Built on relationships, accountability, and a deep respect for people, Eric Henley, owner of H Tech Auto Care in Tennessee, shares how his lifelong passion for the automotive industry evolved into a purpose-driven business and culture. From dealership master technician to shop owner, Eric reflects on the decisions that shaped his leadership, his team, and his approach to growth.

This episode of Leading Edge: Standing at the Crossroads dives into people-first leadership, building trust through communication, developing technicians and service advisors, and why culture and performance are inseparable. Eric explains how mentorship, integrity, and active listening have helped him create a workplace where people grow and customers feel genuinely cared for.

If you are thinking about the legacy you are building as a shop owner or leader, this conversation offers practical insight and honest reflection.

Want guidance on building a people-centered culture and long-term leadership legacy? Meet with Michael Smith for a leadership and legacy strategy conversation: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session

Host(s):

Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute

Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute

Guest(s):

Eric Henley, owner of H-Tek Auto

Show Highlights:

[00:01:53] - Eric traces his start in the trade back to fixing things with his grandfather and dad.

[00:04:15] - He says better communication makes you more impactful than just being “good at cars.”

[00:05:30] - A dealership owner’s personal leadership style became Eric’s blueprint.

[00:07:34] - After 18 years, Eric still maintains relationships with nearly every former employee.

[00:09:22] - High Performance Group helped him tighten accountability without losing kindness.

[00:15:51] - Eric uses a “three strikes” process to give people a real path to redemption.

[00:18:10] - Weekly Friday lunches create a safe forum to surface issues and improve fast.

[00:21:22] - He sees attitude, not skill, as the biggest separator in technician performance.

[00:35:24] - His delegation test is simple: fewer “Ask Eric” moments means real traction.

[01:29:16] - Eric wants to redeem the industry’s reputation by building trust-driven people.

👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ggxEcghxTz0

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Kent Bullard: Hi everybody. Welcome to the Institute's leading Edge, the Crossroads Podcast, where we examine the crucial decisions professionals make that define careers that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and that build lasting legacies. I'm Kent Bullard and I'm joined by my esteemed colleague Michael Smith.

Kent Bullard: And today we have the privilege of speaking with Eric Henley the owner of H Tech Auto Outta Tennessee. Our guest today is a lifelong automotive enthusiast whose journey began with an early fascination for cars, inspired by his father's project vehicles, after earning an associate's degree in automotive service technology from Northeast State.

Kent Bullard: He honed his skills working in dealerships from 1988 to 2005. In July, 2006, he took a leap of faith, starting his own business with a HELOC and a prayer. Over the past 18 years, he's navigated the challenge of entrepreneurship with determination and passion. A pivotal moment came in 2016 when he joined the Institute's twenties group, a decision he calls the best move he ever made for his business and personal growth.

Kent Bullard: Eric is also an active participant in the Institute's High performance group, and this year he was named Alumni of the Year by Northeast State, a testament to his impact on the industry and his community. We're excited to have him share his incredible journey and insights with us today. Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge, the Crossroads Podcast.

Kent Bullard: Those of you who are listening I'd like to just let you know that you can ask questions in the comments below. If you enjoy the content that we're gonna cover today, please like and share and you can find more information about us at We are the institute.com. Eric, thank you for joining us today.

Eric Henley: Oh, thank you. Appreciate the invitation. 

Kent Bullard: So I'd love to start. And kind of go back, I know I gave you an introduction, but I'd love to start with what originally drew you into the industry and what inspired you to commit to it? 

Eric Henley: I, well, it, like I said, the background you heard the background, mechanical, I mean, it started off with bicycles and lawnmowers with my grandfather, and then it turned into cars with my dad.

Eric Henley: And then from there, it's just it just fit. I honestly tried one year of college thinking about something else and decided that wasn't it. And so we, so I went into this field just with, you know, an honest, know-how and how things could come apart, go together. And so, enjoyed cars. It was a good time with my dad.

Eric Henley: And so from there I thought, well, I can make a living doing this. And so that's what I chose to do. And so, and I'll have to say I always wanted to know more. I always wanted to learn more about. How I could be a better technician. So I was always looking to improve. If they gave me an opportunity to go train, I would spent 15 years with Honda and they would send me to the training center in Alpharetta.

Eric Henley: And anytime they asked me, I was, yes. Anytime they asked me if there was something else I could take, I was, yes. So, yeah, I just wanna be the best technician I could be. And the end result with that was a lot more build hours, a lot more income. And I was a master tech at my trade for most of that time.

Michael Smith: Eric, you know, we love stories and we talk about stories a lot. What maybe is one thing that you could think of as a legacy that your dad left with you, that you've carried into where you are today? 

Eric Henley: Well, one of the things is just his even though he was a plant worker, he had a knack for a person just being personal with people he could find something in common with anyone and value conversations with people.

Eric Henley: So I think that's really helped me to always think about other people and to find things in common, to build relationships. So, yeah, that, that was probably one of the things that I would say that stands out to me. Mm-hmm. 

Michael Smith: That's a great takeaway. Thank you. 

Kent Bullard: What do you think what do you think drove you to seek more knowledge, to gain more skills to develop yourself?

Kent Bullard: What, where does that come from? 

Eric Henley: Well, I've always, like I mentioned earlier, I've always had that built in. Personally I took classes outside of outside of the trade and read books like all of us have to improve myself. But I think the better you are at communicating with people, the more impactful you can be in their lives.

Eric Henley: And so you could, I mean, you could touch lives, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And it's not always about just making money. It's about people and also learning to listen, actively listen to people, not just being the one, dominating the conversation and make sure they're heard that they know you're hurt, that they were heard, that you're not talking over them.

Eric Henley: So, it it's pushed me. To develop my communication skills more intently. 

Kent Bullard: Why do you think it's important that you invest in these people the way that you're talking about, to build that bridge of communication to understand them? Why do you, why is that so important? 

Eric Henley: Well, it's a, I mean, for me and I learned this in the dealership life as well.

Eric Henley: The owner there was very active in our lives, and he would come and talk. I mean, he wasn't some guy that was disconnected from them, from us. He smoked. This was back when smoking was popular. So he would come back into the bays, talked to us about our families, talked to us about whatever job we were working on.

Eric Henley: He would give us congrats. He actually hand signed every paycheck with a, some sort of encouragement on it. If he had a really great week. So I, you know, he kinda mentored me in that. So when I started my own business, that was the same, that was what I took with me. It was like, okay, this guy, you know, I thought very highly of him and his encouragement helped push me along.

Eric Henley: So I'm gonna do the same thing in the way I treat the people who work for me. And to be sure that, you know, I'm not just all about the hours or the sales. I care about what's going on in your family, what your hobby is, what, you know, how was fishing last week? So I've always tried to make that stroll through the shop.

Eric Henley: Even when I was in the shop as a technician, still working in my business, before I started working on it, I'd spend time talking to the guys who worked with me alongside me, and we did things together. You know, we did life together. And so I just felt like it it made work, not. As much work, if that makes sense.

Michael Smith: Oh, it makes total sense. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say you, we, we talk about this, you are blessed to have had that platform of leadership at the beginning in a positive way. 'cause a lot of us see leadership that we don't wanna replicate in the world that we live in with our first and second and third bosses.

Michael Smith: And the fact that you had somebody that walked around and felt that positive impact and chose to hold onto that is a great legacy that, that owner left for you. And it makes a big difference. The walk around recognition, the walk around relationship, that actual genuine caring is, that was a great start that you had from that perspective.

Michael Smith: And it's great to hear you carrying it forward. 

Eric Henley: Yes. Mm-hmm. It's been an asset for. For me and my business. Yeah those relationships. I'll just say I don't know if this is an appropriate time you can edit out, if not, but I'll tell you that I only have one former employee. So over 18 years we've turned over.

Eric Henley: I forget now how many we've turned over. It's not a lot. But out of the ones that have left, I only have one that was with me three weeks that I don't have a good relationship with host working for me. So, we've managed to forgive our differences if we had any or whatever the reason was that they left and still maintain friendships and relationships.

Eric Henley: And we actually do some things together. And some of them left under tense, you know, situations one, one in particular last year and he and I still meet and have lunch together. We text often and share in football's successes and. Whatever their interests are. So, I'll say even if they don't stay with me, I want to have a relationship that I made a difference in their life in some way even if they're not working for me.

Eric Henley: Absolutely. 

Michael Smith: So, and we talk quite a bit about whether we're drive for performance, so whether we drive for relationships, and obviously that's great testament to the fact that your drive for genuine relationships results in high performance, but also results in relationships that last, which is a fantastic testimony.

Michael Smith: So thank you for sharing that. That's great. 

Kent Bullard: Is can you go into, you know, what inspired you to focus on high performance and people driven, people development as a core part of your business strategy? I mean, you've talked a little bit about the why for you but what was the inspiration for bringing it in as a core function of your business?

Eric Henley: So I started noticing culture. Culture became a lot more important to me. And I knew that I'd done okay, but I knew I could do much better. And I'm long suffering by nature. So I'll tolerate some things that I don't necessarily like because I wanna see somebody redeemable or get better. So I was struggling with that.

Eric Henley: And we all face, you know, technician shortages, sales staff shortages. There's a lot of things that happen when you turn somebody over. You don't just get someone right away. So that the High Performance group, what it's done for me is to help shape that culture and also I guess temper me a little bit to where I'll hold somebody more accountable for a cultural thing.

Eric Henley: A vi a culture, a core value violation. And I mean, and say it. And the other thing, I know it's given me the ability to say it in a kind way that it's corrective, but it's it's in a positive sense, it's firm, but with feeling. And so, I think that has probably helped me. And one of the reasons I got into high performance groups for that, we had our numbers.

Eric Henley: We had the GPG and you know, we knew our numbers well, but this is next level stuff is the way we talked about it. And from now with all the legwork we've done with the vision, the mission, the core values and operating principles, all those exercises we've gone through, I can just see this kind of coalescing and gelling into it just equals a better relationship at work, a better and more production for those that buy in to it, the ones that don't.

Eric Henley: Well, you can see the difference. The ones that sort of, they agree to it and they'll nod to it, but it even affects how much they make. And it is the hierarchy that, that you talk about a lot, Michael, is the, is it sounds like Woo. And several years ago I would've said, eh, you know, I've worked around guys.

Eric Henley: They can be jerks. They still work. Well, that's not necessarily the case. There's a lot higher level things. Your culture. And so I guess if that's a long answer to why I'm in the high performance group. 

Michael Smith: Well, I kind of wanna unpack one thought a little bit further. You mentioned being long suffering.

Michael Smith: Yes. And then having a sort of an accelerating thought process about dealing with toxicity, dealing with issues that manifest themselves as countercultural. Can you just give us a couple more thoughts on that, go a little bit deeper about how your thinking has been developing along those lines? 

Eric Henley: Yeah. So I guess just to be practical.

Eric Henley: So for instance, maybe a technician who is not bought in. So we pull 'em aside and have a conversation, say, okay, we talk about all the positives the things they're doing great. And then we go into, and here are some things that we see that are holding you back. And the only reason they're holding you back is because of it is the guy in the mirror.

Eric Henley: You have every opportunity, like the others who are bought into culture and you can see the end result. And because they've got a scoreboard, they can see what each other's hours are built for the week. So we use examples like that. We use it in the way we train our service advisors and the way they interact with people.

Eric Henley: That latest thing we've been talking about at HPG with customer experience, it's changed the way our sales staff talks to people when they take the, when they take the information from the customer, from the time they accept it online or in person. There's a deeper thought of each one is important.

Eric Henley: Each person is important. And so it's changed the way we treat people. We're not just trying to get information out of 'em quickly and move on to the next one. We spend a little extra time, but I think our reviews reflect this change the, especially the most recent ones within the last couple of months.

Eric Henley: I don't know if that answers your question. 

Michael Smith: Absolutely. No that's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for that reflection. 

Kent Bullard: I had another thought that I wanted to get back to. You mentioned redemption. I love, you know, having a path to redeem themselves. Do you think that the practice of redemption is important or plays an important role in running a high performing team?

Eric Henley: Yeah. Yes, because I mean, let's just face it, none of the three of us have it all figured out. We all have our weaknesses and we continue to work on ourselves because, we'll, we're imperfect. So, but we have, you know, if you have a drive to improve. Why would you not have that same desire for the person that you've maybe somebody that's been there for a while and now they're trying to buy into this new concept of how we're gonna operate.

Eric Henley: This these are declared things we live by. This is how we conduct ourselves. This is how we think about ourselves, and this is what we want our everything that we face the public with to be a reflection of that. I mean, that's what that's what our customers. So, I think giving someone a chance, that's the long suffering part.

Eric Henley: Personality is more that I'll work on somebody for a while instead of just I want it done or get out. There's other personalities that, that's the way they think of things. So I've always just, I try to put myself in their shoes and think of it from their perspective. Before I come out and talk to 'em about it.

Eric Henley: So it's just a, it's a self-evaluation of trying to think how that person is looking at their job each day. 

Michael Smith: So when do you, Eric, sort of make that shift in your mind? And it's gonna be different in every scenario I know, but what sort of causes you to eventually turn the corner from redemption as a model to a more remedial approach?

Michael Smith: What generally, what happens in your thought process that takes you to the point of having to deal with the unresolved toxic issue at that point? 

Eric Henley: So mine, mine is usually, I mean, you basically, you could come down and say it, basically it's three strikes. So if we've had a two conversations over the same issue the third time is the ultimatum.

Eric Henley: And from that point, that usually means they'll. They'll either change or they'll move on. 

Michael Smith: Yeah. Or not. 

Eric Henley: And so that's, I mean, I like to give people time to change. And the only things I would say that would be an immediate remedial thing is, you know, something criminal. You know, they're stealing from the customer in some way, or they're stealing from us or something dishonest, you know, a repair that was intentionally, you know, half done and those would be the things.

Eric Henley: Or someone in supervision who went outside of anything that you, I mean, that's what happened last year with with one of my managers. He didn't run something by me before he actually had the meeting. And had he we would've probably said it a little differently. I think he was defending me well with and making some corrections.

Eric Henley: But I think it is just the manner which it was delivered. You can say things a lot of different ways and you can still get your point across without, you know, coming across in a very abrupt, sharp direction. So, but usually three strikes and you're out. That's been my 'cause. Your first one's verbal.

Eric Henley: The second one's verbal with written, and the final one is a verbal with a written, and this is it. And, you know, they either straighten up or they move on. And so that's how I've, that's how I've made my decisions for the file straw, I guess is what you're asking. 

Kent Bullard: So your process for correction is really coming in and.

Kent Bullard: Helping them define a path towards redemption, not necessarily disciplinary to say, you know, here's all the things you've done incorrect. You know, I'm punishing you in these ways, but more so, hey, let's work together to look at a plan to help you achieve your best potential. 

Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we, another thing we'll do is we'll have an issues stay.

Eric Henley: Like I, we do Friday lunches with all our employees each Friday. Some of them are in-house in the shop, catered in, and other ones are out to eat. Those are usually just for fun, but we'll have each person just around the table come up with an issue maybe they faced this week that we can improve a process or change something on the digital vehicle inspection, or add something or take something away, or maybe a parts issue we need to solve.

Eric Henley: So we're always troubleshooting. We don't think we've got everything. So, so every person and I usually say, listen guys, you've heard me say this a hundred times. I'm not the smartest guy around the table here. Each of you have something to add to what we do, and we value what you have to say.

Eric Henley: That's not to say that we'll always apply everything mentioned here but if we've thought it through and this is a good change for everyone, then let's make it, it makes us all better. And so that's kind of how we deal with issues and would not let things fester. We give 'em a forum to bring it up.

Michael Smith: Well, and the collaborative conversation is one of the big pillars in a high performance culture is that ongoing, genuine collaboration, the fact that they bring it up and you welcome it and then you solve the problem as a group is wonderful. It's great foundational stuff. 

Kent Bullard: There's such, you know, I say it.

Kent Bullard: All the time. But there's such profound value in breaking bread with people, sharing a meal and being able to have that open dialogue over, over good food with one another. It kind of puts you in a setting that's a little more even keeled. We all, we're all human. We all eat. And so this is a, you know, I commend you to do that.

Kent Bullard: And anybody who's listening, I mean, I would highly recommend that you have some kind of regular meal that you share with your team. 

Michael Smith: Especially the ones where you go out to a restaurant, you don't do any business. You guys just hang out together. That's fantastic. For fun. Yeah, just for fun.

Eric Henley: Yeah. It will increase your you usually book that as a training expense. 'cause you're all, you're talking about things to improve the business, but it'll increase your training expense. But for me it's a small price to pay, to not have issues that are really small issues that grow into something that's like a festered wound that you should have dressed a long time ago.

Eric Henley: It's better to head it off early when it's small. And then let it go. And I, that's a lesson I've learned in the past too. I've let things go too long. I guess any shop owner sometimes just sit back and hopes for the best, and that never happens. 

Kent Bullard: Well, it's kind of uncomfortable having, having the thought of, well, I now have to go have a conflict over this issue.

Kent Bullard: And it's like, most often, if you just get it done quickly, it's a lot less of a hill to cross than if you let it continue on. 

Eric Henley: No, you're right. I was wrong in that way. I'll do better still. What, after all these months, now you really bring this up, you know, that kind of thing. So, 

Kent Bullard: yeah. 

Eric Henley: Anyway, 

Kent Bullard: So I, I want to go and talk.

Kent Bullard: I'd love for you to tell us about your experience with getting your team involved, especially with your, you know, your commitment to human centricity. How did the team take that? 

Eric Henley: Y for the most part, except for, I think I have two. Have semi bought in. And those are ones that I'm still not positive. They're, they may be getting close to the three strikes, but all the rest of 'em were like, after they started.

Eric Henley: I mean, and we had to talk about it a lot 'cause it took, you know, they have to understand where you're coming from here. 'cause a lot of shops, a lot of guys are gonna think, oh, this is woo, what are we doing? This is the latest thing. What are you bringing in? That kind of thing. But after we had some good conversations about it and what does this mean?

Eric Henley: How does this affect us? They were like, yeah, this is, I agree. And so, you know, we sent a couple of 'em to, to the leadership intensive. And they came back with my son for one as really turned into a self development fiend. He loves to read things to improve himself. We are actually having to coach him, not to spend all of his time reading, spend time with his wife doing some fun things.

Eric Henley: And then the other, the latest one Alex is coming back with some some changes. And that's still, he's still digesting it but they they want to the ones that are bought in two technicians for instance, they want to train, they want to be masters of their trade. They want to get better.

Eric Henley: They'll come ask me for training instead of just waiting for the latest, you know, Napa training or whatever that comes up. Well, they'll ask me to go to the Charlotte I can't think of the, which name you, you were probably at it, but at any rate, he asked to go. And so we put, we sent him and he learned a lot of great things and brought those back and shared them across the other technicians there.

Eric Henley: So. They just, they see how it affects what they're doing. And the other thing is to see these two technicians who are producing way more hours than the other two. And they all do the same quality DVI, you can look across any of their D vs. There's good pictures, there's good comments. They're all, there's no really shortcuts.

Eric Henley: They're not pencil whipped. And the difference is the attitude 

Kent Bullard: about what they do every day. These two come in with an overcoming attitude. These two come in with like, 

Eric Henley: You know, they're we're gonna, we're technicians and that kind of thing. So it affects it affects them, but I can see a partial buy-in with them.

Eric Henley: That's the reason I still think there might be some room there that the sales staff was like a media, even my newest employee, which is our courtesy maintenance shuttle driver. His desire is to become a technician someday. He's like, I've never worked for a place like this. And he is from, he's from coming from California and came out of the grocery store industry and he's like, this kind of culture is just, I've never seen anything like this.

Eric Henley: So, it's made that kind of impact on what we're doing now. 

Michael Smith: Yeah. And that, and I wanted to throw that in there. We talk in this industry unique, competitive advantage is hard to come by. And you were mentioning earlier, maybe also the two technicians that are slowly buying in, if we can be optimistic about it, are come out of backgrounds where they were abused, used and abused.

Michael Smith: And so the concept that you stand up and say, I actually care about you as a person. They're like, eh maybe not. Let me see what happens here. Maybe they're slow sales. They're slow. They're slow to buy in. Maybe they'll never get there. You know, if they don't ever get there, that's then a truth tape problem.

Michael Smith: Right? What's, what their belief structure looks like, and if this conflicts with that, they don't change their structure, then we all know they won't eventually get with it. But the attitude you were talking about's a symptom. That's a symptom of what they believe, a symptom of their history. So I thank you for the testimonial here.

Michael Smith: It's great discussion too about what happens when you bring something powerful to the group that's different. Some people change quick, some people don't. Right? Some people take a little more thinking, a little more buy-in, and it's just a, it's a great story that you told. Thank you for that. Thanks for unpacking it.

Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. 

Kent Bullard: I think there's something to be said. You know, I've spoken with a lot of shop owners who have an apprehension about introducing this kind of stuff to their team. They're not gonna be interested in this. This is what did you say? Woo kind of stuff. Yeah. And everybody's looking for that buy-in at the same time.

Kent Bullard: So one, they're apprehensive about this, but two, they also want their team to buy in. They want, how do I get my guys to say, I wanna go to training, I wanna develop, I wanna grow myself. What strategies or philosophies have you found to be most effective in developing and nurturing that talent and that drive within your team?

Eric Henley: Well, yeah. We do a weekly sales training on Wednesday at lunch with my service advisors. And so with them, I just use practical application. I think I've kind of paired some of what we've done 

Michael Smith: with 

Eric Henley: the the old book Adele Carnegie, how to Win Friends and Influence People. And so it, it changes their thought process and how they present.

Eric Henley: They, they own stewardship of the customer's vehicle and. They also on intake, this is something Seth really picked up on, is what do people want? You gotta ask them what they want. So you empower them and you guide them in their decision making process about whatever they need. And so with them, they can see directly and I intend to show them with the the thing that inbound offers with the conversation temperature of a, the AI on that is to show the difference and what, when they really are presenting in that manner, what that sounds like and what, how the customer reacts to it.

Eric Henley: You can see a marked difference in the responses. The guard is down, there's more trust, and that's one thing our industry needs is to be trusted. And so with them, I think it's easier on the front. The back the technicians, and I don't like using front and back, we're a team, but that's a common term used in our industry, the front and the back.

Eric Henley: Is that okay guys? Every bit of information you collect and the diligence you go to reveal as much about the vehicle's condition in a clear manner helps our customer make the best decision as well. And then the other thing is to be willing to collaborate with the, with your service advisor on what the best estimate is for this, what the best steps are there gonna be other steps unknown?

Eric Henley: Make sure they're aware of that. And so they're thinking ahead, okay this is the first step. And that's how the verbiage reads. And the say, say it's the initial concern for the day, whatever the customer came in for. This will be the first step in this process. And this could resolve it, but there may be other things.

Eric Henley: And so that, that helps the other, it helps the service advisor when he has to make the second call, 'cause he is already, he's already prepped. And so they think about it in a way that's okay, this is not just about me selling a bunch of hours to bill more hours for me. We're looking out for a customer's best interest, their safety and to communicate very clearly to them what they need and what they can wait on.

Eric Henley: So in the back that's I would say the technicians that have bought into more of that's more of the communication. You can see a little more robust, richer communication between them and service advisors, both in text on the DBI and in conversation when they go up front to expound on what they've.

Eric Henley: Said mm-hmm. 

Michael Smith: And then e Eric, intellectually, emotionally, the concept of stewardship that you mentioned and the fact that done right over time builds loyal brand ambassador customers the best kind. How have you discussed that internally to get that connection? It's a little bit different in our industry.

Michael Smith: How have you gotten that, how have you handled that internally to have your people start to understand it and make the connection and make it a part of real life talk? Tell us a little bit about the process, if you will. 

Eric Henley: So one of the things we do, just to show them what a great experience is if we get the review it's shared across the service advisor and the technician.

Eric Henley: And then we've also thought about sharing it across the whole shop. Maybe at one of the lunch and learns we do with all the staff around the table. Just to show what a great how a great experience, what that does. So that's one of the ways we talk about it. And then there's just a there's that pat on the back, the walk through the shop.

Eric Henley: Matt has our service manager has really started practicing that a lot. If it's been a very challenging repair he'll go back and congratulate the technician for success in that. And if it's been a challenging one, he will grad congratulate them for persevering through it. And that's been something I've tried to leave as an example.

Eric Henley: We have a very challenging repair on a Toyota right now. And this technician is very, you know, he is very technical. He follows the process like, I mean, he's one of the best. Unfortunately, something didn't go right and. The engine's still out of the vehicle. So, but I'm like, listen, you know, you're a great technician and just like, I'm not a perfect person.

Eric Henley: You're not a perfect person either. And things happen. This is not a perfect world, but we'll get through this and we'll succeed and we'll over, we'll adapt and overcome. And so that's, I guess in the from a technician's perspective, that was one of the conversations we had right before I left. This morning I was stopped by to visit for a bit.

Eric Henley: And it's like, you know, you guys, you have that. We're gonna get this we're gonna overcome these challenges. And and with that, we're gonna offer the customer. Something that most shops don't offer is integrity and honesty. That we own our mistakes. We eat our mistakes, and we're very transparent about, we don't try to cover 'em up.

Eric Henley: There's many ways to deceive people in this industry. It's been done. But our commitment is that absolute integrity. So if you make a mistake, do not feel shame that you have to admit it. Even if we lose money on it, we'll gain in the long run. And we know what we've done. We don't have to remember what we told 'cause we know it's honest.

Michael Smith: Yeah. On, well, you've mentioned integrity and that's fabulous. There's humility, right? Involved in admitting that it didn't go right or mistakes were made or whatever. And grace, you ask for grace from the customer, you give grace to each other. You're giving grace to the master technician who is stuck at this point.

Michael Smith: And it's like we all get there at one point. That's a beautiful triad. Tho those three ideas, integrity, humility, and grace. What a great stool culturally. To stand your relationships on. That's fantastic. Eric, 

Kent Bullard: I wanna go back to one thing and Michael, I'm interested to know your perspective on this from the psych psychological aspect.

Kent Bullard: You know, we talk about getting the buy-in and all that. Eric, you had mentioned their decision making capabilities, their ownership, their own personal choices that they're able to make. I think what prevents a lot of growth in teams is that leadership is too restrictive in the sense that if you're gonna develop somebody, you have to have I mean you mentioned stewardship, you have to give them the freedom to own their area of accountability.

Kent Bullard: And Michael, what do you think prevents. That type of, or I mean, what causes that restriction? 

Michael Smith: Sure. I, Eric, we've talked about this in the high performance group together a lot. It's a trust platform that's rocky. And so the an owner will give responsibility away. Maybe they give authority away, maybe not really, sort of, but not really.

Michael Smith: And then accountability is a little fuzzy because the owner's a little nervous to see if it's gonna work or not. And they want to give a person a chance to work it out and something doesn't work out. Right. So that beautiful three-legged stool responsibility, accountability, and authority is not fully established in this relationship with the person who's taking on a new task.

Michael Smith: Right. And this is the issue that Eric, we've talked about the path to mastery and stepping over the comfort zone into the unknown and falling on your face. That's where mastery is developed. You don't become a master by doing the same thing. You know how to do over and over with no risk. So when they step over the wall, they are gonna fall down.

Michael Smith: You kind of want 'em to, 'cause it's part of the experience. You don't want to catch 'em before they hit the ground. You want 'em to hit the ground and learn and get back up again. Then they build a resolve and a resilience to go do it. And if we don't fully transfer. Responsibility and authority and accountability.

Michael Smith: That's, it's a rocky, big, soft ground. And then somebody stumbles and maybe we reach out and catch 'em. Maybe we try to turn away and hope they don't fall down and don't know what to say. And it's that, it's all comes back to trust. Yeah, exactly. Right. And it all comes back to trust. It comes back to trust.

Michael Smith: They trust you, you trust them. It gets stronger in the culture. You say, I want you to try something. They're like, you know what? I fell down twice. Eric picked me back up again. I didn't get judged and penalized for it. I'm gonna try this third bigger thing. And now you've got a culture of mastery. Now you have a high performance culture of individuals developing and it's, it takes a little while to get that trust bill.

Michael Smith: 'cause again, we don't come from an industry that's trust rich, either internally or externally. So yeah, there's a wants, wants traction. I mean, tell us and detraction, right, traction's happening in your place. So can you tell us a little bit about that traction and some of the things you see that is evidence to you that it's building?

Eric Henley: Yeah, so one of the simple gauges I use, this is easy for almost any shop owner who's facing trying to let go. Is that your name? How many times is your name? Ask Eric, what do you think? Eric? Eric, what do you think? So anytime you hear that it, I mean, you might, if you hear it once, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a good gauge of how your business will operate without you being present.

Eric Henley: And so I usually, if they ask me a question, I'll ask them what they think should be the next step, and then they'll tell me what they think it is. And if I have nothing to add, I'll think, okay, that sounds fair to me. And why don't you go with that. I trust you on that decision, or, that's a great, that's a great decision.

Eric Henley: I might add one thing that you might. Consider going into this, but I want you to own the decision and whatever the consequences are of it just for instance, taking in an older car, that's gonna be a challenging repair. I used it for a lesson for my son recently. He wanted to help someone who was an older gentleman, had a sick son with cancer, and the car had been setting for a long time.

Eric Henley: And Seth asked me about it and I said, well, what do you think? And he's like, well, I really wanna help the guy. And he said, it could be a challenging repair. I said, yes. And so then I went on to tell him, I said, so this is an older vehicle could be a challenge to find parts. There's lots of things that may not be available anymore.

Eric Henley: But I'm gonna let you make that decision. And and I didn't try to gloat over it. I was ripe, but. I say, okay, you know, going forward, this is a lesson, pick yourself back up and going forward, you'll know what to do. And I'm not opposed to doing the right thing. I'll donate labor to people and if we're, if it's a good cause.

Eric Henley: That's what we do. I mean, 

Michael Smith: see Eric, your model hits on a very important mastery journey component. And that is that the high level journey people and the masters are the first ones that are gonna feel micromanaged. If they say, Eric, what do you think? And you give them the answer, the people in the lower levels of development will be grateful for that answer.

Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. If it's a cultural tenant to ask Eric the question, the minute you start to answer the masters are either gonna be not listening or gonna be angry that you gave him the solution. 'cause masters like to figure it out for themselves. And your very model helps both the apprentice level people like, well, what do you think?

Michael Smith: And instead of relying on you to give them an answer, and you know, having tried to learn another language, if I ask the person who knows the language, the answer to that word, and they just give it to me, I don't remember it. But if they go look it up, or you go figure it out and I have to go figure it out, it sticks in there better.

Michael Smith: And so your model takes it all the way from apprentice out through master to help them to learn to stand on their own. And that's a really powerful thing that you exercise. I wanted to catch that on the way by that's great leadership practice that you have 

Eric Henley: and speak and the traction of that too.

Eric Henley: So not, was this car a bad decision for us to take on? Yeah, probably from a financial perspective, but one of the high culture technicians who was working on it and desired to finally fix it for the guy, he knew the story. Seth had told him he came in on a Saturday and donated nine hours of his time.

Eric Henley: Unbuilt not clocked on anything, researching and doing tests to, to resolve the issue for this customer. So you just. Well, I mean, what flat rate technician does that? That's you don't, most of 'em are not wired like that. I don't know that I would've been at that age mid thirties. I've only been like, yeah, but that's the type of cult, that's the type of people you attract.

Eric Henley: Anyway, I interviewed this guy. This is before I had HPG. I could just tell. I, that is one of the things I guess I, I meant to mention earlier in the conversation is that dad's influence on me made me kind of discern certain people there, and I could just tell I look people in the eyes and I watch body language and I saw a genuine person here.

Eric Henley: So some of that's just, you know, thankfully built in. But there's a lot of this I've learned on to layer on top of that. It just makes it better. The things I'm wearing for y'all through this is. It's I never would've thought I'd been where we're at now with this. It's just, I, it's a blur.

Kent Bullard: Well, Eric I've gotta commend you for giving your people the space, you know, just to recap, asking them what do they think?

Kent Bullard: Either, either recognizing, hey, that is a good decision, you made a good choice. Also if you do need to add something, hey, I've got something to add to that, to your already good choice. I think in society today we've forgot how mentorship works in the sense that information is so easily attained through phones, through the internet.

Kent Bullard: You know, a lot of the youth don't necessarily get look upward. And at this point, it's a lot easier to allow the youth to go just to the internet versus having a relationship of mentorship. And I say that meaning, kind of to summarize, go back. Think about the mentors that you had going, you know, as you were becoming a tech.

Kent Bullard: So the listeners out there, as you were becoming a master you had mentors that probably gave you the space to fail. And I think because a lot of businesses or teams are in a position of desperation where they're just trying to make it work. They don't allow that space to make mistakes, to grow and to develop.

Kent Bullard: And I think you, you absolutely have to have that flexibility to understand that this person is not at my level and I need to meet them where they're at and allow them that opportunity to try and to fail and to learn. 'cause that's ultimately how they develop and grow. And eventually they're gonna be somebody who is either at my level or even beyond that.

Kent Bullard: And so I just want to commend you for allowing that to happen. 

Eric Henley: That reminds, that just brought to back a memory of my early days when I first came to Honda. Before the internet, we had the old manuals on the shelf and you didn't have a phone or a computer to look at. And I had been there about a couple days and I was trying to solve a problem on a car, and I went over to ask another technician beside of me and he said, have you looked in the repair manual yet?

Eric Henley: And I was like, well, no. He's like, all right, you go look in this chapter and they'll, that gets you in the range where you need to be to figure out how to do this job. And if you can't solve that problem, then I'd be happy to come over and help you. So to me, that was a lesson problem solving that you put back on the person that, that needs to learn something because you can tell somebody anything, but if they don't know how to practice it, if you're always the guy bailing them out, well then guess what?

Eric Henley: You got a lot of hay. Erics, 

Michael Smith: It's a beautiful story though, because instead of leaving them. Looking in the universe for an answer. You sort of turn their head toward this and say, okay, now go there and come back if you have more questions. And it's a beautiful way of doing it. You do bring your expertise, but you don't do it in the way of solving the problem for It's a great story.

Michael Smith: You'll find the 

Kent Bullard: answer to your question at the top of the mountain. 

Michael Smith: Yeah, right. This mountain. Just climb the mountain. That 

Kent Bullard: one or that one? 

Michael Smith: Lemme go. 

Kent Bullard: I love that. Love. 

Michael Smith: It's great. 

Kent Bullard: I wanna shift the conversation here because you had leaned in and you said I saw in his eyes. So not only developing the people that you have, but how do you attract the people that are come?

Kent Bullard: Like what are you looking for at the people that are coming in? What are some of the unique how do you approach hiring for a high performance team? How do you approach screening the right people into your team? 

Eric Henley: I usually, the first thing I'll look for is humility. If I have a chest beater I have, I could tell you the technicians I've had in the past that I've hired on their proclamation of their skill and how they configure things out has always come with a poor culture fit.

Eric Henley: Now, I will say that you can't just hire on culture. There has to be some skill and some abilities. There are people that are not built to work on, you know, do the mechanical side. There's people not built to talk to people on the sales side. But generally it is I'll read the personality first, just my discernment of them.

Eric Henley: I don't, I haven't implemented a disc assessment. I just usually meet them. I'll meet 'em usually in the evening or on a weekend when no one's there. Walk them through the shop and just talk to them and kind of get a feeling of a couple hours with that person. If they've made it, you know, to me if they're just online or that kind of thing, I, it's hard to determine, you know, you can only get so much and a lot of 'em wanna text and there's a lack of, you can't really get a genuine feel of someone.

Eric Henley: So I generally like to see someone face to face or hear their voice. The first interview I had that was really outside of the norm was my hire from Washington State. He was he sought us out off career forms on our website and he sent the career form in. One of my staff brought it to me, and I normally would not look at that very long and then file it because it's somebody from across the, you know, and I didn't, at that point, I didn't really need someone, it's part of the funnel. You know, you keep your funnel of people to as you're recruiting. But there was something different about the tone the way he spoke to me. And then I invited him out so I could meet them in person. And they were open to that before they ever decided to move here. And took him around, drove him around, showing him the area took him to the shop.

Eric Henley: His husband, I mean, his wife came with him. And so we we just got to know him personally, what their likes were, what their interests were, and from there I could tell that it was gonna be a fit. So that's generally how I start off. I don't look for the skill or the certifications right off the bat.

Eric Henley: They'll tell me about 'em, you know, 'cause that's part of the career form. But then from there it's just a it's a really, just a personal interaction, a conversation. 

Michael Smith: Well, just to punctuate that point, I love the order that you put it in. If it's not a cultural fit, you're not interested in whether they have the technical skills or not.

Michael Smith: And it's easier to find technical skills online than it is cultural fit online. So I just to validate your model, very smart way to do it. Don't waste your time Having technical validation and then finding it's not a culture fit. Right. The rarer thing is the culture fit. 

Kent Bullard: I think it also kind of points to, I know this person has the right attitude.

Kent Bullard: I know they have the right perspective, and if they're missing or having a few gaps in their technical competency, we can make up with training and we can teach them those skills. If there's somebody that's worth investing in terms of our team dynamic. 

Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. And they'll want to, 

Kent Bullard: and that they want to.

Kent Bullard: Yeah, 

Eric Henley: they'll want to, they'll come ask you to go to Charlotte for a weekend to learn about something. That they're interested in or they'll bring up online courses, or they'll be the one in today's class that is leading the pack. Their daily studies. So,

Michael Smith: well and I'll say this right in technical skills is an intellectual learn and it goes in emotionally, you know, approved as another thing that will help my personal success.

Michael Smith: Cultural stuff comes out of the heart, comes off the truth, tapes comes outta history, comes outta fear, comes outta prior success comes out of security and insecurity and esteem and all that. And so, you know, you can change technical skills at the intellectual level, a hell of a lot easier than you can change deep felt emotion based cultural tenets, right?

Michael Smith: So PE people can change anything they want to change, but culture is a bigger stretch for an individual to go deep, scarier, harder to do. And so I again validates the approach that you take very smart right to to do the technical stuff at the end. So, 

Eric Henley: but it takes a little longer. Because there, there's a whole lot of guys out there that you don't want.

Michael Smith: Yes. 

Eric Henley: And once you get them, it takes a while to get rid of them. 

Michael Smith: Right. 

Eric Henley: And they poison your culture 

Michael Smith: well. So your model is you kiss a lot of toads. Right. And the s and princesses show up at that point, so, yeah. Yeah. Got it. Yep. 

Kent Bullard: So as you're building your team and you're building your culture how do you approach the balance between driving for business results?

Kent Bullard: 'cause obviously you need that to sustain the business to again, sustain the people and maintaining a supportive, human-centric environment. 

Eric Henley: They you're speaking of KPIs, measurables who we created a scoreboard that is digital for the technicians to view each week. And it's updated each Monday from the previous week.

Eric Henley: So they can actually see a lot of the things that we ask 'em to do. You know, you know, hours, perro, a RO, a car count pictures per inspection, all that proficiency, efficiency and productivity. So they can see that the service advisors have the reports and the point of sale we use to view their numbers.

Eric Henley: But one of the things I started to implement more recently is an actual, just a little scorecard of a index card for them. 'cause I felt like there was something, we talked about one of our meetings about ink and pen and paper being more impactful and just having a digital thing that they look at.

Eric Henley: So, so we talk about measurables. They are, they have to be measured. I mean, you don't know where you're at if you have no, you know, no measure. But see those are. Yeah, but the culture side of it is just like, you know, like, for instance, the technicians who are more bought in, look at your numbers.

Eric Henley: Look at what you're doing. This is what's, I mean, this is what's driving this. And I think there's, the two of 'em are starting to get it. The other ones I'm not sure yet. The, again, these are the two that I'm thinking may or may not. So it, it's just a matter of, Hey guys, when we practice these things we've talked about and we live them out in the way we conduct ourselves here, as, as strange as this sounds, it just works out.

Eric Henley: It's, I don't know that you could really give a direct description of how culture causes better production, but when you got it. It just does. 

Michael Smith: It does. And I'll validate that, right? If you're chasing performance culture may or may not happen. But if you're killing the culture, performance happens because the people who are there are into what you believe in.

Michael Smith: The meaning drives them from within. They want the KPIs to prove to themselves and the team around them that they're contributing to the success of the championship team you built. It really is driven. It's both. It's not either or. It's both culture and KPIs. Right? It's beautiful. 

Eric Henley: We, we were just for instance, last week, we were two, two days out from the end of the month and 'cause we were closed Thursday and Friday and they had a ton of sold work and we had one out sick.

Eric Henley: And so we asked the two, well they asked all the techs, but two of them, the two better culture fits that we have, they asked 'em to stay over and knock some work out after hours. So they were gonna sacrifice some of their time. We offered their supper, you know, or their dinner at, to buy 'em something to eat and to support them anyway.

