matrix price, it'd go out at four something. Um, right. But if I had to buy an axle from a dealership, it was $1,400, right?

Cecil Bullard: And so,

Lucas Underwood: correct.

Cecil Bullard: I didn't sell axles at 4 89. I sold them at 6 99 where I could make a little extra. Yeah. So if you have things that you're gonna not make money on or not as much, you need other things that make up the difference. So, well, so

Lucas Underwood: I, go ahead. I, I, I've got something I've gotta throw in here, right.

Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna let you go on, but No. Well, so here's the thing. Okay. I've been, I've been working in the family business, which is all about hospitality, and I realized something about my shop. That I had never taken into account before. Right. It's that we're really good at hospitality. Yeah. And, and listen, because my ticket's profitable, there are cases where I can afford to go and put those windshield wiper blades on for that guest.

Lucas Underwood: And when they come in the door and I can say, Hey Mrs. Smith, I noticed those windshield wipers were worn out and your safety's very important to me. I went ahead and replaced them for you. Right. And then I mark it off on the ticket and I can pay it and I can take the money outta my wallet if I have to and pay it.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah, yeah. But, but the thing is, is, is I use these opportunities to build hospitality. Yes. Now, when we talk about batteries, something that a lot of shops are missing right now is there are vehicles that the battery has to be coded. The battery has to be programmed to the vehicle. The installation is complex.

Lucas Underwood: There's a high likelihood of issues. And so I'm, I'm making my matrix. When I'm looking at some of these things, I'm not putting in the matrix. I'm saying, what's the chance that I have high liability here? What's the chance that I need to make this extra money because I could run into issues. Now if I'm putting an engine in a car, I know I need to make the money because there's a high likelihood something goes wrong.

Lucas Underwood: I need the extra margin. If it's something simple, well, why did we always do that with batteries and tires? Because it was a low chance of something happening, right? There was a low chance of a major issue occurring. So my tires.

Cecil Bullard: But think about this. Think, think about this. If your guy forgets to torque the lug nuts and that they lose a tire and they get in an accident and somebody gets killed, you wanna talk about liability?

Cecil Bullard: I mean, absolutely. That's why poor people,

Lucas Underwood: your tires

Cecil Bullard: have the highest liability of almost anything you do. You know? Absolutely. You screw up an engine. And uh, yeah, you might be replacing that motor, but nobody's probably gonna die from it. Right? Yeah, you're exactly right. And so you have to, and then we have cars catching fire because yeah, their electoral systems are overcharging or.

Lucas Underwood: You know, I don't know if you ever did this as a shop owner, we have social media now, and so like on the weekends when I see a car that's on fire and it got posted on social media, I'm scrolling and I'm trying to find the tag number,

Cecil Bullard: make sure, make sure it's not one of your clients. I did that whenever the tow truck showed up, like I was like, I'm in the point of sale, just like putting that, that license plate in.

Cecil Bullard: So I'm like, yeah, we do that. Is that one of mine? Did, has that been in in the last four months? I mean, you know, I, I, I hate it. Absolutely. I'm, I'm with you. So. But yeah, you, if you're gonna lower your price on certain things, 'cause you feel you want to be competitive, that's fine. Just remember that you raise the price by 1% on everything else to make up the difference.

Cecil Bullard: Because at the end of the day, I want 20% net period. Amen. Amen. And also, if you're estimating the way that I would teach you, which would be adding 10% into the jobs that you can. So, yeah, obviously an oil change, it has a cost or a, you know, uh, a, a brake flush has a cost, and I can't add 10%, but if I'm doing a water pump, if I sell that for 800 or 880, it doesn't matter.

Cecil Bullard: The, the, the buyers or the buyers and the not buyers. And not buyers, and if I have that 80 extra, extra 80 bucks. I decide I want to put wiper blades on Mrs. Jones' car and say, Hey, that's no charge. I still made my margin. Mrs. Jones felt like she got a great thing, she got wiper blades. We're all happy. Right.

Cecil Bullard: Well, and which is what I wanna create.

Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And the experience plays into that. The experience has to play into that. And in the, the, the book I'm talking about unreasonable hospitality, right? Mm-hmm. He, he owned 11 and Madison, right? And one of the things that he talked about is he said he was out there, the owner of this, you know, world class restaurant, recognized as the best restaurant in the world.

Lucas Underwood: He's busing tables. They don't know who he is. And he hears this, this group at this table across from him. And he said, they're talking about the fact that they'd eaten at all these amazing restaurants, but the one thing that they had not done is they had not gotten a New York City hotdog. And he said, until you've walked to a Michelin Star chef and a five star restaurant, and handed him two hot dogs from the street, hotdog cart outside the front door, and said, please prepare these and take them to that guest.

Lucas Underwood: You don't know what a butt chewing is. Yeah, but he said they didn't look at the bill. They didn't, and he said that's what made us world famous, is that when we went out there and handed those hot dogs, they got on social media and talked about how amazing that experience was. And so we're in the business of creating experiences in auto repair too.

Lucas Underwood: And I know it sounds crazy to a lot of people, but I didn't realize that's what I was doing. When I would give a set of wiper blades away, I was making it up in my margin elsewhere. Cale, I, I can see it in the face. Like I'm, I'm debating how bad the butt chewings gonna be in our next coaching call.

Lucas Underwood: You're giving what away?