Eric Henley: And the service advisor stayed over to be sure that they, if they ran into a parks problem. So these guys were like, okay, but you're trying to finish your month out and it's important to you because of sales and we, this will be good for both because we'll bill more hours. And so it was reciprocal between the two of 'em.

Eric Henley: It was, this is not the front and the back. This is us trying to hit our numbers and trying to serve our customers by getting the vehicle back to them before Thanksgiving day weekend, you know, where they might be needed to travel or extra car for something. And so there was several reasons that they did it.

Eric Henley: The other one was sick. He couldn't help that. It was, but the other one chose not to. That was just a good indication to me. Like, okay, I can see the difference. This is a culture thing right here. He doesn't really care about anybody but himself and in this particular situation. So, I dunno if that answers your question, but, or if I got sidetracked 

Kent Bullard: to, to kind, no.

Kent Bullard: To kind of summarize this, you know, 'cause I'm thinking there's gonna be shop owners or there's gonna be professionals out there listening to the podcast that go, well, I'm nervous to put a scorecard up or a leaderboard up because I'm afraid that it's gonna breed com competition amongst my team.

Kent Bullard: And it might create some divisiveness. But I think, Michael, you kind of hit the nail on the head by saying the right team is gonna look at that and compare it to their contribution to the team, not their contribution to their ego. 

Michael Smith: Yeah I'll build on this, Eric. And we, and people are free to have different opinions about it.

Michael Smith: I believe if you have a broken culture where people are competing against each other internally, having a scoreboard that's shared is a, that's a problem. If I had that, if I bought a shop and I found that I would pull that board down, I would go to individual conversations about personal performance and personal development on their individual paths to mastery.

Michael Smith: Once I got the culture healed and grown. The fact that they're actually positive people working together. They're starting to act like a team. They're helping each other doing exactly what you talked about. Then I'd put the board back up again because at that point it's not like, oh Eric, you know, you got a better job than I did.

Michael Smith: And they always do that. You know how things can go sideways in a bad culture. Once I believe in you and you believe in me, and you stayed over once to help me and I ran to the parts store when I was supposed to go home and brought it to you so you could finish your job. Once we get to that point, I want this stuff on the board because then I'm pushing you, you're pushing me, I'm encouraging you, you're encouraging me.

Michael Smith: And at that point, the board is nothing but helpful in a toxic environment. The board is toxic. In a healthy environment, the board is healthy. Mm-hmm. And in between the transitions, little pieces of paper and little private conversations until you feel like it turned a corner. So it's a very interesting thing, right?

Kent Bullard: You're 

Michael Smith: kind, the board itself is not the issue. 

Kent Bullard: You're kind of pulling it back 'cause you're like, Hey, you kind of have a skewed perspective on why we're doing this. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back the curtains. I'm gonna try to re. Focus you in a different area so you can actually see the reason why we have these, reset those foundations.

Kent Bullard: I love that. 

Eric Henley: But, and that was one of the, when we rolled out vision, mission, values and principles, we said this is all about us serving our customer at a higher level. This is what all of this is about. And it's not about how many hours you build, it's not about primarily or about how many how much sales you produce that month.

Eric Henley: Those will come if you care more about the customer's interest than how many hours you bill or how many sales you make, or how, what your average RO is. When that, when the primary driver is this, that we've agreed upon and we've collaborated and agreed upon this, then anything less than that is a violation of this.

Eric Henley: And if you can't live by these things, then there's, I don't think you're gonna be satisfied here. And you will find that on the board, 

Michael Smith: which is a great perspective, right? I'm not satisfied here. And the answer is then I would really encourage you to go find a place where you know, your you desire and the fit there is a better fit for you.

Michael Smith: And then when they go, we always talk about putting a more culturally aligned person back in the slot, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kent Bullard: So I wanna shift here. You know, we've been talking a lot about the culture, the values. How do you feel that your focus on those things has impacted your marketing or your brand identity to your customers and your community?

Eric Henley: Oh, huge. I just, after we we did that exercise and I pretty much had it. We had it nailed down with a few edits. I went and my. My web content on the page is all different. It's gradually getting rolled out. It's not all like I want it yet. 'cause they, it, there's apparently a Google algorithm.

Eric Henley: If you roll too much out, it can if you don't have a website, it's not a big deal. But if you've got a website that's ranking, then it can affect it. So, so we spent some money significant money making sure that our website communicates that in all the stuff that's written. So we had a very personal interview with the lady who wrote my content about, I want this in here.

Eric Henley: I want that in there. The here's what we're, here's what we wanna communicate across every vehicle that they read about on our website or everything that's in on our website. We want these things woven into that. And so that's been. One of the ways that we've that we, that it's affected our marketing and branding and it's still going forward.

Eric Henley: I'm still working on those things. As we learn more about it, of different ways our, the way I speak with people our referral group meetings is different. The way my service advisors, again it's been amazing, the effect it's made on the way they talk with each person. So that that re that that was one of our marketing goals the last two years.

Eric Henley: Is that the best customer experience? That is, that is a marketing tool because those people will go tell other people and asking for the reviews. And when you're acting like you're supposed to, those reviews reflect it too. You'll see it in the. The way the customer replies in it, if they leave comments.

Kent Bullard: Can I, 

Eric Henley: our direct, go ahead. 

Kent Bullard: Oh, I was gonna say, can I ask just for clarity, for the people who are listening to this, you were saying that your communication is different. The way you talk about it is different. The way that you're gonna, this up on your website is gonna be different. Can you give an example of what that would look like for the listener so that they understand why it's different?

Eric Henley: Y yeah, because it's not just stating you know, we work on accuracy and we're the best. It's like, okay, this is your second largest investment. And we value the fact that this is, I'm not sure if I'm saying this correctly, but we want to be sure that this is safe for you and reliable. We want, we know that you're gonna be going to ball games.

Eric Henley: And taking your family places. So the reason we do this thorough digital vehicle inspection is so that you have a clear picture of what's, I mean, just things like that, very personal details. And some of the things that Michael has talked about recently is that feeling you want to have that feel.

Eric Henley: It's a story rather than you're just bragging about what you can do with each vehicle. Just in the content there, the About Us page, it talks about, you know, these things the vision, mission, values, and and I think we're we're even talking about doing the H Tech way thing that a couple from, I think Idaho mentioned and having that on there too.

Eric Henley: It's just a, it's a more conversational way of communicating with people rather than just those canned content that we do this, we offer this, we do 3 36, all that, all the things that we all use. In our industry. It's weaving all that into it. And I guess I have to, there's so much of it. I forget how many pages we had of this, but each one she asked me a specific question, how do you wanna say that?

Eric Henley: How do you want say So it's, and it'll be different for each owner because they'll want it said different ways. But I would encourage them not just to trust someone just to come up with it. You need to talk to that person, whoever it is, or persons who write your content and make that you what you want.

Eric Henley: Said what your team once said and not just something that's universal to everybody else in the industry. 

Michael Smith: Well, we grew up 

Eric Henley: does that 

Michael Smith: Oh yeah. We grew up as a transactional industry and the leading edge thinking. Up to this point has been, well, what if we talked in committed terms with our customers and we talked about our value proposition and our differentiation in the market, as if that takes it up a notch, which it does, we cross that third line into the meaning.

Michael Smith: That's important to the customer. And now you've gone into this long-term covenant relationship building opportunity where the literally where the loyal brand ambassadors wanna live. And in a way, Eric, it's back to that unique competitive advantage. When you write this into your website, your marketing materials, and we've talked about this, it serves a dual purpose, not just to attract the loyal brand ambassadors, but it also det attracts, or dist attracts, or however you wanna think about it.

Michael Smith: Dissuade it's dissuades, it's less attractive to the transactional customer who opens it up. Where's my coupon? Where's my cheap oil change? Where's my free component on my break job? Or whatever. And then all of a sudden they're like, meaning, mm-hmm There's stuff about meaning in here and life and safety.

Michael Smith: And it's like, I just wanna know how much this thing's gonna cost me. And in a way you dissuade them. The other kind of customer from finding you to be the most attractive in their options too. It starts with dual purpose, which I think is really powerful. So 

Eric Henley: for those, just for those that go to the website to look and see what we've done it's still in process so everything's not up.

Eric Henley: So they'll, we'll work better right now. It's not all rolled out yet, so it's a 

Michael Smith: work in progress there. Everybody. Give 

Kent Bullard: Eric some grace here. Yeah. 

Michael Smith: Give that right 

Eric Henley: it. It's a process. Yeah. I thought you had all in there. Not yet. Not So it's still profit, 

Kent Bullard: Eric, you kinda have to balance because you know, on one hand, yeah, you wanna express the value and the culture and those virtue points and all of that.

Kent Bullard: At the same time, Google has laws and rules and in order to sustain your SEO there's some, it's a delicate process to interweave those things. So, I mean, yeah, it should take time instead of just a. 

Michael Smith: Well, and kudos to your provider too, that number one understands the shift potential for disaster from your provider of services.

Michael Smith: But the second thing is being able to listen and willing to listen and trying to come to understand what are you talking about, right? How would you say this here? How would you say that there we come from a standardized industry, right? Here's your transactional website, but I wanna put meaning in here.

Michael Smith: And it's like, what you wanna do? What? And the fact that your provider of service is listening and working with you and asking in your opinion and thinking it through. And, you know, there's hope here that maybe they'll take some of this wisdom to our other industry peer group too and start to, to have this be new industry standards, which I think you guys are leading in this, right?

Michael Smith: So 

Eric Henley: yeah that's, and then, yeah, I think, I mean, not to beat, but I think we are one of the premier shops in the area. But the the other thing I learned from this, and this is just learning about Google Analytics and some of those things, is that it needs to be that way. Affect your local market. Otherwise you'd, you're like anybody else that's doing the same thing around you.

Eric Henley: So if you're communicating these things across there, people are gonna feel it. They like the Subaru car commercial we talked about most recently. When the dad looks back at the crash car and the kids beside of them and they're safe because Subaru built a great vehicle that kept him from being hurt.

Eric Henley: And he looks back and there's that feeling on his face that you can see like, man, I'm grateful. And so you want them as, as weird for our industry as that sounds. You want them to feel something different about you. You know, they remembered my dog was sick the last time I was in, they remembered that I just lost my dad, or, you know, they were.

Eric Henley: They pull the car up for you and make sure it's warmed up. You know, just different things. So when they leave your shop, they don't leave any other shop that does, here's the key to your car somewhere out there. Have a nice day. Appreciate it. They don't get that. We thank you for being a guest with us.

Eric Henley: Is there anything you don't understand about the repair that I can go more in depth with you? Are there any things that we recommended for the future that you don't understand why you need them? If you don't, if you don't have time now that just call me later if you need to discuss 'em further.

Eric Henley: Maybe they didn't get back with you in time to go over the estimate. You know, just different things like that. It's that's the marketing and we don't do direct mail anymore except to retention, you know, to some of our customers at once a quarter. So, we're not using that for a traction.

Eric Henley: We're using SEO and our, and just basically a better website. To draw people in. And so that's really framing a lot of what we that's our marketing, I guess, is try to answer your question in a real roundabout way. 

Kent Bullard: On a psychological standpoint, how does that communication or that authenticity come through in branding, how does that affect the clients that are looking at the shop?

Michael Smith: You know, the words themselves, we talk about this in the leadership intensive, is less than 10% impact on recollection and the way it sticks in the brain, you had a motion to it. It's 35%. More so the concept is you start talking about feelings. You start talking about safety. You get up into the meaning zone where people are drawing their own pictures in their head about this.

Michael Smith: You're approaching 90, a hundred percent retention impact on the brand of the marketing messaging. So, you know, we go to this transactional thing, here's some words, here's a coupon. It has no meaning to it. It has no emotion to it. It's just a simple transaction. It's not very memorable from a branding standpoint either.

Michael Smith: So the emotion really builds into then the relational component, which gets you close to a hundred percent. And this is the thing, right? In our industry, you wanna be top of mind in any moment. Yes, for maintenance, but also for the break. Something breaks in your car, the what you want them to do is instantly think of your brand and how can I get the car to them?

Michael Smith: Oh, I'm a long way away. I don't care. How much does it cost to get the tow over there, a couple hundred bucks, that's my shop. Drive it over there right now. That's a long way. There's closer shops. I don't care. I'm coming to Eric, I'm coming to hd, whatever. And that's what you're building and that's what this meaning, and that's what this emotion adds to our transactional industry.

Michael Smith: And it makes a big difference. 

Eric Henley: Yeah. One of the things that I'm gonna push for too is that we all have our CRM and those a lot of times are stale and just kind of, you know, businessy, i'm gonna ask for some more customization of that and how we talk to when we send that out, how that is said to the customer.

Eric Henley: I want it said in a way that represents us and not just a canned way that everybody does. A warm breathing. Oh, yeah. We were 30 days out from the last recommended services, you know, and just some things about why and what and and things that we can edit. And they're listening to me.

Eric Henley: They're making a few changes here and there. I think we've got an interview with them next week. It's with you all and us and me and know. I'm not sure who else, but but just to make sure the CRM matches what we want too. And then the old fashioned way, I guess the only other thing I can think of we do the old fashioned way, is handwritten.

Eric Henley: Thank you. Cards. We actually pay a lady to do it, but she gets the repair order, writes about the vehicle, and then puts a h Tech buck in there for dollars off. So that's another way that we do a personal touch an old school way. And we do see those come in a lot. They used to have my picture on it.

Eric Henley: They call 'em Merris bucks. Now I finally took that off. It just has our logo on it. But anyway, that it's, that's another way we do it. 

Kent Bullard: So, so it's safe to say over this journey, your the way you communicate has changed over time. Now, you know, what do you, what's different about your communication practices, both externally with your, you know, the vendors or your customers and internally with yourself and your team?

Kent Bullard: What do you think is different now? 

Eric Henley: I think as far as internally, it's just more depth to it. I mean, I've always been big on the relationship, but I think I'm looking more into act. I would've said that I've not been an active listener as we all in our culture generally like to have the next idea.

Eric Henley: And we're trying to talk over each other. And Zoom's made it hard 'cause there's the lag, and sometimes you can't, it's hard to overcome that. Or to pause. Tommy Nicholson, a guy in the industry he taught me a good lesson one time. We read a book, never split the difference. And he was my composite partner.

Eric Henley: And I noticed that when he was talking to somebody, he would, when they replied, there was a long pause, a long, a awkward pause until he spoke. That taught me a lesson about listening and it helped me, and that I'm gradually learning more things. My wife will say that I'm a much better listener after 30 years than I was early in our life.

Eric Henley: Congratulations, by the way. So personally it helps on the personal side and it just helps them alive. So be an active listener that'll develop your culture a lot. When people feel like they're heard they feel valued outward facing, the same way the way we present. Make sure the customer feels like they're heard, that, that you have listened actively to get as much information from them to make sure you address what they, and then be honest if you didn't, if you lo if you lost it somewhere, maybe we got the wrong noise.

Eric Henley: Yeah. That happens, you know? Okay. I'm sorry, Mrs. Jones. We thought for sure that the strut about the fallout from under your vehicle was the noise, but apparently there's a noise that we didn't understand that you meant, you know. So we'd love for you to come back in. This is our second opportunity to get this right and we'd love to ride with you and to be sure we understand exactly what you're talking about.

Eric Henley: And so we can make this right for you and you might make anyway. 

Kent Bullard: So for, sorry. I was gonna say, so for those who as I interrupt you as we're talking about communication, I apologize. It's 

Eric Henley: okay. Okay. 

Kent Bullard: For those out there who have heard the term active listening and still don't quite understand it, what does something, what does active listening look like in, and I'll open this to both of you guys.

Kent Bullard: What does acting look like in practice? 

Eric Henley: Michael? 

Michael Smith: You want me to go first? I really, 

Eric Henley: really appreciate. 

Michael Smith: Yeah. It's yeah it's a style of communication where you're, I think we talk about in the leadership intensive communication that's one way is perceived by everybody involved as being a lower level of affect than communication is perceived as being two-way.

Michael Smith: So from the standpoint that this quiet time, this silence, this moment, number one, people who have a lot to say and haven't finished yet, you give 'em a little extra silence and they'll jam a little more in the gap and then they'll jam a little more in the gap. And you let that go a little bit and you'll learn more than you learned before.

Michael Smith: But it's that being able to pause and actually listen and have real communication. The root we talked about is the of communication is union. The word is union. So you're making a union between two people and coming to an understanding and active listening is just positioning yourself. Not you know, here's us, right?

Michael Smith: We come from a position of sharing lots of industry wisdom with our clients, and we have fun sharing it. It'd be really easy to sit back and just spill wisdom all over everybody that comes from the general field, from outside of this industry, et cetera, and not listen to a thing our clients say and what really matters is what's happening in their life and how it comes home.

Michael Smith: And so having that relationship of a real genuine, it's almost a friendship. Of caring and listening and understanding and under getting into the mind of the person that you're talking to and letting them share what's important to them. And again, they have their needs. They'll walk up and go, I need you to do this.

Michael Smith: And what you talked about very effectively earlier, we then try to get into the wants. It's like, well, let's talk about what you want for this vehicle. Lead you into that stewardship relationship, lead you into that real genuine two-way flow. And when you do that, then the communication, you slow it down.

Michael Smith: You ask a lot of questions. You listen. You don't have automatic answers. You come to conclusions together. When you do both sides buy into it. It's just a different way of, it's a win-win in the end, right? Not a you win and they may lose, but as long as you get your a RO and your credit card, you know, check out of it you're good.

Michael Smith: This model is very much of a two-way flow and a win-win that they walk away and they go, I like that place. They listened to me. They cared about me. They did, we, they helped me figure this out. And that's a big thing in our industry too, and I'll stop talking at this point, but there's a lot of mystery about, you know, lift the hood and look underneath it.

Michael Smith: Most of us, me included, I couldn't begin to tell you what's under there. I wouldn't even lift it. I'd bring it to you. And so that idea that I don't know what I don't know. And so I, if you'll be patient with me and you'll ask me questions and you'll walk me through what you're seeing and explain to me what's happening.

Michael Smith: I don't need to know how to repair an engine, but it really makes me feel good that you would give that grace to me and give me that time. And it makes me trust you and it makes me want to come back and work with you. My second biggest investment that you talked about, which is absolutely right, we all know people walk in and they wanna spend the least amount of money they can to keep that depreciating asset rolling.

Michael Smith: That's what is in the back of people's minds. So they walk in and the older the car gets, the more the repair potential looks like. And it's like that's not a place that most people wanna be in that moment. And so how do we bridge that gap? And what you're talking about is. Being with them, stewarding it with them, thinking through it with them, you sharing openly.

Michael Smith: They trust you. They ask your advice. They're not feeling guarded. They, you know, okay, go ahead and do that. Should I wait? I wouldn't if I were you. But we can, here's my thought. Okay, go ahead and do it right. And even if it's a stretch at that point, it's a win-win, trust based, long-term, loyal brand ambassador building relationship.

Michael Smith: And that you can't get there if you don't have two-way active listening communication. You just can't get there. You'll never get there. 

Eric Henley: One of the things I would say, just a practical application we've learned, and this is through through the never split, the difference is the mirror. So if you don't understand the person, what they've described to you, use the last three words, three to five words of what they said, an upward inflection and then listen.

Eric Henley: 'cause they'll bring out more. And then when you're done, just to make sure you understood, you do the label, you label what they said. Okay, Mrs. Jones sounds like, seems like this is what you're describing. Is that correct? And if she says That's right, then you know you've got it. If not, she, people love to correct and they will correct you and say, no, actually it means this.

Eric Henley: And then the only other thing I would add is the mirror can also be used to diffuse a situation. If you use a more of a downward deflection instead of going up, if they go high. And, you know, say you've got someone who's becoming all right and they don't feel like you're hearing them, just use the mirror in a downward tone very calmly, and then listen and pause.

Eric Henley: Use the pregnant, pause and listen. So there, there's some things we've learned about just very practical ways to communicate with people. 

Kent Bullard: I love that. You know, throughout this morning we've talked about developing, high performing team, how we're hiring the myriad of benefits of all these things.

Kent Bullard: I'd love to take a different approach here and ask, you know, what are some of the challenges that you've faced in creating this culture of continuous improvement and how have you overcome them? 

Eric Henley: So that's, so if you come from a very critical say a critical raring of your parents, maybe had a father or a mother that was always finding something like, okay, so you're never satisfied with it.

Eric Henley: And so some people might have that baggage. I offer, one can say that I came up that way with my dad. He was a very dominant and he would, even though I love my dad, he had his. Little things, 

Kent Bullard: Eric, I think we have a lot in common. 

Eric Henley: Yes. 

Michael Smith: All delivered because they wanted you to grow up quickly and efficiently and help you.

Michael Smith: Right? So I'm gonna criticize you right. To excellence, right? 

Eric Henley: They're very similar things about, and I could appreciate that too, but not, I'm not downing you, Cecil, I promise. But the so the thing you'd have to overcome is that, okay, we can always get better and that has to be okay. We can always improve.

Eric Henley: It's not, I'm cri criticizing you to show you where you're wrong and you didn't do as well. The tone is that I just like, I want to improve myself. I am not where I need to be. I want you to improve as well and become a better person, better, better husband to your wife, better leader in your community and your church, or whatever it is you do outside of here.

Eric Henley: Not just within here. This makes you a whole person better. So I wanna encourage you to grow and always look for ways to improve and don't think of it as a negative. It's not. So I guess just thinking off the top of my head, that's the way I would communicate across continuous improvement.

Kent Bullard: I, I mean, you said that so succinctly and so perfectly.

Kent Bullard: I love that answer. You have to be comfortable. You have to be okay with, we can always be better. And I can see that, you know, e even in my own personal journey of like, man, I'm not done yet. I thought I was done. I want to be done. And it hurts to go through that process of admitting, yeah, I probably have some things to learn and it's painful, but I mean, it's a practice, you know?

Kent Bullard: You said that perfectly. This is a great answer. I love that. 

Eric Henley: Yeah. I probably borrowed it from somebody, but.

Eric Henley: We all don't we all? There's nothing, 

Michael Smith: nothing new under the sun. I heard. 

Eric Henley: Right. There you go. So it's all 

Michael Smith: that's 

Kent Bullard: come around somewhere before. So, so Eric, do you have a, do you have a special person or a specific person whose personal growth journey has been particularly meaningful to you? 

Eric Henley: Oh gosh. Yeah.

Eric Henley: My son I guess some of the motivation for all of this is that I'm gonna tee it off for him to have the best experience growing himself. And he desires to succeed me in this. So he doesn't face some of the things I just kind of cobbled my way through. So I've watched him like I said, he's become a self to the point where I've had to say, listen, son I want you to stop at eight o'clock and talk to your wife and his wife, Alyssa.

Eric Henley: Alyssa. And I've said, and her presence, she says, yes, Seth. Stop reading so much. So, he's got his little study now. I actually helped him carry a desk that Lisa's dad made for him is a handmade desk. Carried it up several flights of stairs to their condominium. And he is got his own little study in their spare bedroom now.

Eric Henley: And he is budgeting. He, his time, he's journaling. And he was my messy son that wouldn't keep his clothes off the floor and his bed made. And he was, when he was at home, he was the mess. But now he's this organized kid. His desk is organized at the shop. His, all of his Ros are organized.

Eric Henley: It's just watching him develop is, has probably been, you know, it is your son. So, I mean, there's always that, you know, you can't not, when you see your son doing something, well, you won't be proud of him. But just I just know this is gonna be something going forward that will make him, he will not have to go through all these struggles.

Eric Henley: And maybe, I mean, he'll probably make a few band of hires. Somebody will slip through the cracks. There may be a desperate moment, but he'll know what to look for and he'll know how to handle it and work his way out of it, or through it or over it. And then watching my I te my one, my newest technician, Cole, I just mentioned him by name.

Eric Henley: Not that my other one, Dakota's not growing in that. But Cole's desire to improve himself. He and Seth are having deep conversations of the Theo Theological things, biblical things. They're having interpersonal relationships. And Cole and I will have those at times too when I make my stroll through the shop.

Eric Henley: Just to talk to the guys. I say What's going on with you, and he'll tell me a struggle he is having and we'll personally and we'll. We talk these things through. So seeing that change in him is rewarding. For me, I think it's more rewarding to see somebody improve themselves than it is to have a good sales month or a good, you know, build hours, whatever.

Eric Henley: If I see a difference in the person that's a celebration to 

Michael Smith: have. Yeah. You know, you know, the science says that we're all wired to grow. To find meaning in life. And that's the most satisfying life. And you're facilitating that. Your son, your technician, you're making a pathway for them and a culture and an encouragement for them to grow and to grow fearlessly and tackle lots of things very, as I always talk about Da Vinci style, right?

Michael Smith: Master something until you're satisfied and pick up something completely different and master that too. And at the end of it, you're a master of mastery, right? Which is a phenomenal gift to give that you're giving legacy wise. So, yep. 

Eric Henley: Sorry. 

Michael Smith: No, go ahead. Yeah, 

Eric Henley: it's the infectious thing too. You see it starting to spread across the front and the relationships he is got with the other two guys.

Eric Henley: And one of 'em is, I mean, I've got the, Matt's my service manager. I didn't wanna put my son in a position of leadership just because he is Aze boy, you know? So he has got somebody over him and they're all infecting each other in positive ways and affecting technicians in the back, in the way they deal with 'em.

Eric Henley: So this type of. Culture is it sort of goes out into the shop and those that don't wanna be involved with it will get uncomfortable with it. And those that do those get even better.

Kent Bullard: I think being a high performer or being in a high performance culture is all about living in the space of mentorship, both being a mentor to someone and also seeking mentorship for whatever your pursuit looks like.

Kent Bullard: So living in both spaces is where you kind of get in the flow of development, of mastery. Your focus on human development how has that changed you as a leader?

Eric Henley: Good question. It's given me confidence in, i'm equipping my people, which has given me freedom to do other things that I wanna do to help others. It's given the opportunity to serve in my church in the capacity I haven't been able to. It's given me opportunities to do work in the community that I would've been, had it have been a ic type of environment at the shop then I wouldn't have had that freedom.

Eric Henley: And so now I can do a lot of things that I otherwise couldn't. It has made it a little uncomfortable adjusting to not being needed. And so, so for those that not are not at that point yet, you almost feel guilty for not being there. But they actually do better and they'll ask you, what are you doing here today?

Eric Henley: You know, you were just here yesterday. We don't need you. Here, 

Kent Bullard: go home. 

Michael Smith: Let us do it ourselves. Really? Oh, can I help somehow? No, we're fine. Really? Is there nothing I can 

Kent Bullard: do? I think, not to interrupt, but I think when you're at a point where your team is telling you, Hey, it's okay, we don't need you.

Kent Bullard: That's them. Admit, that's them almost saying, I want to prove to you that you've done a good job in stewarding me. I wanna show you that your investment in me, I isn't fruitless. 

Eric Henley: Yep. For a technician will something, 'cause I'm a technician, you know, I've been one, been in the trade 30, 80 years. Hard to believe.

Eric Henley: But the technician will come to me sometimes when I'm making a stroll through the shop, and he'll ask me about a particular problem he is having with one. And I'm like, what's going on with it? And then again, I'll do the same thing. Well, what do you think? And he'll tell me and. Most of the time, I'm like, you know, you'll just I can see how something went wrong here, but you're a great technician.

Eric Henley: Something just unfortunate happened has happened to me many times. When you can relate to them in that way that you're in a place I mean, I've been in your shoes and I made it through it, and so will you, 'cause you are a good technician. You'll overcome this. Don't beat yourself down.

Eric Henley: Mistake is a good way to learn something to move on to something better the next time. So, it's just a, it's, it frees them, frees you, and tell you personal relationships too. I mean, like I told you, 30 years married to the same lady. She knows all the little faults I've had through the past and and she can see improvement.

Eric Henley: It's commented on those things that actually listen to her now. And and that value her her opinion about things where normally I would've said, I've got this figured out now I'm gonna do that. And you know, me, I'm not a dominant type, I'm not a real domineering type person. That's not my personality.

Eric Henley: But I still have those things where I like, okay, I've got my opinion about it, and that's it. And nobody else is right. I've learned that there are other people that are right. And I, and I can have a, I can have relationships with somebody. I either, either whatever their church is or whatever their politics are.

Eric Henley: I can have a relationship with people. Now I will say that's another area I've learned that I can actually talk to people I don't necessarily agree with on a particular subject and still have a relationship with 'em. We don't have to agree on everything to lock each other and spend time together.

Eric Henley: So it, it'll help you in that sense too. 

Michael Smith: Society needs more of that nowadays. So it's like 

Kent Bullard: what a novel concept. 

Michael Smith: Yeah. What an idea. Right. You have a different way of thinking. And I can still be your friend, 

Eric Henley: huh? 

Michael Smith: It's okay. It's okay. 

Kent Bullard: So Eric what advice would you give to the leaders out there who are listening to this, that are aiming to create a workplace that prioritizes growth, that, you know, invests in the wellbeing of their people and is pushing for high performance?

Kent Bullard: What would you tell them? 

Eric Henley: Yeah, so you're gonna need accountability and you're gonna need somebody push you along. 'cause we don't want change some comfortable even if you've got, say your numbers are great and you're pushing production to the shop and your sales are great and your culture stinks, it's awful.

Eric Henley: If you don't have other peers around you and frequently around you. Or a phone call away, you won't change. So making the investment into this group, the high performance group, well, for that matter, that you all aspects of what you guys offer will move you in a direction that will make you better.

Eric Henley: And you wouldn't, you would not believe the change. You will look back, like I said, it was a blur. You will look back and think, well, wow, that's a long way from where I was at, and I didn't realize where I was at. That you've got, now you've got a place to measure from, and then you see what changes it's made in you.

Eric Henley: So I would encourage you to get involved in this group. And it'll be well worthwhile, your time and your, and whatever it costs you to be involved in it and your organization and your business will be better for it and your life for that matter. So I'm just that, I guess that. Is that concise enough?

Eric Henley: Does that make sense? 

Kent Bullard: I find it interesting that we are both reluctant to change. Change is painful, but at the same time, humans are wired to change and grow and develop. You know, from a psychological standpoint we're, we seek that, that development, that growth. 

Michael Smith: We're happier when we do, 

Kent Bullard: right.

Michael Smith: When we cut loose and just let ourselves do that. We find more satisfaction in life than when we don't. 

Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Life is short, 

Michael Smith: but it's risky. It's risky because you might realize you don't know something you thought you did or you might change your mind. It's like uhoh, 

Kent Bullard: it's like, I'm quite comfortable with my world.

Michael Smith: I like now I like being broken and I'm fine. Don't stir me up. Right. Don't disturb me. 

Kent Bullard: I got one final question to ask as we wrap up. This has been such a wonderful morning, Eric. Thank you so much for being here and walking us through your experience and your time. I've got one final question for you.

Kent Bullard: What legacy do you hope your focus on human development will leave within your organization and your community? 

Eric Henley: Yeah, that's, and it's personal too because I have a son who's in it, you know, as I mentioned before. So one of our things in the, I think it's in our vision, it's probably interlacing some of the other ones right now, just trying to think through, but that we want to redeem the negative opinion that people have about our industry.

Eric Henley: We want it to be one that, okay, these people are different and this is why they're different. And we want our guys to and our ladies for that matter to think about that in terms of the way they do their job every day when they come in. You're moving the needle away from what we've been painted as unethical.

Eric Henley: Can't be trusted industry to someone who sets the standard for that, that we wanna be though that shining beacon, I guess, that people look at and like, that's different there. And so I want, as Seth decides to develop and as you know, even if our. Even if the team that we have now moves on to something else, I want them to be to look back at what they've learned with us and and make a difference in the world.

Eric Henley: Whatever way they are occupied with at that time. You know, whether it's in their families, whether they go to a different, say they go to financial investing we want 'em to be the best they can be in that. And they can and they can maybe look back, not for us to beat our chest, but hey, if I haven't worked for them and learned these things culturally of how they interact with people and what's really important in life then I would not be as successful at what I'm doing now.

Eric Henley: So, whether they stay with us or not, we make a, we're making an investment in people's lives. We're gonna change the industry we're in, but we're gonna try to change the world too in the way we live out. Or with people around us, what they see in us. So 

Michael Smith: can I just grab a piece of what you said? A legacy of raising up legacy levers.

Michael Smith: It's a multiplication model, right? It's not just your legacy. You're raising up people who know how to leave legacies to go leave their legacies, which will ultimately raise up legacy levers, which I, it is just, it's a profound thing you're working on. Thank you for sharing that. That's really powerful.

Michael Smith: Really powerful. 

Eric Henley: It's still in process. 

Michael Smith: The website's not quite done yet. Right? So 

Kent Bullard: You mentioned redeeming the image of the industry. I always go back. I've underlined encircled redemption a few times throughout this conversation. I think it's just such a beautiful sentiment.

Kent Bullard: Eric, thank you so much for being here. Listeners, if you have any questions or comments about what we covered today, please comment down in the comment section below. Eric Henley, h Tech Auto Care outta Tennessee. Thank you so much for your time today. This has been such a treat. 

Michael Smith: Yeah, it's a pleasure to know you

Eric Henley: to visit with you guys.

Michael Smith: It's a pleasure to know you too, my friend. 

Eric Henley: Likewise. I'll see you soon. 

Michael Smith: Yes you'll, 

Kent Bullard: those of you who want more information about what we do at the institute, you can find more info at. We are the institute.com. Thank you for listening.

JR and Sarah LaFlamme share how running a four bay shop with too few hands pushed them to seek coaching and build structure instead of burnout. They walk through the turning points that changed everything including adopting digital vehicle inspections building a real parts and pricing strategy and hiring the right roles in the right order. The conversation highlights how community driven hiring and culture shaped their team and how letting go of emotional pricing protected their value. Parker Branch adds perspective from his own shop journey and explains why coaching accelerates clarity and confidence. The episode ends with practical encouragement for owners who feel too busy or unsure to invest in help.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Parker Branch, Industry Coach 

Guest(s):

Sarah & JR LaFlamme, Owners of LaFlamme's Auto & Truck Services

Show Highlights:

[00:08:45] – Their breaking point came when the team dropped to just the two of them

👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/onJEq3WCoTA

Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!

Links & Resources: 

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or good night, depending on when and where you're watching this from. It is a beautiful day outside, no matter where you are. Go outside, breathe some air, stand in some grass. Get grounded. We, and that is what we're gonna do here today. I am so excited for this conversation we're gonna have here today with our guests.

Jimmy Lea: It's going to be amazing. And this is to be an interactive webinar. So those of you who are joining us, we are live on Streamy Yard, we're live on YouTube, we're live on Facebook. Go down into that comment section and comment where it is that you're joining us from today. Love to give a shout out to your shop, to you.

Jimmy Lea: Put in your shop names, city, state, wherever it is that you are joining us from. Would love to give you that shout out because you are here. You're here for the live event, which means you can see all the mistakes, all the mishaps, all of the. Live stuff that happens in a live production. We are here for the live and it, this is so much fun.

Jimmy Lea: I love being here with you, my friend. Love having this conversation. Love having this opportunity to document who and what we are, what makes us awesome and amazing. What helps us to build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. Love that we're all here together. Alright, let's give some shout outs.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, first off to Brad Edwards joining from Plainview, Texas. Brad, thank you for being here. What's the name of your shop? Brad Edwards. Uh, we got Jay McCall. Good morning Forest went good morning. Yes, good morning to all of you. Angie. Deep Creek Auto in ell, Idaho. Did I say that right? Angie? Deep Creek Auto.

Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. ELL, Idaho. My parents have a house in, uh, Idaho Falls. Are you close? Is Buell close? Matt's Import Haven, Whidby Island, Washington. Welcome, Matt. Glad you're here. Jay, with j and v, automobile, Alabama. Jay, how the heck are you, brother? Gotta get down to get some good food from Alabama. Again. My parents also own a home in Pensacola, Florida.

Jimmy Lea: So when we go to visit mom and dad, Jay, I'm gonna have to swing by and say hello. Brad Edwards. Uh, TE Texas. Texas Edwards Auto Service, Rish. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. R oh Rish, you're new with the institute. W what's your shop? Put in your shop here so we can say Hello. Rish. Glad you're here. Dante.

Jimmy Lea: Merv in Walnut Creek, California. Dante. Welcome. Glad you're here, Angie. Yes, I did say it right. Oh, cool. Thank you. Uh, Clint Jones, Concord New New Hampshire met you before events. Long time Kui customer. Clint. Glad you're here, Clint. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you being here. Angie, McCabe, about three hours away.

Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, that's, that's a little far. Okay. When I go visit mom and dad, we'll have to make a special trip. Kent Bullard. Hey, Jimmy. Hey Kent. How are you? Thanks for tuning in. Kent's in our headquarters in Ogden, Utah, the international headquarters for the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. Ogden, Utah.

Jimmy Lea: Rish is with Meno. Autoworks in Mississauga, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. Oh, Rish. I think I've been through there. Uh, I drove up there one time. I went into, uh, Toronto and drove all the way up to Blue Chip. Casino. That was awesome. That was so much fun. Uh, Clint accomplished auto also new with the institute.

Jimmy Lea: Welcome, Clint. Glad you guys are here. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody that's here for this live event. And, and to that comes our guest, our guest here to with us today. Thank you. Uh oh. And Cecil Buller joining from the Institute International Headquarters in Ogden, Utah. Thank you Cecil for being here, brother.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, that's awesome. To our guests joining us today, a facilitator, a coach, a one-on-one phenomenon, a member of the single club, the $1 million Net Club. Parker Branch. Parker, with Parker Auto, Parker Branch, branch Automotive, and Truck. Parker, how are you, brother?

Parker Branch: Doing good. Joining you from Branch Automotive and also representing the institute.

Parker Branch: Thanks for the intro, Jimmy.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, you're welcome. Throw up his, uh, branch Parker Branch, branch Automotive in Highland Ranch, Colorado. I've had the distinct opportunity of spending some time with Parker and his wife at his home. There was one summer that we went up there for a National Speakers Association conference, and Parker was very kind.

Jimmy Lea: Thank you Parker, for extending the, uh, invitation to come and stay with you and your, uh, your family there. That what a beautiful home you have. Thank you.

Parker Branch: Thank you. It was fun having you and Rhonda down at the place.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. How's the shop doing now that we're into 2026?

Parker Branch: We're, we're doing well, we're, we're starting off the year pretty good.

Parker Branch: Um, excited about January. Taking some direction finally. I know we've all in the industry have noticed last year was a little flatter than a lot of people wanted, but um, still moving in the right direction. Had some positive growth and a good start to the year.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. And congrats on your accomplishments with what you've done there with your shop and, and being the recipient, the one and only single recipient of the $1 million Net Club.

Jimmy Lea: Congrats brother.

Parker Branch: Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. We're gonna try to do it again and again.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. Please do. Keep doing it and, and, and spread that, spread that mindset, spread that desire to others. Uh, we, we just, just honored to have you as a coach and one of your proteges as, uh, Josh was saying the other day.

Jimmy Lea: He's gonna tune in to hear about your Prodigy with Sarah and JR La Flame with the Flame Auto out of, uh. You guys are in Massachusetts?

Parker Branch: Yep. They're LA Lambs. They're, they're rock stars. They've, they've been great.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, they, wow. And

Parker Branch: Hi everyone.

Jimmy Lea: Hey. How are you? There you are. Sarah and jr. Oh,

Jr LaFlamme: thanks for having us.

Sarah LaFlamme: We are in Massachusetts. We are in Westfield, Massachusetts, which is on the other side of the state from Boston. So most people just assume Boston, but we're not near there.

Jimmy Lea: You're not from Boston, so we can't expect the Boston accent then at all.

Sarah LaFlamme: I mean, we can fake it. We could

Jr LaFlamme: try that.

Jimmy Lea: We all have to fake it.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, forget about it. Well, that, that's cool. You guys had some pretty good weather here just recently.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yes. We got into the forties. Yeah. Which is like a heat's steady, that's a heat wave in January and New England. So it's been, it's been nice. Went out with just a sweatshirt and a t-shirt yesterday.

Jimmy Lea: I, I had a very humbling experience, so I've just recently moved from the desert to the cold weather.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, I'm a desert rat. I admit it. I fully admit it. I get cold easily. I don't like being cold. I was walking into Costco in my stocking cap and jacket and walking out of Costco was a gentleman in a tank top and shorts.

Sarah LaFlamme: Was it 35 degrees that day?

Jimmy Lea: It was.

Sarah LaFlamme: We would do that too.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. We have people out here that shovel snow in shorts.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Uh, Wayne, Wayne Marshall talks about all the time he's out in his flip flops, shoveling snow in shorts and a tank top. And it just gets the job done, you know?

Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Well, the LA Flames, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. I've got so many questions for you. Did a deep dive into your notes. Thank you, Parker, for taking copious notes as your coaching with JR. And Sarah, this is awesome. Uh, I, I want to kick this off by asking a question about coaching and training.

Jimmy Lea: What is it, well, when you first started with coaching with Parker, what was the pain that finally pushed you to say, yes, we need help? And, and that's probably before Parker, that's probably going back to when, uh, uh, one of my guys reached out to you from the institute. What was that pain point that said, Ooh, yeah, you know what, we need some help.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So the, the pain for us, I think, started well in advance of us reaching out to the institute. Um. We were in, I think our second full year. And, um, we had, um, an employee who had to take a leave. So when we went from three of us to just us, that was it. So he became the main technician. I was, became the main service advisor and doing everything else that you need to do to run a business.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and so, and we were, it was okay for a little bit and we were trekking through and we were like, we can do this. Yeah. And then, um, we started getting a little bit busier and we started seeing the cracks. There were, you know, we were, you know, not hitting deadlines with cars. I, I was missing deadlines on administrative things.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and I was like, we just can't keep running around like chickens with our heads cut off.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. I mean, I was working 70, 80 hours a week, like nonstop and it was pretty much burning me out.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah.

Jr LaFlamme: Being the only tech and so on and so forth. So.

Sarah LaFlamme: We were taking our work home with us. We are married. Um, so we were working 24 hours a day essentially, because we would leave here, go home, we'd be with our kids, but we'd be talking about work because there's just not enough.

Sarah LaFlamme: There wasn't enough time in the day 'cause we were trying to wear every hat. Um, so when we realized that the kids were, you know, and our home life was suffering, we said enough, we can't do this anymore. Um, and we actually ran into the institute's name by, um, joining a webinar kind of like this. Um, but it was about parts matrix and parts markup.

Sarah LaFlamme: And Cecil actually had done that. He partnered with Parts Tech and it was an such an eye-opening webinar. We learned so much. 'cause before that we just had no idea how to properly price our parts. We were just from the seat of flying from the seat of our pants. So, um. That was such an eyeopening thing and I gained so much confidence based on what he said, that that's why I decided to reach out to the institute when we finally said, okay, this is enough.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And then I believe it's Kent. Um, I saw a webinar that he did about pretty much giving yourself some freedom and, and getting to a certain point. And that's when we had a conversation saying, Hey, you know, maybe it's time to look into this option, you know? Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And Cecil is listening.

Jimmy Lea: So big shout out to Cecil. Thank you so much. And the parts markup matrix webinar, that, that is a webinar that just keeps on giving and giving and giving. It's, we partnered with tech, parts Tech, wonderful partnership. Just to let you know on numbers, there were like 1200 people that registered. 900 showed up the day of the event.

Jimmy Lea: It's the most we've ever had in a webinar with the institute. The questions were coming through so fast and furious that it was quite literally overwhelming to be on the production side of trying to answer all these questions. Cecil did a phenomenal job, consummate professional. Thank you, Cecil.

Jimmy Lea: Appreciate that. Shout out to you.

Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: So into those problems, here you are, you've discovered it. You have, 'cause you guys have four bays, right? You've got the building with three and then the, the outbuilding with the fourth.

Jr LaFlamme: Yes, that's correct.

Jimmy Lea: Are you saying Jr that you were the tech, you were, you were covering all four bays.

Jr LaFlamme: That's correct. That's what was going on. I had, he's the

Sarah LaFlamme: master.

Jr LaFlamme: I was running three bays here and I set up some, a whole stool set up on the other side. Yeah. And nonstop. Sarah was doing service advising and invoicing and estimates why I'm full throttle out here and it just, I'm helping her in between, like with quoting and stuff.

Jr LaFlamme: And that's, and that's pretty much why we're here. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: So I, you know, I, I, I hear it. And, and you know, we, we, in the automotive industry, we know how to work, we know how to work hard. And you've proven this, you can do the 70, 80 hours. Do you want to? No. But can you Yes. Parker, you are coaching them. I, it had to be like, one of the first things you said was, Hey, we need to hire some techs.

Parker Branch: Yeah. When, when, uh, when I got together with them, they had, um, they had rehired, I think Chris, and, and they had, uh, Tyler. Helping out in the shop as well. And he was able to help get some of the repairs and stuff done. JR was still staying out in front with diagnosis and, and keeping the operation running.

Parker Branch: Sarah was still running the front and it, it was fun to work with him and 'cause so many of us technicians or you know, technician and wife turn business owner decide we're gonna go out and do this on our own. Um, you know, I came through the same channels they did, I had the great idea that I'm gonna go start a shop and it's gonna be me and I'll have the phone in my pocket and the wrench in my hand and I'm gonna do it all.

Jr LaFlamme: Yep.

Parker Branch: And you know, trial and error help. You know, Cecil had a big impact on helping me understand structure and you know, when to add what position, which can be terrifying. Um, but I know, you know, Sarah and JR are go-getters and so. We would talk about some of these changes. Adding, you know, adding a service advisor.

Parker Branch: I, I would love to hear what fears and feelings they had about that. And I just to share with everybody I've heard it. Um, but it's a scary thing. And the difference and the change and the business by adding that position was un you know, was awesome. And then later on we were able to actually add a technician to take some of the pressure off of JR.

Parker Branch: And change some of their roles. So I, I'd love to hear some of, you know, how they felt about that and, and turn it over to you Jimmy, to, to, you know, elicit some of, or, you know, pull some of that out. 'cause it's, it's great help for everybody to hear that, you know, we all come through the same channels.

Jimmy Lea: We we do.

Jimmy Lea: And it's interesting. So similar, the two stories of technicians turned, shop owners, you guys both have the same story I, at which I love. I absolutely love that. And, and interviewing. Is my nemesis, that's my kryptonite, JR. Sarah, you've gotta interview, you've gotta bring in another tech. What do you do? How do you find the right butt to put in the right seat on the bus?

Sarah LaFlamme: So for technicians, you know, we, we tried the traditional ways we, you know, put up an ad online. Um, I even went as far as to put an ad in our local newspaper. Come to find out, nobody reads it anymore. Um,

Jr LaFlamme: whoa. Shucker.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. It was worth a shot. I was, I was, I was drawn at straws. So, um, so we tried the traditional, um, methods first and then, um.

Sarah LaFlamme: We, we got lucky with, um, Tyler. We actually got him through one of our tool skies that came through. He actually recommended him to us, so we got lucky with him. And then, um, and then we've had, we've put other ads out In the meantime, we actually have used, um, a hiring company that Parker recommended to us, which is amazing.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and, um, and we, that's worked out well. Um, but we've actually seen a lot of ex, a lot of. The best, um, progress with getting technicians, word of mouth through people. So we're very, we're kind of in a small community. We're very community driven. We live in the town that our business is in. Yeah. So everything we do, um, how we market everything, how we live, how the culture of our business is run is based on community.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, so that's kind of how we got our last tech, Steve, which is our, he's a master tech. So, um, we actually just being known in the community, happened to be walking in to drop my daughter off at daycare. And one of the employees is like, my husband needs to come work for you. And so, yeah. Amazing. So, oh,

Jimmy Lea: that's awesome.

Sarah LaFlamme: You just never, you would kind of never know where they're gonna come from. I remember, uh, Parker kind of saying one time that it's really, it feels really hard right now, but you're gonna build your shop up to a point where people are going to be willing to come

Jimmy Lea: to

Sarah LaFlamme: you, to come to you. And so that moment when that, that woman said, oh my husband's, he can fix anything, he is a great technician.

Sarah LaFlamme: He, he want him to come work for you, you're in town. Yep. And I was like, this is it. Parker said this would happen.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. She said, I, I saw your ad. I think it was on our website or something at

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah.

Jr LaFlamme: At the time. And she's like, Hey, my husband's been doing this for years. What are you looking for? And we pretty much said, Hey, we're looking for a master tech to alleviate JR a little bit.

Jr LaFlamme: And

Sarah LaFlamme: yeah,

Jr LaFlamme: he came on board and he is been with us since. So

Sarah LaFlamme: yeah. So that was, yeah.

Parker Branch: Yeah. You guys are doing the right things and, and you know, treating people right. Internal customers, external customers doing good work. And that creates attraction to your business. And that's. That's kind of, you know, we talk about that at the institute by, you know, raising everything up and doing such a good job.

Parker Branch: Eventually people, they start realizing that good things are happening at La Flas and we want to be there. And that's part of that attraction that, you know, that's a real compliment to, to what you all have done.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Thank you.

Jr LaFlamme: Thank you. Yeah. And I will say, like, his wife stopped us recently and she did make comments to me and Sarah saying.

Jr LaFlamme: I'm so glad my husband made the move to go to you guys. He's very happy. I haven't seen him this happy in years.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah,

Jr LaFlamme: so that's a good compliment all the way around.

Sarah LaFlamme: So I make sure to let,

Jr LaFlamme: thank you.

Sarah LaFlamme: I make sure to let him know when I see his wife.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that is awesome.

Sarah LaFlamme: Your wife said you're so happy here.

Jimmy Lea: Yes, yes, yes. Let me remind you, Steve. Yeah. And Steve is ZZ top right? He's,

Sarah LaFlamme: yeah. No long hair.

Jimmy Lea: He is ZZ top. Tyler. Looks like he just stepped off the high school graduation school.

Sarah LaFlamme: He

Jimmy Lea: kind, but he's not.

Jr LaFlamme: Nope.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How did you find Tyler?

Sarah LaFlamme: That Tyler was through, um, our Snap-on dealer.

Jimmy Lea: The Snap-on dealer. Okay.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: And then you, you said you also hired somebody through, was it through Sarah Fraser?

Sarah LaFlamme: Yes, we did hire technician through Sarah. And that experience was great through um, AIM and um, that technician in the end didn't work out. We had them on for about five minute, five months. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, which was really disappointing for us 'cause they fit our culture so well.

Sarah LaFlamme: And that's so important to us because Absolutely. We're in very tight quarters and we're here so much that it's like. Almost like being at home. So we wanna make sure everyone jives. Uh, so unfortunately that one didn't work out, but, um, we've got, you know, Sarah always on speed dial for all of our needs now.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. I'm glad you clarified that. It was longer than five minutes.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, sorry.

Parker Branch: I think that was, um, I think that was really a good experience too, because, you know, one of the things that we learned, you know, as I was coaching JR and Sarah, we talked a little bit about EOS. No, we didn't wanna make the whole business into an EOS system, but we talked about, you know, finding the right people and having them fit the culture.

Parker Branch: And so it was a good try with that individual. And in the end we just, we realized it was okay, but it really wasn't great. And when they let go of, okay, that made room for great to show up. Um, so it was a good lesson. Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: absolutely.

Jr LaFlamme: Oh, absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: Hallelujah. Yeah, we learned that in the leadership intensive classes with the institute, that when you're looking for a unicorn, you've got to look where the unicorns are.

Jimmy Lea: You don't go to the middle of the valley, you go where the unicorns are. And, uh, if you've got a shop full of mule deer, that's not unicorns. What, uh, speaking to culture, speaking to, uh, your shop, I have an implementation question. What is, I'm gonna call it the single best. Um, and, and it could be more than one, but what's the single best thing you've implemented from coaching and training with Parker that created that immediate traction in your shop?

Sarah LaFlamme: So I would say it was the dvs doing the digital vehicle inspections. That was, um, such a big game changer. We were really hesitant about doing it. Prior to that. We thought, ah, it's gonna take extra time. It's, that's not really billable time. Um, are people gonna think we're just shady salespeople because we're telling 'em what's wrong with their car?

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and then Parker just really, you know, gave us the whole story. Like, you know, it's not just about selling, it's about people seeing what's going on with their, their vehicle. The whole health Yeah. Of their health report or their vehicle. And when he put it like that, I thought, yeah, like if I go to the doctor, I want them to give me the whole health report.

Sarah LaFlamme: I don't want them to just give me this one fix. I want everything. You know? Right. So that way people can make informed decisions, which is literally what, like my mantra is now is always we give this so you can make an informed decision. We want everyone to. Make that informed decision. We don't want somebody to pay to replace their transmission when, when their engine's already, we already know their engine's not good.

Jr LaFlamme: Or if their frame's about to fall out and say, Hey, well I just did a brake job, but your frame's about to fall out. Hey, here you go. Anyways,

Sarah LaFlamme: yeah, we're in the rust belt. So we're, you know, um, frames rusting out is very common. So that was probably the biggest thing was doing, was actually implementing it and, and putting it on every single job and making sure that we, um, are very thorough.

Sarah LaFlamme: And that was a lot of training with our technicians to make sure that they were going through and thoroughly and doing this inspection. Um, 'cause you can, you can have 'em just look at it, but if they don't, if they're missing things, you're not giving the customer the full picture for them to make the right decisions.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. So, yeah. And, and working with Parker, we, uh. Came up with like kind of a little game I would say for DVI to make sure all technicians and stuff are doing the DS properly and

Sarah LaFlamme: DVI rodeo. Yep.

Jr LaFlamme: DVI rodeo,

Parker Branch: 300% percent

Sarah LaFlamme: and the hundred percent rule. So that was gonna say, yeah, so with that, with that D vs came the 300% rule, which was, you know, 100% of cars get a DVI 100% of cars.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um.

Parker Branch: Findings, a hundred percent of your findings.

Sarah LaFlamme: Findings, right. We're presented, we're quoting 'em all and we're presenting them all. Um, and that kind of, um, at first was really scary for us too because when we first started with Parker, we didn't have a service advisor. It was me. Yep. And I was still wearing all of these hats.

Sarah LaFlamme: I was taking my hat on and off all day long. Calls, customers, payroll bills, everything. And so the idea that I would have to try to find time to carve out, carve out time to do all of the quoting for all of these items, I was like, there's just no way.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: And of course Parker, 'cause he is full of good, good information and good ideas that you need a service advisor.

Jr LaFlamme: I mean, even getting to the, even to some of the point where Sarah's like, Hey, I can't quote this out. I need help 'cause I got this, these quotes to do. So I had to stop wrenching to get involved with that aspect too.

Sarah LaFlamme: Right.

Jr LaFlamme: And it was just.

Sarah LaFlamme: We were realize, right. We were realizing that we were just, we were spread too thin in both departments, and there was just no way.

Sarah LaFlamme: So, I mean, there were times where we weren't able to actually even get estimates together for customers, and we lost out on those jobs because we were that busy. Yeah. So, yeah. So service advisor was the next step after we implemented, you know, dbis with, with the 300% rule, and then having somebody who could actually bring that over the finish line.

Sarah LaFlamme: Right. Um, because I unfortunately just couldn't, so, because I just had too many other things that I, I had to get done, so.

Jimmy Lea: Oh,

Parker Branch: yeah. Yeah. So adding that service advisor was a game changer. Absolutely. Uh, to change your guys' roles and it, and it puts you into another gear. Um Yep. And your, and your revenue and, um, giving you time to work on the business For sure.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct. Absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. DVI is a drum that's very near and dear to my heart. I, I pounded that drum for four years trying to get shops to implement, take pictures, take pictures, take pictures. It just really educates your customer and educated customer makes better decisions.

Sarah LaFlamme: Absolutely. We get that as feedback often from customers, whether it be through a review or just telling us verbally how much they love getting the videos and the photos that we send them.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Of their, of their cars.

Jr LaFlamme: A lot of people are visual. You can explain it to you're blue in the face, but a lot of people, if they see it and you explain it to 'em, they're more visual and they're like, okay, I got what you're talking about now and yeah, let's proceed with this, or so on and so forth. Or I'll put it on the back burner for now.

Jr LaFlamme: You know? So.

Parker Branch: Yeah. And that had a huge impact on driving their average written estimate up. And therefore their average repair order came up substantially from that as well. So we saw some, some great changes there.

Jimmy Lea: All right. I have a lot of questions for you about the DVI then, uh, what are you using? Is it integrated with your point of sale?

Jimmy Lea: What did you average repair order go from and to?

Sarah LaFlamme: Oh. Okay, so tech metric is what we're using.

Jimmy Lea: Love

Sarah LaFlamme: it. Um, and fully

Jimmy Lea: integrated, simple

Sarah LaFlamme: using fully integrated

Jimmy Lea: pushes right into it.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yep. Yep. And we text every single, um, DVI right out to the customer. And, um, so it's seamless. They have the link they can go back to and they can keep they, and they can forward it to other people and review it too, which is nice because sometimes, you know, maybe they wanna send it to dad to review, you know?

Sarah LaFlamme: Oh yeah. Maybe they feel uncomfortable making that decision on their own. Um, and our a RO, Ooh, I know I should have that number. And Cecil's somewhere on here. Probably, probably going, she should have these numbers. And Jennifer probably too. Um, um, that's one of the things that I'm working on is, uh,

Jimmy Lea: let's, it's not a, it's, we're not gonna hold your feet to the fire.

Jimmy Lea: This is a, a scientific wild guesstimate on we were somewhere in the. S range and we went to somewhere in this range.

Sarah LaFlamme: Okay. So I would say our, before we were doing the DVI, we were probably in the 300 range.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: And then we've gone to well over 600 for our aros right now.

Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. Yeah. That's, that's phenomenal.

Jimmy Lea: And, and the result of that is better cars on the road. Yes. Your average repair order went up. Wonderful. Yes. As a business we're able to make it. Okay. And we're profitable. Okay, cool. But the more important thing, our clients, our customers are making better decisions about their vehicles. They're safer on the road, which also means your safer on the road, your family is safer on the road.

Jimmy Lea: And my family is safer on the road because our clients, our customers are making better decisions. I love that. I, that is wonderful. I'll never stop counting that drum. Alright. And the DVI may be the crown jewel in this. But if you can think of something else, we'll talk about something else. If another shop owner could copy just one thing that you've done this last year, what should it be?

Sarah LaFlamme: Uh, so it's funny 'cause we talked about this recently and when it was just JR and I, um, and when you first start your business, um, you relying on friends and family kind of to start you. And so we did a lot of emotional pricing and Cecil talked about it in that webinar we went to. And then I looked at JR.

Sarah LaFlamme: And I was like, are we emo doing emotional pricing? And then like the next time one of our family members, it was like not even a family, it was like a friend of a friend of a friend, uh, you know, and I went, you've distant

Jimmy Lea: too far. Too far.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. And I'm in there because I'm a bleeding heart and I'm like, I don't know.

Sarah LaFlamme: She, I know she doesn't, not a lot of money and, and again, I'm making decisions for her. And, and I said, you know. I think we're making too much emotion, like we're making these emotional pricing. Yeah. You know, pricing and Parker, and we talked to Parker about it when we started with him and he said, yeah, absolutely.

Sarah LaFlamme: You need to get this set and this is what it is. And um, and that actually is kind of like, it all kind of went hand in hand with having that service advisor position in, because now I'm a step back from that. I'm not doing the everyday, um, oper like that part of it. So my service advisor's doing that, so I can't get emotionally involved.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, because, and he, and he doesn't care because it's not his family or of a friend. Of a friend. Of a friend, right. He's not gonna be emotionally involved in that. So, um, that has really helped us. So I would say, no, don't do emotional pricing. All you're doing is just discounting and

Jr LaFlamme: your, your value.

Sarah LaFlamme: Your value.

Sarah LaFlamme: And I love helping. I love helping people and we'd like to help people as much as we can. But if you're not in a position where you can help people, and we weren't when we were in that. Position. We weren't in that position to help people. We were barely skimming by and, but we were cutting ourselves short because we just wanna help everybody.

Sarah LaFlamme: So, yeah. Um, but so important thing to I think, people to, to learn.

Jr LaFlamme: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is so true. Parker, what about you? What's one of those things that, uh, uh, another shop owner, if they were to copy one of the things that you have done in your shop over the last year, what would you suggest?

Parker Branch: Um, you know, the first thing that comes to mind was when you presented that question, even to JR and Sarah as that I was thinking about, you know, when I started Branch Automotive and, you know, the end of 2009 actually started functioning in 2010.

Parker Branch: Um, I was a couple years into it, running some fairly decent volume of sales through the shop at $80 an hour. Ooh. And I don't know what my parts margin was because I didn't have a coach, therefore I didn't know.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah.

Parker Branch: So for me, when I first started to try to get some coaching and was introduced to the institute and actually understanding what the best shops in the industry and, and putting these pieces together, that was a game changer for me.

Parker Branch: And I think, um, Sarah is very sharp with numbers and paying attention to that. And she was frustrated because she wasn't where she wanted to be, but she also didn't know where she should be. And I think that was part of when we first talked, they, they were like, you know, there's a little bit of are we doing the right things?

Parker Branch: Where should we be? What do we need to to change? So, you know, uh, I, I don't want to take a whole bunch of credit 'cause I, I give the credit to Cecil and the institute and the pe, Jennifer Holbert, the people that have coached me. Um, and then I'm sharing my journey with them. Through those experiences. Um, having the coach is, it's the biggest game changer there is.

Parker Branch: You don't know what you don't know.

Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely.

Sarah LaFlamme: I would agree. And if I could just jump on that, one of the first things that when we met with Parker at our first meeting was he kind of said like, what is your goal? Like, what do you wanna, where do you wanna be? So that, you know, 'cause from that he started building us kind of our outline, right?

Sarah LaFlamme: Like, think of writing an essay in high school. You kind of start with your outline. And so he kind of start, started helping us build that outline. How can we achieve what we wanted? And for us, all we wanted was work-life balance. Balance. Yep. We don't wanna be wealthy and rich. I mean, it'd be cool if we were, but we wanted to be happy.

Sarah LaFlamme: We wanted to be present for our time with our kids, um, and, and be able to leave work behind, but, and still have it, you know, be successful. Um, and we, you know, and be able to travel. We didn't take a vacation for years.

Years,

Jr LaFlamme: yep. Um.

Sarah LaFlamme: You know, and it's, it's hard because it's not just us, it's also our kids.

Sarah LaFlamme: So to tell them, oh yeah, we can't take another vacation again, and they're like, well, everyone else is taking a vacation.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Or not, you know, or also not being able kids wake up in the morning not being able to see 'em before school.

Sarah LaFlamme: Right. Yeah. Or

Jr LaFlamme: seeing them right before they go to bed.

Sarah LaFlamme: Right. You

Jr LaFlamme: know, I mean, coachings helped out with that tremendously.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So Parker was able to give us so much data of like where we should be, but in little tiny bites. So it wasn't overwhelming of like, let's start here. Okay, we need to start with let's hire another technician. If maybe we can't get that, maybe we just go to the right service advisor. Maybe that can help.

Sarah LaFlamme: And that actually ended up being the, the better. Um. Process for us was to go service advisor, and then we added more tech after tech. Yep. But, um, yeah, to not know, to know I had these numbers, but is that the right number? Should my parts margin be this, should it be that? Should my labor margin be this? I don't know.

Sarah LaFlamme: I don't know. You know? So for him to give me, am I spending even down to like the, um, the expenses? Am I spending too much on my accountant? Am I spending too little on advertising? Um, these are

Jr LaFlamme: software too much.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. These are things that, I mean, we're still working on these things. Um, and, but it's nice that the institute has gone and done all that work and provided that the, the

Parker Branch: benchmarks Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Those references for everyone to, to have. So yeah, it was great.

Parker Branch: Yeah. I think you're, you're gonna be super excited as you continue. Um, you know, there, uh. Sarah and JR are moving into a gear performance group. They're in transition now, and they'll have Jennifer Holbert as their coach. And it's, you know, Sarah had some, some fears and worries about how's this gonna be with the reporting and that, and I, and she is a powerhouse with her numbers, and I was like, you and Jennifer are gonna get along.

Parker Branch: Like, you're gonna be worried at first, but when you get in there and feel what, you know, what we've done with coaching one-on-one, getting some structure and some ideas and having someone to talk to that's been through the same pain points that you are, have tried this, tried that. Um, when you get in there and have 15 to 20 shop owners surrounding you that also have been on that journey and with Jennifer's expertise and, and, and she's just brilliant.

Parker Branch: So you're, you're gonna love that.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We're really looking forward. Look forward to it. Yeah, we're looking forward to it. Our first in-person meeting is at the end of this month, so in a couple weeks. Um, we're gonna get to meet a whole bunch of other shop owners who are like-minded, and we're really excited about it.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yep. You know, we're happy that we at least had Parker for at least over a year though, because before that you kind of just feel like you're out in the middle of the desert by yourself. You know, we felt like we were drowning. And then when we had Parker, we at least had somebody to bounce ideas off of.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and talk about the, the, the losses and the wins, you know what I mean? There was one month we had our best month ever and the very first thing Parker said when he got on the call was, congratulations on your best month ever. And we were like, we go. Oh, was it? We were so, we were, we were so busy, like trying to, we

Jr LaFlamme: didn't even know.

Sarah LaFlamme: We didn't know we had, so we're trying, we're, you know, we were just trying to implement so many things, right? Get our SOPs in place. Another thing that Parker told us to get rolling on, you know, so everyone knows what we're expecting of them. Um, you know, we were trying to get all these things that we weren't even paying attention to that, to the full, to how we were, you know, how I was doing on that.

Sarah LaFlamme: So, um, yeah. But with the service advisor, now I can actually, I'm having so much more time to look at all those numbers and, and, and, and make sure that we're actually on the same path that we wanted to be on.

Parker Branch: Yeah. And Jimmy, they were. They were open-minded because, you know, we, it's not always, we knew, hey, it would be ideal if we could get a technician to replace JR in the shop to free him up.

Parker Branch: And because the business is young and we still don't have an advisor or, you know, we're trying to add to the team to get our structure to free. You know, the owners up a little bit. Um, you know, we went after technician first. We had a, some, some trials and tribulations there. And we, we had talked about it like, hey, you know, there were times I had to go back in the shop and stay there and be the guy in the shop.

Parker Branch: So we switched gears a little bit and we said, Hey, let's see if we can, you know, find that service advisor position. And they did. And, and that made another positive change, um, helped create that vacuum to then attract this technician with a big, fancy beard. And here we go.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. ZZ top, Steve.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah, he's the best.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Parker, I think you're hitting it right on the head. And, and, okay. Now that it's in the room, the nail is up. I've gotta hit it with a hammer. Jr we kept talking about you being this bottleneck by doing the, the, you were the hands-on the heavy duty work.

Jr LaFlamme: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: Um. What did it feel like for you to hear that?

Jimmy Lea: Okay. We need JR to transition from being a technician to being an owner.

Jr LaFlamme: So part of it is when I'm doing the job, you know, it's done your way, so on and so forth. But the Institute and Parker, they've implement the SOPs, getting all that into place, which has helped out a lot. So putting those into place with technicians and guiding the technicians the right way, um, has also helped alleviate that off of me where I could go training these guys and also bringing on Steve and so and so forth, they, it's good to see now I don't have to get so much involved with the technician side.

Jr LaFlamme: Now I have guys out here that I have trust in, um, that can keep the wheels turning and I. Don't have to be in every step.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. It feels like he can almost nurture the technicians a little bit more into, right into like how we do it, the la flam way. Right. How we, how we, what we expect, which is probably pretty similar to most shops, but, um, but yeah, so that's been, um, a big thing.

Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. And, and there's a big controversy in, in the social media world right now that says if your coaching company only tells you that you have to work on your business, not in it, they are not a good coaching company and that's not the story. Eventually we want to work you to that position where you can work on it.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct.

Jimmy Lea: And, and here's my question to you, Jr. How long did it take? How long was that transition period? Because you can't do it day one.

Jr LaFlamme: No.

Jimmy Lea: I mean, how long did it take you to make that? And you're probably still not fully transitioned.

Jr LaFlamme: That's correct. And we're still working on it to get me to that point because I need to spend more time on the business instead of.

Jr LaFlamme: In the business, so, um, we'll say ever for a while.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Yeah. So we've been open, yeah. Just over four years we've been open and I would say, uh, just up until the last, like couple of months.

Jr LaFlamme: Months Yep.

Sarah LaFlamme: Is when he's finally like his numbers. So I, when I run my report, I'm, you know, I'm starting to really see that his numbers for billables is really dwindling.

Sarah LaFlamme: And at first I kind of razed him and I was like, Hey, your billable aren't very good. Um, but they're not supposed to be because we're supposed Yeah. The technicians are supposed to be doing this stuff. So yeah, now he has more time to train them and work with them on

Jr LaFlamme: that, and also do business stuff that I need to do, um, instead of doing it say after hours or in between things here and there.

Jr LaFlamme: So that has helped out tremendously.

Parker Branch: Oh, JR was feeling pretty overwhelmed at times.

Jr LaFlamme: Yep.

Parker Branch: That he was, you know, really carrying the load in the shop. So, yeah.

Jr LaFlamme: And it's very tough when, you know, you have all this work that has to get out of your. Because it's promised to customers and you see 'em out there and you're like, all right, hey, I got a timing belt to do.

Jr LaFlamme: Hey, I got an r and r transmission out there still to do. In between fitting and oil changes and breaks. Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: He, there was many times where he said to me, I feel so much stress because everyone's, everyone's paychecks and everyone's livelihood is, is relying on me and my shoulders because, you know what I mean?

Sarah LaFlamme: So it was, and that's a, you know, a feeling that he doesn't say that anymore because we've got these technicians that are Steve who's got, he's excellent, knows what he's doing. We've got Tyler who's working his way up, he's learning a lot. He is absorbing like a sponge. Sponge. Yeah. Which is excellent. Um, and, but JR now has the time to put into Tyler and then, and then eventually into our next technician too.

Sarah LaFlamme: So,

Parker Branch: yeah. And you have, you have Chris carrying his role and his position. That also is, you know, kind of in the background, but pretty important, keeping the state inspection program running and helping cover some of the odds and ends. So definitely some supplemental, you know, employee. Helping carry the load and yeah, they've done a great job of, of knowing that.

Parker Branch: And, and when the business is young, you may still be in and out of the shop some, but you're, you've seen now the difference that can happen with adding the key areas of staff. You've seen what it's like to have that position maybe come and go and what the impact on the business was. Now understand the importance a little differently than you did before.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And like you were just saying, having Chris here also, also, um, alleviates me a little bit. 'cause if I'm tied up doing something, everybody. Under like technician, stuff like that. Notice, see Chris if Jr. Right. Or Sarah's busy.

Sarah LaFlamme: I will. Yeah. So that's advice I would give other shop owners too.

Sarah LaFlamme: Eventually when you get to a point where you're wearing too many hats, you, you need to think about getting a, a jack of all trades kind of guy. The guy who can be in the background, which is our, our guy Chris. He has trained in every department and done everything in the shop except for my stuff, right?

Sarah LaFlamme: Like accounting, he's done, he's cross-trained in all of it so he can back us up. And that's what we worked really hard for the last year was to try to get him into that position, um, get him trained up and everything too, so that way we can leave and go meet other shop owners in our gear performance group.

Sarah LaFlamme: Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do that.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And they each, like, having somebody there that knows, um, the business, the way, the direction, how things are operational, having people go to somebody else when you're not around is a bonus. Because you don't have the doubt in your mind saying, Hey, is this getting done?

Jr LaFlamme: Well, I know they're gonna go see this individual. Um, they know how we do things. They're the go-to if we're not here. So

Jimmy Lea: that is awesome. That is awesome. It, it sounds like not only have you been able to free up Jr's time to work on the business, but bringing in Chris also allowed you, Sarah to work on the business as well.

Sarah LaFlamme: For sure. Um, you know, the service advisor role and having Chris as our shop, like I said, Jack of all trades, um, has really helped because I have been able to start delegating, which is a big thing. Um, we had to, you know, that's one of the hard things is being a business owner when you start the business is you feel like you don't wanna let go of anything.

Sarah LaFlamme: And that's something that we've been working really hard to actually pry that responsibility off of us and delegate it to someone. And maybe they don't do it exactly how you would do it, but you work with them to try to get them up to that level, you know what I mean? And so it's been, it's been hard, but yeah, it's.

Sarah LaFlamme: Chris has def definitely done that. And then even JR being, um, being less of a bottleneck, right. And being alleviated in the shop has made it so I can actually hand him back some of these duties that I've been doing in addition to all my very, like administrative and operational things like

Jr LaFlamme: marketing,

Sarah LaFlamme: you know what I mean?

Sarah LaFlamme: Like, because I'm doing all the marketing and stuff too. And then, but you know, so now I can hand back some of the, um, management, hr, like a little bit some of these things back to JR as he has more time now, um, which makes it so I can spend more time moving the forward, the business forward, which has been great.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that, that is really good. That is really good. All right. Now, now we're to a point, uh, this is the section of the interview we're gonna call. The worst or the most, the worst or most embarrassing implementations that you've done in the shop where you thought, well, that didn't quite land the way I imagined.

Jimmy Lea: I thought that might've gone a little bit different. What has been the most embarrassing rollout you attempted that didn't quite land right? I'm not

Jr LaFlamme: really sure.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, geez, that's hard. I would say the DVI is actually, um, so we were lucky with Steve when he came on more recently that he worked for a place that already did that.

Sarah LaFlamme: But before that, that the text we had did not. And so, um, rolling out the DVI was, you know, a yeah, a they, they gave me, they gave us some pushback, right? Yeah. Like, you know, it's gonna take time and, and you know, and then, um, and then seeing the quality of them coming back in, that was where we were like, oh, that did not land.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Or the consistency, like 1D VI would have all these photos, the next one would be missing half of them.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Two photos, right? Yeah. So, I mean, and that's something we continue to work on and, you know, each technician almost brings their own. Um, style, don't style to it. Right. Which is great because then we can use that as an example.

Sarah LaFlamme: We see something on A DVI that we really like that Steve did or Tyler did, and we're like, wow, we want everyone to do it this way 'cause this is great for the customer to see and this is easier for them to understand. So, um, but yeah, for sure D vs. Were they were a hard rollout.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We just do a dbi.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, it's, a lot of people think it goes that way, but it does and it takes a lot of handholding to implement a, a successful digital vehicle inspection program. It certainly does. Alright, so, uh, most and worst have, tell me about a time that you solved a problem and in doing so, created a new problem.

Sarah LaFlamme: I've got one example. When we hired our service advisor, our very first service advisor, um. Yeah, that was to solve a problem. But it created a big problem, a bigger problem for me because then I had to actually take the time to like be patient and train them. And Parker was all the time, like, Sarah, you gotta sit next to them.

Sarah LaFlamme: You gotta sit next to 'em. Yep. You gotta go like baby, step them through. Um, and so that ended up becoming like a bigger problem. I didn't At at, right? Yeah. At the time I didn't think it was gonna be, I was like, this is a great solution. Here you go. Just put 'em in the seat. And then Parker's like, no, you can't just do that.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And one thing, one thing I add to that is for a service advisor, one thing I would definitely suggest to people is make sure you put your time into 'em and make sure they have your procedures and they know your procedures and processes. So this way here, they're not on the front lines going, I don't know, I'm not really sure what to do.

Jr LaFlamme: Right.

Jr LaFlamme: You know, so make sure you put your time into it with that. And Parker was. Great with that, helping us in that aspect as well. So

Parker Branch: yeah, that, that was a great learning experience. You know, that was, you don't know what you don't know until you get there. And, and the individual that, you know, we got hired and, uh, I, I remember getting on a call and Sarah was like, yeah, you know, they've been here two days and I turned them loose and it's terrible.

Parker Branch: Wait a minute.

Sarah LaFlamme: In my defense, we just have such tight quarters, um, you know, oh,

Parker Branch: it was a space,

Sarah LaFlamme: there wasn't even room for me next to stand next to them. So it was very, it was hard. So, yeah, so

Parker Branch: we reeled it in, we talked about it, about how to, you know, I, I told them in, in my shop, even some of the higher level. People that we've brought in as a, in a mature, you know, business, 10 plus years, we still have, our manager was one of our best advisors and he is joined at the hip with that individual for, if it's a very well experienced advisor, probably still a couple weeks, and if it's not probably a month, and, uh, they reeled it in and, and when they made their changes to the current advisor, um, they did a great job of really setting those expectations.

Parker Branch: And it's just like, you know, we were talking about, you were sharing about the DVI and some of the difficulties there, and I, and I'm thinking there's a couple SOPs, um, setting the expectations with the tax of, hey, this is how many pictures we want and why and, and the good and the bad. So, but they've done a great job of that.

Jr LaFlamme: Thank you.

Sarah LaFlamme: Thank you.

Jimmy Lea: So as you're looking for advisors and you are looking for that advisor. Fit Is there a difference between a, um, a transactional service advisor versus a relationship service advisor?

Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, definitely. And um, like I kind of touched upon before, for us, one of our core values is community.

Sarah LaFlamme: Like that feeling of community and that everyone feels really welcome and that, um, because that's how I wanna feel when I go places and I wanna feel treated like, I want them to say, Hey, Sarah, and know my name, and remember my car, and, and things like that. I can't expect, I know every service advisor to remember every single person's exact, you know, thing.

Sarah LaFlamme: But, um, in the years that I was in the, at the front, that was, that was me. I was doing that. I was very relationship. We were building relationships and those people were our biggest supporters sending in new customers to us. Like all like tenfold. Like one person, one happy customer is sending like 10 people, like their whole family.

Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and so, you know, that was really important to us is to make sure that people feel that there's that relationship and that we're not just so a one-off, oh, we fix your car, take our, take your money, and we never talk to you again. You know? I mean, like I said, we are in this community. We live in this community.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So the chances that we're going to see them outside of this building is very good. I mean, I can't go to the local grocery store on the weekend without running into my customers. Yeah. So, um, and ask, and then I ask 'em, how's your car running? And things like that. So, um, whereas transactional. That, Hey, just, you know, like JR called it, like being at the, like being at the deli next.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: Next, take a number next. And, and we're just not like that. So, um, we've worked really hard with our current, um, service advisor to make sure that he's not like that. Uh, he came from a shop that was a little bit more transactional where he was working and that maybe works for them, but it's not how it works for us in our small town,

Jr LaFlamme: so.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And one thing I'll say is a lot of our customers, they really enjoy that. Where they, we see 'em walking in the door, we're like, Hey Joe, how you doing? And they're like, Hey, JR. Sarah, hey, I'm back with for my oil change or something. And they love the fact of the interaction like that. They, it's, it goes a long way.

Jr LaFlamme: And I mean the, the feedback even we hear from that. A lot of customers like that feel, they don't, they don't wanna just feel like they're. Punching a ticket or getting a, a deli ticket or something. Right. You know?

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah.

Jr LaFlamme: They like the personal,

Sarah LaFlamme: they want it to be fixed properly.

Jr LaFlamme: Correct.

Sarah LaFlamme: For a good price and they want a good relationship.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We're gonna serve it all up together.

Jimmy Lea: That is, that is so true. It has to all go together. The relationship, the quality. Uh, what did you learn about your own leadership style as you are Hmm. Um, training these service advisors? Finding the misalignments, saying thank you. No, thank you. What did you learn about your own leadership style?

Jr LaFlamme: Well, I mean, for myself, I still, we're still working on it day to day. Um, as far as that goes, it's like everybody can't be you. You can't expect everybody to do it your way or say things exactly how you do it. So, as far as leadership role goes and is pretty much setting expectations of saying. You don't need to necessarily bring it forward this way, but this is the way kind of, um, we would like you to have it go or direction.

Jr LaFlamme: We would like you to have it. And letting go of that aspect.

Sarah LaFlamme: I have sung the song from Frozen to my husband many times. Let It Go. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I, he has come into my office many times, like very frustrated about something and I'm like, let it go. Let it go. There's some things that are just not worth, and, you know, I think Parker can attest to this, that you gotta pick and choose your battles.

Sarah LaFlamme: You know, for me as the person training on the service advisor side, um, I, my managerial style has changed from being very, I used to be a little bit more uptight. Um, and I've just become a little bit more mellow because I'm realizing like. I need this person. They need the job, but I also need them. And I, it needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

Sarah LaFlamme: And, um, they, they're not, I'm not gonna get that from them. If I am, if I'm harping on them about stuff and da

da,

Jr LaFlamme: they're coming off like

Sarah LaFlamme: a fair

Jr LaFlamme: or something.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. I, you know, and I'm a very demo, I personally am a very democratic person, right. We have team meetings all the time, and I'm like, Hey, we're thinking about doing this.

Sarah LaFlamme: What does everyone think? Like I ask everybody's opinion, you know, and I take it under advisement, you know, because I wanna see, you know, what do they, what do they, I want them to feel like they're included in this because we really are like a big team.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And the biggest thing, communication.

Parker Branch: You guys have done a good job of letting go of the vine a little bit where you needed to.

Parker Branch: And we definitely work through some of the pers you know, there's gonna be different people in that you're gonna, you know, maybe bring into the business and you might outgrow them. Things will change. You do what you need to, to survive and get by and try to, you know, create ex excellence in those positions.

Parker Branch: Um, I, I know that when you guys were talking about that, I'm thinking leadership intensive will be so good for you guys. I already,

Sarah LaFlamme: I know

Parker Branch: I already,

Sarah LaFlamme: I've already got that. Is it coming up already?

Parker Branch: There's one coming up in March in Ogden.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, geez. Yep, yep. And in fact, there's a holiday bundle right now you can take advantage of, will get you three intensivess, which is normally like 6,000, uh, $6,700 for $5,000.