Lucas Underwood: Actually,

Cecil Bullard: actually, no butt chewing. I, if the bottom line is right, who cares if I give away wiper blades? Amen. Or anything else, right? I mean, yeah. So. And, and I got, uh, so I'm, we're doing the marketing conference, the Mars Conference in the next couple days, and I'm speaking Yeah. And I gotta tell you, everything is about the customer experience.

Cecil Bullard: Yes. All right. It's not about the price, it's not what it costs for the majority of the population. They don't care what it costs. They don't know what it should cost. They don't really care. They're not absolutely calling 15 shops and comparing you. And if they are, they don't know what they're comparing.

Cecil Bullard: Right. Exactly. So it doesn't matter. Um, it's all about the experience. And if you really want to be successful in automotive service and repair, don't forget about the service part of it. Amen. Because that's what it's all about. It's really taking care of that client

Lucas Underwood: a hundred percent. Jumping onto the next question, and it's kind of along these lines, and it's something that I've had a ton of experience with here recently.

Lucas Underwood: I'm on the board of the Automotive Service and Tire Alliance. A lot of people know that used to be the Independent Garage owners of North Carolina. We Mer, or we merged with the North Carolina Tire Dealers Association to make the Automotive Service Tire Alliance, and all of a sudden I'm sat in a room with the most successful tire shops.

Lucas Underwood: In my opinion in the country, right? Some of the most brilliant tire shop owners you could ever meet. And I'm sitting in this room with them and they're sharing with me their strategies. And all of a sudden I'm saying, you know, for years I said, tires don't make any money. And now I'm sitting in this room with these guys who are making way more money than I am with tires.

Lucas Underwood: Cecil, what should the, what should the margin and installation be on tires? How do we calculate this? I, I think margin

Cecil Bullard: wise, um, I was always looking for 40%. So, uh. I worked with, um, I've worked with many of the big tire guys. I, I mean, I worked with Goodyear for a while. I worked with guys big o tire stores, you know, just, um, uh, Bridgestone, Firestone, et cetera.

Cecil Bullard: Right? And I, a guy had three big O stores here, and their tire margins were about 21%. I came in and I said, well, we're gonna get 40. And he was like, there's no way we're ever gonna get 40% on tires. And I'm like, yes, we are. And within six months, we were at 38. Now it, it's, it, it, it, it, I would like the goal to be 40.

Cecil Bullard: If we're at 35 or higher, I'm okay. We're fine. Okay. For tires. Alright. And then, um, there's other things I can do to improve my margin in the tire job, which is selling like A-T-P-M-S repair kit, uh, which is the O-rings for the TPMS and the, and the wheel weights as a kit. Also you were talking about like, uh, selling, I don't know, 12 spark plugs or, or yeah.

Cecil Bullard: You know, six spark plugs or whatever. I can create a kit out of that and sell that as a kit as opposed to individual. I can still get good margin, but it doesn't look like I'm charging you $45 or $54 per spark plug. Right. Yeah, that's a really good idea. And so creating kits, uh, around those things where I'm gonna put in like 12 injectors or, you know, whatever, those will help you look better and maintain margin, right?

Lucas Underwood: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And absolutely. And so that would be that as, and so how much to put on. I'm gonna have a technician who's going to spend, um, a tech, not really a tech, 'cause we don't tire tech or whatever. Gonna spend a half an hour probably. So I have to, I have to think about that half an hour cost for that guy, mark that cost up so that I can make my.

Cecil Bullard: You know, 62% on labor gross profit. And then that's what I wanna sell a set of tires for, um, you know, the, the installation part. So I'm gonna have the installation. Uh, I, I think today I'd be 20, 25 bucks a tire. I don't think it'd be less than that period. Yeah. I,

Lucas Underwood: I think I'm more than that. I think I'm 32 right now.

Lucas Underwood: And yeah. And you know, one of the things that we talk about a lot. Because it's the automotive industry, we tend to come back to hours, right? And we talk about hours a lot and how long it takes somebody. You know, one of the things I think is important to share is that within reason. It's not really that important how long it takes 'em, we don't care necessarily how long it takes.

Lucas Underwood: We just wanna make sure we're paid for their time and they're paid for their time.

Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. But, but, but kind of we do, because the biggest problem we have in the automotive industry that's killing profit is, uh, labor productivity. It's, it's not necessarily pricing or parts pricing. It's productive.

Cecil Bullard: It's lack of

Lucas Underwood: productivity. You're absolutely right. But, but here's my point with it is if you're, if you're tracking it properly. Because what was it Jimmy always said you can't manage what you don't measure. Yeah. And so if you're not tracking it and you're not managing it, and you're not saying, Hey, like I don't really care how long it takes you to do this job.

Lucas Underwood: Here's book. You've got this kind of margin over top of book. But if you're gonna go over this, we have to have a discussion so I can bill appropriately to make this work. Well, and you have to

Cecil Bullard: understand when you're gonna go over and you have to know how to deal with that and the times that you are gonna go over.

Cecil Bullard: And you also have to expect that every once in a while you're gonna go over. Right. Yeah. And that's just part of the job. I mean, uh, I was at a shop the other day and, and the owner was like, oh my God, we got this car in here. It's been kicking our ass. We did this, we did this, and we did that. And yeah, and I'm like.

Cecil Bullard: Welcome to Automotive Service and Repair. You know, every once in a while you're gonna have a car that kicks your ass. And same thing with that's it, busting tires. Every once in a while you're gonna have something to fight you and it it might take you longer. It it, and as a manager, I, I don't care if you do that every once in a while.