Jimmy Lea: You get a three day service advisor training, a leadership intensive and a financial intensive or, um, um, the marketing intensive. So all of that bundled together $5,000.

Sarah LaFlamme: Wow, that's a great, that is a great deal right

Jr LaFlamme: there. Absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It really is, really is. Now, as we kinda land this plane here, I've got a few questions I wanna ask.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, all of you and, uh, Parker, you get to answer the last one. These are jr. This is to you and Sarah, this is to you. If coaching ended tomorrow, what are some of those non-negotiables that you would keep forever, always implemented Jr. You first,

Jr LaFlamme: I would say the three Cs. Um, that would be one to stick with.

Jr LaFlamme: Um,

Sarah LaFlamme: yeah,

Jimmy Lea: Sarah,

Sarah LaFlamme: that was, that was definitely a big thing, is making sure that people know, you know, what's causing the problem, what's the act, you know, what are we gonna do to fix it and all that. So that's definitely something. Um, I think the 300% rule for me is something that. You know, we will never let go of, um, there's, there's no reason to at this point.

Sarah LaFlamme: We've already implemented it. Why would we go backwards? Correct. You know, um, everyone knows what we expect of them. We've had many meetings about it and said, that's a reminder. 300% rule reminder, 300% rule. And then we're, and then we, you know, like we're school made them, you know, each of them answer what the 300% break, what it breaks down to.

Sarah LaFlamme: So

Jimmy Lea: I love it. I

Sarah LaFlamme: love it. They're on the same page.

Jr LaFlamme: ABIs

Sarah LaFlamme: be

Jimmy Lea: another, they're Sarah. What is something you wish someone had told you in year three of your business that coaching forced you to learn to do?

Sarah LaFlamme: Oh, geez. Um, when we were in, I would say when we were in year three, we thought that the, you, you. To be a business owner, you have to be working in your business, right?

Sarah LaFlamme: Like in it, on the front lines and all that. And that's been something that is not the case. You know? Um, I wish we kind of, and even if somebody told us in year three would we have, would we have, um, drank the Kool-Aid on that? I don't know right away, you know, sometimes it takes a little bit of time for you to get used to it, but we really, you can't be, you can't be working in your business a hundred percent of the time and also working on your business.

Sarah LaFlamme: And that is something that has become so apparent to us in the last year that you, you just can't do it all. And so you have to get the right people into those positions so you can do those things. So you can work on the business. And sometimes we still work in the business JR was just wrenching on a car this morning.

Parker Branch: Yep.

Sarah LaFlamme: You know, I'm answering phone calls sometimes too. Take making appointments and things like that. Backing up our service advisor. 'cause that's what we, that's what you do. You don't leave it behind. And I love that. I actually love working with the customers. So anytime that our service advisor is out, I don't mind running in there taking, I've taken over but.

Jimmy Lea: I totally agree. And you, you step in, you do what you gotta do. The business still has to run, we still have to keep the lights on, the doors open. And so you do what you gotta do to, to make that happen. So Jr Yeah, if you have to pick up a wrench, Sarah, if you've gotta pick up the phone, Parker, if you gotta pick up the phone, you do what you gotta do to keep the business rolling.

Jr LaFlamme: Exactly.

Jimmy Lea: All right. To to JR. And, and Sarah and then, uh, Parker, you can answer this after as well. What would you say to a shop owner who's on the fence because, oh, we're just too busy or, uh, we can't afford coaching or we can't implement it right now. What advice would you give to somebody, uh, a shop owner who said, who's sitting on the fence?

Sarah LaFlamme: We literally said every single one of those things to ourselves, we had this conversation and we're really lucky that there's two of us. We get to bounce off these ideas with each other. Um, but we literally thought the same thing. I'm, we're too busy. How am I gonna find time to, to, you know, meet with my coach in a month?

Sarah LaFlamme: I'm too busy. Yeah.

Jr LaFlamme: How are you gonna afford it?

Sarah LaFlamme: How are we gonna afford it? And all that. And you know what? You just do it. You figure it out. You figure out a way to make it happen. I started looking at the numbers thinking, well, if we just do one more, you know, four wheel brake job, we can, we can pay for this for the month.

Sarah LaFlamme: You know what I mean? Like, if that means the jar has to get out there and do one extra one even on a, on a Saturday, then we're gonna do it. You know? And um, so I, I think it was one of the best decisions. I think it was, um, it was a hard sell, uh, for JR. At first. I was really like an early, yes, let's do this.

Sarah LaFlamme: And he was kind of a little bit more hesitant and

Jr LaFlamme: yeah. And,

Sarah LaFlamme: and a couple months ago,

Jr LaFlamme: and I'll be the first one to sit here, admit it, and reached shop out there. That is in doubt.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah,

Jr LaFlamme: I would a hundred percent do it all over

Sarah LaFlamme: couple months ago he

Jr LaFlamme: said and do it again.

Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. A couple months ago he came to me and said, oh, I'm, maybe I should.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. This is a good idea. This was a great idea. I'm glad we did it. Um, yeah. It it puts you, yeah. It, it we're over time and it, it helps you out. Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: We're just so much happier now.

Jr LaFlamme: Yeah.

Sarah LaFlamme: We feel so much more calm and happier than we were when Parker first met us. We were frazzled.

Jr LaFlamme: I don't have bags down to here anymore.

Jimmy Lea: Well, and Dylan, Dylan agrees with you. He says you can't afford not to have coaching,

Jr LaFlamme: right? That's correct.

Jimmy Lea: It's something you just have to have Parker to you. What do you say to the shop owner, the coach or the shop owner that's sitting on the fence?

Parker Branch: Um, I mean, it changed my life. Like, you know, I, I was in a two bay shop doing 800,000, two years in a row.

Parker Branch: Charging 80 bucks an hour. I probably should have done almost 2 million those two years. Um, but you know, the, the path, the people I've met through the industry, through the institute and going to the summits and different trade events is it's broadened my network. It's, I've learned so much from the institute and the people they brought me together with that has literally transformed my business and my earning.

Parker Branch: And I mean, if, if you're on the fence, I get it. I, I was there too. I was terrified to spend the money, just like JR and Sarah were saying. One of the things about the institute give it a try. What do you have to lose a month or two? That's one of the things that like, I, I am so proud of Cecil and Kent and Wayne and the institute over that whole strategy of we're not asking you to come here and sign away.

Parker Branch: Give us your mortgage off your house and you're stuck here for five years. Come in and give it a try. If it's not working for you, you know, here we go.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, if it's not working, you can bounce. Ours is a month to month agreement. Uh, jr. Sarah, thank you so very much for joining us, having the conversation.

Jimmy Lea: Thank you for your success. Thank you for keeping going and keeping at the grindstone Parker, thank you for being their coach and not letting them have excuses that were acceptable. There's no excuses here. It's get the job done. So to both of you, to all of you, thank you very much for joining me today.

Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much.

Jr LaFlamme: Thank you. Thank you very much for having,

Parker Branch: yeah, thanks everybody.

Jimmy Lea: Hey, and if you're listening to this, and this is some information that has resonated with you and with your shop, you figure, oh, I'm in the same position. I've got the same thing happening at my shop. We would love to have a conversation with you.

Jimmy Lea: And that's what it starts with is a conversation. So right as we finish, you're gonna see a QR code pop up. We're here to help you build a better business, which the result is a better life for you. And the net result for us is the institute is a better industry. So let's lock arms together. Let's lock arms together and help improve your shop, your business, and your life.

Jimmy Lea: My name is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Talk to you soon. Thank you. 

Jr LaFlamme: Thank you.

Show Summary:

Wayne Marshall and Cecil Bullard explain why waiting to feel ready keeps shop owners stuck and why coaching should be viewed as an investment with real returns. They share how coaching can quickly reduce stress, improve cash flow, and create more time and quality of life. They also cover technician pay plans that balance a steady base with incentives for quality, training, and production. The episode closes with what it takes to scale into multiple locations through strong processes, training, and teams, plus the reminder that being busy does not always mean being profitable.

Host(s):

Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute

Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach

Show Highlights:

[00:00:00] – Expenses versus investments and focusing on return

👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7Cr4H7HOVlI

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Wayne Marshall: Welcome to our session today on Ask V Anything. I'm Wayne Marshall here along with Cecil Bullard. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about expense versus investment. As we all know, there's many things that we do that we invest in, or we have different expenses, but in anything you do, you also wanna be looking at what you're getting for that return on investment and how it works.

Wayne Marshall: Expenses. They're a one time thing. You spend your money, you get it, you get the product, you get the service, and then there's other things you do that have a long-term return on that, and it's an investment that can build and continue to help your business as you move forward. So we're excited to get some of your questions.

Wayne Marshall: As we stated at the beginning, it's ask me Anything. Please submit those things. We would love to have this conversation, help share the knowledge we have. Cecil, you wanna share anything off the top?

Cecil Bullard: I think what we're, at least, what we're starting with here is this this comment that we get a lot of times from shop owners that want to improve their businesses that.

Cecil Bullard: May maybe struggling, and I know it's difficult to look at your business and go, man, I'm, I don't have any money. Three, three types of shop owners that we in general come to coaching. We have the people that are they were in a different industry and they're used to coaching. They understand coaching, they know the value of coaching, and they come in and they say, we just need a coach.

Cecil Bullard: And so what we've done is we've researched the. The automotive industry, and we believe that you guys are the top of the list. So we would like coaching. Those are the easiest people to sell. And frankly, they're also the easiest ones to probably work with in many cases. Because they're just, they're used to having someone there to help them.

Cecil Bullard: Know what they don't know. We also get the largest group is probably shop owners who've been in business for some period of time who have struggled. This idea that I wake up every morning and I say to myself, oh my gosh, I hope that we have enough cars and I hope we have enough work.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I hope that, at the end of the year when I actually have to file my taxes, I'm in the. Black instead of the red. And that's probably the largest portion. And from that group, we get this, we often get this idea that I can't afford coaching or I can't, yeah. I, or I think I heard it in the last couple of weeks.

Cecil Bullard: I heard, I think I've heard it two or three times. I wanna hire a manager first before I get into coaching. Or I want to hire a service advisor first, or I want to whatever, meet this

Wayne Marshall: sure

Cecil Bullard: thing. And what I tell people, to me, that's one of the most frustrating comments because those people never get coaching.

Wayne Marshall: Okay. Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: They just don't.

Wayne Marshall: Yep.

Cecil Bullard: And it's another excuse not to get serious about your business and get your business. And I also think that a lot of people out there think, oh my gosh, there's so much. It's gonna take so much time, so much energy, and so much effort. I will tell you that for most of the people that we have coached.

Cecil Bullard: That within a few sessions we've got it where it's oh, the pressure's off. There's more money in the bank. Now. There are, the job seems to be getting easier for me. And so they're not putting in the kind of time, energy, and effort that they have blown this out to be

Wayne Marshall: correct.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And then why would I do coaching? What's the point? The point is I don't know what, I don't know. Yep. So I have I was telling Wayne here earlier my, I worked for my dad. He had a shop and he would not support financially classes, coaching anything. He just thought we'll figure it out.

Cecil Bullard: And when I was started early in my service advisor career and my manager career, part of this. I went and found coaches and paid for 'em myself. And those thousands of dollars that I spent at the time have literally turned into millions of dollars

Wayne Marshall: In

Cecil Bullard: my increased

Wayne Marshall: revenue And profitability.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Over my life. Sure. And opportunity. And I think it also has increased lifespan. Yeah, because

Wayne Marshall: yes,

Cecil Bullard: you know when you're worried about paying the bills or you're, I've just gotta stay late and I know my wife wants me home and I'd like to go to my son's ball game, but I gotta get this car fixed 'cause I gotta pay the bills.

Cecil Bullard: That's the stress. All of that, I think leads to early, early death, or if not death at least. So much time and energy is spent on that frustration that could be spent in other places in your life.

Wayne Marshall: So I see we got a question that's been submitted from Yvette. Thank you. I know we've talked about some of this.

Wayne Marshall: I know you're gonna have a little more insight than I, but one of the things that I would ask that you. Expand on. I guess when it comes to guaranteed pay, it really comes down to what kind of a tech is it? A c tech we know is not gonna be as efficient as a B or an A. So when you talk about guarantee, it could depend on what level of attack and his skills.

Wayne Marshall: And the abilities. So expand a little bit on that, if you would. Cecil.

Cecil Bullard: Yvette, thanks for the question. Yes. There are multiple different ways that. People have been paid in the automotive industry. Right now, the two main ways are flat rate, meaning, I do an hour's worth of work. I get an hour's worth of pay, right?

Cecil Bullard: And then there's

Wayne Marshall: flag,

Cecil Bullard: Flag. No, that's flag. That would be flag. Yeah, that's right.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: No piece work. Peace. And then there's salary or or hourly, meaning, I'm here for an hour, I get paid x, right? Or for the week, I'm here for the week and I get paid X for the week.

Cecil Bullard: I don't believe that either one are the best. Frankly. I think flat rate puts the risk

Wayne Marshall: she's asking specifically an yes.

Cecil Bullard: It's got an, yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And an atex. I would still build the same kind of play, pay plan for Nat Tech that I would for a ctec. It would just have different numbers in it. We want to take about 60% of the pay.

Cecil Bullard: What we need to understand is what can I afford to pay that tech? And if you've done coaching and classes and sat through financial stuff, you know that I can afford to pay 20% of sales. To my technicians or I can for afford to pay about 36 to 38% of my labor, effective labor rate to my tech technician.

Cecil Bullard: Correct. Okay. And so we, once we know that I have an effective labor rate of. $150 an hour and I can afford to pay, let's say 40%. So that gives me $60 an hour to pay that technician. And that's gotta include the FICA and the feta and the workers' comp and all that stuff. Yeah. Fully

Wayne Marshall: loaded. Yep.

Cecil Bullard: And so what I would say is you go to Maslow, ma Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and you say people need to understand that.

Cecil Bullard: That their base needs are met. So I can't have someone working for me that worries about whether or not they can pay rent or there's food in their refrigerator, right? So I want to take about 60 to 70% of their pay, and I want to pay for that position, and I wanna pay that to them, either hourly or salary.

Cecil Bullard: This you get 60%. Then I want to take the other 40% and I want to pay it more in a flat rate kind of way. Meaning as you perform, as you do the things that I want you to do, you're gonna get this extra 40%. So for instance, let's say that I had a total of $1,800 after I took out Fcan Food and Workers' Comp, that I could pay somebody per week.

Cecil Bullard: I would probably take somewhere around 1200 of that and create a base. Either an hourly or a salaried base. And then I would take the other 600 and I would say, what do I want from that? A tech? Heck, I want quality of work. It's hard. To define that and you need to have things that you can really define.

Cecil Bullard: So I have to define quality of work, right? And for me, quality of work is no comebacks or a few and I don't believe in no comebacks 'cause it's not possible to be perfect. But if my tech does less than 1% warranty in a defined time period, then I'm gonna pay them per hour. They produce two bucks an hour extra.

Cecil Bullard: Extra. And then I also want. Education. 'cause I think that people that are constantly educating themselves are more forward focused. They're more they're more thoughtful. They're learning, they're growing. I need people like that because the world changes and the industry changes.

Cecil Bullard: And we usually put some form of eight hours in a quarter. 12 hours in a quarter as a training thing. Then they could get another $2 an hour for the hours they produce. And then I also need production. So if I have a tech in a bay that bay can produce 50,000 a month and probably should.

Cecil Bullard: And if I have a tech producing 20,000 outta that bay, then I have a tech that's, 40% productive, which is costing me a lot of money if I'm paying them any kind of base salary. And it's costing me money because that bay is not doing work that brings money in

Wayne Marshall: need throughput.

Cecil Bullard: So I want production and I usually start my bonuses around 35 hours in a week because we're using a labor matrix to 20 to 30% on top of the hours.

Cecil Bullard: To pay for the paperwork and the moving cars and the test drives and things like that. And so what I believe is that if I have a technician in my shop and we have work for them, that, and I'm using a 25% labor matrix on the labor that I can have a tech that can do 10 hours a. Okay.

Cecil Bullard: And of actual work that they can actually sell and bill

Wayne Marshall: hours.

Cecil Bullard: I was, I find it really funny 'cause you talk to techs and I love the texts. You put a bunch of techs in a room and you go, okay. How many of you have beat book time routinely, right? Oh, every, all, every hand. I'm the fastest guy in the world.

Cecil Bullard: And yet we know from the numbers, from the real numbers, from the hundreds of shops that we work with thousands. We've worked with that. The techs are usually 70, 80, 90% productive unless you're really working on your systems, processes, et cetera. And I love the fact that the techs are like, I can, I'm very productive, but ultimately.

Cecil Bullard: Unless we really do some energy and effort into managing that they're just not. Yeah. And and so 35 hours is usually where I start my small bonus for what you produce, and then 40 and 45. Because when you get over 40, then there's more profit in the labor.

Wayne Marshall: Correct.

Cecil Bullard: So I can pay the technician more as they're doing 40, 42, 45 hours.

Cecil Bullard: And so they can earn more, the shop can earn more. And the customer's still very happy and satisfied.

Wayne Marshall: Thank you Taylor. I see we got another question that's come in. What are the biggest problems with owners taking the leap into multis shop ownership Co. What can we do to be better prepared?

Wayne Marshall: I know the standard answer is can you leave your shop for X amount of time and run it the same as if you're there? Is the standard answer I hear. What are more specific issues you guys have seen? I'll start this one. As you look at what it takes, it starts with having good processes and good procedures.

Wayne Marshall: And if you've got everything well, organized so that when you get to a second, third, or a multis shop location, it's easy to take what you're doing at the first shop, apply it to the second, make sure you have the systems processes in place so that. Everybody knows and understands, and if you got the good things there that people can see and understand of what to execute and what the bar of expectation is, it, it makes everything else go very simple and very easy.

Wayne Marshall: And we all know, and I always use, when I talk to someone about this and we start talking about what's next, I start off with the very simple thing. We know that nothing happens in a shop until that phone rings. Or someone drives into the lot and you have an appointment, and the first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna talk to 'em, ask 'em what the problem is, and you're gonna start the inspection process.

Wayne Marshall: And if you've got something that's well done and well organized that. Between your service writer knows what questions to ask, that gives the right information to the tech so the tech can do the right diagnostic that needs to be done to give the right suggestions. That comes back to the service writer who then knows how to put together a good estimate and how to then present that estimate to the customer that at the end of the day.

Wayne Marshall: Gives conversion into an accepted work and all, and you always find delayed maintenance or other things that can turns into additional work. If we can get those things done, that everything starts well and smooth and you've got a good model in shop one, it makes it real easy to go to shop two, shop three and beyond now.

Wayne Marshall: It also gets very important, do we got the right people in the right place on the bus? Everybody's heard about the different scenarios of, and that's where you gotta sit here and start asking the question that they understand what's being asked of them and how to execute and execute at a high level with consistency.

Wayne Marshall: But that all comes back to training and coming up with all the right things. When I talk about. People who are go going in this direction and they're adding people and they're trying to make sure everything's well, I says, it's really a pretty simple thing. There's only three things that can happen when you're managing people and as you're going through the process.

Wayne Marshall: If something goes wrong, first thing, do we have the right processes and procedures in place? And if we say, oh, we don't, we missed this, so let's update, fine, tune, fix, and then retrain. But if you answer the first question that, no, we had all the right things. Then the second question is. Do we have the right training?

Wayne Marshall: Do everybody understand what needs to be done? Oh, we did it. Tom didn't know enough. We need to refresh 'em. We need to go back through it. But if you say yes again, no. We had the right procedure. We did all the right training. The only thing you have left is the person. Do we have the right person in the right position?

Wayne Marshall: And sometimes as hard as it is, as you start to scale, you start to say, maybe I don't have the right person that can take us to the next level. So the best advice I give is around these type of things start at the very fundamental things. Do we even have the right intakes? Can we even just get the car in and get it going?

Wayne Marshall: That we can replicate this process over and over as we look at multiples?

Cecil Bullard: I think it's also, you really have to talk about team. 'cause that's really what it is, right? Do I have a

Wayne Marshall: Exactly.

Cecil Bullard: Do I have a team of people that can carry out. The job and get the job done efficiently and profitably and in a timely way.

Cecil Bullard: Correct. And do I have individuals that can do their job and know how to do their job? And I think most shops that, that I'm gonna go get a second location. I've seen this happen so many times. They have good people here, but they're doing everything. Based on I'm the owner and I'm telling people what to do and I'm managing I'll mention Lucas.

Cecil Bullard: Lucas Underwood. Lucas has struggled a bit because. When he's at the shop, he knows everything intuitively, right? So he can look at what's going on and make the adjustments in the shop for a much more productive, much more profitable business. The problem is that Lucas can't be in two locations at once.

Cecil Bullard: And that's the same thing with every owner. So have I taught my people what their job is and then how to do their job efficiently, productively and profitably. And if I have those people, it also doesn't mean that I'm gonna have those people at the next place, right? No, so true. And we would, don't get me wrong, if you have a really strong team.

Cecil Bullard: And you can go take two weeks off and you come back in the shop, there's no major problems, right? Whatever major problem happened while you were gone, somebody took care of it because they, no one understand how that needs to be done. I'm not necessary here. Now I'm gonna have a second location.

Cecil Bullard: I don't want to take all the good people from there and move to the second location because I'm gonna struggle in my first location. I'm building a team of people that know and understand their job and the job of the business, how it all fits together. And if I do that well and as a coach, or a consultant or whatever you wanna call me trainer, I'd love to see a nice process manual right?

Cecil Bullard: All formed out because I'd like to know that the job is well defined, because I've gotta take that and try to recreate that over here. And I've got whatever's here. Which is the other,

Cecil Bullard: The other thing, understand what you're buying as, as best as you can. And even though you might think you understand what you're buying, you may not really understand what you're buying.

Cecil Bullard: One of the guys bought a shop and paid too much for it, and there was a lot of money being run off the books and that's why they paid too much for it. And I. I told him don't buy it, but he did anyway. And when we got the shop, we had the employees there, but we come to find out all of the employees were being paid under the table.

Cecil Bullard: We can't do that. I'm a professional business person. I'm not willing to go to prison. Et cetera, et cetera. So I can't do that. How do you go to employees and say, I have to start taking taxes and FICA and feta and workers' comp and other stuff outta your pay and have them be happy.

Cecil Bullard: So all of a sudden we've pretty much lost and now we're building a whole new team. Probably a good thing, but that, do I have the energy, the effort, the the money, the bandwidth to, to do that? And if I have a team here that really knows and understands their job, then I can go here and spend time building this team.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But if I, now, if I have two teams that don't really know and understand their job or people on those teams that don't know and understand their job. It's gonna be much more difficult. And I will tell you, and I think anybody that's got multiple shops and we have lots of clients that have multiple shops, I think the largest we have right now is 26 or 28 shops.

Cecil Bullard: The, that having two shops. Is three times harder than having one shop. And having three shops is probably four times harder than having one shop. And having four shops is easier than having two or three shops.

Wayne Marshall: Yep.

Cecil Bullard: Because at that point you've worked some of the bugs out. You're getting some middle management, get scalability you can't afford, you're getting scalability.

Wayne Marshall: Yep.

Cecil Bullard: So when do I know well. I don't know, probably half or more of the people that, that go to shop. Number two is shop number three. Really probably aren't ready. The one nice thing about shop owners and is that we're. We're insane. We're crazy. We will do what it takes, which means if I've gotta work, 85 hours this week to, to make it work I will do that.

Cecil Bullard: And I think that's a plus in some ways, but I think it's a negative in other ways because we rely on ourselves to do the stuff where we can't expand our business if that's who we are.

Wayne Marshall: Simple, something I learned. In my business past life, simple question. I would always ask staff as we were growing and scaling and changing, they would come up and I go and we want to do it because there's a serving heart that you have as an owner and as you're building you, you just want to answer the question.

Wayne Marshall: You want to help 'em out. But to really build their knowledge, I would always stop and I'd go what do you think we should do? Tell me how you wanna solve this problem, how do you wanna go about it? And when you start listening to 'em, it's a simple test to know how much they really have studied the manuals and the processes.

Wayne Marshall: But you're gonna see that they can start answering that they really do have knowledge of the content and what we're doing. But the second is that it's an opportunity to give them affirmation and saying, perfect, that's exactly what I would've done too. And then they go away. And pretty soon some of those questions that were.

Wayne Marshall: Taking up a lot of your time and the question as it said earlier about being out of the office and Can I leave, can I not? Now you feel comfortable because you've tested knowledge by just a simple question of what do you think we should do? How do you think we should go about that? It's a way to see where they're at, what they got and what they need to be doing.

Cecil Bullard: And I've seen it over and again where the employees become hobbled.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: To use a horse term.

Wayne Marshall: Yes.

Cecil Bullard: And because. The, I was talk, I talk about electricity, where does electricity go? It's to the fastest path to ground.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Every single time. Least resistance, no matter what the path of least resistance.

Wayne Marshall: Yep.

Cecil Bullard: If you become the path of least resistance for your employees, then they're gonna come to you for all the answers, which makes you feel great. Don't get me wrong, I love it when employee comes to me and says, Hey Cecil, what? What do we do? And I can give them the answer and they walk me happy.

Cecil Bullard: And I'm like I still got it. I'm still smart, but. Am I hobbling that employee by giving them the answer? Do I? Don't I really wanna teach people how to come up with their own answers and how to make great decisions?

Wayne Marshall: Yes.

Cecil Bullard: And the more I do that in my business, the more likely I'll be ready for shop number two or shop number three, because I'm not the answer man in my company.

Cecil Bullard: We had a big company meeting yesterday. We brought some of our staffing. We're talking about the future. It's what we do at this time of year and I'm sitting in that meeting and, I've got. Lots of years of experience. I've founded the company, blah, blah, blah. And there's a lot of things that I could just go, okay, that's what we're gonna do.

Cecil Bullard: Or blah, blah. It, just I wanna be the answer guy. I know I wanna have the answers. I

Wayne Marshall: know.

Cecil Bullard: And it's really hard to sit there and go, huh okay, what do you think? Or, you but you have to do that. Otherwise you limit your company. I said it yesterday in our meeting, a company, a million dollar company runs a specific way.

Cecil Bullard: You cannot treat a, $5 million company the same way you treat a million dollar company. And a 10 million. And a 10 million won't run like a 5 million. Nope. Nope. And I would say it's the same thing. You can't, when you have one shop, you treat that in a specific way and you can be there.

Cecil Bullard: To answer questions. And so you can hobble your employees, you can hobble your team, you can make them relying on you. But when you go to two shops, you can't always be there. So you can't run two shops. Like you run one shop, you might get away with it. Frankly, it's gonna probably kill you timewise and energy wise but when you get three, no way.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so you can't run a multi shop operation the same way you run a single shop operation.

Wayne Marshall: That's why they say, the only difference from a company that does this much in business to this much in business to the even higher number of business dollars is just structure in its organization.

Wayne Marshall: We get into, as as we, going back to some of the things we talked about, expense, investment, everything that's going on. We get many clients we talk to and they're like, man, I was so busy. We were just slammed. We're this and that. But then you look at the data and then you look at was it the right kind of business?

Wayne Marshall: Sure you were busy, but were you doing the right things? Were you getting structured correctly that allows you to build off this, just as we talked earlier with a multi shop location that you want to build. So just 'cause you're busy. Doesn't mean you're always gonna be profitable, doesn't mean your financials are gonna look the way you want it to look.

Wayne Marshall: It's about building it out, getting it structured, getting it organized so that you can take those next steps. But also understanding and as we talk about with many clients, also know and understand what are the key KPIs that you want to be looking at so that you can truly see are my trending up. Am I trending flat or maybe, and hopefully not trending negative.

Wayne Marshall: And it's one thing to have a bad day or a bad week, it's another thing to have multiple bad weeks turns into a bad month and a second, and then all of a sudden you're looking at your balance sheet and you're looking at your p and ls and you're losing money.

Cecil Bullard: And in this industry we, we have this idea that busy equals success.

Cecil Bullard: So lots of cars in the bay Yeah. Means we're successful. Lot in the

parking

Cecil Bullard: lot. Wait a minute, the guy on the street's got all these cars in his base. Doesn't mean anything. Is he making money? Is are we creating happy clients that are gonna come back to us? Are we profitable? Had a conversation this morning with one of my clients that I was I work with and he's they got a healthy average repair order.

Cecil Bullard: They're booked out five days. And he's I, we didn't quite hit the numbers we need. Okay. So we have either, we have a problem in this particular case of car count, we have good average repair order. And we have good profit margin. And so now we wanna look at car count and how do we bring in two more cars a day?

Cecil Bullard: But if we're not making profit on the jobs we're doing or if we're not making enough profit on the jobs we're doing, then why would I want to bring more cars in?

Wayne Marshall: Exactly.

Cecil Bullard: So busy is not. Busy is not necessarily success, and I don't really want to be busy. I wanna be consistent.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah,

Cecil Bullard: I wanna have cons.

Cecil Bullard: I wanna be consistently booked out five to seven days and I wanna be consistent. I want to consistently have 13 cars a day because I have four technicians and I wanna consistently do great inspections and sell great work to my clients. And I don't wanna be busy is not.

Cecil Bullard: Necessarily better

Wayne Marshall: if you're not. Yeah you've gotta bring in the efficiency numbers. There's so many different variables and I've seen, I had one just here this week also. Because we're into a new year. We're reflecting, we're doing a review on the 2025 numbers. And you know when you sit there and there was about 500 hours.

Wayne Marshall: That were just lost through some inefficiencies and other things, and as I pointed out to the owner and we started talking about it, it's like, what could you have done with an extra 500 hours billable that got. Through the cracks and it was a bigger shop, big numbers, but still that's big dollars.

Wayne Marshall: We sat down and by the time we got through that was about $80,000 that was left on the table. That turns into real money. Significant money. Yeah. That makes a difference.

Cecil Bullard: Our conversation today was, okay, we do have a good average per but could we move it up a little?

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: I remember having a conversation with my staff and saying.

Cecil Bullard: What else could we do for our clients? And we decided that we were gonna replace their FOB batteries once a year.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And we did it for free as part of the service as far as labor, but we got, I don't, another $25 for batteries, right? Yeah. And so it moved the average repair order up Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And created more productivity and more profitability out of the company. Yeah. And it's these kind of conversations that. I don't know if I need to be in the middle of them or I even should, but. I want my team having those conversations, what do we do? And also I have a client that yesterday I was dealing with and he's oh my gosh, we did, they did 260,000 when we started with us, probably about one 30.

Cecil Bullard: So we more than doubled, but supposedly on their p and l they lost 13 grand. Yeah. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's no way that it, and we had a $35,000 property tax payment that they expensed all at once.

Wayne Marshall: Got it. Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And I'm looking through the p understand your numbers.

Cecil Bullard: 'cause he's paranoid. He's oh my gosh. And no, dude, this was your property tax bill. It's it's not part of the

Wayne Marshall: but you know that, that's where when we look at financials, it's a good reminder.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: When you get a one-time expense like that, that you're paying. Don't put it as part of your net operating income because it's a one-time deal, so it's still part of an expense, but put it below into extraordinary expense.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: It still shows that it's a negative on the net for the month, but when you look at from an operation standpoint, you still had a profitable month, you still did really well.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: As a shop. There's, this is where working with your bookkeeper, your accountant, talking about some of the different things because it can skew it and you miss this, that, no, I'm still doing well because if I didn't have this, which was an extraordinary expense that you've gotta put it on your financials, just don't put it as part of your operation.

Wayne Marshall: Or if you do wanna put it at as an operation, then amortize it over the year or over a time period of what that payment was to cover so it stays flat and even, and it doesn't affect your net

Cecil Bullard: operating. If we amortized it, we correctly we earn 12% now. I don't wanna earn 12%, I don't wanna earn 20. I know.

Cecil Bullard: So there's still work to do.

Wayne Marshall: I know,

Cecil Bullard: but it's not, we lost. 20%. Exactly. Yeah. Understand your finances. I want to, I wanna step backward. Don't have another question at the moment. If you do have a question, please, yes. Put it on. 'cause we're here to answer 'em. But I want to, I wanna go backward to this.

Cecil Bullard: Is it an expense? Yes. Coaching is an expense. You're gonna pay for that, but. If that's going to get you an extra 10,000, if that's gonna make your company more profitable, if that's going to increase your productivity, give you the opportunities to put a team together and build a really functional team Yes.

Cecil Bullard: So that you can expand into number two, number three, and become I don't know. I think I'm necessary here still, right? I think I add a lot. But I'm not necessary to the day-to-day operation. And so as I said, the investment that I've made in training and coaching, I still buy books like crazy and Kent drives me nuts.

Cecil Bullard: He's you bought another book? Yeah. I wanna I, I wanna learn new stuff. That has just it's worth millions. It's been worth millions, and it's been worth being able to spend time and do great things with my family and for my family that I don't know that I could have done that if I had done business the way my father had done.

Cecil Bullard: Business,

Wayne Marshall: When I talk to shop owners and we talk about do I do this, do I invest in that coaching, training and the things that come around it, and the biggest asset. That you have in your business are your people and yourself. And I always tell 'em, it's yeah, you wanna invest in that asset.

Wayne Marshall: But I also tell 'em, I said, if you're ever gonna bet on somebody, bet on yourself. So if you can make yourself better, stronger, and you can work in a different way. That is gonna give you a return on investment. Obviously this in a financial way, but then, as I've also used the analogy, it's we go to the doctor, I wanna be healthy, I wanna live long.

Wayne Marshall: I wanna do these things, doctor. I says, eat, pet, or exercise more, do all the things. So I join a gym, it's an expense. But if I take advantage of the gym, then the gym membership, and I get myself healthier, that's gonna give me better quality of life to go out and do and enjoy the outdoors. Maybe give me longevity of life to have greater experiences with my grandkids and my kids, and whatever you want to do as you get to that point in life.

Wayne Marshall: So it's,

Cecil Bullard: I think it's also,

Wayne Marshall: it just gives back and back.

Cecil Bullard: I think it's also value of life. Yes. Because I just don't want to like, go through this existence, which is

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Short enough.

Wayne Marshall: Yes.

Cecil Bullard: And get to the end and go, okay. Yeah. I lived a long time, but I didn't have quality of life, the

Wayne Marshall: value and quality

Cecil Bullard: during that time.

Cecil Bullard: And so the investment in the gym, if you never go to the gym. It isn't an investment, it's an expense. You wasted your money, but

Wayne Marshall: yeah, that's

Cecil Bullard: what I meant. But if you go to the gym and you take care of yourself, then inevitably you will live longer and you'll have better quality of life. I think coaching, it's not necessarily about money.

Cecil Bullard: We have the third type of people that we have come to us. They got plenty of money. Their shop is profitable, but they don't have any time, or they don't have the quality of life they want. Or they have a child that is gonna come take over the business that they want to have quality of life.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so they come to coaching and they ask for coaching so that they can learn those types of things. So for me, coaching in part is about profit. 'cause I want to be profitable. 'cause when you have money in the bank. It's easier. You can take more risk, you can do more things. You're be more calculated, more at peace, et cetera.

Cecil Bullard: But also for me, it's as much about quality of life and being able to say, I got a wild hair up my fanny and went to Vegas last week. I had a couple of days, didn't have much to do, and I was like, I'm gonna go hang out in Vegas. It's warmer. And, being able to do that and know that everything else is gonna happen the way it's supposed to happen.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think it's in, for me, it's invaluable. And I think I'm gonna live a lot longer because of it.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah. E Myth. Great book. And per what? Oh, you read a lot of books.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. E Myth is in my top 10. There's a, there's another book I'm I'm currently reading. Something hospitality un unbelievable.

Wayne Marshall: Unexpected hospi.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: And unexpected hospitality.

Cecil Bullard: No, it's, no,

Wayne Marshall: that's not yet.

Cecil Bullard: It's not, but it's,

Wayne Marshall: I know the book you about, and I apologize to the people out there, but I can't

Cecil Bullard: of

Wayne Marshall: any other,

Cecil Bullard: There's probably, in my top ten's, a top 10 for me, and the E-Myth is everything about system, process, running the business, understanding it.

Cecil Bullard: I don't know that we in the automotive industry have a really good. Financial book for our business because we need to look at our business financially a little different than, the hairdresser down the street or the grocery store. And I'm not sure there's a, that great book, but there's a lot of good financial books out there.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. To be had that will help you understand that or. There's some great coaches and coaching companies that can help you with that.

Wayne Marshall: We one of the, I, and this has been probably 10 years ago, I read this book and it might even be older than this, but it's just simply the title is Finish and.

Wayne Marshall: The reason I like this book, and I still reference it still to this day, is we as people, especially at the beginning of the new year, everybody starts off with New Year's resolution. Okay, this year I'm gonna get in shape, I'm going to eat better, I'm gonna do this, whatever it is. We have it for our businesses, we have it for our personal lives, so on and so forth.

Wayne Marshall: But the thing about when you start looking about finish, it's about, as you set goals, how do you get to the end? And how do you finish? And one of the things that it brought up, and I thought it was very, 'cause using exercise and getting in shape is an easy one. It's okay, I'm gonna run. I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna get in better shape, I'm gonna do this.

Wayne Marshall: But the question we never ask ourselves, do I even like running?

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. What's the end? Where do I want, where do I, what's the end result for me? Is it just about running or,

Wayne Marshall: so for me, I can tell you I hate running and I used to do it when I was younger, but I would, it would drop off 'cause I hate running.

Wayne Marshall: It wasn't, some people love to go out and jog and they love to run. It's their therapy. Me. It wasn't, it was a job, it was a chore. So how do you think I finished? I didn't, I dropped off. I didn't complete my goals, went off to the side. And it's a good book that just starts to really work through is that if I wanna be this and this, do I wanna read, do I even like reading business books as an example?

Wayne Marshall: Some people just like Cecil Devourer and just love getting them. I like it too, but I know other people I've talked to who's yeah, no, I don't wanna read all those books. So how else do I do it? Maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's whatever it is. If there's a place you want to go, decide what fits you first, then forcing you to do something you don't enjoy.

Wayne Marshall: 'cause you'll never finish the goal.

Cecil Bullard: Mark Buckingham has a book out. It's now Consider Your Strengths, I think is the title. It talks about educational theory in a way.

Cecil Bullard: In the past, if you were really good at math, but you were terrible at English. They wanted to spend a lot of time with you in English, right?

Wayne Marshall: Yes.

Cecil Bullard: And this book really says if you're really good at certain things, then those are the things you should be doing, and you should be finding people. Yes. And surrounding yourself with other people in your life or in your company that are good at the things that you are not good at and makes

Wayne Marshall: a great team.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we certainly have that, a lot of that here, which by the way uc, personalities make make us depersonalize a little nuts. But. It that is, I think it's important to say, these are the thi. Not only are these the thi this is the result I want, but these are the different ways that I could get there, and these are the ways that I'm going to enjoy.

Cecil Bullard: Getting there. And there's always gonna be some pain involved. If you've gotta lose weight, it's, there's gonna be some pain involved. You're not gonna probably eat as much. You're gonna exercise a little more. You're gonna change some of your habits. You want to be more successful in your business.

Cecil Bullard: There's gonna be a little pain involved. You're gonna have to learn some things that you currently don't know. And that can be

Wayne Marshall: adapt a little.

Cecil Bullard: It can be painful.

Wayne Marshall: It can.

Cecil Bullard: But yeah. I think it's a fantastic book. And I think. The E-Myth, obviously it's in my top 10. I'm not sure that now consider your strengths would be in my top 10, but might be in my top 50.

Cecil Bullard: Understanding what you do well and then doing it well and bringing other people in for the things that you don't do well. That's a hell of an investment.

Wayne Marshall: It, it is. I always, we both play sports and, grew up on those things, and it was in team scenarios, and there was roles I could fill very well in the football field or basketball court.

Wayne Marshall: If coach asked me to go guard the seven foot center, I'd give it my best, but my odds of success went way down. So it's also in those scenarios of understanding your team. Put him in the best position of success. That's why I like to talk about sports analogies when I talk to customers and clients. Yeah, no, and I, you get it on the team.

Cecil Bullard: I think sometimes you gotta guard the seven foot center. Because that's it. You're the, you're it, right? Yeah. And I did that. Sometimes you do. And it wasn't as successful. But we got through the game,

Wayne Marshall: I always loved telling the story that when I played football growing up, yeah, I'd go up against a guy across the line.

Wayne Marshall: He was bigger, stronger, but at least he knew I was there 'cause I was gonna just beat on him as much as I could. So I. I will let you read this

Cecil Bullard: one. Bill Murphy. Thank you for the question. Bill, do you recommend first training on profitable services? IE alignments breaks after giving them the knowledge putting a spiff together to increase bay and tech profitability.

Cecil Bullard: As long as you have the right tools to perform those services with the most productive ways, alignment machines can complete a 20 minute alignment compared to a machine that takes 40 to 50 minutes to complete. Invest in your equipment that will deliver them the best. I would tell you that I think our thought process in this particular area is flawed.