Cecil Bullard: I just care if you do it all the time. Absolutely

Lucas Underwood: right. I, I don't even care if they do it from time to time as long as they're communicating with me. Yeah. Right. One of my biggest issues is, and, and I've shared this with you as, as my coach, I've got a diagnostician and he gets so wound up in the problem that he doesn't stop and come back to me and say, Hey, dude, I've done this, this, and this.

Lucas Underwood: Here's the next test I need to do. It takes me this long. Yeah. And by the way, if it's so end up three hours in, I dunno.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If it's his car and he wants to spend his time working on his car for free, that's great. But if it's my customer's car and we're gonna take more than the allotted hour and a half, um, then I want to know and have the opportunity as the owner or the manager to go, either I'm gonna give it away or I'm gonna charge for it.

Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Absolutely a hundred percent. And I know owners all the time, they're like, oh, I'll make it up on the end. No, you don't. Yeah, mostly you don't. Right? Yeah. So it's better if we have good communication. We need to build those communication things into our process so that when the guy gets something that kicks his ass, uh, my son, my oldest boy sent me a, a, a meme and it's a guy with a, a, a big ratchet and he's like trying to get this bolt.

Cecil Bullard: And all of a sudden you hear Snap. And the ratchet's kind of free, and you see his whole face changes. And, uh, my son thought that was funny, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really funny. I've been there. Now you're gonna have to, now you're gonna have to drill that out. You're gonna have to probably rethread it, blah, blah, blah.

Cecil Bullard: That's when that guy needs to go to the service manager, service advisor and go, Hey, we need more time. Because this car that I'm working on, that thing happened and yeah, not my fault. Right? Or my fault.

Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And I shouldn't pay for it percent, a hundred percent. I didn't build it, buy it or break it.

Lucas Underwood: So it's kinda like, you know, I didn't even get to drive it. I didn't have the fun of driving it, so why am I paying for it? So let's jump into shop supplies. And sublet, because that's another question in here is, is how should we approach, uh, shop supplies and sublet charges and, you know, shop supplies. I said I'd do something a little bit different now.

Lucas Underwood: Right. And what I did with mine is I increased my labor rate. For that same percentage, just so I don't have to have the discussion about it every ticket. And so I took that off the ticket. And then I just remember that that's in my labor rate. So when I go up and when I do my labor calculations, I know that percentage is not truly for that.

Lucas Underwood: That's another percentage that should be somewhere else in my financial data. I just know it's there.

Cecil Bullard: But also, but also, think about this, if I went up, say $40 an hour, and I was charging say, 6% of my labor rate as a shop supply. I have to move my labor rate up another $2 and 40 cents to keep that or my shop supply part of that at the same percentage, right?

Cecil Bullard: Yep. Absolutely. And I do, so I,

Lucas Underwood: I calculate it just like that.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, and those guys don't want you to yell at me. Most guys, most guys probably don't, but, but that's what I need to do. Now, if you are charging soft supplies, you have to also understand this, and this makes me crazier than all. Stuff. I had a guy in the office yesterday, one of my clients, and we're talking and he's like, yeah, I bought, I said, why was my parts margin so bad?

Cecil Bullard: Oh, we bought the 2 55 gallon drums of brake cleaner. Great. How much brake cleaner did we charge out last month? Oh, um, I don't know. None. I. Didn't charge, it's a shop supply. And I'm like, no, it isn't 55 gallons. It's, you know, whatever it is. A a 1,012 ounce cans. Right? And every time I do a brake job, I'm charging for a can of brake cleaner, even though it only costs me a buck 27 in a 55 gallon drum, I'm charging 13, $14 for a can of brake cleaner.

Cecil Bullard: It's one of my higher margin items. And I want to know that if I had a 55 gallon drum that I have the commensurate. Brake cleaner cans being sold. Okay. Right, and, and so what is a shop supply? Shop supplies are cleaners for the floors. Yeah. Um, shop supplies are gloves, hearing protection, eye protection.

Cecil Bullard: Shop supplies are rags. Okay. And, uh, potentially fees to have your rags kept clean and et cetera. Uh, bolts, nuts, washers, uh, brake cleaner. Uh, tie wraps, those are not shop supplies. Those are parts. And those are higher margin parts because they're inexpensive and can be marked up higher. And if you're giving those away, even if you're charging 4% on shop for your shop supplies, you're not making that up.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So what what got me was we spent $3,900 on, now this guy made about 6,000 on $130,000, which is not good enough. Right in in net. Yeah. And he sold, uh uh. He sold, he bought, he sold $3,600 worth of shop supplies and he bought $3,900 worth of shop supplies.

Lucas Underwood: Okay. Oof.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so, you know, obviously that's a, oh my gosh, what are we doing?

Cecil Bullard: And then you find out that he's giving away things like break brake cleaner and you know, and they use brake cleaner. Like it's, I don't know, like I take showers. Yeah. Uh, I mow the yard, I take a shower. I, I, I You think they're cranking it? I walk. Yeah. They might be. You never know. I'm just asking for a friend, you

Lucas Underwood: know, it's not like I go for 25 cases a week.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But, but are we charging for parts the way we should charge for parts? And are we charging for shop supplies the way we should, should charge for shop supplies? And yes, we should have a shop supply charge, whether it's a four to 8% of our labor rate charge or whether it's a, I charge shop supplies at four to 8% on as a, as a line item in my billing, and then I'm not.

Cecil Bullard: I'm not giving away my bolts and my washers and my correct, um, tie wraps and my um, uh, clamp hose clamps.

Lucas Underwood: When you start charging for it, you realize how much you were leaving on the table. And it's not just about money. It can be thousands, a, a month, I mean for sure. Yeah. Well, and I mean, like when that happens though, let's think about what happens when we do that.

Lucas Underwood: When we give that away, not only are we giving money away. But we're also messing up our entire inventory. And so now if we have a parts guy, if we have a service advisor, it's very difficult. How many times have we stopped the production of a job? 'cause we didn't have one bolt, right? Yeah. Now I've got bolt bins out here, and if I'm watching that number go down and I'm saying, Hey, I'm gonna need this bolt.

Lucas Underwood: If my part guy puts it on the ticket, he says, oh my God, I've only got two of those left. I better order some. Yeah. And so when we talk about efficiency in the shop, this is stuff that plays into efficiency in the shop. And look, I mean, even if they don't wanna charge for it, fine, whatever, but you need to track it so you can at least have them when you need 'em.

Lucas Underwood: That can do, we need them,

Cecil Bullard: that can hold up a $10,000 job for two days. Yeah. While I try to order a special bolt that I should have had that I don't have because I've been giving them away and not keeping track.

Lucas Underwood: And let me tell you folks, when, when you've got a coach like Cecil Bullard and you realize that that job didn't close last month because of.

Lucas Underwood: 41 cent bold and nobody in town had one. But you usually keep one on the shelf and you've got to explain that to Cecil Bullard. You'll quit doing it, I promise. Okay. I'm just gonna tell you right now,

Cecil Bullard: if every shop owner were like, oh, I have to spend a an hour with Cecil once every two weeks, they would be like, oh, I'm gonna do these things better because then I don't have to have those conversations.

Cecil Bullard: That's exactly

Lucas Underwood: right. I don't want to have that. Discussion again. Um, so er, auto, diesel and tire. Ask, what about diesel parts? Now look, I'm, I'm gonna get on my soapbox, Cecil, because when I started this, I was a diesel performance shop. Yeah. All I did was work on diesel trucks and I thought that I had to match what everybody was selling the parts for online.

Lucas Underwood: And you know what I do now? I charge the same price that I charge for everything else. I don't make those adjustments. And it's because, so what if you, that's what takes to fix the truck.

Cecil Bullard: What if you really charge what you should charge? Okay, so I use my same matrix, uh, my diesel matrix. I have a diesel matrix.

Cecil Bullard: It's not much different, frankly.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Um, what if I used my same matrix and I charged what I needed to charge and let's say 20% of those clients said no. Too expensive for me. I can get the parts cheap and, and so this is the, I, I mean, I can remember as a 25-year-old service advisor. Um, arguing with a client over whether or not they could bring their shitty alternator in their rebuilt alternator, or I was gonna replace the alternator.

Cecil Bullard: And I can remember having that very same client tell me, if it's no good and it doesn't work, I won't be mad at you, so I won't hold you accountable. And even having them sign something that said, if we have to replace it, you're gonna pay for it. Right? And every one of those SOPs. Um, treated me poorly, treated me like I, I was the one that bought a, a shitty part, et cetera.

Cecil Bullard: This is not new. Okay. Yeah. We've been dealing with this since automotive started. Yep. I mean, since cars had wheels, uh, uh, we've been dealing with this and there's always gonna be somebody that will do it cheaper. I'm not, yeah. I, I'm not building my business on Oh, and. It just drives me nuts. You'll, you'll, I'll go do talk in a diesel place and I'll talk about parts margin.

Cecil Bullard: They're like, oh, diesel, you can't, sure you can. I have clients that do it. Diesel shops. I do it all day long That are charging what they charge. Yeah. All day long in getting what they get. Now there are some things like, um, uh, suspension kits. I have shops that do that and Yeah, and they can get it on cheap online, and they'll let a client bring the suspension kit in because they just can't even come close to.

Cecil Bullard: Competing price wise, I, I see. I

Lucas Underwood: quit doing that work. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't, I just, by doing it, it's too much headache. It's too much frustration. And, and when we start looking at the shop, right, you've really taught me to look at the shop in a box and say, here, here's like, Lucas, you only have this much time during the day.

Lucas Underwood: And if, if you're gonna be efficient a hundred percent of this time, here's what it takes. Here's what it should be, and why would it fill my

Cecil Bullard: time with something at 3% margin as opposed to at something at 20% margin,

Lucas Underwood: it turns into a mess and turns into hurt feelings. I'll, I'll never forget. I had to go get an LT two 60 here in North Carolina.

Lucas Underwood: It was somebody had abandoned their car here and I was sitting in the magistrate's office as the person in front of me goes up. And it's an argument between a professional provider and a consumer. And he said, but sir, if you look right here, they signed a waiver that said, and that magistrate said, according to federal and state law, you cannot waive a professional responsibility.

Lucas Underwood: I'm sorry, but that waiver is no good in this court.

Cecil Bullard: And you use in every single court case. Absolutely. You are the professional whether you like it or not. Exactly. And you cannot sign your rights away. I don't care what the. You, you know why? Like I, I went in and had brain surgery, and what did they have me sign?