Cecil Bullard: I need to make everything in my shop profitable, so I understand that I might have a guy that's really great on alignments who can do a 20 minute alignment and we can charge $170 for whatever. And are. Gross profit on that is gonna be pretty good. But I think if you start looking at gross profit on jobs, you're gonna find that your alignment jobs are not necessarily the most profitable jobs that you're doing.

Cecil Bullard: I'm not saying they're not profitable. And that's not the point I'm making. I love the comment that I get now we're our least profitable jobs are diagnostics. Whoa. Wait a minute. I'm using my most expensive guy and my most expensive equipment and I'm the guy I'm gonna pay the most money.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And yet we're not profitable on that job because we're not estimating it properly. We're not accounting for the time properly, et cetera. And why not? Why are we not profitable as profitable when we do diagnostics, as when we do alignments? It's a management function. It's not

Wayne Marshall: right.

Cecil Bullard: It's not well, the customer refuses to pay for diag. We have lots of shops that earn, just as much money on diagnostics as they do on alignments. Yeah. And more frankly. Yes. And yes, I agree with you. If I've got somebody in my shop who's really good on alignments I probably don't want 'em out doing diagnostics if they're not good on diagnostics.

Cecil Bullard: For me, one of the, one of the cardinal rules of dispatch is never give a technician a job they're not qualified for, because what happens is three days later, the tech is frustrated. The owner of the car is frustrated and the service advisor, shop manager, whatever, is frustrated. We, everybody's frustrated and nobody's made any money.

Wayne Marshall: Yep,

Cecil Bullard: yep. And the customer's unhappy. So I don't, that's not what I'm talking about. I certainly don't want to dispatch jobs to people, but I, in my business, when I set my business up, I wanna make sure that when we are doing diag, that there's a profitability that I want to, and can and should get out of that I don't wanna do the job.

Cecil Bullard: If it's not gonna be profitable, then go do it somewhere else. I have to make every job in my business be profitable. And we know that some jobs are gonna be more profitable, there's gonna be more gross profit per hour and certain jobs than there are others. Throw a set of tires on in, 35 minutes and you're, you may make four or $500 and do a break job in 35 minutes, and you might make $200, depending on how you're estimating, et cetera.

Cecil Bullard: And it is a blend. That's the other factor here. I've got to take care of my client because I'm fearful, right? I'm very fearful my whole life I've been fearful Yeah. That somebody will try somebody else and they'll go I like him more than I like Cecil. And, or, they treated me better over here.

Cecil Bullard: I feel better. It's closer to my house, whatever. And so I don't want my client going somewhere else. For anything, frankly, once you're here and you love us I wanna supply what you need, right?

Wayne Marshall: Amen.

Cecil Bullard: And I want to do that profitably in my company, if at all possible, which also means that I've got an investment in tools and education, technical training with my people so that they know what to do and how to do the job and what to do when.

Cecil Bullard: I don't know what to do. Yeah. I, that's a question I usually ask in an interview. You've done everything, you've, you went through the book, you read everything. You did everything it told you, and you got to the end and the car's still not fixed. Now what do you do?

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: And what I don't want to hear is, oh I'll spend another three days. Working on this car, I'll get it figured out. No. What's the next step? Oh,

Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna call my friends and ask anybody, does anybody know a, I don't know, a Chrysler specialist on this stuff? Yeah, I can weeks, not a week goes by that I don't get a call or a message from one of our clients that says, Hey, we've got this price learner shop.

Cecil Bullard: We've got this Toyota, we've got this. This Mercedes, and we're having a struggle. Does anybody know of a really great Mercedes? Here's the best Mercedes guy I know, right? Yeah. Let's call that guy and have a conversation.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Because I don't want my tech digging in and spending three days on it that we can't get paid for.

Cecil Bullard: So I think. As the business changes and AI's gonna change us a bit the technology that we have is changing our industry. Yeah. The fact that we have these private equity companies coming in trying to buy up the industry is changing our business. That we have to get smarter and better about how we do business and how we're profitable.

Cecil Bullard: And as we do that, we create more value and we create more life. It that great question. Certainly if I have a a really good guy doing certain jobs I want to try to give them, but, every once in a while I probably have somebody else that needs to learn alignments. That might take two hours to do that alignment, but every once in a while I might. Need to funnel that alignment to that guy with the right mentor trainer in place to help him learn how to do those alignments and take 20 minutes instead of four hours.

Wayne Marshall: Gotta play the game. It's like sports.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: Practice. But until you do it,

Cecil Bullard: sometimes you gotta put your bench on to, to

Wayne Marshall: yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Give you bench, see what they experience, and see what they see, what they have got.

Wayne Marshall: See what they can do. A little bit of that stress test. Is it,

Cecil Bullard: I used to bring, I used to bring service managers in when I was growing my, my, my shops.

Cecil Bullard: And I would train 'em for two weeks. I would, or they'd have a trainer

Wayne Marshall: Yeah,

Cecil Bullard: mentor that literally, they were side by side for two weeks and then I'd call in and I'd just, the, in the morning I'd say, oh, geez, I'm really sorry. Something came up. I won't be in. So now the manager's there by himself.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I'd come in around one o'clock, hey, and I didn't do anything. Sat home,

Wayne Marshall: just,

Cecil Bullard: Just chilled out. You wanna see what would, because you can't kill my business in four hours, it is not gonna happen. And I remember one time I came in and the new service advisor manager was so excited.

Cecil Bullard: He is I sold this engine for $16,000 and this is back when engines were. Seven or eight. And I was like, wow, that's great. And the customer bought it. Yeah. And I looked at the estimate and they had tripled the cost of the engine. So the engine itself, we paid, I dunno, three grand for, yeah. And they sold it for 12.

Cecil Bullard: And I was like, oh, that's, ah, that's really great. Then I called the lady up that, that, that bought it and I said, good news. He overpriced the engine because he's relatively new.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: So it's gonna cost you about six grand less. And she was happy and I get to see what they can do.

Cecil Bullard: We have to stress test our people something. Yes. And see what happens.

Wayne Marshall: Yes.

Cecil Bullard: And I don't even know, I think when you're stress testing, you don't even want to be there. You really want. Them to have to rely on their own knowledge and decision making. And you never do that in a place where it's gonna, greatly.

Cecil Bullard: Where it could ruin your business. But yeah, I love to, I said

Wayne Marshall: four hours.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah, four hours. Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: You find out what you got,

Cecil Bullard: you pick up the pieces. Then another two weeks of training, then I would take a day off. Yeah. And then another two weeks of training and that's I love that. I love. I like putting people in positions where they need to think and they need to come up with solutions because they may not solve the problem the way that I would solve the problem, but if they can solve the problem and get to the same result and conclusion, and I think that's another thing about the difference between being a really good leader manager.

Cecil Bullard: And or a really good, I'm a great sales guy or I'm a great tech, is that I'm able to help other people learn how to solve problems themselves. And I'm looking at results and not at how they do the job. My dad was teaching me how to pull a radiator and he crawled under the car and put up. A bucket under it and pulled the pitcock.

Cecil Bullard: And then we stood there for 25 minutes and and then the next time I had to do a radiator, I was like, I'm not standing here for 25 minutes. So I put the bucket under, I pulled the lower radiator hose and my dad was like, you can't do it that way. You, that's not how we do it. We use the pitcock.

Cecil Bullard: And I was like, not me buddy. And by the way, I got the job done 25 minutes faster than you did, I think sometimes we need to be open to that in initiative. Are we getting the right result, the same result? And if we haven't defined the results we want, that might be one of the problems that we have.

Cecil Bullard: 'cause our team doesn't know what that is.

Wayne Marshall: I know I shared this on a previous short little lessons I was putting out on leadership, and one of the things I say is, sometimes we need to be listening and really working with our team because not all the best answers and solutions come from the front office, and we sometimes have a tendency to think that we gotta do.

Wayne Marshall: And if we listen and work with our team, you're gonna get great answers, great suggestions, and great things that can be done. Coming from the shop floor. Just as we talk about team, have those communications, build those things

Cecil Bullard: well and what, when we talk about having a great team, part of that is about communication and people won't plan a team where they don't feel like they have value or they can have input.

Cecil Bullard: They just won't, over time they'll completely lose interest and they won't be involved. And so we talk about having these communications and having team meetings and blah, blah, blah. And the owner's nobody will participate. Yeah, if you're gonna knock 'em every time they have an idea, if you're gonna say no or no, we gotta do it my way, or

Wayne Marshall: they

Cecil Bullard: quit

Wayne Marshall: talking.

Cecil Bullard: I, I would tell you that we need to sometimes actually do something that we know. Failed 10 years ago. We did it 10 years ago and it failed. Sometimes we need to let our team try it again because sometimes it works now. And even if it doesn't, they at least learn the lesson that it didn't, isn't gonna work.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Instead of saying, no, we won't do that. 'cause I tried it 10 years ago.

Wayne Marshall: Bill, thank you for our last question of the day. What time do you dedicate in training programs, mentorship for each employee, monthly, front and back shop staff? Is there a hard rule to follow? And any recommendations we have?

Wayne Marshall: I would tell you there is no hard rule to follow. Anything you do is gonna be better than doing nothing. And I think every employee's gonna be a little different. And I know when I had my staff, I would try to when I was at a different company and the old company I owned before I joined the institute.

Wayne Marshall: I would always encourage them to at least have a one hour every other week time with somebody in the industry or in a business that could help them with some of their own growth. I always tried to do it with someone that was outside and we all know people, and I know when I looked at some of the different people on my staff, I ended up talking to some of our different clients even who would then come back and I said, one of the guy happened to be a senior VP at Advance Auto, and I said, would you be willing to do this? And this is a program I wanna run. He goes, oh my God, I would love to give back a little to your company. So the biggest thing is just do something. Don't do nothing. Whatever you're gonna do, help do what needs to be done.

Cecil Bullard: I think too, you as part of the way that we pay technicians and or service size, literally anybody in the company. Part of that is we're trying to incentivize education, training and Right. And knowledge building. And in most of the pay plans that I would put together for shops, the technicians will have an eight to 12 hour a quarter training, meaning they're probably sitting in eight to 12 hour worth of training in any given quarter.

Cecil Bullard: Given 48 hours a year. A, a good week's worth of really good training and keeps them knowledgeable and growing and et cetera. Even for service advisors in their pay plans, I want to have some training as part of, if you get this training, if you. Learn new things, you're gonna get paid more money.

Cecil Bullard: 'cause I can do that.

Wayne Marshall: You're making yourself more valuable to the company.

Cecil Bullard: And I also say when you're talking about training and mentoring you're almost talking about two different things, right? Yes. If you're mentoring, you're, there's a training aspect to it.

Cecil Bullard: But training in and of itself doesn't necessarily include mentoring. If I hired a brand new, a tech that's, 55 years old and been in the industry for 30 years they're still gonna come in my company and have a mentor for a minimum of 30 days. Someone that they can go to ask questions, someone's gonna show 'em, where the bathroom is, where's the toilet paper if it'ss not in the bathroom, how do you have things?

Cecil Bullard: How do you clock in and out? Just the yes. The thing, oh, that's a machine I've never used. Can you show me how to use that machine? I wanna have someone that's their go-to and I used part of the pay that I would pay the employee, so I didn't pay 'em quite as much as I would until they were done with mentoring.

Cecil Bullard: So I always withheld two to $4 of their initial pay per hour and said, when you sign off on these things as sign off. Yeah. With your mentor, the two of you signed it off, then that money is currently going to the mentor. It now comes to you. There's your 30 day raise. Your 90 day raise because you've shown that you can do these things.

Cecil Bullard: And so I bel I believe that we should have mentoring and I believe that we should have a mentoring program and plan that's well thought out in our companies. For those positions, especially if we want to have two shops, three shops, four shops, or Oh

Wayne Marshall: my god,

Cecil Bullard: Build the,

Wayne Marshall: very much so

Cecil Bullard: The multi shop thing.

Cecil Bullard: So yeah.

Wayne Marshall: Guys, we want to thank and girls, sorry folks. We want to thank you for joining us today for Ask Us Anything. Look forward to seeing you again in the near future. Keep the questions coming. As you saw, if you've got something that we didn't address or you think of something after the fact, go ahead and email us at info at we are the institute.com.

Wayne Marshall: We'd be happy to follow up, share anything we can that can help and make this a better industry as we tell everybody we want to do. Thank you.

Cecil Bullard: Thank you for your time.

After leaving for college and returning unexpectedly, John worked his way from the shop floor into leadership, eventually purchasing the business in early 2024. He explains how focusing on KPIs, especially gross profit per hour, transformed profitability while maintaining transparency and trust with customers.They also discusses digital vehicle inspections, the real cost of running a shop, and why presenting full repair information matters more than winning every sale. John closes with his vision for scaling to $4–5 million and opening a second location while elevating employees and the industry as a whole.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Guest(s):

Johnathan White, Owner of Phil's Pro Auto Service

Show Highlights:

[00:02:05] – First car memory restoring a 1970 Datsun 240Z.

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Jimmy Lea : Hello, friends. This is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Jonathan White. Jonathan Jonathan is with Bills Pro Auto Service out of Greeley, Colorado. Jonathan, how the heck are you, brother?

Johnathan White : I'm doing pretty good. Pretty unusually warm for winter. It is, isn't it? It's so weird. Are you. Have you had.

Jimmy Lea : Any snow yet?

Johnathan White : Yeah, like a dusting here. And then where I live, just a little bit north, we got, like, four inches. That's it.

Jimmy Lea : And is it gone now? It's already melted.

Johnathan White : Yeah. I mean, the next day.

Jimmy Lea : But yeah, we melted by lunch. We've had three dusting, but nothing serious. Nothing that's going to keep you out of school. Yeah, it's it's really weird. It's really weird. Now, Jonathan, I've known you as Jonathan for a very long time, and I noticed that you are have your name badge on. And you are John. Are you John White?

Johnathan White : I do go by John. Yeah. I only got the name Jonathan, when I was younger, when I was in trouble, so. Well, John, you are not.

Jimmy Lea : You are not in trouble, brother. I am so excited for you to be here with me today, so we can have just this awesome conversation about about you, about your business, about where you've come up from in the industry. And you are not in trouble. Is that okay?

Johnathan White : Sounds good.

Jimmy Lea : Good, good. So what I'm looking for here, Jonathan, to start our conversation. The automotive industry is such a wonderful industry to be in. There's so much opportunity for many people of many different walks. And I'd love to go back in your story. And in fact, I don't even know. I want to know how you got into the business first yet.

Jimmy Lea : But I do want to know what is your first car memory that hooked you? What is that moment? That mentor or that problem that you solved on a car? That said, oh, I like.

Johnathan White : This.

Johnathan White : Yeah. So at our, our older location, when I was growing up, because I grew up in the industry, there was a 1970 Datsun to 40 Z. And, I had the pleasure of taking two cars into one car and shot.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, that's an awesome car, dude.

Johnathan White : It was, it was a lot of fun sanding it, priming it all that stuff.

Jimmy Lea : You went for the full resto restoration?

Johnathan White : Yeah, when I was. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Okay. How old were you?

Johnathan White : 12 to 16. Wow.

Jimmy Lea : This is a four year love story. Yeah. Do you still have the car?

Johnathan White : I don't know now. Got rid of it. Yeah. I was cleaning out the back barn, basically, which had two of these that my dad had acquired over the years, and one of them was wrecked and the other one wasn't, and one had a bad motor and the other one didn't. And so that's kind of kind of the story with that.

Jimmy Lea : So I'm guessing the wrecked one had a good motor. Yeah. The good motor went into the.

Johnathan White : The other one. Well what.

Jimmy Lea : What color did you paint your.

Johnathan White : Truck. It was that orange color that you.

Jimmy Lea : The 1970s disco.

Johnathan White : Orange. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Jimmy Lea : Dude, that is so rad. What year was this car again?

Johnathan White : 1970

Jimmy Lea : 70. My mother graduated high school in 69. She graduated college in 73. Two, three, three. And her graduation present was to be, 243.

Johnathan White : This is this is a cool car. Back then, it was really cool. All right. Next to it in the barn was also a 1967, Mercury Cougar. Oh, so with a 427 coverage jet engine in it. The barely fit.

Jimmy Lea : No doubt. Do you still have it? Is it still in the barn?

Johnathan White : That so? That was my. That was my dad's baby. And, he sold that. He never drove it. So I always wanted to fix it up more and then got rid of it. I want to say 20.

Johnathan White : 2013 ish. Somewhere around there, he felt that it was never getting used and it was just sitting in the back. So. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : What good is it as a paperweight? Who enjoys that? You enjoyed the memory of it. You've got it in your collection. But I, I agree, I agree. Yeah. Get it out there into the world. Let people enjoy it. So what was it like growing up around the family business?

Johnathan White : Be honest, it was pretty terrible. As with a lot of the automotive trade, you have a bunch of technicians that get into the business that don't really have business knowledge, and they don't know what they don't know, and they don't run it necessarily correct it correctly. So, that was rough. I mean, the shop was my babysitter.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, ouch.

Johnathan White : I grew up, you know, every summer I was at the shop all day, every day. Because that was where, you know, my parents could afford childcare. And when I was younger, that's that's why I went.

Jimmy Lea : Wow, dude. So, the shop was cheaper than daycare. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. And and you're talking about pops?

Johnathan White : Yep.

Jimmy Lea : Pops was a phenomenal technician, but just lacked the business acumen.

Johnathan White : Yep, yep. And, he took training and stuff like that. And the problem is, he was bad about understand the problem, but he never would implement solutions. It is a lot of other things, right? I'm not. Yeah, that there was things that just the business side of it running profitably. Things like that, but wasn't there. So I really grew up to disdain the shop.

Johnathan White : I didn't like it. Then when I turned 18, I left town and got away.

Jimmy Lea : Nice. Where'd you go? What'd you do?

Johnathan White : I went to CSU's, studied engineering and business, and had friends graduating with degrees with thousands of dollars debt. And luckily, I had gotten some scholarships and stuff like that and saved up money through working, through high school and stuff like that, that I didn't have a lot of debt. And, I basically couldn't get a job, went to work at the shop as a fallback and kind of never left.

Johnathan White : So.

Jimmy Lea : Oh my word. So you're, you have an engineering degree and a business degree.

Johnathan White : I do not have an engineering degree. I oh, I was a engineering major. I got to statics and kind of didn't like that. And so I had the business minor that turned into a major.

Jimmy Lea : Very good. Yeah, I my business calculus class and business trigonometry was like. What?

Johnathan White : I can see it. I can put my hands on it. I can understand it. It was the, very abstract, you know, imagine force vector on this imaginary thing. And it's, it was it was something that I was struggling with. So I'm really good with seeing a problem and being able to touch the problem and figuring it out that way.

Johnathan White : So, and that's kind of where my love for cars came from. And, I started working at the shop and went up through the ranks, and then I started racing and.

Jimmy Lea : Whoa, hold the hold the phone. I didn't know you had a racing career. Are you serious?

Johnathan White : That was with,

Jimmy Lea : Would you race with NASA?

Johnathan White : And, were you driving? Yep. Dude, I did, time trials and I also did, autocross and I was super competitive locally, not so much nationally. There's a lot of really good drivers that show up to the nationals, like, props showed up one year. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of very good talent.

Johnathan White : Show up. And so I would kind of usually get my, get wiped off.

Jimmy Lea : You get your booty kicked. Pretty.

Johnathan White : Much. Oh my gosh. But it was a it was a really good learning experience. Obviously, I, I was constantly at the shop tinkering with the car after hours and things like that. So, and I always enjoyed conquering the problem and figuring stuff out. So yeah, I kind of just grew up with, through the, through the shop and can grow and learn more about the business and then I eventually took over the business.

Jimmy Lea : So what's that point? What's the point where you you you're welcome back to reality and you learn that lesson that you go from working in the shop to leading the shop.

Johnathan White : Right? So that's, one that takes a lot of personal growth. And I'm still working on that, leadership aspect. I know that's a deficiency of mine, but, I'm really good with numbers and, and all that aspect. So I've been able to grow the shop a lot. And luckily I've been able to hire well and have a good team in that regard.

Jimmy Lea : The team is so important, isn't it? The team is so important. And numbers come easy to you. Is that from your, engineering background, or is that more.

Johnathan White : I'm always in the background. Yeah. So I've always been really good with math. So. Okay, that's one of the subjects that really came easy to me. So I just, I always like numbers and diving in the numbers and figuring out what they equal and how to manipulate them to get the result I want and things like that.

Johnathan White : I've always enjoyed. So. Oh, that's so awesome. You know, the, companies that have come out that provide a lot of data where you can dig into things, how manipulate data. I've always really enjoyed where I can, I can kind of go down a rabbit hole of looking at numbers sets and figuring out medians and, you know, all the KPIs that we study as a, as a business.

Jimmy Lea : Yeah. What are some of those KPIs that you like to dig into that you what's a daily that you look at. And then a weekly and and then definitely the monthly. So we've got three different areas that you're looking at. Because a lot of shop owners really don't pay attention to the numbers. But once a month or maybe when it's time for payroll, what's that daily KPI, the weekly, what do you look at.

Johnathan White : Yeah. So we have a weekly, target goal of what we want to hit as far as sales per per week. But we also look at, you know, average row, median row, which is way different. GP per hour is probably the biggest one more so than GP percentages. You know, average quote hours per hour. So, close ratio.

Johnathan White : Okay. Yeah. Those are the probably the big ones I really watch.

Jimmy Lea : And you're watching this on the weekly basis.

Johnathan White : I know I watch it every day.

Jimmy Lea : Oh is that okay. This is the daily.

Johnathan White : So every week I review where we're at and kind of have like a report card for the week. Yes.

Jimmy Lea : Yep. And where do you pull this data from.

Johnathan White : So the data gets pulled out of my shop management system. But I use, Octo Rocket to go deep diving down the rabbit hole. If I really, you know, see, like a tech quote that's off base. So where we normally end up or it's too high to low, I'll look into each individual ticket. I'll you know, look into what our close ratio was on those tickets.

Johnathan White : Figure out where we can improve. You know, our problem with our industry. Right now is it's a good problem. But most cars are getting a higher mileage Iron age, which means you're having higher and higher tech quotes because cars are getting worn out. And then we we build up everything. We present everything. But you have to be very careful how you present that, especially to a new customer.

Johnathan White : You don't want to blow them out of the water, but I still find that we still need to present that because I don't want to. Only, you know, oh, well, all this other stuff, well, you know, the lack of maintenance and stuff. We'll just brush it off to the side. Well, when we present the big stuff, because there's the problem with that.

Johnathan White : You get into that pattern of, or you're only going to do the big things or what they need right now. It's not serving the client correctly. It's not it's not giving them the right information. And then you also have them come back a time and time again. Every time they come back, you have a new list. Yes. And then then it gets to the point where they feel like they're just being raked over the coals every time they come in.

Johnathan White : So I'd rather lose the sale and make sure I presented the information to where I feel like I presented all the options. Then. Then trying to sugarcoat it and, you know, to win the sale.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, I totally agree. You definitely don't want to sugarcoat anything and just think of it as your own health. When you walk out of a doctor's office, you want to know everything. You want to know all the good, the bad, the warts, the moles, the everything. And then you can make a decision on how you want to proceed with what you're doing.

Jimmy Lea : Do you want to take this medication or you want to change your lifestyle and eat better, or whatever the exercise more and be better conscious of your nutrition? And with a vehicle, with a car, you're right. If if every time I come to you it's like $3,000, $3,000, $3,000. Wait a second, man, I put more into this car than it's worth.

Jimmy Lea : Well, yeah, you have, but look at your car. It's really good. But as a consumer, I'm really feeling the weight of drive Swiss cheese here. This is such a bad vehicle. There's so many holes in it. At what point do I go, hey, John. John,

Jimmy Lea : Do I really keep this car anymore?

Johnathan White : Well, that's all government conversation that you really have to have. And I think that's one thing on the flip side that our industry as independents do really well compared to dealerships, because we're not we're here to serve the client and inform the client and present the the options to them versus, you know, bumping up car counts so high that we're just turning and burning rapidly.

Jimmy Lea : Yeah. We don't want to be a number. We don't want to be a statistic. We don't want to be a cog in that machine. And dealerships, if they took the same approach that we do in the automotive aftermarket. Oh my gosh, we would have a challenge.

Johnathan White : Right? But this.

Jimmy Lea : Well and to that point, John to John, man, I keep on and call you Jonathan. John. To that point, what's some of the things that's more complex, than outsiders realize? What's some of that things that, that customers don't see, that's the hardest things for you to manage as a shop owner?

Johnathan White : Well, as a business, you are there to generate profit, right? You don't come to work, to work, a job, come to you, generate a profit for the business and make it financially make sense to own a business. There's a lot of risks with having a business. So at the end of the day, it makes sense to have that business.

Johnathan White : So in order to run it profitably, you have to charge what you need to charge. And there are a lot of customers don't really understand, you know, new alignment machines, 30 grand, a new alignment racks, 30 grand, you know. Yeah. You can get some of the stuff cheaper and get what you pay for in an aspect.

Johnathan White : But scan tools again, you got $10,000 here, another $5,000 here or $5,000 here. Plus you have all the subscriptions every year. You're $1,500 here or $1,500 here. You got your point of sale system here. You got your credit card fees, which, you know, 2.3%, whatever it ends up being. You know, if you process, let's say, hypothetically, $1 million in a year on a credit cards.

Johnathan White : I mean, that adds up pretty quick. All that stuff adds up into, as a business, we have, on average, higher overheads than a lot of other businesses, which means that we have to run that overhead. And obviously we're limited by production. We only have so many hours in the day. So, there's a lot of those factors that especially on a like short month, like last month, that how running that overheads a lot more difficult than the longer month.

Johnathan White : So, it's just a balancing act between customer expectations and then what actual shop goals we need to be and where they need to be. So balancing act more or less is probably the hardest thing with a customer point of view.

Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah, it's so true. It's so true. And and you bring up a really, really good point. How do you go from a 22 day month. And we're talking business days that you're open and buy. How many days are you open.

Johnathan White : John I make it even more difficult because we're only open four days a week.

Jimmy Lea : Okay? Four days a week. So the normal business day would go from a 22 day week down to an 18 day week, and you're going to go from a 20 day down to 16. Are you done?

Johnathan White : It was 14 last month.

Jimmy Lea : Was 14 last month.

Johnathan White : Because we were closed also the Friday after Thanksgiving. So yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Oh man. Yeah that that's that that is pretty tight brother.

Johnathan White : That's we got it done.

Jimmy Lea : But yeah you do. Yeah you do. So, What? You're right. People just don't understand the all the intricacies that go into this industry. And and not only do we have labor, we have parts, and we have parts that we need to do markup. But why? Why markup my parts? Well, because I got a warranty. I got a guarantee it if you're going to come back and say it broke and it truly did, well, then I need to be able to afford to be able to replace it.

Jimmy Lea : Otherwise you won't be bringing it back to me because I won't be here right? And the public doesn't understand that always. What? What is some, training, coaching or industry communities that have helped you, grow in your ownership? Leadership position? Who or what made that biggest impact on you?

Johnathan White : So I've been part of elite. My dad was part of them is they got a lot of good information from them. A lot of it I ended up using. He just never made that change.

Jimmy Lea : It was hard for him to implement. It wasn't a muscle he had developed. Right?

Johnathan White : Correct. Yeah. He he expected different results with the same inputs. And yeah.

Jimmy Lea : We know that doesn't really.

Johnathan White : Work. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Is this back in the days when, Bob Cooper was there?

Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah, he was in actually, Bob Cooper's, the Tony groups, the.

Jimmy Lea : He he's a he's a star. I love Bob, and I could sit and listen to him for days.

Johnathan White : Right. He's a great public speaker. So phenomenal.

Jimmy Lea : Totally agree.

Johnathan White : Training with. You know, Lee, I had, I went to some training with Rick White. I did some training with you guys, and I also, did training for which outfits? So nice. They all have, good things, to, to say and and implement and things to listen to. Everybody has a different perspective. Truth.

Johnathan White : I think it's a good thing to sample and see what, what works out best for you. Because what works for one person may not be the style or approach that you need for the next person.

Jimmy Lea : They're it's true, it's true. Everybody needs a coach. And at some point you're going to outgrow the coach, right? And you're probably going to need to change. And that's one of the beautiful things I love about the Institute. I've got 16 different coaches right now. So if you if you outgrow one coach, I've got other coaches that really excel in areas of marketing or really excel in areas of getting your finances ready for, garage model or shop efficiencies, if that's what you're looking for.

Jimmy Lea : So it allows you to switch from coach to coach to coach to coach. Right. And at some point, you probably learn everything that we could possibly teach you from a one on one coaching point. And now it's time to get into a group. Have you ever been in a mastermind group environment?

Johnathan White : Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's good to give back in that regard. Where you're not necessarily the one getting on, but you're giving. Yes. I, I believe in that servitude that it's important to get back. So, I mean, that's what I'm currently doing. So I actually am an assistant coach right now. Congrats.

Johnathan White : So that's mine with shop picks. Yep. Congrats, bro. That's awesome. It's nice to be able to get a different perspective, different coaching style. You know, sometimes, I mean, even when I joined, I was resistant to some of the changes that I needed to do. And it took it just took this one extra class that I took that wasn't even the required class.

Johnathan White : It was just a mindset class. And that's really what flipped the needle for me. You never know when your breakthrough is going to happen, but the coaching group and a lot of it, you get out what you put into it. So if you're resisting change or you don't listen or that doesn't work here, that's not my market or whatever excuse you want to come up with.

Johnathan White : You're only going to you're only going to reach a certain level. And I've, you know, as a, as a assistant coach, a lot of the times it's, it's easier to train the people that are kind of at the, at their, their end of their rope. They, you know, they don't have anywhere else down to go. They can only go kind of up versus the people that come into the coaching that they're doing.

Johnathan White : All right. And it could be better. And that's where I was when I joined. And I didn't really want to listen for a while and oh my.

Jimmy Lea : Gosh, isn't that wild.

Johnathan White : And then I had that mindset class and something about that class flipped the switch. And then we we grew 700,001 year. Hallelujah. Something like that.

Jimmy Lea : So the mindset is is very strong. It's very strong. And once you're able to flip that switch, man, it does change everything. Congratulations. That's I'm that's that's beautiful brother. That yeah. There's there's so much beauty that comes from what you've just shared. And a lot of people don't get it. They don't understand it. And do you know Ron Hagan, Des Moines?

Jimmy Lea : He's from Des Moines, Iowa. He had West Side Auto pro, he sold his business, moved to Mexico.

Johnathan White : That sounds pretty, but I'm bad with names. I'm better.

Jimmy Lea : I'll bet. When? When we're done, you can look them up on Facebook. You'd be like, oh, yeah, I know, I know that guy. Ron Haugen was, I've been in very similar situation. He was at the end of his rope. He had two bays. He had a tech, and and he was he went to a training and it was back in the day Arlo with Blake.

Jimmy Lea : Bottom line impact group. And he signed up for the the he signed up for the program and it was a one year commitment. He's like hey look this is sink or swim. I am in the deep end. My nose is underwater. I'm going to drown. So this either has to work or I'm going to pack up my toolbox, head to the dealership because, I'm I'm I'm one more month away from total bankruptcy.

Jimmy Lea : And he got into that coaching and training group, and he says, I don't care what you tell me to do, I'm going to do it. Because what I have done so far has gotten me what I where I am today. So you tell me, I need to paint the front door pink. I'm going to paint it pink.

Johnathan White : Right?

Jimmy Lea : Whatever you tell me, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And it was for him an immediate turnaround. He grew and grew and grew and grew and grew a beautiful, successful business that he has since sold off to his, general manager. And now Ron lives in Mexico, and he travels back and forth and does things every once in a while.

Jimmy Lea : But man, I, I do this definitely enjoying retirement. So that mindset is that last bit of, oh my gosh, it's sink or swim.

Johnathan White : Great. And the other thing is like, you can people can listen from the outside in, you know, all the all they care about is, you know, as the owners grow on their business or, you know, being financially better, blah, blah, blah. But you know, the, the thing that comes with making the business better. Yes. A lot of times it brings up the employees too.

Johnathan White : Yes, the lives of the your employees as a direct result of the business improving. You're you're providing more function and you'll stay ability you're better able to offer better benefits. You're able to offer more room for them to grow potentially, you know, especially when you get into the people that had a single location and they weren't doing that well.

Johnathan White : And then that became really well. And then they opened, you know, two, three, four locations next. Now there's room for those people to grow, not just being technicians to the ability to to be, you know, the the general foreman for multiple stores where they drop into a store that loses a tech for a day. You know, there's there's more to it than just the business doing better and the, the owner making more money per se.

Jimmy Lea : You are correct. And in two things with the institute. One is our, our mission, our vision, our our statement, our mantra, our marching band. We are here to build a better business, provide a better life and a better industry. And so I say these three in that order, build a better business. It helps you as the shop owner, helps you build a better business because you can't feed people from empty shelves.

Jimmy Lea : You've got to have profit. You've got to have the funds to be able to give better business results in a better life. Yeah, it's a better life for you as a business owner. It's a better life for your service advisors and your technicians because you can provide better benefits, more benefits for one case health, vision, dental, time off, vacations.

Jimmy Lea : But not only is it a better life for you and your service advisors and your managers and your technicians, it's also a better life for your spouse and your children and your service advisors, spouses or children and their technicians, spouse and and children. It's a better life for everybody. The ripple effect of having a better business. How can you count it right?

Jimmy Lea : You how can you count that? And then that. As an institute, we're here to lock arms so that we as an industry, we elevate the entire industry.

Johnathan White : Right.

Jimmy Lea : Better industry.

Johnathan White : Yep, I agree, I love it.

Jimmy Lea : If you were to describe your shop today, your mission, your vision, your why, what does that look like to you? How do you describe that to somebody?

Johnathan White : Yep. So our mission statement is Building community trust one repair at a time. I love it. So, want to be known as the most transparent shop, the most reliable shop. And, that's basically our mission goal is to to do that. So and I think our, our, Google reviews reflect upon that. Now, are we perfect? No.

Johnathan White : Do we screw up, make mistakes? Yep, definitely. But it's how we handle those mistakes.

Jimmy Lea : Stand up. Own it. Eat that crow while it's warm. Because the longer you wait, the worse it gets.

Johnathan White : Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : So, you talk about transparency. What are some of the the means, the method, the methods, the mediums. What are you using or doing to provide that transparency with your clients? Your customers?

Johnathan White : Yep. So I'm a big believer in digital vehicle inspections.

Jimmy Lea : I love devices, love devices. What are you using? What do you do.

Johnathan White : So we actually use we use tech metrics, internal DVI tool. Nice. And so it works. Works fine. I think as far as, like a customer, it's perspective. Because I've been on a lot of different point of sale systems. I think software is probably one of the best as far as the vehicle experience inspection aspect.

Johnathan White : Is there's other issues I had with it. So that's kind of why we moved to tech. But I think as a whole, whatever point of sale you're using, you should have some sort of digital inspection. It just allows a lot more trust. It makes the sale easier. You can do video, pictures, PDFs. I mean, we upload all our scan results to it.

Johnathan White : It it also allows the, you know, to be able to dispel some of the ever since, you know.

Jimmy Lea : Ever since you touched my car, ever since you touched my truck.

Johnathan White : Yeah. And you know, the people, unfortunately, they get buyers almost more. So they spend a lot of money. There's they they start getting in their own head, and then they start thinking about everything. And. Well, I'm going to, you know, as the industry as a whole, we have a not so great reputation. So that's where a lot of the blame ends up falling on.

Johnathan White : So DVS help with that, because if you take a required under car picture, every car. And they said, well, you know, you did my front end repairs and now I have an oil leak. It's like, no, what the. We had that picture and we even wrote a note about it the last time you were in. But more so than that, it's it's being able to provide that trust with that customer.

Johnathan White : Like, here's, here's our testing results. This is exactly what we tested. We were testing for a, GM that's got a variable valve timing fault, and it's got a basically a bad intake, actuator solenoid and we found that the OAM rating for factory is 10 to 12 and it's at 16. Well there you go. There's proof that that part is what's bad.

Johnathan White : So rather than you know you pay me a diag there's just a diag line. And then there's a repair line. Why. As a yes as as a consumer. Why why did it why did I pay that. What did you find. Why are we doing this repair. The other thing that it helps with us is say we, you know, we fix something.

Johnathan White : Unfortunately, with modern vehicles, sometimes they can have a check engine light come on after repairs, after so many miles because it finally ram this other monitor. Well, we fixed a drivability fault, but then the check engine light came back on later, you know, 20, 30 miles later. And it's got to me. That felt good. Well was it never ran that.

Johnathan White : So it's not the same code so we can fall back on our data. That code wasn't there prior. Now it is, you know, hey we need to look into this different system. It just allows us also if we, if we fix something. And now the parts, it's failed again. Same fault. Did we miss anything on our Dag?

Johnathan White : Did we miss a step or do we have a defective part?

Jimmy Lea : Yeah.

Johnathan White : And this day. And age parts aren't what they used to be. And, it's not uncommon to to get a part, but failed. And you did everything right. But, having that data to fall back on is is extremely valuable. It's paramount. Yeah. Even for not just the customer perspective. Are you.

Jimmy Lea : Able to. And you bring up a really good point here. The parts aren't the same as what they used to be. Are you able to test any of these parts before you install to say, oh, you know what? This is good. I know it's going to be good or.

Johnathan White : Yeah. So, like, ratings and some of that stuff. But I mean, can you test the thermostat before you put it in. Yeah. Yes. Ish. But then I'm not really. How much time are you spending testing to verify that part's good before you put it in there then does that how can you justify that cost? So it's just like figuring out what, you know, parts do you like and what parts seem to work well for you.

Johnathan White : And we use more and more OEM parts than we historically used to. And there's certain things that I will only get OEM unless it's not an option. Electrical being the big one. Yeah. But it's you have to figure out for yourself what what quality of repairs you're comfortable with. And obviously, you know, parts play a big factor in that.

Johnathan White : So what's totally does what's really does.

Jimmy Lea : So for for my mother that's listening to this because she does and she doesn't understand OEM. What is the OEM.

Johnathan White : Original equipment manufacturer. Yes I know yes. Which is an original equipment source. So OEM would be like getting a Toyota water pump. Oh yes. Would be getting an ace and water pump because they are the supplier for that water pump too, just as I said, a Toyota on the box. So we use a lot of OS and OEM parts.

Jimmy Lea : You order enough that you can go direct to the manufacturer.

Johnathan White : Yeah. So like like they said is and water pumps we use all to. Yeah. So if I could get and there's certain manufacturers that if I could get more of them more reliable, I'd be a lot happier. But, there's a distributor that's unfortunately about an hour away from me that, sometimes turnaround requirements for customer means that I don't get to use those parts.

Jimmy Lea : Dang. Because they don't run a delivery vehicle out to you. But once a week type of deal.

Johnathan White : They run it? No, they run it twice a day. It's just, you know, a lot of customers. So slower only means of transportation, you know, getting that. Oh yeah. Even with Loaners, you know, we only have so many loaners. It's it's balancing again. What repair am I happy with versus what I want versus customer expectations and.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, it totally.

Johnathan White : It's all it's all the scale, slide scale and balancing act constantly for all that.

Jimmy Lea : It is, it is. And you're right. I mean for many people their vehicle is the most expensive item that they purchase. For those that own a home, I'm going to say the home is the most expensive thing that they'll ever purchase. But for many, it's a vehicle. It's their vehicle, it's the car. And they only have one, right?

Jimmy Lea : I only have one if I don't have my car. I'm, using Uber or Lyft or I'm relying on, my wife to give me around or, the kid's got a teenage car, so sometimes I have to borrow that if if my car's in the shop. But, yeah, it is the single vehicle of the family.

Johnathan White : Right. And and most people only have one. I mean, it's rare. Yeah. Or they have, you know, to or, you know, an extra if the wife and husband have a, you know, their own vehicles because they go to each go to different jobs, then yeah, they have an extra. That's pretty rare anymore. That it is. Even with a kid having the extra, it's they still need to get places.

Johnathan White : They got to get to school. The parents can't take them because their job starts at eight, you know? Yep. It's again why we have to constantly balance of where we would like the repair to be versus what's possible by time frame. Yeah. So the more the more you specialize, the more you can dictate. I feel that the repairs this, and that's the only option.

Johnathan White : But there's a point where you're just saying no to the group and, customers, you know, are. Am I much different than my competitors? I'd like to say yes. But at the same time, if I tell them I'm a week out, can they go elsewhere and probably get a decent repair? Yeah. Yeah. So saying no constantly and telling them, you know, they're not my customer.