Cecil Bullard: If they screw this up, I'm not, they're not liable. I won't sue the hospital. I won't do this. I won't sue the doctor. Blah, blah, blah. You know what that is? That's all smoke and mirrors, because that's a, that's a, please

Lucas Underwood: don't sue us.

Cecil Bullard: Yes. And, and because they know that a certain percentage of the population will say, well, I signed that, so I can't sue.

Cecil Bullard: Right? Yeah. You cannot sign your rights away. Exactly. You cannot. A hundred percent, hundred percent. Well, so stop. Go ahead. What's the value? What, what is the value of your time and your person's time? And, and stop saying, well, somebody else is giving their time away, so I have to give mine away.

Lucas Underwood: So here's my perspective on the diesel truck thing, okay?

Lucas Underwood: Um, are there consumers who want the cheapest price? And there are people who can't afford a diesel truck. A diesel truck is the most expensive automobile on the road to maintain, maybe aside from a, just a handful of very expensive European cars, right? Diesel trucks are the most expensive to maintain.

Lucas Underwood: You don't buy a diesel truck to play, okay? I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. That sucker is meant to work, and if it's not out there making money. Then I don't know why you got it. Yeah. And if it is out there making money, you know that you need to pay me to fix it correctly and quickly so it doesn't go back down again.

Lucas Underwood: Okay. Because it's a question, think about what

Cecil Bullard: it costs, think about what it costs when it's not on the road. Exactly. It's costing five, $600 an hour to that guy. Absolutely. And then I'll never tell me that you wanna argue. Would

Lucas Underwood: it cost to fix the dang thing? Absolutely. And the, those are the good clients who don't argue about it, say, fix it, get it on the road quickly.

Lucas Underwood: I've got a fleet who is HBAC, right? Really great fleet, and they bought a ton of Sprinter vans. These things kept going into a D rate where they would lock themselves out, they would run 'em low on death fluid, or they would have an emissions failure and it would lock out and it would only run five mile an hour, or it would go down to where it wouldn't start and they would have to tow it all the way to Charlotte.

Lucas Underwood: From here, it's a $400 tow bill down there. It's two days of sending somebody down to pick it up, get it. It's taken all these two guys outta work. It's a big deal. Right. It's expensive. And so I'm talking to the man about it and I said, Hey, listen, you know, I, I hate that you have him do that, but it's under warranty.

Lucas Underwood: And he said, I don't care about the cost of fixing it. Let me explain to you on the road needs me $30,000 a week or more. And he said, so taking it out for one day and sending it down there and taking two guys to do that, that's $60,000 a day. Right? He's, it's a bunch of money.

Cecil Bullard: And let, let me ask this question 'cause I, I gotta ask the question.

Cecil Bullard: Who in the f taught these guys that they have to be price competitive with a bunch of idiots that don't understand their business and don't know how to make a profit. Right, right. Where, where did they get that idea that, well, it's, it's a competitive marketplace. Well, of course it is. Everything's a do.

Cecil Bullard: You know, you wanna know Burritos is a competitive marketplace. Yeah, absolutely. But I don't go to the place that has the cheapest burrito. I go to the place that has the best burrito, the one I like that's close by, blah, blah, blah. A hundred percent and a hundred percent. Yeah. It it, and, and we, we have a bunch of these in the industries.

Cecil Bullard: You could, you could talk about the diesel guys, you could talk about the, the, uh, some of the European shops. You could talk about the diag guys trying to give away free diag all the time. Yeah. 'cause someone else is giving away free diag. And, and we, we get these crazy ideas that we can't. We can't make a profit and then we live by that and then we

Lucas Underwood: die by that.

Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. And, and I share with shop owners all the time. Look, the numbers are, the numbers are the numbers. Right? There's no way around it. And, and if that's what the business takes to be profitable, that's what the business takes to be profitable. I can't just make numbers up and throw 'em out there and expect to survive.

Lucas Underwood: And you wanna know, it just

Cecil Bullard: does not work. Do you wanna know that my, my highest priced, most profitable shops?

Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm.

Cecil Bullard: Are the most consistently busy. Also, they have the best clients. They have the best client counts. The, the consistency, it's the guys that are discounting and cheap that are fighting and arguing every day and not consistent in their business because of what they're doing.

Cecil Bullard: They have the,

Lucas Underwood: they have the happiest tax. They have the happiest clients. They have the happiest staff. Yeah. They have people that go home at the end of the day and take the weekend off and Right. Like, that's just how it is. I love, and you don't have to fight for this.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I got a worker's comp audit and they sent me a bill today and I'm like, okay, I just need to talk to my hr, you know my people.

Cecil Bullard: And I said, Hey, is this the company? And they're like, yeah, that's a company. I said, did they really do an audit? Yes, they did. Okay. I owe 'em money. Well, I hate that. Right, but it sure is nice that money sitting in the bank that you can just write a check and go, okay, here you go. It's just an inconvenience.

Cecil Bullard: It's not, oh my God, where am I gonna come up with that money so that I can pay this worker's comp audit that I have to pay? Right? I mean, it's not like I get anywhere around it. You know, my rent. I have to pay my workers' comp, I gotta pay, and it's nice to have money in the bank. Stop thinking that you need to be competitive with the guy down the street who's running himself in the ground.

Cecil Bullard: You don't.

Lucas Underwood: Well, and even beyond that though is you don't know what his financials look like. Yeah. You don't know what his numbers are. He may not be paying rent. Yeah. You don't know what his situation is, and so you can't base it off what he's doing. You have to base it off of your financials. There's no way around that.

Lucas Underwood: So let me ask, understand what your business needs to do financially

Cecil Bullard: first.

Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Absolutely. So let me ask you this. One of the things that we've been talking about a lot in the group here recently is the onboarding of new staff. And, and the two that really stand out to me is there's a lot of folks who are saying, Hey, I'm gonna hire my first tech.

Lucas Underwood: Hey, I'm gonna hire my first advisor. And then after that, you start hearing, Hey, I'm gonna hire a manager, or I'm gonna hire a parts guy, whatever it may be. In what order do we begin to put people in the shop? So we're a one man band. We've got the shop it, it's cooking, we've got it full of cars. We're doing all this work.

Lucas Underwood: Cecil, when do I start bringing people in and in what order do I bring them in?

Cecil Bullard: The first thing I that I have to do is decide what I want, uh, 10, 15 years from now. Okay. What do I want to be? If I wanna be a tech in my business and that's my joy and I wanna have someone else manage it and run it and, and all of that, then that's a different, uh, uh, progression.

Cecil Bullard: I would tell you for most of us though, we have a vision of. I won't be working on cars, I'll be the, you know, I'll be the manager owner. I won't, you know, I'll take Wednesdays off, you know, whatever. And, and so usually for me, it's a tech, um, first. Okay. And when I have, you know, so I should be doing somewhere between, probably around 40,000 a month by myself.

Cecil Bullard: Okay? Me writing service, me talking to clients, me doing work. And then, uh, and then I'm gonna probably hire a technician, and now we're gonna be doing 60, 65,000. I'm gonna step into the more of the service advisor role, less of the production role. Then I'm gonna hire a second Tech, and now we're gonna be doing 80,000 to to a hundred thousand, and I'm gonna be writing service 99% of the time, and I'm not gonna be working on cars.

Cecil Bullard: Then when I go to hire my third tech, I'm hiring a service advisor. To come in. Okay. Okay. And so I, I, I want to have no more than six techs for two service advisors. Okay? Probably when I get to four at before four techs, I want to have a, either an assistant or somebody as a service advisor. And so for me, building the business is almost always let's go find the tech or a tech, either one, we can train or one that's already trained, hopefully.

Cecil Bullard: Um, before I do a service advisor or, or anything. 'cause I am the face of the business when I start a business and it's just me. Yeah. And so I want, I want that continuity with my clients. Um, and I'm much more likely to be able to sell the, the customer, et cetera, than say someone else that I might quote unquote bring in.

Cecil Bullard: Um, right. And so that's kind of the progression. And also, you know, when does my shop run most efficiently? Most profitably, five to six techs, two service advisors. The parts guy. Right, right. And one of those techs, one of the service advisors is probably a quote unquote service manager that has some management duties, uh, so that I don't have to show up every morning or I don't have to do everything in the business management wise.

Lucas Underwood: So, a couple, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take us off track here a little bit. So one of the things that we see happen a lot is a technician becomes disgruntled in their current place of work and they decide they're gonna start their own job. And they say, I am going to reinvent the wheel. I'm gonna show these guys how to run a business because the auto repair industry just doesn't work the way it is now.

Lucas Underwood: And I, there's aspects of that I don't disagree with. And I, you know, I am a huge proponent for technicians. I don't believe that we've been treating them very well, and I believe that in a lot of ways that we have to make sure we're respecting them and taking care of them. But we're seeing these guys go start shops and they're treating themselves worse than the shop was treating them.

Lucas Underwood: But because they're doing it for themselves, they feel really good about it, right? And so I believe that it's important that we educate them and help them grow up in that. But what I'm seeing is, is these really, really skilled. Technicians go out, start a shop. Then they decide to charge less than everybody else.

Lucas Underwood: Now, from the way I see it, that's a boutique type shop, right? That's a, that's a one in a million. You get to talk to the guy that's working on your car. He's the owner of the business, cares genuinely about its growth, and cares genuinely about you because he has a personal connection with you. To me, that seems like it's very valuable.

Lucas Underwood: Why do you think they're not charging more than they are for that service?

Cecil Bullard: We're all afraid. Um, the whole industry's afraid of charging and losing customers and losing techs and blah, blah, blah. I, I, I'd like to, I'd like to say two things and I, I want to have the conversation about how we're treating techs separately.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So, okay, let's do it. Um, uh, first, uh, I, I, I was teaching a class, uh, about the numbers and everything here in Utah, and the mayor's brother had a shop and he was like, I'm sick and tired of shops ripping off customers, and in my shop, we're only gonna charge the whatever the parts cost us, and $90 an hour in labor because that's all I need.

Cecil Bullard: And if I do 90. Dollars an hour, then I get what I need financially and that's the way it's gonna be. And I said, I said, dude, um, congratulations. You're gonna be outta business in 12 months. Yeah. Now he proved me wrong. It took 13 months for him to go out of business. Yeah. We need to understand our business as a financial model and profitably how we need to be profitable.

Cecil Bullard: And if we don't understand that, stay outta my business because all you're doing is hurting yourself and hurting others and, and hurting our industry. So that's common aside. Um, why do they charge less? Because they don't. First of all, I'm, I'm, I'm fearful because I'm starting something out fresh and so I'm gonna use discounting 'cause that's what everybody does to attract clients and try to bring clients in.