Johnathan White : They're not this. Yeah. There's a point where they aren't your customer and and that. But you're losing a lot of opportunity. And that's what this industry is built on is opportunity cost. So you have to find your line of where you're saying yes to the right, right mindset and my yeah people. And then where you do draw your line and everybody's going to be a little different on that.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true, so true. Every shop is different. Every footprint is different. Every operation is different. And I've had the distinct pleasure of traveling all over North America, visiting shops. And I love it. What does your shop shop look like today, John? What? How many bays? Live service advisors, technicians.

Johnathan White : So we have a lot of room for growth ability. Our biggest limitation will be parking. But I have 11 days and six techs.

Jimmy Lea : Phenomenal. That's great. What's the property? How much?

Johnathan White : Properties like, it's a quarter of an acre, and the building is going to say 12,000ft². Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : So it's not it's not a huge it's not a big, humongous piece of land that you can park cars for a week, a month.

Johnathan White : No. Now we only have parking for 25 cars and we do have maybe 30. Yeah, about 30. We do about 25 cars a day. So we don't have a lot of wiggle room with parking. When we're, you know, waiting on parts and stuff like that. So that's a big reason that we have to get cars done efficiently and timely, because we just don't have the the space for it.

Johnathan White : And then you get in the snow season and then the snow pile takes up one parking spot and then you get enough snow. You have two spots that are down and oh yeah. So actually and we have our loaners. So right. Loaners being out because then it means I have a parking spot for their car. So I encourage the young loners to get used.

Jimmy Lea : Nice. That's good. So have you ever thought of a blowtorch for those piles of snow?

Johnathan White : Right. I just thought.

Jimmy Lea : Luckily, we are facing.

Johnathan White : The right direction. If you live in a place that gets snow, you know that if your driveway faces north, you're doomed for months on end. Right.

Jimmy Lea : That's a lot of salt you're throwing down. Yeah.

Johnathan White : Luckily, our building and main parking lot does face, south and the other side is a little on the west side. So we are lucky that we get a lot of sun exposure, so it does melt the snow pretty quickly. Being in a sunny state can be zero degrees, but sunny and still melting the snow, so that is beneficial.

Johnathan White : But still. Yeah, sometimes the biggest issue here is, is parking 100%.

Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah. You know. Yeah. Absolutely. Parking because, I'm thinking with the 11 bays, even if you were to double stack, which is difficult, there's a lot of pushing cars around. If you're double stacking every day, you just got to turn, turn, turn, turn, turn. You got to be quick and efficient on getting a minute out.

Johnathan White : Yep.

Jimmy Lea : That's awesome. So, I noticed that Phil's Pro Auto Service has been the recipient of a very distinguished. Very distinguished, accolade in being voted the best auto repair in Greeley for eight years in a row. This. What do you think that has gone into that that earned you that reputation?

Johnathan White : Yeah. So like I said, my dad wasn't great at running a business, but he did do one thing, right. He made sure the car was fixed. Right. The first time. It was a big mama, you know, thing that he pushed and, you know, taking care of the customer, having that communication. They're not just a number. We're taking care of the client or explaining to the client the repairs if they have questions were there.

Johnathan White : So if, you know, talking to a client, if realistically it takes 30 minutes to get them to understand the repair and what we need to do and why we need to do it, and that's what we do. So he really instilled that, and I've been able to fix the numbers side of the business, you know, as far as profitability, but still continue on doing fixing the repair.

Johnathan White : Right. Taking care of the client. So, again, very perfect. No, but we, we, you know, trying to be at that 99%.

Jimmy Lea : Point. It sounds like pops had the same mentality that my father had in teaching me, if you don't have time to get it done right the first time, you won't have time to get it right the second time. Correct? So dad gets it done right the first time or as close as possible. So congratulations to you and to your pops.

Jimmy Lea : Because he set the foundation, you were able to come in and refine the process, the procedure, get the profit where it needed to be, the KPIs in place at the point of sale system in place. That's phenomenal, I love that. Congratulations, John. That is so cool. So at what point is it that you took over operations?

Johnathan White : So I've been a I was the general manager slash lead advisor for 20 since 2015. And I really started to push changes 2017 to 19. And then I became the full owner actually beginning of 2024. Last year.

Jimmy Lea : I was congratulations.

Johnathan White : John. Son of the business. So.

Jimmy Lea : So is dad out or is he still coming in?

Johnathan White : He's officially retired as of his requirement was we need to keep him on at all. This year until.

Jimmy Lea : Till Jan one?

Johnathan White : No, until, actually, our 40th anniversary. So 40th anniversary was August 1st. And that's was his retirement. Hey, hey.

Jimmy Lea : Congratulations, pops. Way to go. And good for you, John. That's that's awesome, bro. That's so cool.

Johnathan White : Yeah. So. And my big thing was getting, manager to basically allow me to not be in day to day operations. For before he was 100% retired because he handled, like, payroll and some of the bookkeeping aspects, so. Right. That was, a struggle on itself. I think finding finding a manager is probably one of the more difficult things I've had to do.

Johnathan White : It's it's hard to hand it off and it's hard to, you know, you do things a certain way and understanding that they may do things a little bit differently. And so having that, you know, these are your goals and this is what I want to see. And how you get there necessarily doesn't matter as long as the end result is what I need it to be.

Jimmy Lea : And it's interesting. It is a difficult conversation to have because, you, you hold it so close. We as a as a leadership at in the business, we hold it so close. We want it done a certain way. And now we understand why it is that pop said no, no, no, because I said so.

Johnathan White : Right.

Jimmy Lea : And you're like, well, now I got to be able to explain it to somebody else. So we got to figure this one out.

Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah. That's probably was one of the more difficult things I've had to do in my years.

Jimmy Lea : So yeah, yeah for sure. So congrats on on buying the business from pops. That is super cool. 40th anniversary. Are we going to keep it as Phil's pro Phil states.

Johnathan White : As Phil's product. But I was.

Jimmy Lea : Going to ask, when are we going to change it to John's Pro out of service.

Johnathan White : Now? I mean, to him it's,

Jimmy Lea : Don't need to.

Johnathan White : Don't need to. And changing your business name and dealing with Google and all the online sources and.

Jimmy Lea : Rebranding back up.

Johnathan White : Or rebranding. No. Thank you.

Jimmy Lea : That's so tough.

Johnathan White : If you need to. And the the images back then that would make sense. But, great scenario. That is not the case. Agreed.

Jimmy Lea : So let's fast forward 3 to 5 years. What does winning look like for Phil's pro out of service. We looking at one elite location or you looking at multiple shop operations?

Johnathan White : Yep. So I'd like to get this location coming along between 4 and 5 million year. We're currently do 3.3 this year. That's. And then I'd like to have a second location on the west side of town. So we're currently on the east side, so we're basically Eighth Avenue. And I'd like to do one probably out at like 71st Avenue ish.

Johnathan White : And really just the west side of town, which is growing rapidly. If you've been to Northern Colorado, it's all kind of the cities are all kind of merging at this point in time. They really.

Jimmy Lea : Are. You're looking so much more like Los Angeles. Every day is just a high, high altitude Los Angeles.

Johnathan White : So that's that's ideally where I'd like to be in the next like 3 to 5. It's kind of been my goal. So that's what we're working towards.

Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. Congratulations. So when you get this current shop up into the 4 or 5 6 million, where does that put your efficiencies at.

Johnathan White : So we currently run my technicians average between the whole shop versus ours. They're here and hours worked where right now at 105%.

Jimmy Lea : Congrats that's all.

Johnathan White : We are very efficient in that regard. I the biggest, hurdle I have is just the way the building's designed to put another tech in. I like to, to have techs where they have the ability to have a second bay, because we all know that a parts issue happens or something comes up and you really need that extra, availability versus one tech in every bay is the most efficient model as far as as throughput, potential store capacity.

Johnathan White : But I do like having, where they have that ability to have another bay. So I really need to blow out a wall and add another tech or add another bay.

Jimmy Lea : A single bay, or would you add more than a single? Oh, you're on a quarter acre. How are you going to do that?

Johnathan White : So I have the ability inside the building to basically basically make a double stack. And well, my other tech already has a double stack, so if I can do that, then I get I have the ability to add another tech without much of an issue.

Jimmy Lea : And when you talk a double stack, I'm going to say double dip. Yeah w w okay okay. Tandem. You have two lifts in a row. Not side by side but front to back. Okay.

Johnathan White : Yep.

Jimmy Lea : So if I understood you right, you just said that you could expand by one bay, but also, is it in effect adding three bays?

Johnathan White : No. Just one minute. Yep. Now just one. Just one to, or one lift. So we would just blow out that wall and then move the equipment and add a bay there. It's there's a mezzanine there, but it wasn't ever it wasn't a part of the structural part of the building. So that can be torn down really easily.

Johnathan White : So that's, probably my next, next thing as far as adding another tech and, and boosting throughput through the shop, because right now we're, you know, we are running pretty efficient. Yeah. We're starting to get to the point where we're saying no. And it's one thing I don't like to say. So, I probably would have done it earlier, but this market this year has been a little topsy turvy.

Johnathan White : So I've been monitoring the market and waiting to do that, expansion when the timing seemed correct.

Jimmy Lea : So totally agree. The timing does, count for quite a bit. Quite a bit for sure. So for those shops that are listening in, they're saying, oh my gosh, she's at 105%.

Johnathan White :

Jimmy Lea : Is that the max that you can do or can you do more?

Johnathan White : We can do more. I mean, I have a tech that runs 150% efficient. So I mean, it comes down to to skill set and workflow and, you know, front counter, you know, really lining things up, right, and dispatching correctly. And a lot of things have to go right. So, is there room for improvement? Always. Can we get there?

Johnathan White : That's to be determined.

Jimmy Lea : Yep, yep. And 150 for a single technician. That's phenomenal. The most I've heard, I think, was 116% that I, that I've heard of personally, a shop running at 116% shop efficiencies, which is very, very cool to be able to hear something like that happening.

Johnathan White : Yeah, we, we definitely focus on that as being insufficient as we possibly can, you know, making sure we're doing things correctly or charging for things correctly. You know, if we are. That's why I don't like doing some quotes, you know, giving prices over the phone. You know, and there were no I got a can't do it. I got a check engine light on.

Johnathan White : Okay. Great. Is it one coders at six that that makes the diag process way different. Yeah. That's you know, that's one thing with, the suffix model of, you know, the 15 minute, no wrench is a great way to get people in the door. No phone calls whatsoever except for menu items. And then it allows you to get that initial, like quick triage where.

Johnathan White : Yeah, they, check engine lights on and have a drive. But there's one code. Great. It's this price that I get or it's, you know, you got a comment like, well, I can see the radiators. I can, we can start there, or we can pressure test it and try and confirm, you know.

Jimmy Lea : Where else is it leaking?

Johnathan White : You know, but. Oh, I got to check engine light. Oh, there's six codes in here. Three of them are misfires. You got a VAT code and you got a evap Falcon. All the there and the misfire may overlap. May not. But the key. That fault code. That's 100%. A separate system that's separate test. You know, now realistically to diagnose this right.

Johnathan White : We two two hours worth of evaluation time. If I'd given a phone call, we would have to decide at that point in time, are we going to tell the customer like, hey, we diagnose it and is this to repair this? But we also need more time for this. You know, that feels a little bait and switch. So, you know, again, managing customer expectations, informing customers and, and really making them understand why we're doing what we're doing is, is paramount.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true to so true. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for what you've done here in this industry. It's phenomenal. I love the industry. I love where we are and what we're doing. I love the coaching and training companies that that are helping to elevate this entire industry. It's it's can't be done by one.

Jimmy Lea : It has to be done by all. And where we stand, we lift.

Johnathan White : Great.

Jimmy Lea : I agree you have a unique background and I say unique because it's unique to you. But there are others out in the industry that are the son of the father who started the shop, and they're in your same boots.

Johnathan White : So if you were.

Jimmy Lea : To give yourself.

Johnathan White : Advice.

Jimmy Lea : And this is advice that you're now giving to other people in your same position, were you to start this journey today or tomorrow, knowing what you know that you've learned over the last 20 plus plus years? What advice would you give yourself in starting out as a son of an owner, positioning yourself to one day take over as the owner?

Johnathan White : Well, as humans, we hate competition. We hate having those hard conversations. And I would say that was the number one thing that I did not do. Soon enough, I did not have that hard conversation with my dad about, hey, when, you know, it was always, oh, well, you're going to take it over, you're going to take it over it.

Johnathan White : So, you know, at the point where I kept getting pushed back on changes I wanted to make, it's not the right direction. You know, whatever reasoning there was, having that heart conversation to the point of, hey, I need a deadline of when this is happening. Now, and we need to come to a conclusion of what that's going to be and what it's going to entail and look like for or at that point in time, it's because we can't come to a conclusion that I need to start positioning myself for somewhere else, or go some go a different direction, but we need to have those hard conversations with our employees to hold them accountable.

Johnathan White : We need to have that hard conversation with ourselves, to hold ourselves accountable. And as an industry as a whole, as humans, we suck at that. And it's only gotten worse with technology.

Jimmy Lea : That truth true, 100% certain percent.

Johnathan White : If I was to go back, that's that's what I would do, is have that hard conversation earlier. And realistically, if I did that, I probably would have owned the business before Covid. And, I may probably have already had a second location.

Jimmy Lea : Probably that would be giving you a lot more runway. So for those who are listening in and what you're saying is to have those crucial conversations, those critical conversations, those confrontations, and not be afraid to do it, you need to feel empowered to do it. And you would do it sooner. Any books or, advice that you can give to people to where to look for guidance on having these conversations?

Johnathan White : I mean, I think Josh, with limited leadership. Josh Parnell yeah, he's a great person to talk to about expanding your leadership. And and that obviously with leadership goes along with that. I think that's a great, great place to start. You know, mindsets part of it. So if you're struggling and you don't think you're, you're, if you can get to the point of being profitable or you're not worth getting profitable, you know, rich dad, poor dad, there's like, Simon Sinek makes a lot has a lot of great books.

Johnathan White : You know, you you.

Jimmy Lea : Only golden circle find out to your why.

Johnathan White : Yeah, there's only you. You only know what you know. And that's part of having a training group. And you, you only know what you know. And if there's no where the you're getting somewhere that's going to push you, then you're only going to get to a certain level.

Jimmy Lea : Yeah, yeah. Get into a group that's going to push you get into a group that's going to that. They want you to be better than you are today.

Johnathan White : Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : A couple of books that I'm thinking of. Two, one is, Crucial Conversations. Phenomenal book that helps to guide those conversations so you can have that critical confrontation and not lose your stuff. Yeah. The second book, and I think you probably have read the second book. Chris boss.

Johnathan White : Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Never settle. Never settle the difference. Never negotiate. Never.

Johnathan White : Yes, something like that. I know what you're talking about.

Jimmy Lea : Yeah. Yellow cover. Phenomenal. I need to read, Chris Voss again. That. What a phenomenal book.

Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round for you, John. One word answer or one sentence answer. And by the way, thank you so much for what you're doing in this industry. Thank you for all the shops that you're coaching and training, the help that you're giving them to assist and elevate and create such a better and brighter future for them.

Jimmy Lea : Thank you for what you're doing, John. I really appreciate it, brother.

Johnathan White : Thanks for having you.

Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round one tool or system. You'll never give up again.

Jimmy Lea : Devis most common myth customers believe about auto repair.

Johnathan White : That we just plug it in gives us the answer that it's easy. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Best hire you've ever made. And why?

Johnathan White : Best hire. Yeah. It'll be will be one of my master techs. And why he wasn't really sold. I had to really sell them on the business. And, what what I was doing and everything. He came in with the goal of being. And we can only 100, grand a year, and he will be well north of.

Johnathan White : Well, north of that. And congratulations, office. How so? And, I think I'm gonna lose them sooner than I want to, because he's going to pay that off a lot faster. So. But, yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Keep him as long as you can. Right? Even as long as you can. And the more you can have him training, your people are that phenomenal. Okay. We digress. Hardest role to hire for right now service manager.

Johnathan White : So I'm going to run your shop for you can be the the leadership behind it. Yeah. Takes a varies. You have to align with them. You have to communicate with them as the owner. It took me three people.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, I'm glad you found the one one boundary. You you set that improved profit and culture.

Johnathan White :

Johnathan White : That we sell, we don't sell ourselves short. And we sell for what we're worth 100%.

Jimmy Lea : Your favorite metric that predicts a good month.

Johnathan White : Gross profit per hour. And hours per hour.

Jimmy Lea : Love it, love it. That. What's the perfect day? Car count for your shop?

Johnathan White : Right about 20 to 25.

Jimmy Lea : One book or podcast or coach that changed your thinking?

Johnathan White : Oh, Jackets with, gets automotive, which is shop fixed. Coach currently still my coach.

Jimmy Lea : Shout out to Jack.

Johnathan White : The he drilled into me and and, it's been a very productive relationship.

Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. What are you irrationally picky about in the shop?

Johnathan White : The way arrows are written. I don't like one liners, like, diagnose coolant, like radiator leaking, but just it doesn't add value to me. So I like more, slot stories, you can call them, but even if it's simple, it just needs to have more. More than two words.

Jimmy Lea : Yes. Tell the story. Please tell the.

Johnathan White : Story. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea : Oh, I love it. John, you are awesome. Thank you to all you're doing. Thank you to Phil's Pro Auto service. Thank you to pops. Congrats on your retirement. Thank you. And John congrats on what you're doing in the industry bro. Keep it up. Keep it up.

Johnathan White : And I do have to do one little small shout out in January. 31st is Colorado Asa's training Summit. So if you are in the area it's a great way to get training for a technician, an advisor, a manager and an owner.

Jimmy Lea : Yes, yes, everybody in the reach. And if you're in driving distance of, say, Denver, Colorado, you should definitely be there because the training is it's it's the best it's the best that you can get. It is that face to face hands on learning experience that you're looking for as a technician, as a service advisor, a manager or an owner.

Jimmy Lea : Go to these classes, take them. And if you're an owner, take the owner classes, the ownership, the marketing, the leadership. Yeah, I know it's cool to jump in and find out all about that. Fuel injection. The newest, latest, greatest turbos. But come on, man, you're a business owner. Let's let's work on that skill set. Be the business owner.

Jimmy Lea : So, yes, John, thank you for that. Shout out to NASA. Denver, Colorado. Everybody needs to be there is a summit.

Johnathan White : Yes. Say summit January 31st.

Jimmy Lea : Awesome. Thank you so much for doing that, John. Thank you for all you do, brother. Appreciate it.

Johnathan White : All right. Thank you.

A San Diego shop owner shares how he grew from technician to three-location operator. He explains why scaling requires new leadership skills, written processes, and empowered managers. The episode covers a simple referral program, the importance of knowing your numbers, and lessons from buying additional shops. It also highlights integrity driven customer service decisions that build long term trust. The conversation closes with a call for more industry collaboration and a major Boys & Girls Club fundraiser.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Guest(s):

John Eppstein, Owner of John's Automotive Care

Show Highlights:

[00:00:00] – A long-time shop friendship sets up a growth conversation.

[00:04:20] – Multi-shop ownership requires a completely different skill set.

[00:10:30]  – Early hands-on learning built confidence and work ethic.

[00:18:40] – Bad leadership lessons shaped a customer-first mindset.

[00:26:10] – More space forced real marketing and operational discipline.

[00:33:40] – Referral cards drive trust and repeatable customer growth.

[00:43:30] – Acquisitions revealed admin gaps and hidden costs.

[00:55:10]  – Processes must live on paper, not in memory.

[01:04:40] – Integrity decisions create lifelong customers and loyal teams.

[01:12:30] – Industry collaboration improves pricing, quality, and reputation.

Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!

Links & Resources: 

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Jimmy Lea: Hey guys. Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is John Epstein from John's Automotive Care down in San Diego, California. I have had the distinct honor and pleasure of knowing John for a very long time.

Jimmy Lea: Many moons. I've watched John grow his business over the years, which I'm very excited for us to be able to have a conversation about even had the deluxe pleasure of spending the night at his house once upon a time when a good buddy was getting married down there in San Diego. Do you remember that, John?

Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. The hotels were $600 a night and lucky for me, John did not charge me nearly that much. Right

John Eppstein: Close, but not quite close,

Jimmy Lea: but not quite. John so thank you for joining me here, this conversation for us today. Thank you. I appreciate you being here, brother.

John Eppstein: Absolutely. I always love chatting with you and if I can help the industry out I'm all for it.

Jimmy Lea: And that's what the institute's all about, is us locking arms together as an industry

Jimmy Lea: To build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. We focus on you and your business because by focusing on you and your business, it provides your business a better life and not just for you, John, for your employees.

Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. And technicians. And not just for your employees and your technicians. Yeah. Also to their families. Their families your significant others, their significant others, their children, your children. Everyone is benefiting from us having a better business and a better life. And because we've locked arms as an industry, we have a better industry as well.

Jimmy Lea: And full disclosure, John Epstein used to be with RLO BLI back in the day. Back in the day. Yep. In fact, I think that's when I first met you, John. I was with Auto Vitals way back then. Yep. And we met down in San Antonio. Yep. At the the big BLI annual meeting, I think that it was.

John Eppstein: Yep. Absolutely.

John Eppstein: Yeah. The Bottom Line Impact Group was a big part of my business for a very long time, and it brought me from the not so bright technician pretending to be a shop owner, to actually becoming a shop owner.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's true. You don't know what you don't know. And once you get with a coach, there's so much more.

Jimmy Lea: One, as you learn that there's so much more you don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Such a process. I love it. Yeah, I love that. We can work together on that. And full disclosure, John is not with the institute currently as a coaching and training. He was with RLO and the institute by RLO. What are you doing these days, John?

John Eppstein: We're just working on our business. I've got doing some stuff as a multi shop, we are trying to I mentioned that I was a technician and a good one, and that it wasn't a great. Shop owner. And then I turn into a pretty good shop owner, and now I got three shops and now I'm having to figure out how to become a multi shop owner, which is very different.

John Eppstein: Oh, so different.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you, you are taking all these years of training that you have accumulated all this wealth of knowledge and information and now you're disseminating it out to all of your other shops, which is just such an awesome experience for you to be able to do that. And a multiple shop operator, this is like, Luke Underwood talks about going from a three bay shop to his now 10 bay shop, right?

Jimmy Lea: It's different business. Oh, absolutely. It's a different skillset. Yes. And for you to go from one shop to multiple shops, it's a different skillset.

John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah. Abs absolutely. And it's fixing cars is one thing. Taking care of your customers is another. It really is. And that's, there's a lot of great technicians out there that can take care of somebody's car, but they're not so good taking care of the customer.

John Eppstein: Yeah. And but

Jimmy Lea: not only are we taking care of our customers, John, we also are taking care of our people. Absolutely. Our people are our biggest asset and we definitely gotta take care of 'em. So I wanna reel this back a little bit here, John. I have the distinct pleasure of visiting your half a shop.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And we call it a half a shop. 'cause it, it is literally what, a hundred yards from your current shop that you have there in San

John Eppstein: It's one block away. Literally.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. One block away. It's a two. Is it two bays or one bay?

John Eppstein: There's really no bays 'cause everything's outside. But we have four lifts outside, 'cause in, in San Diego we have horrific weather.

John Eppstein: Currently it's December, whatever, and it's 80 degrees. So I'm not sure how we've survived this week 'cause it's so hot, but so hot.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You fluctuate between, what, 72 and 80?

John Eppstein: Yeah. Give or take a little. We're able to work outside and, down here. The building, it's a weird setup but it worked really long.

John Eppstein: It's

Jimmy Lea: a weird setup and if anybody ever gets an opportunity, if you're in San Diego and you get the distinct pleasure of stopping by John's shop, ask him to point and just walk down there to look at the old shop the way where it is down there. How did you find it? How did you get started Here you are a technician.

Jimmy Lea: What's that story look like for you getting started, John?

John Eppstein: Let's see, when I was born, all right, I won't go with that. I won't go with that version.

Jimmy Lea: You were born with a wrench in your hand. Is that where you're

John Eppstein: going? It's funny that you ask so my dad was a professional engineer that worked for General Dynamics and his job, he was a rocket scientist, and I can say that it's just, it is what it is.

John Eppstein: One of, one of the things he worked on was the first man spaceship that went to the moon. He worked on F 14 fighters and cool stuff like that, but he was very mechanical minded and so I naturally became, I was just, I was born with the mechanical sense in me and it interested me. I would help 'em fix cars.

John Eppstein: When I said I'd help 'em fix cars, I would hold the flashlight and we would always get in the argument over. I can't see. I would respond with I can, and of course he was the one working on the car, so it was probably more important that he could see. But so that's how I got started. And I bought a car that was a piece of junk 69 Cougar 3 51 Cleveland.

John Eppstein: It went really fast until it blew up. And my dad had a friend that worked at a gas station and he called up Roy. He said, Hey Roy, can you help John put an engine in his car? So we towed it up it's outside of San Diego, up in the mountains. So we towed it up there and Roy walks me over to his little toolbox and he says, have at it.

John Eppstein: Let me know what you need. I'm like, cool, so I went out and I ripped the engine out and every once in a while I'd have a question and I'd be like, Hey, what I do here? And he'd tell me. And so off I went. And three days later, the new engine's in, it's running. I drive off down the road. Two days later, the owner of the gas station calls and says, Hey, you want a job pump and gas?

John Eppstein: And I'm like. Right on. Sure. But I didn't have a job at the time, so I showed up on the first day and I'm like, all right, what do you want me to do? He says, go put belts on that car over there. He had been watching me work and for the green guy that I was, he was very happy with how he did it. So I managed his gas station and fixed cars for a long time and he was an ama amazing guy.

Jimmy Lea: This is hilarious. This is pre-internet. This is pre YouTube. This is, yes. Take it apart and figure it out. Absolutely. And you did this on a cougar?

John Eppstein: Yeah. 69 Cougar. It was 30, 37 different shades of primer gray.

Jimmy Lea: Beautiful

John Eppstein: People would look at it and laugh and then we'd race and they'd cry at the end because I was always way out in front of them.

John Eppstein: Yeah, I only race it once or twice and we'll just, we'll stick with that story there. The story.

Jimmy Lea: We're sticking with it. Yeah. The only once or twice that can be proven and yes. Everything else is, we just don't talk about fight club. Yes, exactly. That's amazing. And so he offered you, what are you, 15, 16, 17 and I was,

John Eppstein: I was 16 at the time.

John Eppstein: Yeah. I've been full-time in this, in industry since I was 16 actually I take that back. I think I was seven, I think I was 17 at the time.

Jimmy Lea: Probably your senior year. 17, 18, somewhere around there. And you were probably getting half day release time to go down to the shop and work. Are you doing that or is that not a program at your school?

John Eppstein: It was not a program. I actually, I broke my leg when I was 16 and I was out of I missed the first three the last three months of the first semester. Second three months of the second semester. 'cause I broke I was playing soccer and I had a pin and a plate put in. And then they put me on Vicodin, which I had no clue what Vicodin was.

John Eppstein: But turns out it made me really stupid. I couldn't concentrate, I couldn't think. And so I missed six months of school. Because when I went, I still didn't, I was on the Vicodin. I didn't comprehend.

Jimmy Lea: No,

John Eppstein: that I wasn't processing until I stopped taking it one day or I stopped taking it. And then one day I took one and it was like, whoa, I don't understand the book.

John Eppstein: I just read. And so I fell behind and so I started working full-time and going to school, in the evenings after that. Oh, got it. It was it was good. It worked out well for me. Like I said, the guy was a great, he was a great great mentor for me. He, we did things right.

John Eppstein: I learned, I knew the right things to do with people, he instilled, you do the work right and you take care of your customers. And so he ended up got, he got sick. The doctor said, okay, you're gonna have a heart attack if you don't sell. He sold the guy that owned it or that bought it was not a honest man, and I worked for him for one month before I figured that out and moved on.

John Eppstein: Went to work across, literally across the street at a gas station across the street. 'cause the guy knew me. And I would probably still be with him today. I couldn't actually 'cause he's passed on, but if he would've been nice to me, I probably never would've left working there. But it was always a battle with him.

John Eppstein: I, I took ownership of the customers. These are, one of my customers called and he would argue with me. They're not your fucking customers. Oh, I shouldn't have said that, but that's what he would say. They're not your customers. They're mine. Okay. Whatever you say, Don.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They come

John Eppstein: in and they ask for me because I'm the one that's here and I'm the one that takes care of 'em.

John Eppstein: And it wasn't like I was trained to steal his customers. I just. It's what you, it's what you want your people to do. You want 'em to take ownership of their job and their customers, and he didn't understand that part. So

Jimmy Lea: I love that. And for historical accuracy. John, we'll let you say that's, thank you.

Jimmy Lea: You were quoting that was a quote,

John Eppstein: quote, a hundred percent.

Jimmy Lea: So Don Don had the shop across the street. You probably took a lot of your customers with you because they saw that, oh, hey, wait, John's here across the street and he's not over here anymore. He is over there.

John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people followed and then like, when I worked for Don and I eventually moved on.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So what does that look like? Are you like, dude, I am done with you. Peace. I'm out, and now you're looking for a shop, or, I'm smarter than that.

John Eppstein: I may not look smarter than that, but I am smarter than that. You were off the Odin? Yes, I was off of Vicodin by then. I always and once I figured out what it did to me, I never, I've never touched, I never touched it again.

John Eppstein: I wanted no part good for you not being able to process things. But good for

Jimmy Lea: you.

John Eppstein: I started looking for a shop and I actually looked for five years for a shop to move into because I wanted to stay in my, in the area that I had al that I was already in. And I looked, my tool guy said, Hey, this guy's got this shop down the road and he wants to retire.

John Eppstein: You should go talk to him. I'm like, all right, cool. So I went down and we had a great conversation. He says, all right, I'm not ready to retire, but I'll rent you half of my shop. And I'm like, awesome. This is a match made in heaven. And then I moved in and a week later I realized he was a. Pc not a nice guy.

John Eppstein: Got it.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. He was a part of the Don family, is that what you're saying?

John Eppstein: No. Yes. In a roundabout way. Although he was actually worse than Don. 'cause

Jimmy Lea: oh

Jimmy Lea: gosh.

John Eppstein: He was a retired military guy. He was a gunner's mate.

John Eppstein: He only did engines. He put engines and things. And I remember standing, him walking out to meet one of his little lady customers in the middle of the parking lot, talking to her for about 30 seconds and then yelling at her.

John Eppstein: What the f are you thinking?

Jimmy Lea: Oh, no.

John Eppstein: Yes. So that's the type of person. Yeah he he's thinking he's still in the military, is how I

Jimmy Lea: Oh, and he thought everybody else was in the military too. Yes. Wait, so I'm not adding up this timeline here. You were 17 at the one gas station. Okay.

Jimmy Lea: Alright. And then

John Eppstein: 17 working for Gary. I worked for Gary for three years. Oh wow. Went across the street to work for Don. I worked for him for almost 10 years,

Jimmy Lea: dude. Oh my gosh. I thought it was one month. Yeah.

John Eppstein: No. The guy I worked for one month was, it was the first place and I just stayed there, figured out he was not a good person.

John Eppstein: And I moved on. So moved across the street 10 years. We actually moved from the town we were in to, from Alpine down to San Diego. And it's in the neighborhood where I'm at now. Okay. And so yes, I worked for him for about 10 years. And then come 1998 is when I opened my shop.

John Eppstein: And it's ironic, it took me about 10 years to figure out that I actually started my business on April Fool's Day. I haven't quite decided who the joke was on, was it on me or was it on somebody else, but

Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh.

John Eppstein: Yeah. So I went into his place and the sad part is he was really a nice guy.

John Eppstein: He had a good heart.

Jimmy Lea: The gunner?

John Eppstein: Yes. Okay. Until he was fre mad, frustrated, upset. And then he just, he just I, I saw him give the shirt off his back to some people and then, people that he knew, he tended to be a little bit harder on. And so I literally. After two years, I talked to the landlord of the place where I was at, and he owned the property next door, literally next door.

John Eppstein: And I asked him, I said, can I move in? And he says, that would be awesome. So I told Bill and he said a lot of words, I can't repeat, you're ugly. I never wanna see you again. And so he put up a barrier across the fence so he wouldn't have to see me ever again.

Jimmy Lea: No, you were dead to him. Yes.

John Eppstein: I was dead to him.

John Eppstein: So I was there for two years and it was a very long two years by the way. And so then I moved literally next door. And it was not. And that's my half shop now. Ironically enough,

Jimmy Lea: you still have it,

John Eppstein: No, I'll finish the story. Oh, of course. You'll, it'll, you'll crack up about it.

John Eppstein: So I moved next door and it wasn't set up for automotive. I had to tear out concrete, pour new concrete. I built some a covering put racks in and all of that. And it was a weird setup. And so that was, I finally hired, hired some people. I had a technician and a helper. One of the guys that still works for me today came to work for me.

John Eppstein: There. Whoa. 20, 25 years later, he is still working for me. So we had an office space. We had the service advisor area. I wrote service during the day. I would fix cars at night. My guys would fix cars during the day. So I remember we had a zuzu trooper that needed an engine, and the guy wanted to do the engine and the transmission.

John Eppstein: And so everybody went home at the end of the day. And I went out and I pulled the engine out. And they come in the next day and they're like, what happened here?

Jimmy Lea: I'm like,

John Eppstein: oh, I don't know. I didn't see a thing, and so then that night everybody goes home, I pull the tranny out, I, I take the engine apart, and they come back the next day and they're like, it wasn't going on.

John Eppstein: And of course they really knew what was going on. But, so I did this whole job. Nobody ever saw me work on it. It just it, that's how, where I worked 16, 18 hours a day and, it was cool. My, my guys would struggle with something, a car sometimes, and they would go home.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And

John Eppstein: the next day they'd come in and it would be done either done or at least past the part that they couldn't figure out,

Jimmy Lea: oh wow. They'd

John Eppstein: have a broken bolt or they got something they couldn't, they couldn't do this or couldn't do that. And so I would get in and just give 'em that little push.

John Eppstein: And they'd come in, the first time it happened, they were like, almost crying. They were so excited, they're like, oh, I didn't wanna come to work today 'cause of this. And it's done.

Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So you must have got really good at tapping bolts, huh?

John Eppstein: Oh, yeah. Yeah. All that weird stuff.

John Eppstein: I I took care of pretty well, so yes, I was at one point I had 23 ASC certifications my, my knowledge of repairs, that was very high. Like I mentioned, I was a good technician

Jimmy Lea: that's awesome.

John Eppstein: And so when I was at the first place. People just came to me. I remember one of my, one of the guys from the, that used to come to me at the gas station came in and he said, he called me, he says, dude, I need you to look at my vehicle.

John Eppstein: I took it into the old shop and they did brakes. And I got it back and the pedal was gonna the floor. So I called him up, I said, Hey, my pedal's going to the floor. And the guy went off on me, how dare you, my work, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, that's, that's okay. You can bring it here. And he brought it down.

John Eppstein: I looked at it and I don't remember what it was. It's something simple. I fixed it. And, he was a great customer for the next 20 plus years till he retired. But it, it's it's interesting how that piece where you take care of people, whether it's your employees or your customers, is super important.

John Eppstein: 'cause a broken car,

Jimmy Lea: yes,

John Eppstein: it's a problem, but there's all often other problems that are associated with that car being broken. It's, they're not so much mad that. Car's broke down. It's the car's broke down. Now I can't pick up my kids. The car's broke down. I can't take grandma to her doctor's appointment.

John Eppstein: You know what whatever it is. And yeah,

Jimmy Lea: We're in a relationship business, John. We just happen to work on cars.

John Eppstein: Yes, absolutely. And we gotta remember that we have lots of customers. We have the customers who bring the cars in, and then we have the customers who are working back and fix the cars,

Jimmy Lea: Uhhuh, because they're

John Eppstein: technically customers as well.

John Eppstein: Uhhuh and the service advisors has to marry those two together without actually getting them together.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: And that's such a. A key piece to it in a lot of places, I mentioned Don, that wasn't nice to me. If he would've pieced that together, that Oh, I should probably take care of John because not only does he fix cars, but when I'm not here, he runs the gas station.

John Eppstein: He runs, yeah, he runs the business. Come on, there's a problem. There's a problem out front. He goes and takes care of it. There's too many customers for the one night guy that moves super slow, he goes out and takes care of it.

Jimmy Lea: Yep.

John Eppstein: So those are things, and he didn't even have to say thank you all the time.

John Eppstein: He just needed to not be a dick all the time. And I would've been happy.

Jimmy Lea: So true. So you're in this half location next door to the gunny. Yeah. And how did you find John's Auto Care where you are now? Which I've been in, and it looks like you added on and added on to that location as well.

John Eppstein: That is a great, that is also a great story. So down the alley, we've already established that it's one block away, right? Yeah. Was scenes automotive and it had been there for many years. And in fact the owner of Scenes Automotive was at one time the state president for A-S-C-C-A. Got a good little tie in there.

John Eppstein: So he one day comes walking down and he says, John, I'm ready to retire. I'm moving to North Carolina. I'm, I need to slow down and I'm gonna become a teacher at UTI Tech, which is a NASCAR school.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice.

John Eppstein: I'm like, cool, because I'm gonna sell my business to one of two people and you're one of them.

John Eppstein: And I said, don't look any further. I need the space. I will take it. Oh yeah. By the way, how much do you want for it? Okay. Yeah, no problem. No problem. I'll take it. Okay. And I paid them way more than the VA than the business was worth because they had a race car here. It's a big shop. And so the bigger half of the shop was dedicated to the race car.

John Eppstein: Okay. And the other smaller part, they still took care of customers. So at one point they did a fairly decent amount of business, but they lost interest and it petered out. But for me it was worth the money. Okay.

Jimmy Lea: So

John Eppstein: I moved up to the new shop 2003. I had a friend that owned a shop in a little strip mall way in the back, no parking.

John Eppstein: He did foreign cars and weird stuff. And I'm like, hey Charlie, I'm moving. Would you like to move into my facility? He's yes. So he moved in. I moved over. By the way, Napa. Came down on a Saturday, they brought their trucks and their lifts and all that. And we literally moved the entire shop in four hours.

Jimmy Lea: We had

John Eppstein: my people, me, the Napa guys, the Napa trucks, the last thing we moved was my toolbox, and we pushed it down the alley, one block over to the new shop. That was like the last thing that, that, that went over. But it's part of that whole collaboration of, the Napa guys were like,

John Eppstein: And at that point I wasn't a huge customer.

John Eppstein: I was a little guy.

Jimmy Lea: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: You were a little guy down the alley even. And I know that run from your old half shop to the new shop is a slight incline. So pushing that toolbox was quite the feet.

Jimmy Lea: And I know that your driveway in. Yes. We

John Eppstein: had to get a good run on that. See, the good news is I used to play soccer, so I got good leg, I got good leg muscles, and we,

Jimmy Lea: oh, there you go.

Jimmy Lea: I

John Eppstein: think I did, I think there was like five of us that pushed it. It was, if you were like, on the outside looking in, you're probably laughing going, what are these fools doing? Oh,

Jimmy Lea: a hundred percent. You know that somebody has a video somewhere of you. Yes. Foolish man. Pushing. Yeah. Okay. So you're in the new location now, and you've got Charlie there.

Jimmy Lea: What happened to the landlord in the old location?

John Eppstein: The gunny guy or the no, gunnys next door. He put up a fence.

Jimmy Lea: You're dead to him. Yeah,

John Eppstein: It's funny because the landlord earned, owned both of those pieces of property. So he's he owned the first one that I was in. He owned the second one that I was in.

John Eppstein: So Charlie moved in behind me. He was happy as could be. He did it, people came there looking for me. He'd sent 'em right up the alley to me, which I knew he would do. He's, he had his clients. He was an air cooled Volkswagen guy. Oh, nice. And then he did a lot of weird older stuff. So it was a good, it was a good partnership.

John Eppstein: We moved in the first week I realized, holy crud, I do not know how to market and advertise 'cause I've never had to, we can now do twice as much in half the time because we have space. We don't have to move 17 cars to get the one in and work on it. And so that's when I joined the bottom Line Impact Group and figured out just how stupid I was.

John Eppstein: I remember I had, I did a little advertisement in a local newspaper and I brought the advertisement in and I showed it to, to John Effler, my faci, my facilitator. And he looked at it for about 10 seconds and he crumpled it up. He threw it in the middle of the room and went over and jumped on it. And this is the worst piece of marketing I have ever seen.

Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. There's a wake up call

John Eppstein: and I'm like, tell us how you really feel, John. And actually, I didn't know him that well yet, but it was pretty bad. It, it for what I was trying to get customers and it was more of a, a top of mind marketing and advertising. So as we, as as I know now, there's different kinds of marketing for different things you're trying to to do.

John Eppstein: So true. So it was pretty funny. And so then I had to learn how to market and advertise. And, I figured out that, oh, a referral program, that's a pretty great piece of marketing. Everybody that comes in already trusts you because somebody sent them to you. And it's one of the biggest things that a lot of shops miss out on that piece.

John Eppstein: 'cause when I first started it, and I would ask customers for their referral, I got two common answers. You always look so busy. I didn't think you needed more work. And number two, I was my favorite. So if I refer my friends and family, are you still gonna have time to work on my car? Those were the two common responses that I got when I started asking people to send referrals over.

John Eppstein: Oh my gosh. That's a riot. Yeah. But those are things that people, a lot of people don't even have a program and others have 'em, but it's not a formal one. They don't ask. They just, if somebody sends a referral, they'll send 'em a thank you or whatever, you gotta ask your customers. But,

Jimmy Lea: so what are

John Eppstein: you doing today?

John Eppstein: What's your referral program today? What do you do? It's very much it was a long time ago. Yeah. Originally I had little certificates that. We printed, I printed as I needed. Now it's on the back of our business card. And it's, it's just a real simple, we ask people, Hey, you have any friends, family or coworkers you think could benefit from our services?

John Eppstein: If so, please give them one of our referral cards. Just make sure we can read your name on it, and when they come in, they're gonna get $40 off and we're gonna send you a thank you letter and you're gonna get a free service the next time you come in. And we've had people that haven't paid for oil changes in years because they send us so many people and we're good with that.

John Eppstein: It's a just a no brainer,

Jimmy Lea: that's beautiful. John. I love that program. I love your referral program. And I'm also guessing that you did some pretty good analysis here of the program to work the cost of it in, because if any Joe Public were to take your idea right now and say, oh, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna implement it.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it could put them outta business. Potentially. Yeah, potentially. Yeah. They need to analyze their numbers to know, can I sustain this type of a referral program? Yeah. Whatever your program is you've got to know your numbers. How important is it to know your numbers for you, John? Yeah. Oh, it's super important.

John Eppstein: You gotta know your, your KPIs for the business. You gotta know, bookkeeping is important, yeah. And and that's something a lot of people struggle with. I struggle with it. I'm, I, by no means am I an expert on the ba, the backend, but I know enough to, you pay attention to your expenses and there, there's a lot, the only way to improve your outcome is to charge more or pay out less.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: Pretty straightforward. But you gotta know your

Jimmy Lea: expenses.

John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. But you gotta know your numbers. If you don't know your numbers you can't do, you can't do any of that

Jimmy Lea: oh, yeah. Good for you. Congratulations. That's awesome. So I also know that you have purchased a couple of other businesses as well.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No. Back to your shop that you're at now. It does look like it's been added and added, but that must be the race car side and the maintenance side.

John Eppstein: So the business Okay. Where you walk in the front door to the office, that building has been here for 75 years, I'm guessing.

Jimmy Lea: Whoa.

John Eppstein: It's a metal building, very old. So there's two pieces of property. They're put together as one somewhere before I got it somewhere, be back, probably back when scenes was here.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They

John Eppstein: decided to add a building to next to the building and so they got some plans and they. Built the second half, so to speak, made outta brick.

John Eppstein: It was supposed to be level ground. It's not exactly. It's, there's like a three foot ramp in the center of the shop that you have to go up. And if you look at the roof on the new side, it doesn't start higher in the middle and then go down, out outside. It's just the opposite. So somebody did something wrong with the plans again, long before I came along.

John Eppstein: So I just was a recipient of, and we make it work. It's not the worst thing, but it would've been nice had they got it right. We'll just say, we'll just say that

Jimmy Lea: oh, clearly. Yeah, for sure. That's hilarious.

John Eppstein: And then we've added lifts outside again, sunny San Diego. We can do that. It. Taking up concrete, pouring concrete, getting it level.

John Eppstein: We added three lifts outside. We have a big four poster that for big trucks, and we have a couple of two posters outside. So we technically have 14 bays at the main chop and the four at the half shop. So we technically have 18, I guess 18 bays. So

Jimmy Lea: yeah, you're in the garage, Mahal arena of shops. You've got a lot of bays, brother.

John Eppstein: We, we do. It's older building, the con, it's not the prettiest, but we keep it clean. People come in and they're like, where's all the dirt?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: We try to keep it clean.

Jimmy Lea: Where's the dirt? Where's the dust? Where's the oil? Yeah. It doesn't even smell like a, an automotive repair shop, right?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You do a very good job at keeping it pristine and clean, so thank you. Compliments to you.

Jimmy Lea: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: That's cool. Yeah. Okay yeah the, somebody built your building backwards.

John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: And you're the recipient of it. You weren't the implementer of it.

John Eppstein: No.

Jimmy Lea: Oh,

John Eppstein: man. And remember where I came from, it was even worse off, it, it was not set up for automotive at all.

John Eppstein: No. I just made it work. And you just, you make, you just make do with what you got. Not everybody can have that perfectly laid out shop. That runs as efficiently as possible.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: You do what you can with what you got, and then it sounds like you've done a phenomenal job.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So when you added La Mesa. It was La Mesa first.

John Eppstein: Yep. La Mesa first. So for 20 years I swore I would never have more than one chop.

Jimmy Lea: You. You know what happens when you swear, don't you?

John Eppstein: Yes, absolutely. I get, gets me in trouble. I swore not gonna do it. Never gonna happen. Not even possible. Don't wanna go down that road.

John Eppstein: And then one day I think I tripped when I got out of bed and I hit my head. Oh. And like the next month I owned a set, I owned my second shop

Jimmy Lea: and somebody slipped you a Vicodin. That's something. I

John Eppstein: think so. You're right. Absolutely. And it was it was a guy that I knew he taught. At Qui Macka College, which by the way, I am on the foundation board for Qui Macka Grossmont College.

John Eppstein: Another one of the fun things that I get to do my other jobs. And they've got an amazing automotive program there. And so the guy that owned the shop taught there, and he just wanted to teach. And the, his shop was going down down. He used to sell parts, which they'd gotten out of. They still had a big inventory.

John Eppstein: Yeah. And he's he, it is May 1st he says, I want to be outta here by the end of the month. And I hadn't even thought about owning a second shop before that. So there was no plan in place. There was nothing. It was just if I'm ever gonna do it, it was the right price. And so we struck a deal and I that was when I started learning how to be a multi shop owner.

John Eppstein: We stuck with the same name. The John's automotive care name. His old, his building was nasty. It was just, it

Jimmy Lea: needed a very good pressure washer.

John Eppstein: If you went to his website, he had pictures of mgs on it. We'll just go with that. Okay. Oh, so they were a very they were in an, a weird import specialty Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: British import.

John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so we quickly turned that off, got our, got a web, got our website going, painted it, our colors, brightened it up, livened it up, and good. It, that's been a lot of fun. And that was 2018 and then 2022 fellow shop owner, fellow, A SCC, a shop member.

John Eppstein: Yeah, it's time we had issues with his broker that he literally, I call, I'd been talking to him on and off for a couple years, hey, when are you gonna sell? Are you really wanna say? Yeah, someday. And then I randomly call him in 2020. Was it 2022? I think it's 2022. I'm like, Hey, you ready to sell?

John Eppstein: And he is quiet. Oh yeah. I signed with a broker today. Yeah. Literally today. No. And I'm like, you did, dude, why didn't you call me? No kidding. And we had never really had a serious I didn't offer him anything. It was just No, because it wasn't a

Jimmy Lea: serious conversation. Yeah.

John Eppstein: It wasn't a serious conversation.

John Eppstein: And the broker screwed us. He he tried to screw us. He sent over a document for me to sign a seven page document. Very first paragraph. I was supposed to sign that the broker introduced me. To the shop.

Jimmy Lea: Yes.

John Eppstein: Which

Jimmy Lea: no you didn't.

John Eppstein: No you didn't. And then there was six pages explaining why it's okay for the broker to represent both the seller and the buyer and all the things that the seller needed to do for the broker.

Jimmy Lea: Seller needed to do For the broker.

John Eppstein: Yeah. The requirements that they had to do. And you had to do this, and if you do this, you owe me that and you owe do this, you owe me that. Okay. That's, that leaves one page. So maybe on the last page it would have what the broker needs to do for the seller. Not a chance.

John Eppstein: There was nothing in there about that

Jimmy Lea: For the buyer. You, 'cause you're the buyer

John Eppstein: or No, for the guy. For Steve. The guy selling

Jimmy Lea: the shop. Oh. So was there also a clause in there? 'cause I've seen this every once in a while that says, I represent you for the rest of life

John Eppstein: Close. It was only a period of time, however.

John Eppstein: Anybody that had come to the table during the time that they were, partnered together, if it ever sold to any of those people, they got their payment.

Jimmy Lea: Oh they get another Benny.

John Eppstein: And they claimed me and he ended up having to pay them at the end of the day. He probably could have fought it and won, but he didn't.

John Eppstein: He was tired of the whole process and so he paid them. Oh, sure. Their whatever, 25, $30,000, whatever it was. Oh,

John Eppstein: it was pretty sad. It was it really sucked because they didn't bring 'em a single client in the six months in, in their No. In their contract. But yeah, that was that was very interesting.

John Eppstein: It's yeah. So

Jimmy Lea: Now you're a multiple shop operator. You've got you, you started at two and 18, and now in 22 you've got three. Yep. So you're at the end of COVID. Yep. That you're buying this third shop what have, what did, what have you had to develop as a new skillset to run multiple shops?

John Eppstein: Whew. A lot. There's you need to be a good leader with one shop, and you need to be an amazing leader with multiple shops. Because the farther away that I get from the end results, which is the consumer coming in and checking out, the harder it is to share my message and to share my beliefs and, and that sort of thing.

John Eppstein: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: So how often are you sharing your vision with your internal employees?

John Eppstein: We do it as often as we can. I have a general manager that, that spends more time going around to the shops. I come to the main shop majority of the time. I've always been good with my people. I get here, I walk through the shop and I say, Hey, how's it going?

John Eppstein: What's going on? Everything good? How's your weekend? And so when I go to the other shops and I spend a little more time, it's Hey, how's it going? Need anything is anything, what's going on in your life? And it it helps instill that, there's a person.

John Eppstein: There's a person that's, yeah, he's your boss, but he he cares somewhat. Unlike my old boss Don, that, wanted to argue with me about, the good things that I was doing. But yeah, you've gotta learn, you lead a very different way, you need to have processes in place and they can't just be here, you can't be in your brain.

John Eppstein: It's okay to start there, but you gotta put 'em on paper 'cause you gotta share it with people. Yeah. You can't just ex, you can't fire somebody. How did you not know that was what you're supposed to do? 'Cause you never told me. At the end of the day.

John Eppstein: So you gotta have those processes in place and for me it's my job is to enable and inspire my people. That's what a good owner does, is he en enables to. It enables your employees to do their job. You inspire them to do it well. You give 'em the tools to do it right. And at the end of the day, if you can do that, there's a good chance for success.

John Eppstein: And it's not a guarantee you're gonna have success, but it's a way better chance if you do that, when you start micromanaging people you know that it takes its toll on the person doing the micromanaging plus the people that are doing it. And I'm not saying you just let people run amuck. 'Cause we've had that where some of our admin ran amuck for a while and we had to, this ain't working.

John Eppstein: Again, that learning curve of what you need to do and what you not need to do. So it's okay to make mistakes. You learn from 'em, you grow and. Making sure that your people have the tools is super important. And I'm not talking the wrenches and the screwdrivers. It's the service advisors need the tools to be able to take care of the customer.

John Eppstein: If your desire is customer service at the at its finest, your service advisors need to make the call. Hey, we're not gonna charge you today because whatever, we're gonna put you in a rental car and we're not gonna charge you. They gotta be able to make that call, if they have to stop and come and ask every time, it just it doesn't make for success.

Jimmy Lea: No, it sucks the life outta your day too. Yes. I love that you are en enabling and equipping your inspire. And enable. Inspire. Yeah. And then you're giving them space to let them perform that this is why you hired them. You didn't hire them to micromanage them. You hired them. For them to make decisions.

Jimmy Lea: They're intelligent humans, they're intelligent people, and they know what is best for the customer and the client. Yeah. They also have to are looking out for John's auto automotive care. 'cause they've gotta protect the business as well.

John Eppstein: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: So that we have a job to come to tomorrow.

John Eppstein: Yep. Absolutely. And that's what I always, that's what I always tell my people.

John Eppstein: It's, if we're gonna take care of our customer, which is job one, what is the first thing that we have to do? We have to be here tomorrow. Yeah. If we're not here tomorrow, we can't take care of our customers. Yeah. And of course, tomorrow isn't just tomorrow, it's next week, next month, next year.

John Eppstein: 10 years down the road. That's right. I, I. I had a friend that got an engine somewhere and 'cause it was half the price of what mine was. And I was honest with him. I'm like, you're probably gonna regret this. And he says, yeah, I know I probably am. And sure enough, he, it was a little Toyota truck and motor, it started leaking.

John Eppstein: He went back and they did something. And then that was at month three. At month nine, Val head gasket went bad. Goes down there, doors are closed, they're out of business. No one Oh no, no warranty. No. And that's a huge, that's a huge part of it, sure. He got it cheaper and he knew that was gonna happen, and he's a real, he is a real good friend of mine.

John Eppstein: I worked with him actually at the gas station years ago.

John Eppstein: He's my handyman. And he is I knew I shouldn't do that. And I'm like, I should too, but I couldn't make you not do it, and so then you had to, then you had to put another motor in it at that point. So

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That, so he paid for a motor and a half Uhhuh.

Jimmy Lea: Yes, he did. Shoot, that's too bad. That's hilarious. Yep. Yeah. Speaking of being here tomorrow, and, I if the shop he would've gone to originally, if it was a Napa Auto Care Center, there may have been something you could have done to try and help him, but chances are that's not stuff that would've qualified as a Napa Auto.

John Eppstein: Exactly. Yeah. The, the Napa Auto Care shops are. They're good shops.

Jimmy Lea: You, they are good shops and I do appreciate the Napa warranty, the guarantee. The nationwide guarantee. Nationwide. Nationwide. That's where I take all my trucks, all my cars, they're always going to a Napa auto Care center because of that nationwide warranty guarantee.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I'm up and down I 15 all the time, and I just, I need to know that I'm taken care of, no matter where I am, where I'm going. I've got that reassuring. Yeah. Looking down the road, you were talking about being around for tomorrow and next week and next month and next year. Speaking of the future, what is the future for John's Automotive Care?

John Eppstein: That's a great question. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Our hope is that we'll be around for a while. Maybe add another shop or two. Again, you never know. The the last acquisition went a little rougher than I had hoped, and you end up costing a lot more money in the long run.

John Eppstein: Just so you know, if you go to get an SBA loan and they think you have too much money, they will not loan you any money, just so you know. Okay. Don't ask me how, don't ask me how I know, but I know. Oh, we know how, I know. Needless to say, I had planned on getting a loan for that acquisition and when it was unable to, and so I ended up having to write a check and of course I was.

John Eppstein: I had brought people in, manager, service advisor to train beforehand in the process instead of taking one month, took six months. So I had, three extra people on payroll for six months, which was a very large piece, investment. So things don't always go as, as you plan and, sometimes, it might have been smarter to walk away from, walk away from it instead of, doing the way I did.

John Eppstein: But I've always been one to, it's good opportunity. I'll make it work, I'll make it happen. It'll be a little struggle here and there for a while. And then, when we added the third shop the burden on the admin side became. Bigger. And that's when we really realized that our admin wasn't set up really well for where we were headed.

John Eppstein: So we're working, we're in the middle of revamping that right now, and once we get that all figured out and running smooth, then we can start looking at, do we add number four, number five, four and a half, five and a half, whatever.

Jimmy Lea: So what does the next acquisition look like? What are you what are what?

Jimmy Lea: Your radars are up, your sensors are out. You got spidey sensors going on. Yes. What does that next location have as the bare bones that you would consider?

John Eppstein: For me, the, my main shop is very large. My other two shops are smaller. They're seven eight bays. We have two service advisors, three technicians, one helper.

John Eppstein: That's a good. A good size shop they can run, it takes a little less to run that, obviously my main shop takes a lot of resources. So anything from that size to bigger, I don't think I'm gonna go for another 1820 bay shop, but you never know. I never say never.

John Eppstein: If something presents itself I've had a lot of opportunities to buy big shops and little shops. Some of 'em are just too little. You, so I have, so what's

Jimmy Lea: too little for you, John?

John Eppstein: Anything less, since six bays is probably 'cause you really, you've gotta have a manager, in place, especially

Jimmy Lea: for you as a multiple shop operator you need to have that autonomy and that structure.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. That allows for a bit bigger business. 'cause there's a lot of shops out there. Today that would love to have six bays, but they're not a six bay shop.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They would love

Jimmy Lea: to have eight bays, but they're not an eight bay shop.

Jimmy Lea: No.

Jimmy Lea: Those eight bay shops are a little bit fewer and farther between.

John Eppstein: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: When you draw that line that says, okay, seven or eight bays minimum. Yeah. That's what you gotta look at.

John Eppstein: Yeah. You gotta have a, you, it's good to have a plan in place. Yeah. Okay. I've already told you how the, shop number two, there was zero planning. Yeah. And it's almost eight years later, we're still going.

John Eppstein: We're profitable.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, good.

John Eppstein: It's it, you can make it happen, but as you, the larger you grow, you have to do less of that and more planning and putting things in place to to be successful. 'cause at the end of the day, you get too big and you just start, you start losing, you lose focus on the first shop.

John Eppstein: And it becomes unprofitable. 'cause you're paying attention to two and three and then, now four and five are suffering and, but oh, now I gotta go fix one. So you try to start fixing one and then four, five and six start going the wrong way. And it just, so people. You gotta have good people, it's so true. You can't pull something like this off by yourself.

Jimmy Lea: No, you can't. You've gotta have good managers in place. And these managers have to have bought into the vision.

Jimmy Lea: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: And they have to be able to have the capacity and the ability to disseminate that down the road, to the service advisors, to the technicians.

Jimmy Lea: That this is a daily grind. This is a daily incentive that we're working today so that we can come back tomorrow and our customers need to know that we're gonna be here. For the long haul.

John Eppstein: Yeah. And take care of them when something happens that

John Eppstein: And we're, we have stepped up in taking care of customer's cars that were outta warranty because we put an alternator on.

John Eppstein: We, we have a three or 36,000 mile warranty we put an alternator on. They go 14,000 miles. It's four years. Y fails. It's not supposed to fail in 14,000 miles. It's outta warranty. We don't have to fix it, but we will still step in, in cases like that. We'll, yeah. We'll take care of it. We, one of the first thing, first warranty jobs I ever did.

John Eppstein: I just moved in here. I had a customer from a long time. He brought me his Ford motor home and his radi, it sits most of the time and the radiator rotted out of course. So we put a radiator in it. My technician drives it, comes back, parks it, we call him. He comes and picks it up. He's driving it home.

John Eppstein: He gets just about home and the transmission goes out.

Jimmy Lea: No.

John Eppstein: So he tows it back and we're like, he's yeah, it just sits, it must've gone out. Okay. So we quote him a price on a Ford rebuilt transmission, 4,000, $5,000, whatever it is. So the guy that had put the radiator in, we had let him go.

John Eppstein: You'll know why in a second we let him go. When he installed the radiator, he didn't put the nuts that you're supposed to put in on the cooler lines. He put the cooler line, mashed it into the radiator. And so the co the radiator or so, or the transmission fluid wasn't flowing.

Jimmy Lea: Oh no. That's

John Eppstein: what caused the transmission to fail.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, no.

John Eppstein: And so I, my, I just got a new service advisor at the time. The guy's now my general manager, and he's what do we do? I says, there's only one thing we can do. We put a transmission in and we give it back to him. And he's we're gonna do what? So am I supposed to chart?

John Eppstein: No, we caused the problem.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah,

John Eppstein: but it's got 50,000 miles on it. I don't care. We cause a problem. We're taking care of the customer. So we put a transmission in. We don't, we haven't told the customer this at this point. So he comes in with his checkbook out. His name's John by the way. And he's how much do I owe you?

John Eppstein: And he's here's your keys. He says, okay, how much do I owe you? You don't owe us anything. What do you mean? So we explained to him what happened, and he literally looked at us and said, you realize that if you hadn't have said anything, I would've never known. That it was your fault. And of course my response was yes, but we did.

Jimmy Lea: But we would know Uhhuh.

John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah. And so free transmission, I didn't have the money at the time. It was, but that was the right thing to do. And so those are the things that you do for your customers. He still refers people to us and he tells that story and my manager, or my now general manager says, that was when I realized that I wanted to work for you until I retired.

John Eppstein: Oh, wow. Yeah. So stuff like that is powerful with your customers. It's powerful with your employees. 'cause they see who you are, the type of person that you are, and that you're, you're there. You know You mean business. I'm here to take care of my customers. And when I say we're here to take care of my customers, that proves that.

John Eppstein: I'm here to take care of my customers.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Transmission and all. Even though, we know our, my integrity won't allow me to say, yeah, $4,400. Yeah. Write a check. Your integrity says, Hey John, I'm sorry. Yeah. This was our fault and we took care of it. And here's your keys. Thank you very much. Yep. And here's some referral cards.

Jimmy Lea: Make sure Yeah, exactly. Out exactly.

John Eppstein: Because I just ate a transmission and I need some help Uhhuh. Yeah. And a Google review wouldn't be bad either. Yeah. Just don't tell 'em we I guess you could tell 'em we did it for free. But Yeah. It's it's just one of those things, it's the right thing to do at the end of the day.

John Eppstein: Oh yeah. And so many shops struggle with that, it's, but for me it's real simple. Something comes back in and is it possible that we screwed that up? Let's see. We put a radiator in, so I don't see how we could have, messed up the rear brakes. Okay. We don't need to take care of that.

John Eppstein: Okay. You come in and a hose popped under the hood. What did we do? Oh, we were working on belts and this and that, so it's possible that we broke, we leaned whatever we caused something. So we're gonna take care of it If there's any way possible that it, that we might have screwed something up.

John Eppstein: Even if we can't prove that we did we'll step up and we will take care of it.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You fault on the side of CYA, covering all the bases. Absolutely. Good for you, brother. That's a, that's awesome. And John, I also know that you are very supportive of the Boys and Girls Club. You've got a phenomenal fundraiser that you do every year. I've been able to participate a few times. Yes. The Boys and Girls Club. Why? '

John Eppstein: Cause I grew up in the club. I was lucky enough to actually go to the clubs that I work with now. I grew up going there. It was very different when I was a kid as at, to how it is now, but it was still, it was a place to go.

John Eppstein: I had fun. I don't remember being safe there, but I don't remember not being safe there, today it's, when we were kids, we always joke about it. What did your parents say? Come back when the lights, the street lights come on. That doesn't happen anymore.

John Eppstein: 'cause there's not a lot of trust out there. But, I went to the club, I learned I had fun, they took care of me. And so when I opened my shop, I was able to connect with my club and I just started working with them. And yes, I did my 23rd annual casino night. If anybody wants to send me some money for it, I'm still trying to collect another thousand dollars because.

John Eppstein: My goal was to hit $40,000 raised, and I was beginning to think we weren't gonna get there, and then all of a sudden we were at 41, 42, 45, 47. I shook some trees. We're now at 48, 5, almost 49. I'm hoping we're gonna get to 50. But it's $50,000 that we raised. Every dime that I collect goes to the club.

John Eppstein: I don't take money out for the events. A lot of fundraisers, they take money out for the event and things like that. Yeah. It costs me about $13,000 this year to put on the event and every dime I raised goes to the club. Yeah. I don't take money back.

Jimmy Lea: Are you still doing the casino nights for your fundraisers?

John Eppstein: Yep. Yep. Then we, this was this year's, it was in October, so I'm, I guess the gal from the club, she's ready to close out Casino. Nope. Nope, not yet. I'm gonna get to 50, so hang in there. So I'm trying to get there, but yeah it's really awesome. We have great staff and great clubs, so

Jimmy Lea: For sure.

Jimmy Lea: John, anybody who's listening to this, how can they go and donate to your cause for the Boys and Girls Club?

John Eppstein: You can go to casino night bgc.com. Casino knight bgc.com.

Jimmy Lea: Okay. And it's Ural Knights Casino,

John Eppstein: C-A-S-I-N-O, casino Knight.

Jimmy Lea: Knight One Knight. Yes. Yes.

John Eppstein: Let me type it in. I always type it in. I never say it.

John Eppstein: Casino Knight. Yeah. It's just casino night. Casino knight.com. Oh, I need to type in Casino Knight. Bgc. There we go. bgc.com.

John Eppstein: Yep. Casino night. bgc.com. There's no s in there anyway.

Jimmy Lea: Perfect.

John Eppstein: Other than in Casino,

Jimmy Lea: other than in Casino. So anybody that's listening go, donate a dollar, donate $5, donate $50 let's help get John over this $50,000 for the Boys and Girls Club. 'cause it, it is a phenomenal activity. It's something that is near and dear to John's heart because that's where he grew up.

Jimmy Lea: And it helps to provide a beautiful location, a beautiful facility for these kids that, that are, that need those services today.

John Eppstein: Yeah. I have friends whose kids have gone there that have thanked me because. They didn't know how they were gonna manage with their kids. And the club is an afterschool care program.

John Eppstein: And they could, the kid could get there by the bus, they could walk there, they could drop 'em off, and they knew that they were gonna be safe. 'cause today safe is what's important. Like I said, when I was a kid, it wasn't so much today safe. Safe is super, super important.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true.

John Eppstein: And we have amazing clubs, but we have even more amazing staff, which we could have the best club ever.

John Eppstein: If the staff sucked, the whole thing would suck. And so I, it just, yeah, it's just amaz it, it amazes me every time I go. We have a board meeting and we look out at the gymnasium and the balls are flying and we look down and kids are waving and it is just, it's a super cool, super, super cool thing.

Jimmy Lea: That is super cool, John, thank you for doing that.

Jimmy Lea: I appreciate it. There's so much happening for you on the day to day to day to day even. Let's talk A-S-C-C-A. Are you still on the board with A-S-C-C-A?

John Eppstein: Yep. On the state board. I'm the chapter president for my chapter and I'm on the Educational foundation board. I'm actually the chair of the educational foundation.

John Eppstein: Yes, I work very hard for the industry. I work very hard to bring new people into our industry. I'm also on the business acceleration team with A-S-C-C-A, which is a small group of three mighty shop owners that will answer the call when a shop is struggling or has questions. We are not coaches.

John Eppstein: We don't wanna be coaches. We just want to point people in the right direction, help people find a coach, a good coach as we know. Every coach can be great, every coach can be bad. It and it's not that they're bad, it's just different people react differently to different styles and different personalities.

John Eppstein: And so

Jimmy Lea: yeah, it's

John Eppstein: just talk, helping people talk through what they're looking for in a coach. And we don't say, oh, you should try this one or that one, or You should not try this one or that one. It's, what are you looking for? What's important to you? Okay. Make sure what you interview the coach for the company you're talking to, right?

Jimmy Lea: Yes. You need to ask these questions. As your coach, you need to ask these questions about their process, their procedure, their style. How do they hold you accountable?

John Eppstein: Yes. And again, it's, you need to talk. So like if somebody's gonna join one of your groups you have multiple people that run groups, right?

John Eppstein: I always tell 'em, you need to talk to. You need to talk to both of them to pick which one is gonna be better suited to your style and your personality.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And let's not even go with those two if they're looking just for coaching. Yes. One-on-one coaching. So they can come to the institute, we are month to month, they can stay for six months and bounce.

Jimmy Lea: They can stay for a year and they can bounce what do they need At some point? At some point, John, they're gonna get everything that they need from us and they're either gonna need another coach within the institute or they are ready and confident to be able to continue their path by themselves with the A-S-C-C-A or with their BDG group or with

Jimmy Lea: their

Jimmy Lea: chapter group.

Jimmy Lea: And that's the beauty of the institute is we've got 13 different coaches Yep. That you can work with if you wanna work with somebody that needs to help you with marketing. I've got three super good coaches with marketing. If you're looking for process, procedures, shop efficiency. I've got six good, really good process procedures, shop efficiency coaches.

Jimmy Lea: If you're looking for how do I structure my business best as a single entity to, to get it ready to go to multiple shop operations. I've got three really good coaches. Depends on what people need and that's where you need to be able to meet them. Yeah. Is it is not a rubber stamp? No. Kaka chunk Kaka.

Jimmy Lea: You gotta do this before we can go to that. No. We're gonna meet you where you are. And what do you need?

John Eppstein: Yeah. It's funny because some of the people that we've talked to we've, they've sent a request through the website. The asca.com.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: And so we'll sit down and we'll start talking with 'em and we're like, okay.

John Eppstein: And we get to that point where it's okay, now just remember we're here to help you find a coach. Half of them has said, I already have a coach. Oh no. Okay. And this goes back to why you need to talk to these people before you sign on with them, because they weren't getting out of their coach what they needed.

Jimmy Lea: And does that also mean that they are tied into a long-term contract with said coach?

John Eppstein: Not necessarily. I do, we don't get into those details a whole lot. Okay. I don't, I'm not even gonna tell you who the they were with 'cause I don't remember. It doesn't matter. It's just w why are you here?

John Eppstein: Why aren't you asking your coaches questions? I we don't see eye to eye. I don't get a lot out of them. And it's okay, then first thing you need to do is you need to fire your coach.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: And when I say fire your coach, that doesn't necessarily mean you kick your coaching company to the curb.

John Eppstein: You need to find a different coach.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: One that, that meshes with, again, your style, your personality, your beliefs, whatever it is, not. No. Two people can work with everybody. Every, everybody. True. And that's the big thing when you're trying to come up with a coach, is that you pick one that is gonna work for your style.

John Eppstein: When I looked, when I looked for a coach before I joined the Bottom Line Impact Group, there were certain things I wanted. I didn't want somebody to come in and tell me how to do it.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: I didn't want someone to kick me to the side and run my business. I wanted people that I could, Hey, this is what I'm thinking.

John Eppstein: What do you think? Oh, okay, great. And then hold me accountable. Yeah. And so that's why I chose the Bottom Line Impact Group, which is now your, that, I think that's the format that, that you guys are following is in, is with the bottom line impact groups

Jimmy Lea: thing. Yeah. We now call it the Gear Performance Group.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Or. Yep. And so we've got five different groups looking to add a six one this summer. Awesome. Hopefully I can add a diesel group here pretty soon. Yeah, that would be cool. We, yeah, it would be very cool. We've got a lot of diesel cars, diesel truck shops, and that's a different business model.

Jimmy Lea: Euro shops is a different business model. All makes and all models is its own

Jimmy Lea: business

Jimmy Lea: model. Yeah. So we've got quite a few diesel shops, so if you're a diesel shop listening to this, give us a call. Yeah. We wanna have a conversation. Let's talk. Yeah, absolutely. Ab what did you get, what did you get out of the group process that is different than the coaching process?

John Eppstein: What I would always say is that my group was my board of directors

John Eppstein: At the end of the day.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: It's I've been on lots of boards. People come in, this is what I'm thinking, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we all look at each other and we go, that sucks. That's great. That's awesome.

Jimmy Lea: Nice.

John Eppstein: And that's what happens. It's, here's my, remember when John Crunch pulled up my paper and said, that sucks. Yeah. Okay. That's what it is. And people, there's 15, 20 people in a group. They've seen it. Whatever it is you're thinking, most likely they've seen it.

John Eppstein: They've lived it, they've done it. If you get 19, yeah, that sucks. Yeah. It probably sucks. It probably does. If you get one or two that say, that sucks and everybody else says that worked great. It's probably pretty good.

Jimmy Lea: And I also love the group environment where you can bring a problem, an issue, a marketing idea.

Jimmy Lea: A marketing concept to the group and say, Hey, this sucks, but I need to make it better. How do we make this better?

Jimmy Lea: Or, I've got this mountain problem, oh my gosh, I, there's no way I'm can get over this mountain. In the group, they say, oh, Sally says I solved that last year. We had the same issues.

Jimmy Lea: Here's what we did. And then Joe says, Hey, this is what we did, and Sam says, this is what we did. Then you've got 3, 4, 5, 6 different solutions of other shops that have already solved it. The mountain becomes a molehill. You step over the mountain, you step over the mole hill, and now you're onto the next thing.

Jimmy Lea: Yep,

Jimmy Lea: absolutely. It's no longer paralyzing you because you worked with the group. They helped you to see your way through it.

John Eppstein: Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: you're onto the next thing

John Eppstein: and things are always changing 'cause. Today my problems are different than they were two weeks ago.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. It was

John Eppstein: different than

Jimmy Lea: six months

John Eppstein: ago.

Jimmy Lea: Now, marketing is not only is it Google and Google reviews and SEO, you now got artificial intelligence and you've got how do I gear my shop towards that, right?

John Eppstein: Yep.

Jimmy Lea: Oh that's awesome. John. I love what you're doing, brother. Yeah, thanks. Hey, so as we're landing this plane here, if you were to have a magic wand and you could change anything in the industry, anything in the automotive industry you have one wish, John.

Jimmy Lea: And you can't wish for more wishes? Nope. What would you wish to change?

John Eppstein: That everybody would work together.

Jimmy Lea: Amen.

John Eppstein: At the end of the day, the shops down the street are not your competition, I'm in San Diego. We have 500,000 cars that drive by my shop within a two mile radius every day.

John Eppstein: There's not a chance in hell I could fix all 500,000 even if it, even at 50,000. There's not a chance in hell. We have a huge shop. Our customer ra our customer base is four 5,000 people. Okay. Oh wow. Yeah. So if everybody worked together, everybody charged the right price, there wouldn't be this, oh, I can get that done for half price down the street.

John Eppstein: And then they would take people, take it to an inferior shop, get an inferior product, and then bad things happen. If everybody charged what they should, they paid their people what they should. Cus consumer would get a much better product, much more consistent product.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: Everybody would be profitable, everybody, employees would get paid well, and it would just be a better world.

John Eppstein: We have pretty good group in San Diego between A-S-C-C-A and the Napa, excuse me, the NAPA group.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

John Eppstein: It's great working with those guys, knowing they're taking care of people. They're charging what they should. They're paying what they should. So that's what I would hope for.

Jimmy Lea: I agree with you, John.

Jimmy Lea: Here we are wanting to raise the industry, raise the image of the industry, raise the overall performance of the inner industry. And John, I thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. That's exactly where we wanna be.

John Eppstein: Yeah. And I'm always the first one to tell people if they need anything to call me up and I'll share whatever.

John Eppstein: 'cause chances are I ripped off something that I can share with them. And when I say ripped off, it's, the groups I've been in, we share things and we just call it rip off and duplicate is the way of saying, Hey, I got this somewhere else. And,

Jimmy Lea: yeah, no, that's it. You've gotta share the information.

Jimmy Lea: Yep. There's really not that much original information, original concept here in the automotive aftermarket. We work hard. John, thank you so much, brother. I appreciate the time, effort, and energy. Thanks for carving out an hour to spend some time with me and talk about what the business that we love.

John Eppstein: Yeah, my pleasure. It's it's always great talking with you. You do, you've done great things in our industry. You've definitely helped to bring the industry along. So thank you for that. And just keep being awesome.

Jimmy Lea:Awesome. Thank you, John. Appreciate it, brother. All right.

Cybersecurity expert Dan Anthony explains why auto shops are common targets and how simple changes can dramatically reduce risk. He outlines key problem areas including weak payment security, shared logins, and flat networks that expose the entire business during a breach. Dan shares practical, low cost solutions such as separate user accounts, password managers, and isolating payment systems on their own network. The discussion also covers safer multi factor authentication, spotting phishing attempts with quick verification calls, and training teams through short, consistent reminders. The episode closes with clear guidance on backups, stressing the importance of testing them, storing them offsite, and keeping them encrypted.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Guest(s):

Dan Anthony, Cyber Security Expert

Show Highlights:

[00:01:21] – Weak payment security practices and shared logins are two red flags.

[00:07:10] – Keep card machines and payment systems on a separate network to reduce PCI risk during a breach.

[00:09:14] – Use a second router to segment payment or business critical traffic.

[00:12:45] – You don’t have to be perfect. Just be harder to hit than the easiest target.

[00:16:00] – Internet connected tools like cameras often create openings by requiring firewall access.

[00:18:02] – Split Wi-Fi into corporate and guest networks to keep personal devices off business systems.

[00:28:00] – Separate accounts, password manager, and a dedicated payment network.

[00:33:09] – MFA helps, but app or hardware based options beat text codes for security.

[00:36:21] – Best phishing defense is trusting your gut and make the quick verification phone call.

[00:45:00] – Backups only matter if you test them, store them offsite, and encrypt the drive.

Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!

Links & Resources: 

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Dan Anthony, and he is a expert in the realm and in the world of cybersecurity. So why would we have Anthony on with us today? Oh, that's a really good question.

Jimmy Lea: To get into that information and to get into this, I, I welcome Dan. Dan, welcome. How are you, brother?

Dan Anthony: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on today, Jimmy.

Jimmy Lea: Hey, you're welcome. So, hey, uh, cybersecurity. It, it's a, it's a big thing. It is something that's important and, and it seems like it never is getting the attention it needs until the world's coming to an end, right?

Jimmy Lea: It's true. Yep. Always, always. The way we all, we all get a new computer and we plug it in and it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, here we go, and everything's fine. And then it's not.

Dan Anthony: Until it's not. Yes.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Hey, hey. What, what is a, um, a, a typical small business cybersecurity red flag that you see or that you notice as you go around and visit small businesses?

Jimmy Lea: What's one of those red flags that's just so omnipresent? You can feel it when you walk in?

Dan Anthony: There's, there, there's probably two. I would, I would kick it off with. Okay. Uh, the first I don't see as prevalent. Uh, it's not as prevalent as it used to be, but there, uh, even five years ago, I would walk into any mom and pop shop and I would go and I would tap my debit card.

Dan Anthony: Uh, not tap it or I, you'd insert it. Right. And the idea with PCI compliance, right, is that you would insert it so it would read the chip. Yes. And then you would enter your pin. Right. But you know, there were a lot of cases where I would just go insert it. And, uh, the, the pin, right? Never asked for the pin.

Dan Anthony: And I, I loved just throwing that at a lot of these mom and pop shops and I would say, oh, yeah, you're, uh, skipping the chip and pin. And they would just say, oh, yeah, we, you know, we didn't want to pay the extra, you know, we didn't have the extra funds, time, whatever in place to add that extra piece of the pin.

Dan Anthony: And I, I would just kind of throw that out and say, you know, if there's a hack that comes through your shop. Visa won't cover you. Shut up. That's, that's A PCI, right? That's a PCI component. PCI compliance issue. Yeah. Right. So it used to be that if there was any fraud involved, visa, MasterCard, whoever they would, they would just show up and they would just say, oh, okay.

Dan Anthony: Yeah, we'll, we'll cover all, all the fraudulent charges. We'll charges, we'll refund it. And they would make everything right. But they got tired of paying all of that. Yeah. And so with the PCI rules that that was one of the. Big things I started noticing a few years ago and so I, I'd just kind of throw it out there and just say, oh yeah, you guys are skipping that.

Dan Anthony: Alright. Oh yeah, it was extra. Yeah, go ahead to to, to my

Jimmy Lea: ignorance. I thought that when that happened and I would put in my debit card, I thought if it didn't ask for my pin, it was just running it as credit.

Dan Anthony: Right. So there, there are times where it could just be running it as credit, but if, yeah, again, if it is running it as debit, that's, yeah.

Dan Anthony: There, there's a lot of nuance in there. And yeah. If you're a small business owner, is this right? Is this a

Jimmy Lea: huge, is it a huge amount that, that you've gotta sign up for with this pin code?

Dan Anthony: Uh, it's, it's just an extra fee, if I recall correctly at the time when I looked into it a few years back.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Dan Anthony: Uh, it, it was a percentage, right?

Dan Anthony: It was just an additional percentage. Oh. That the payment processors were taken. So instead of three and a half percent on a, on a credit, right? Or, or, or a little less, I think it was on debits as well. It, right. They just bumped it up. It adds up. Right. It really, it, it adds up over time really quick.

Jimmy Lea: It, it really does, especially if you consider the automotive industry where our average repair order is anywhere from 500 bucks to 1500 bucks.

Jimmy Lea: So on a, on a larger, on a larger bill, when you're talking about 3% of a $5,000. Yeah. I had to insert, I had to put a new shock struts, a water pump, a, a radiator. If $5,000 at 3%, it starts, you

Dan Anthony: know,

Jimmy Lea: that's, yeah. That starts adding up really fast. And that's why a lot of shops will run it as a debit because the fees are less and it's a direct transfer.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, even they're getting into now, uh, doing ACHs with banks.

Dan Anthony: Yes.

Jimmy Lea: And, and with, um, automotive repair. Yeah. Um, so that, that's interesting. So making sure that was number one. That was number one. Making sure you have the, the pin activated for your, for your chips.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. When, when you're getting that chip going, yeah.

Dan Anthony: They, they go together for a reason. Uh, and then the second thing, uh, that I see, especially in a lot of small automotive shops is that there is just one person. Uh, or one, I should say, one user account. When I, when I'm standing there at the front desk talking to whoever's at the front desk, they'll work on it for a second.