Cecil Bullard: I build my business on a bunch of discount clients who are the ones who will argue with me over price and reinforce my idea that price is the number one thing. Okay. Yeah. Isn't it amazing like on online where we, if we're conservative, we get the same conservative messages over and over and we never get any liberal messages in our feeds because.

Cecil Bullard: Online, Facebook and Twitter. The algorithm follows what you wanna hear. They all know what I like and they're gonna feed me more of what I like. Okay. Yeah. That kind of happens in our automotive businesses, especially because we're in this area where we have blinders. Because it's only my business, it's only my experience.

Cecil Bullard: I don't have the experience of the 800 shops or the 8,000 shops. Okay. Yeah. And so that, that, that is an issue for me if I am gonna be that guy that gives you that personal attention. I have to pay for myself my time and my time is the most valuable time. Okay? Yeah. And, and so I can't charge you less because Cecil's doing it.

Cecil Bullard: I have to charge you at least what I would charge you for any of my other coaches, if not more. Than my other coaches because my time has more value. Right. And, and it is a, a premium service if you're getting to talk to the tech. Yeah. Um, and my recommendation would be you don't do that. You don't set that up.

Cecil Bullard: You, you're the, the service advisor. Whoever's talking to the client is the front, oh, is the business. Right. Yeah. I represent the tech, I represent the owner, I represent the parts department. I represent the whole company. And I'm here to take the heat for you, the client, right? And, and to make sure that you get what you're, you deserve.

Cecil Bullard: And, and so I would say that's an issue. Now, how we treat our techs, I don't agree with you, frankly. I mean, are there techs that are mistreated? Yes. Okay.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: But you have choice. Okay. You don't have to say, yes, I'll, I'll agree to this shit. And, and, and deal with a, an owner that treats you poorly or doesn't pay you well, especially right now, I mean, the last numbers I saw, holy crap, we need is your tax.

Cecil Bullard: I mean, you can go anywhere and, and yet they put up with this crap and these poor pay plans and the, and, and being treated, mistreated and, and in my opinion, frankly, uh. Stop. Life's too short. Okay. Yeah. And, and so as an, whenever we like, uh oh, a whole generation, they're just terrible. You know, these new generations, they just don't have blah, blah, blah.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Generalized. That's crap. That's crap. So, generalizing the fact that techs are mistreated, are there great examples of mistreated techs? Yes. Yeah. By the way, there were before. Okay. It's just now more visible. And if you don't like the way you're treated, oh my God, you got wheels on your toolbox for a reason.

Cecil Bullard: Right.

Lucas Underwood: Listen, I upset a lot of people. Okay? Yeah, because I made a video a while back and I was talking about the fact, and there's another video coming as a result of this, but I was talking about, Hey, listen. I completely understand that if you're not paid fairly and if things aren't working right, but you can't be a victim, you have to solve the problem.

Lucas Underwood: Right. You, you should be working on that in

Cecil Bullard: your shop.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. And so like, we can't be victims. We have to take the problem, we have to solve it, we have to fix it, we have to go on. And if it's that we're not being paid fairly. If things aren't working for us, nobody else is gonna look out for me or you.

Lucas Underwood: We have to look out for ourselves. We have a personal responsibility. If we have a family, we have people we love. We have people we care about. That's our job to look out for them. The industry isn't necessarily gonna look out for Bobby that works in the shop down the street. That's Bobby's job. And I'm not saying that, that there aren't shops that will look out for Bobby.

Lucas Underwood: I'm just saying if it's not working and you're not making enough and you're not surviving. You've gotta do something different. Whether that's spend less money, whether that's take ownership of it,

Cecil Bullard: we perpetuate this same BS because I, I start my own shop because the guy before me is charging $150. Now he's only paying me 30, so I'm poorly paid.

Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. But, but because I think that he's making 150 for every hour, but I don't understand about rent and utilities and banking costs and, and yeah. Uh, uh, insurance and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That guy, in most cases is making less than you. And we perpetuate this and we keep perpetuating it because we don't learn about the business financially and understand the business financially and how to.

Cecil Bullard: How to dig ourselves out of these holes and yeah. And so, you know it, there are examples of really poorly paid technicians and really shitty bosses. There's plenty of that out there. Yeah, absolutely. But most of the guys that I know and work with. These techs are making tons of money. We put these pay plans in place.

Cecil Bullard: You understand the pay plans? We put 'em in your place. Yep. And it gives, gives them tons of opportunity. But the business, the business has to succeed along with them. I can't charge $90 an hour. Pay somebody, you know, 40 bucks an hour plus benefits and still survive financially. I, I, I can't do it. And, you know, I'll, I'll tell you, I don't think there's a shop in the United States today.

Cecil Bullard: I used say, should be under 250 an hour. I would tell you right now it's 300.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. If you look at inflation, if you look at the, the way the data's played out over the years, the complexity of the car, all of the things that, that play into what auto repair should be charging, we're not where we're supposed to be.

Lucas Underwood: Not even close, right? No. Like we, we fell behind. Why? Yeah. Let me ask you, why did we fall behind? Scared.

Cecil Bullard: We're fear. We're afraid. We're afraid. It, I, I think I have to, I have this false sense of the guy down the street. I drive by his shop, it's full, and I think, oh, he's busy. And, and I know what his labor rate is or what he talks about.

Cecil Bullard: And, uh, you know, we, we have a friend who talks about, uh, not charging diagnostic fees. Yeah. Oh, come on, gimme a break. You, you charge diagnostic fees. You just charge everybody. You raise your labor rates so that everybody pays the diagnostic fee. You just don't. Yep. Give it to the, the client. We, we have this false sense of that.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Because this, this per this particular person is giving that false sense out. Like he's doing something secret that nobody else knows how, and he's magic. He, he ain't magic. The guy down the street that's got cars in fully in his shop is either doing one of two things. He's either cheap, cheap, cheap, and he has every cheap person.

Cecil Bullard: With every piece of crap car in his shop. Yeah. Which he's not getting out 'cause he's not productive, he's not as profitable as you think. Or his service is so good that people are lining up and willing to wait for them. Yeah. And if that's the case, then his price is, is much higher than the guy that's giving it away.

Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Okay. And 'cause he understands the dynamic. Yeah. And there's nothing in between that.

Lucas Underwood: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: There's really

Lucas Underwood: nothing in between that. Yep, you're exactly right. Last question, uh, what percentage of net profit should be your net cash flow after paying shareholder contributions and any debt?

Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, so I, I, I want 20% net, net.

Cecil Bullard: Net. Okay. Okay. Out of that 20% net, I'm gonna pay taxes, which is gonna be about a third. Okay. Somewhere around 30% of that 33% is gonna go to tax. It's gonna leave me, um, 60% of that 20%. Okay. Okay. So now I'm at 12 to 14%. Depending on my, how good my tax guy is of that 12 to 14, I am now gonna pay shareholder contributions, which is gonna be about half of that.

Cecil Bullard: And the other half of that is gonna be set aside for, um, building tools, uh, et cetera. Um, I'm gonna end up with seven to 8% of the of the net net. Uh, of the, not of the 20%, but I'm gonna end up with seven or 8% of the overall net profit in my pocket as a shareholder. Got it. Okay. Got it. And, and I might even end up with 10 or 12 if I do this right and I run myself at 24%, which means I have to be more than a hundred percent productive.

Cecil Bullard: But I have shops that certainly do that. Um, basically for training purposes. A third is gonna go to taxes, a third is gonna go to, um, the building, the maintenance, the upkeep, et cetera. And a third is gonna come to me, the shareholder. Got it. Got it. Of whatever that profit is.

Lucas Underwood: And, and you know, there are some shop owners who don't believe that they should be making a profit.

Lucas Underwood: What do you say to them? Get outta my

Cecil Bullard: business. Get outta my business. I mean, business is about profit and like it or not, we, you know, would, we love to be in, in a sense, socialist, socialist, uh, uh. I go, I want to take care of everybody. Um, I love everybody. I, I really would. If, if I could do nothing. But coach and, and do this and help people, my life would be the best life in the world.

Cecil Bullard: All right? Right. Except I have to eat, I have to pay my bills. Um, who's gonna take care of me when I can't do this anymore? Um, yeah. Uh, uh, Lucas, if, if I fall into hard times, are you gonna take care of me? Uh, is it gonna be you and my Listen, listen. You ain't gonna live on, you ain't gonna live on

Lucas Underwood: this champagne budget anymore, Cecil.

Lucas Underwood: I'm just

Cecil Bullard: telling. So, so, you know, profit is what business is about. It's about creating personal wealth. And personal wealth is not, it's not I want to bleed society and et cetera. I need this to have a business that is, um. Comfortable, meaning there's money in the bank. I've got three months worth of operating capital to six months worth of operating capital in case the world goes nuts for a while.

Cecil Bullard: Um, I, I need to prepare for my future, which someday I'm gonna sell the place and, and, uh, retire. I don't know what that's gonna look like or what that is, but I know what it's gonna cost. Um, for me to live. Um, I don't, I don't drink champagne. I'm, I'm a more simple guy. I do like a nice steak though, right?

Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Um, but, but those get

Lucas Underwood: more expensive these days.

Cecil Bullard: Yes, they are a lot more expensive. But, but I just, I. I've worked very hard for a very long time to help a lot of people in this industry. And, and is it, is it because Cecil loves it? Yeah. We don't, I had somebody say, um, everybody does something.

Cecil Bullard: Every, everybody's reason is a selfish reason to, you know, for whatever you do. And I said that that's not true. And, but it, but if you think about like Mother Teresa, right? She went to Calcutta. You know, um, sacrificed her entire life for other people. Why did she do that? Because it made her feel good. Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Okay. Because it made her closer to her, God, because, you know, but there was something in it for her. If there was nothing in it for her, she wouldn't have done it. Okay. Yeah. And, and we're the same. And so I need profit. And if I don't have enough profit, then every month I'm, I'm going, man, it's only the 24th and I'm outta money and I've got payroll and I've got bills, and I've got utilities.

Cecil Bullard: And, you know, with what's going on with the family business, you know, uh, um, when money's tight, it's, it's a hard way to live. It is okay.

Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir. And,

Cecil Bullard: and I don't mean that I need millions and millions in the bank, but I do need to know that I have the cash flow and that I can buy a steak once a week if that's what I want to do.

Lucas Underwood: Okay.

Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. So yes, it's, it's about profit and it should be about profit.

Lucas Underwood: Well, Cecil, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for answering these questions. You're a wealth of knowledge, you're a blessing to our industry, uh, and to me personally. So big thanks from me, big thanks from the industry, and I can't wait to do it again.

Lucas Underwood: Thank you, sir. I love you, brother. Love you, brother.

Lucas Underwood: Y'all have a good one. Thank you.