Dan Anthony: They'll say, okay, let me go check something. And they'll, they'll walk away and then someone else will come in and they'll start working on the same machine. And that's, that's one thing that just makes my, it, it just makes me a little fuzzy, right? Gets me a little nick Cage twitchy. When I watch that, I just go, how do you know who did what?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How do, where's the fingernails? On the chalkboard? That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. How dare you?

Dan Anthony: Yeah. You just don't have a, and it's, it's not that I'm particularly worried that, oh, you know, this person's gonna come change something on my account. Right. It's just being able, it's just being able to have accountability.

Dan Anthony: Right? Yeah. Of who made what changes, of who did what, and if there was an accident is where my brain goes. I wanna, you know, I wanna blame things on, on accidents, not maliciousness usually. Yeah. But Right. That's, that is one of the big things I see where it's just kind of a free for all and it's, it's, everybody doesn't have their own account.

Dan Anthony: And if you don't have an account on that Windows machine that that's at the front, I, it makes my brain kind of go. Are there any machines in here that you have your own account on? Is there any separation of, you know, who does what and how do you know if somebody adds an extra zero or forgets an extra zero?

Dan Anthony: Oh my gosh. When they're, when they're invoicing. Well,

Jimmy Lea: Dan, this is absolutely fascinating. We're talking about this, I mean, this is cybersecurity. You're not even the credit card guy, but here we are talking about cybersecurity, right? This is so important. So if I'm a, a mom and pop shop and I'm automotive aftermarket, and I've got two service advisors at the front desk, each one needs to have their own credit card processing unit, or are you saying.

Jimmy Lea: Just the computer, just their login when they walk away. Yeah. They should log out so that the next person coming in should have to log in.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Or, or uh, or just right lock the, they would have maybe the each, they, they each have their own, uh, uh, pc, uh, yeah. And yeah, they, if, if you have one, uh, PLS terminal, right?

Dan Anthony: One. You have one card machine. Yep. Yeah. Those card machines with, with, it's gonna come back to PCI because I've, I've been in compliance and on the compliance side of things for so long. That's, that's where my brain likes to go. But I, I would say, yeah, you keep those, those payment machines and anything related to payments.

Dan Anthony: Separate from anything else that, right. That's one of the, one of the first things, if there's a breach, that's one of the first things Visa does when they send forensic examiners is they're gonna look at your network and say, is, is every computer plugged in on the same network as these card machines?

Dan Anthony: That's how they are. And if they are, then all of a sudden all of those computers are within that scope of what they can look at and say, oh, this computer doesn't have these settings, so your entire network is not PCI compliant. Oh gosh, yeah, we're not gonna pay for that. Versus if you just have a separate network for those, for those card machines, then suddenly your scope is just that network with those card machines.

Dan Anthony: So if five of your customers come in going, Hey, I got weird charges on my card and Visa rolls that truck up, you can say, Nope. Everything with those cards is all on its own network. So yeah, I'm a, I'm a big, I'm, I'm big on keep things separate, right? Not just for accountability, but all also it makes things a lot easier, uh, if, if PCI ever becomes a, a big deal for you.

Jimmy Lea: For sure. And, and most shops don't keep any record of credit cards. There's, there's no, so they don't need encryption, they don't need that kind of stuff. Uh, it's just running the credit cards on the machine, on the unit itself. And you're saying make sure you've got a, a separate network. Yeah. Yeah. Easy.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Dan Anthony: Easy setup for whoever's setting your networks up, uh, if Right. If you have somebody coming in to do it. Okay. Uh, and the, I would call it the poor man's method of doing it. I actually do it at my own home for my, uh, uh, 'cause I, I have a work from home job, yeah. Where I took an old router and I plugged that router into my router.

Dan Anthony: At, right. So it creates a sub network that has a firewall. So there's nothing going between anything that's on that second router and your home network or the rest of the wor network. And you can just, right, it's, and that's, that's a great use for an old, old router that you're, that it, that can't be updated because once it's behind your main router, your Comcast router, your Time Warner router, it's.

Dan Anthony: Protecting That's doing. Yeah, that's doing the heavy lifting. You've just got the sec, second one in there to segregate and just say everything payment related. Everything work from home related just happens on this second router, on this network and segregated and

Jimmy Lea: uh Oh wow. It keeps it all separate.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And, and I love that, that that is gonna help a lot of shop owners. I, I can already hear the wheels turning in shop owners' heads saying, oh wait, you know what? That, that's something I can do that, that's easy. I can put this on a separate, I've got an extra router. It's in the closet. It's right here.

Jimmy Lea: Let's plug it in. And, and even if you don't, it's less than a hundred bucks. You can get another router. Yeah. And you're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. Most shop owners, most shop owners, they're, they're thinking about cars, customers, cash flow. They're not thinking about hackers, they're not thinking about PCI. Why would they even care about cybersecurity if nothing bad has happened yet?

Dan Anthony: Yet. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, I, I ac when I, when I worked for, uh, the State Department of Health, I, I would have some employees who would ask me that same question. They would, they would just say, Dan, I'm a low level employee, right. I'm not a manager. I'm not a director. I don't have access to anything that's, that's that important.

Dan Anthony: And I, I would just say, well, but you have access to the network. You have access too. Right? And it's, that's, that's all, that's all. Any, any of these outside entities want from you? If, if you are a, if you're a small business, if you're running a small shop, uh, you, you might be thinking, well, I, you know, I don't have a lot of cash flow, or I don't have a lot of money in the bank that could be stolen.

Dan Anthony: Uh, I would say, do you, do you have a. What's a, an EIN Do you have a, any social security number that might be flowing over, over any of those networks that somebody might wanna pull loans out in your name? Right? It's, it's not how, how much money you have, it's how much money they can get using your data, whatever, whatever way necessary.

Dan Anthony: Uh, so that's, that, that's one of the reasons I, I, I love, I love this work is right, keeping people safe from as much as possible.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Keep the honest people honest. So if you had, if you were, if you were to try and explain cybersecurity to a shop owner, uh, from, and, and, um, this is like an elevator pitch or, or the time it takes to walk from the front door to a bay door, what would you say to a shop owner to help them understand cybersecurity?

Dan Anthony: It's, uh, you're, you're running a race with, with every other, other small business owner. And you don't have to be the best, you don't have to spend the most, uh, you just have to be better than the worst. Right? You don't have to be the fastest person to escape the bear. You just can't be the slowest. Yeah.

Dan Anthony: You gotta be faster than that slow guy. Right? And it's, yeah, cybersecurity's, the, the exact same. Uh, when you're, when, when a, when a thief is, is say, walking through a neighborhood, driving through a neighborhood, they're looking for the easy targets, so. W what I say is don't go out and buy the Fort Knox of deadbolts and, and alarm systems.

Dan Anthony: Don't buy, you know, a one everything if you don't live in an A one neighborhood, otherwise, right? Otherwise, you're gonna make yourself a target, right? You're gonna overspend and you're gonna make yourself a target. Make, make it so that you're just enough, more difficult to deal with that it's not worth the hassle.

Dan Anthony: Okay. Right. Okay. If all, if all your neighbors are spending $20 on deadbolts and you go and spend $50 on one, then probably your place is just not worth the hassle of, of trying to break into. And it's the exact same idea with cybersecurity is there's a lot of people who don't spend any time on it. It's right.

Dan Anthony: They just, they, I, I don't have the time, or it's too complicated. And if, if you spend five minutes, you know, five minutes a week, there's, there's a couple hundred minutes a year that you've spent on it. That it makes you that much more, it gives that perception that, hey, this target's just not gonna be worth it.

Dan Anthony: Right. Why? Why would I go after these guys when, you know, the shop down the road has no protection?

Jimmy Lea: Well, speaking of deadbolts and in, uh, the automotive industry, they will go out and buy. The top tools, the top scanners, the top, whatever that it might be. So what, what kind of systems are, uh, in a shop that are the most at risk, where they might need that sort of an upgrade?

Jimmy Lea: Um, and I'm gonna give you some specific examples. Uh, their, their shop management system, the software, their, uh, emails that they're using, uh, whether it's Gmail or Outlook or QuickBooks or credit card terminals or wifi. Uh, wifi routers. What, what is, what are some of those systems that a shop owner needs to be aware of that they've got, that are at risk inside of their shop immediately?

Dan Anthony: The number one thing that I usually look to defend is anything that's, anything online, anything connected online that can be. That a software program can, that somebody, some kid in Russia and living in his parents' basement is just trying every IP address and running quick scans. So that's the right, and when you, when you install a a Windows machine.

Dan Anthony: First thing it, one of the first things it does is it turns on its own firewall. When you install the router you get from Comcast or Ex or, uh, time Warner, whoever, one of the first things that that does is it hit, it sets up a firewall, right? To, to shut off most of that, those sort of connections. Uh, so. Uh, a lot of that immediately gets covered.

Dan Anthony: But if I have cameras at my shop that I can access online, then I have to open up doors. I have to open up holes in my firewall and it for my app on my phone to be able to touch those cameras from the web right from anywhere if I've got a, you know, badge, uh, card or badge readers saying that. That talk out online.

Dan Anthony: Same idea. Uh, right. So that's, those are the first places I look is anything that's, any internet of thing things. Okay. Those are the bigs. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: So I'm, I'm hearing the cameras and I, I think a lot of shops do have cameras set up, uh, around their shop and they do monitor it remotely. Um, why? Because that's why we're, we're shop owners.

Jimmy Lea: We want to have that autonomy to be able to be away, to be on the ski slopes or on the golf course, or riding my motorcycle across the country, whatever the scenario is. So I see cameras being, uh, it sounds like an option, but I also have technicians in the bays and these technicians might have an Alexa, um, yeah, Alexa that wants to.

Jimmy Lea: Participate in the conversation or they're playing music. That's what I hear most of them, they're playing music on their Alexas, uh, their little echoes and the little dots and stuff like that. But also technicians have at their bays a computer so they can get online to check with Phi, the Ts, BS the, yeah, the, the difference, uh, Mitchell, uh, all data, when they need assistance in doing a repair, they're gonna get online.

Jimmy Lea: So that terminal. It becomes a target as well, right?

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, for, for situations where, where you're gonna have that mix one, uh, if, if you're using wireless per se, I would, I would say yeah, just set up two wirelesses. You have, you have the company wireless. Yeah. And just let 'em know this is corporate, right?

Dan Anthony: Only corporate devices connect. Right. Only the business devices connect to this one. And do you usually have a guest account? And guest?

Jimmy Lea: Okay. Yeah. Yep. So we, as a company, we only connect to the corporate account. It's usually the 5.0

Dan Anthony: right

Jimmy Lea: feed. Yeah. And then we've got a separate one that is our guest account, and it's usually at the 2.4.

Jimmy Lea: It's at the lower, uh, speed. But it doesn't matter. I mean, guests are there for short amount of times. Right. They shouldn't, they're probably streaming movies, but whatever.

Dan Anthony: That's so for me, I would, yeah, I would have at least those two where I would say corporate and only do corporate things on the, on that one.

Dan Anthony: And then if my employees have an Alexa, if they have any, if they have their own phone or whatever that they want to, they want to Facebook on while they're on break or whatever. Connect to the guest network, that's Oh, yeah, totally. Okay. That, that's what it's there for is, yeah. I mean, you could, so where's our

Jimmy Lea: credit card terminal?

Jimmy Lea: Where do we connect that to

Dan Anthony: Personally, I would have that on a wired, on its wired, uh, right wired and on its own, uh, unless I'm in, you know, Wells, Nevada, or, you know, Matis c Wyoming or, you know, some other tiny, tiny place, uh, where I'm not concerned about. About any sort of wireless, anybody, uh, coming in and trying to sniff my wireless traffic or anything like that.

Dan Anthony: If I'm in a big city, then I'm gonna take a lot more precautions with wireless. Uh, as far as right. My guest, my guest wireless network, I'm gonna say, okay, we're gonna want to change that password regularly. And regularly, meaning I I would say at least once a month. Uh,

Jimmy Lea: so are you serious once a month, you're gonna

Dan Anthony: change it?

Dan Anthony: Uh, that's, that's me If I'm in a big city, uh, okay. I would seriously consider it. And it's, it's a risk assessment, right? It's okay's, it's. The, the thing that I'm concerned most about with offering wireless Yeah. Is that somebody is gonna connect to it and they're gonna download something that's illegal, whether that's movies or adult films, or write other things.

Dan Anthony: Sure. That they're gonna download something like that and that's gonna come back to my IP address. Mm. And, and, right. I'm the one who's gonna get the phone call. Mm-hmm. And so. You know, or, or you just shut it off, right? It's 5:00 PM closing time also to, you know, whenever, whenever you get your wifi set up, you just say, no, I want my wifi around here.

Dan Anthony: Shut off too. Uh, so we don't have people, you know, in the parking lot at 2:00 AM using my fast wifi on my guest network to, to do unscrupulous things. Uh,

Jimmy Lea: that is absolutely interesting and fascinating. Uh, I hadn't even considered that. Shutting off your wifi, your guest wifi. Yeah. 'cause the only things on the guest wifi are superfluous.

Jimmy Lea: Alexa. Yeah. Cell phones, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Or customers that have been in previously. Yeah. So, uh, it shuts off at five. I like that. Well, and, and, and to this point, um. Because many shops think, oh my gosh, we're, we're small. No one cares about us. We're real small. But, but what is the cost of a small shop in real world terms, like lost days, lost data, lost reputation, what does that look like for a small shop?

Jimmy Lea: But, but, and here's the, here's the interesting thing, Dan. They're small shops all across North America. In big cities and small cities. Yeah. Urban and rural, it doesn't matter. Most shops are small shops and small meaning less than 30 employees. It's a small footprint. Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about real world lost cost

Dan Anthony: of, of.

Dan Anthony: Most of the time, and I, I think this is why a lot of folks feel like, it's like, it's not, uh, I admit I'm a hammer, so when I look around, I see nails. Right? But a lot of people just it, right? It's it. They don't know anybody that that's happened to, and they don't think it will happen to them because I'm not Chase, I'm not Wells Fargo, right?

Dan Anthony: I'm not a target. Uh, and it's y you're not. But when a program is just incrementing the each target that it's going after and saying, okay, I am looking after computer number one now on. Comcast's network. Now I'm looking at number two, number three, number four. And it just sits there. And the, the, that's what they do.

Dan Anthony: They, they crawl. And any, anybody who's thinking that through is going, well, why can't Comcast or or Time Warner shut that kind of thing off? And the answer is very easy because that would kill Google. Google does the same thing. They crawl and that's how they get their search results. It's the same sort of thing.

Dan Anthony: They don't do the same scans. But at any rate, to, to, to your question what I mean, what are we looking at? For a lot of people it's just gonna be lost, lost time and effort. Uh, yeah. So is, is it that you left some social media. Logged in, right? Or you clicked a link and they got a hold of your social media account and somebody started posting, you know, Chuck Norris jokes and you know, ha ha, that's great.

Dan Anthony: Uh, you know, everybody loves Chuck Norris jokes. Or is it more serious than that? Where, right, where we mentioned earlier, you have customers start coming in and saying, look, I've got charges being pulled off my card, and the only place I've used it in the last week or two weeks is here. Oh, and right where, where the first person you hear that from, you kind of go, well, yeah, go talk to your bank.

Dan Anthony: They'll help you with that. But when the fifth or 10th person walks through the door and says that you're in trouble, right? That's, yeah. That's, that's, that's where you start sweating and that Yeah. You, you know, real trouble is, uh, is definitely at your doorstep and, uh, how much can it be? It. It can be, it can be thousands, it can be catastrophic.

Dan Anthony: It, right. It just, it just depends. Yeah. And so, uh, a lot of times, especially with, uh, with PCI, where I'm gonna come back around to PCI, so if, if Visa comes in and they're, and they're doing an investigation and they see that no effort has been made. No thought has been put into it. I mean, you're completely non-compliant.

Dan Anthony: No efforts, no anything. You're on a flat network. Everything's plugged into that same network, all shared on the wifi, right? That's most likely in that case, visa is just gonna say, yeah, good luck. Yeah. We're not covering any of those costs from all of the people who got ripped off. In fact, you're gonna cover those costs and you're gonna cover the costs of our forensics team that.

Dan Anthony: As of 10 years ago, it was like a $10,000, just a truck roll was 10 grand for, for visa's forensic teams to show up at. Like it's, and I can only imagine what it's what it is now. Oh yeah. Right. So I mean it, yeah, it can be catastrophic. Most of the time it's right. It's just gonna be somebody posting Chuck Norris jokes.

Dan Anthony: That's, that's what we're gonna see most of the time. But. If you see the Chuck Norris jokes that should be, or, you know, somebody posting something funny or, or whatever on your social media, that really should be the wake up call of, oh, hey, yeah, that's, Hey, that was funny, but also I, I might actually have a problem.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, and, and most often you do have a problem. So how often are you getting those? Oh, crap moments. Uh, something hit the fan. Uh. They, they've definitely hacked me. Um,

Dan Anthony: oh, I've, I mean, you are in the business. I mean, that's just Tuesday for you, but No, no, no, actually, it's, it really isn't. Uh, I've, I've been officially, officially in cyber All we will, we will round it to between 10, 15 years and between all of the, all of the employers that I've been with there, there have been two.

Dan Anthony: Oh wow. Uh, two incidences where I can absolutely, without a doubt, say Oh, oh, yes. Uh, we, we had an a, uh, in, in the industry it's called an incident, right? Yeah. It's not, if it's not as serious as an incident. Right. You can call it an event, but, oh, geez. But yeah, there, there are a couple where, uh, yeah, where it was, it was an official incident and that was, uh.

Dan Anthony: My, my, my boss put it as a, uh, yeah, it's a, that's a, I hope you wore the brown pants today because it's maybe all weak and Yeah. Yeah. When you, when you're that deep in it, it, it's, it is scary. Can be, uh, can be. Oh gosh. And

Jimmy Lea: yeah. Well, let's talk about

Jimmy Lea: some, some simple practical first steps. What is something that.

Jimmy Lea: Or what not. Not even one. Let's talk about three. What are three basic things that shop owners can do this week? What, what should those fixes be?

Dan Anthony: Oh, uh, right outta the gate. Separate. Yeah. Separate accounts is, is one of my right, like I mentioned in the beginning. Right. Separate accounts. Separate accounts

Jimmy Lea: on the same computer,

Dan Anthony: right.

Dan Anthony: Whether it's on the same machine or across, yeah. Everybody has. Own login has, has their own login. Okay. Um, and that's, whether that's your Windows box or whether that's whatever online systems, especially in QuickBooks, anything accounting, right? You want people to have their own username and password.

Dan Anthony: Just, uh, again, not, not to protect from hacking, but just, just so that you have that accountability so that people, your employees and, and anybody who's in QuickBooks knows that they're not anonymous. Mm-hmm. Uh. Th so outta the gate. Yeah, that's separate accounts. Uh, just, just for that tracking. Second is passwords.

Dan Anthony: Uh, I, I'm a big proponent of use a password manager. They, if you're, if you're a small shop, 10 people, 20 people, that sort of a thing. A lot of times you can get a, a company license for a, for a decent password manager for one 200 bucks a year. Oh wow. And suddenly Yeah. That's,

Jimmy Lea: that's very,

Dan Anthony: yeah. It's, it's reasonable.

Dan Anthony: It's easy. It's, it's very, a lot of times, so for my, for my part, I, I, when I say I wanna see 30 character complex passwords on everything, which I can say I, I do at least 30 characters on all of mine because I have a password manager, and it takes care of all of that. Uh, and, and once you have ridiculous, crazy long passwords like that.

Dan Anthony: Uh, that's, that's where I can step back and say, okay, the bonus is now. I would, I would throw out that you only need to change those once a year. Okay. And you don't have to remember in the first place, but also, you know, during a slow time of the year if you have such a thing. That's, that's a great time to tell your people.

Dan Anthony: Okay. Go in. It's time to change passwords.

Jimmy Lea: Got it, got it. Alright, so separate logins,

Dan Anthony: password, separate logs, savers

Jimmy Lea: and passwords. All right. What? Gimme a third one.

Dan Anthony: Third, third, third, third. Uh, I'll, I'll go back to that network setup. I would absolutely have a se a separate Yep. A, a completely separate network segment for everything.

Dan Anthony: Payment related. Uh, yeah, just, just for PCI.

Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. That, that's good. So you're recommending, uh, uh, password savers. If, if, uh, if a shop were not to be doing password savers, what would be a good, uh, outline or a good guideline for, I mean, they're not gonna remember 30 characters,

Dan Anthony: right? That's, uh, I, I love, uh.

Dan Anthony: What are they? Uh, the word just left me pass phrases. Mm. So it's, it's the sort of, it's the sort of thing that you can write out almost a story and a password. Yeah, it is like a sentence. My parents met under the starry sky sort of a thing, or, oh, wow. My, you know, my parents met under the starry sky. One exclamation point.

Dan Anthony: Right. Yeah, great password because it's stupid long and horrible because I just posted it online for anybody who listens to this podcast,

Jimmy Lea: nobody's gonna do that one. It is like the guy that has 1, 2, 3, 4 is his password. No, nobody, yeah, they just don't do that.

Dan Anthony: Okay. They do. Yeah. Unfortunately people still do that, and so that's, yeah.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Don't do that. But yeah, use the password manager and. If you don't have one or you can't, again, it comes right back to risk assessment. Uh, if you're, if you're a big shop, if you're, if you're a shop in a big city, right? Where there's lots of walk bys, lot of foot traffic, uh, day and night, uh, that's where I'm gonna say absolutely, positively come down hard on anybody who writes down a, a password on a post-it.

Dan Anthony: And sticks it on their monitor or under their keyboard or under their mouse pad, or sticks their wallet in the end of their shoes at the beach. Right? These are the things, danger, right? These are the things we all think we're so clever, but, but if you're in a, if you're in a small shop in the middle of nowhere, you know, West Virginia or a small shop in the middle of nothing, Kansas, Kentucky, anywhere like that, if you have a book that has passwords written down in it.

Dan Anthony: You keep in a safe, I've, I would kind of say, you know, you don't have a lot of foot traffic. I can't, I can't say I'd fault you for that. Uh, because the, the biggest problem is gonna be somebody walking away with it. And if you don't have that traffic, uh, I would say there's probably other things you can do that would be, that would give you a better return on your time.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, most shops don't have the nuclear codes. They don't have credit cards. That's on file. What about multifactor authentication? Uh, MFA for short is, is it, does it matter? Should shops

Dan Anthony: skip it? I, yeah, I, I recommend it and use it, use it as much as possible. I will throw out that there, there are, there are different, uh, there are different tiers.

Dan Anthony: There are different types of MFA. If you have an app. On your phone or one of those little kind of key fobs that sits on your key ring. Those are great. Uh, you know, top tier s tier the kids would call it these days. That's, that's s tier. It's, it's, that's the, that, those are the ones we want. Then there are other ones that are where you get texted that code.

Dan Anthony: Just, just on your phone. And that one tends to be quite a bit less secure. Oh, really? Only for the reason that, uh, that cell phone companies tend to still tend to let just about anybody phone in and make changes on people's accounts.

Jimmy Lea: Hmm.

Dan Anthony: Uh, even if you've set up a pin with them, even if you've set up a code, there's a really great video on YouTube at a, uh, at one of the Def Con Hacking Conferences where a social hacker, uh, uh, a reporter walks up to a social engineering hacker and she says, well, give me five minutes.

Dan Anthony: I will have full access to everything on your cell phone plan, and all she does is she calls the company's customer service, and then on her computer, she starts a YouTube video of a crying baby. And she puts that next to the phone as she, and she's just saying, oh no, I know. I'm sorry. I'm not listed on the account.

Dan Anthony: But we've been living together for five years and he's probably just never got to it. And this baby is going crazy. And right just through, just through a YouTube video of a baby crying, she's able to social engineer her way through. Within just a couple minutes, she has full access to everything on this guy's account.

Dan Anthony: She's able to change numbers, she's able to write, add, and remove phones. And so at that point, anybody who does that can add a new number or change numbers, things like that. And suddenly any two factor that's being sent as a text message is gonna go to them too. Yikes. Oh, that's

Jimmy Lea: scary dude.

Dan Anthony: So yeah, the apps, the apps are great.

Dan Anthony: The, uh, Yuba keys are a favorite. Uh, but yeah, an app. What's a Yuba key? Uh, it's, it's another one of those little key fobs. Oh, okay. But it also has a, uh, a lot of times they, they will plug into a USB port and some of their higher models also make you put a finger on there. To give a little, gives a little resistance, a little electrical resistance, so it's something that cannot be done remotely.

Dan Anthony: Oh wow. Right. It's the sort of thing where you plug it in and you have to be at the machine because you're, you're providing that it's, it's an extra, but yeah. If, if, if you're into the tech and you want extra uuv key's worth checking out.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow.

Dan Anthony: Okay.

Jimmy Lea: Well, uh, bringing it back down to, uh, emails, because that seems to be a, a, a common way for hackers to get in.

Dan Anthony: Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: What are some of the most common mistakes or scams or phishing emails that you're seeing hitting small businesses right now?

Dan Anthony: Uh, shoot, every, everybody knows about the Nigerian prints. Uh, yeah, we do. Right. So I, but I still love bringing it up because that one's still effective in 2025. Uh, no way. And a lot of people look at it and go, man, you're either dumb or you're desperate.

Dan Anthony: And yeah. That's, those are the people it works on. Uh, mostly the desperate, uh, but the, the, the compromises that I'm seeing. Are, uh oh wait. Almost always intelligence gathering. Uh, so you're, so you're getting an email and it's from somebody that you know, right? It's some, it's from another, somebody from another company that you've worked with, something like that.

Dan Anthony: And, uh, this, this one, I, I just saw a couple years ago, uh, a lady in a, in loans, I think it was one of the loan departments. Mortgage. Yeah. Uh, not mortgage, but in, in, uh, it was one of the. Uh, yeah, personal loans, type

Jimmy Lea: of deal.

Dan Anthony: Loans. At any rate, she got an email from a, someone she had worked with prior, uh, a city employee, and he said, Hey, we've got this RFP out, I've attached the PDF.

Dan Anthony: So she opened it and she goes through and she starts filling it out. But then she called me and she said, look. Everything about this is normal. I work with this guy regularly. He sends me these RFPs regularly, but inside this PDF, there are two lines in here that are, that have no business being here, and so just her gut was saying this, this is not right.

Dan Anthony: I told her, I just said, yeah, I can, I can, I can scan 'em. And so, you know, I scan the email, I scan the PDF, and there there's nothing, there's nothing technically wrong with those. And so I, I called her back and I just said, you know, if you, how well do you know the guy? She says, you know, pretty well, we've worked on a few projects.

Dan Anthony: I said, best thing you can do is call him ten second phone call. Hey, did you send this email? Why do you need, you know, why do you need this? You know, you don't have to, you, you don't have to be confrontational. Just, Hey, did you, did you send this, this? It's got some new forms. There were changes in there.

Dan Anthony: And 30 seconds later she was telling him she was the method of informing him at the city that the city's email system had been compromised. Oh, wow. And. Uh, right. So I I love the 32nd phone call. Oh, yeah. As, as a security, because how, how often are we getting completely outta the blue emails from strangers versus most of the work we're doing over email, like 80% of the work we're doing is with people we already know.

Dan Anthony: So. If the, there's that gut check. If something looks wrong, feels wrong. I mean, you can, you, you do all the usual checks of, you know, you look at the links and you hover for a second, and if you're seeing weird stuff, yeah, there's, there's a lot of that misspellings, grammar, uh, you know, things like that. But, uh, yeah, the, the gut check and the 32nd phone call is absolutely my favorite.

Jimmy Lea: I've gotten that. I've gotten that. RFP, uh, in fact, do you know, do you know Watt.

Dan Anthony: I do not.

Jimmy Lea: Dino is in our chapter, the Mountain West National Speakers Association. Oh, alright. So Dino sent out a, an email, but it wasn't him. He was hacked and I called him and I was like, dude, are you putting on some sort of a summit meeting or what?

Jimmy Lea: What's going on? He's like, dude, I got hacked, man. Don't fill it out. Don't open it. Well, I already opened it. I already looked at the PDF.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I just deleted

Jimmy Lea: it all. You know, the other one that I've seen too happening here quite recently is. An email goes out and it says, uh, we're trying to update our accounting software and we lost everything.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How much do I owe you? What do I owe you? What's the invoice number? Send me all this information. Yeah. And it's like, oh my God, no. The total scammy. The other third one that I've seen, and it's happened a lot, is I'll get an email from Cecil Bullard saying, Hey Jimmy, I need you to do me a quick thing.

Jimmy Lea: I'm in a meeting. Uh, can you run down to the store and get a couple of gift cards and send 'em out to x, Y, z? Right.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Anytime gift cards are involved. Yeah, you can, you can just about, just about, it's 99.99. Nine nine. I don't have enough nines memorized. Nope. Percent of the time that Yeah. It's too infinity.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. But yeah, the, it's, yeah. Again, the 32nd phone call. Hey, we're updating our software. Hey, we're, uh, yeah. I mean, a surprising scam that continues to work is the, uh, the, just the out of the blue invoice. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, oh dude. Yeah. I got one from I, we were at sema. We were at sema, and I'm getting this email and I'm going, this is from Freeman for the power, but this is so sketch, this looks so right.

Jimmy Lea: They didn't spell our name right. They didn't use the proper name of our business. Da da da da da da. Yeah. I really don't believe this. So I ignored it and I was like, Nope, not gonna answer. It comes again. Nope, not gonna answer it. The woman came to us, the booth at SEMA and was like, Hey, you guys still owe us $227.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's a real one. I totally thought it was fake. I totally dismissed it as spam because there's no way there's, it looks so sketched, dude.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's so, even the real thing can

Dan Anthony: look sketchy and Absolutely. Yeah. That's, yeah. The phone call, that's right. Back to the, yeah. You, you, uh, the phone call, the gut check.

Jimmy Lea: You gotta make sure you're listening to. Your spidey senses and, and that you're paying attention to what's going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't fault a 32nd phone call. Alright, so, um, let's talk about this from a, a shop owner's point of view. How can they train their teams on these cyber threats without killing them and boring them to death?

Jimmy Lea: PowerPoint them to death? You know, how do we, how do we not kill the team and, and still convey the message,

Dan Anthony: uh, for, for, uh. I, I used to do those sorts of trainings and I, I kind of hate myself for it, for ever taking part in any, any security cyber training over an hour because I, I know I'm the only person in the room who loved it that much.

Dan Anthony: Uh, for my part, I, I suggest frequent and, and short. If you do five minute, 10 minute. Yeah. Stand up. Yeah. Uh, my, one of my favorite trainings with the previous employer was a, uh, uh, once a week I would send out an email that I worked my tail off to make sure was never longer than two paragraphs. I wanted it to be one, right.

Dan Anthony: I wanted it to be something that was 30 seconds, maybe 45 people could read real quick and say, yep. There, you know, there's a good reminder. Got it. Boom. Uh, the, the second part of that is if, if you hear somebody suggesting 30 character long passwords, right. That's. That's rough if you don't have a password manager or if you don't have a passwordless solution where you can, you know, do a, a, a facial recognition or a fingerprint or something like that, which surprisingly, uh, is, is getting more like you can get a $15 fingerprint reader at Walmart, things like that, where you make it easy.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Where you don't have to do a 30, uh, huge password because all we have to do is, uh, on one my laptops. That's biometrics. Yeah. I swipe my finger and it logs me in. Nice. And, and that's it. It's great. Uh, so yeah, I would say if, if you want great security, uh, skip the training as much as you can and just make it, make it something that's easy and part of the workflow so that your, your people don't even, right, they're worried about fixing cars.

Dan Anthony: Leave, let 'em be worried about fixing. You know, why? Wondering why that radiator or why that, uh, alternator just fell out. Well, it fell out 'cause you didn't tighten the bolts dummy. But, uh, I may or may not have had that experience with an alternator once. I will neither confirm nor deny.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, you're such a straight shade tree mechanic.

Jimmy Lea: You are working on your own stuff. It does happen. No, no, no. So let's bring this back here into, um, into cybersecurity and, and, and, yeah. I wanna look at like a, um, we talk about backups, we talk about recovery. We talk about what is your SOP for the bad day plan. Yeah. Perhaps hit the fan. Do we have a backup?

Jimmy Lea: How does the shop know if they're actually having a backup?

Dan Anthony: Uh, if, if you're, if you're, if, let's say you've got QuickBooks, if your QuickBooks is hosted. On your computer versus is it hosted online? That's the pertinent question. Uh, so if you have apps that are host, if you have a server in your office, yeah.

Dan Anthony: Tho those backups are, I would do those frequently and check them to make sure they work at least, you know, once or twice a year, make sure your backups work alternately, if you're, if you're in a QuickBooks Online. Right. Or if you're, if, uh, I've. I hesitate to say, put all of your, use all of the web versions of whatever software you can, uh, just because it's less control.

Dan Anthony: And I, I, I like having control. But if you push everything off to those web versions, then they have to worry about the backups and they have to worry about the compliance, and they have to worry about fail safes. And if your computer goes down. It's, Hey, hey, Jimmy, run down to Best Buy. Here's the credit card.

Dan Anthony: Right? He goes, buys a new laptop, you plunk it down and everything's online. So all I gotta do is log back in and we're right, we're right back up and running. So there's definitely pros and cons, uh, to, to both methods. Uh,

Jimmy Lea: yeah. But, and what I, what I do, and I'm, I'm holding up my external hard drive. It's a, yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Two terabyte or 10 terabytes, something like that. It's ginormous. Every Friday I plug that sucker in and let it run

Dan Anthony: and back up.

Jimmy Lea: Does its back up over the weekend, however long it takes. I don't care. It does its thing and, and that way, if ever poop hits the fan, I've, I can run to Best Buy, get another computer.

Jimmy Lea: I have this that has all of the physical stuff on it, but then I also have a computer with all my cloud-based stuff.

Dan Anthony: Perfect. Yeah. And that's, that's great. I, the only, the only addition or addendum I would throw on that is where you store that drive matters, right? If you're storing that drive in a fire safe right inside your shop, oh no, it's on my desk, right?

Dan Anthony: And your shop burns down your toast, right? Yeah, yeah. You lost your computers and even if it's in a fire safe, most likely it's gonna wreck. Any data drives inside a fire safe. So yeah. If, if you've got backups like that, it's always a good idea to make sure your backups are, if Yeah, you plug it in, you do it, and then get it off of that, you know, out of that site.

Dan Anthony: Whether it's out of the property. Yeah. Whether it's an earthquake, a fire, a, a flood, whatever you Yeah. You just want to, yeah. I got some separation. And if you're doing that, yeah. Make sure those backups are, are encrypted. Right. So nobody else can just, you know, find your backup and then have all the keys to your, to your business.

Jimmy Lea: Yep. Plug and play. They would just be right in on everything. Oh my gosh. Well, I hadn't even considered that. Take it away from the shop, which, I mean, there, there's a whole nother challenge. 'cause that's when you got 48 hours that that backup is running and it's available. And if somebody breaks into your shop.

Jimmy Lea: They grab that backup. They've got all the data, all the information, all, yeah. So if you're not encrypted, then if you're not password protected, they can plug and play, and now they've got everything. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, thank you that that was, that was a good one even for me. I, I like that one.

Dan Anthony: It's fun.

Dan Anthony: It's, it's, it's a fun thing to think about, theoretically. It's not fun when it's happening in real life.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, I mean, here we are talking about backups and recovery. I want to di dive into that deeper, but, uh, we're, we're running to the end of our hour here. I, and we didn't even get into wifi and devices and vendors and, and talking about those types of things.

Jimmy Lea: I mean, shoot, we're gonna have to circle back and do this again, Dan.

Dan Anthony: There is so much that it, and it touches on everything. Oh, yeah's, budgets,

Jimmy Lea: priorities. What's the non-negotiables? What are the nice halves? Yeah. What's the must-haves? We, we didn't even get into any of that.

Dan Anthony: There's all sorts of great stuff.

Jimmy Lea: All right, so we will circle the wagons. We'll do this again, but I want to hit you with a couple rapid fire lightning questions. Bring it on. This is meant for you to answer in short one sentence answers. Are you ready?

Dan Anthony: As best I can. All

Jimmy Lea: right. What makes the single easiest cyber mistake small shops make every day?

Dan Anthony: Uh, ly. Uh, I would passwords, I'll go with passwords that they're, they're either shared or they're shared or reused or just, just not monitored at all.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I liked your, uh, one about the credit cards, credit card separation machine being on the same Yeah. You gotta separate. Yeah, separate. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Strong password or multifactor authentication. If you could only pick one, which one wins?

Dan Anthony: Oh, don't do that to me. Uh, I'd probably go with the cyber community is gonna kick me out, but I would go with strong password. Uh, I've, yeah. I can hear the hate mail

Jimmy Lea: coming already. Right. Okay. Biggest wrong password flag?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Biggest red flag in an email that says, do not click me. Urgency. Ooh. Yeah. Yes. Okay. How often should a small shop change critical passwords? Uh, 30, 60, or 90, or one every year.

Dan Anthony: If, shoot, that's not a one. Ans it's not a one question, one, one word answer. If it's like a 10 character password. Uh, yeah.

Dan Anthony: Change it every 30 to every 45, 90 days. Uh, if it's like 30 characters plus once a year. Got it.

Jimmy Lea: More dangerous in your opinion? Uh, public wifis or reusable passwords.

Dan Anthony: Uh, reuse passwords.

Jimmy Lea: On a scale of one to 10, how risky is it to share one login for the whole front office?

Dan Anthony: Do you do background checks for your employees?

Jimmy Lea: Um, yes and usually. It happens after they have already started. Yep.

Dan Anthony: How much do you trust your people? That's, yeah. Wow. You know? Yeah. How much, I mean, are they, are they in debt? Can they be leveraged? Uh, yeah. Ouch.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I know a lot of horror stories, unfortunately about that one. Yeah. Alright. If a shop owner can only secure one thing this week, what is it?

Jimmy Lea: Email, wifi, or backups, where do they start?

Dan Anthony: Oh, email. It's, it's the most connected. That's WiFi's. Localized backups are local. Should be localized generally. Yeah. Yeah. We e email's. The most connected, the most online. So I'd start there.

Jimmy Lea: What cybersecurity tool or feature would you wish every shop turned on today?

Dan Anthony: Uh, password manager. Right. I told you everything was gonna come back to passwords, and it's, I, it does. I hate how much it does. I hate how much it does.

Jimmy Lea: All right. Fill in the blank. If you don't have this in place, it's not a matter of if you'll be hit, but when, if you don't have this in place, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Dan Anthony: Yeah. Good, good. Uh, password hygiene. Mm. Right. If your people are never changing their passwords, they're probably also reusing them. Uh, yeah.

Jimmy Lea: That sort of thing. What's your one word reaction when a shop owner says, we're too small for hackers to care about us.

Dan Anthony: Wrong?

Dan Anthony: Mine was idiot. Yeah, lull. Yeah. No, it's Lowell. Lowell. LOL, right? Yeah. It's no if, if you have money or you have credit.

Jimmy Lea: If you have information. Yeah, and that's what we have.

Dan Anthony: And any of that, anything, anything valuable is a target.

Jimmy Lea: Oh man. Dan, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate being able to talk with you.

Jimmy Lea: Uh, if people need to reach you, reach out to you, how, how can they contact you? What's the best way for them to get in touch with Dan Anthony?

Dan Anthony: Uh, easy to, uh, just, uh, throw me an email just [email protected]. It's all spelled normally. Uh, or, or you can, I mean, you can throw me a message at my website.

Dan Anthony: That's, uh, dan anthony speaker.com. Uh, there's a little message for him on there, but yeah, either one of those. Is, uh, is a great way to, uh, get ahold of me and I'm, I'm happy to chat.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Love it. Appreciate it Dan. Thank you very much and thank you to you and your knowledge and information and to the automotive aftermarket.

Jimmy Lea: Thank you for keeping us on the go. On the Move Safe and sound. Not only does that apply to you, Dan, that also applies to everyone that is in the automotive aftermarket. Thank you for all you do. You're awesome. Thank you. Alright brother. Talk to you real soon. Thank you.

Dan Anthony: Thanks, Jimmy.

William Bowe shares how he went from tinkering with his grandfather to earning his Red Seal and owning two shops in Canada: Bruno Automotive and CG Motorsports. He walks through buying a business during COVID, learning cash flow the hard way, and working two jobs to keep things stable. William explains his growth strategy: build a repeatable service model, then adapt it to different vehicle brands and customer bases by location. He also highlights why restoration work often comes down to emotion, and why understanding customer motivation matters. He closes by calling for a better public perception of the automotive industry as trusted problem-solvers.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Guest(s):

William Bowe, CG Motorsports / Bruno Automotive

Show Highlights:

[00:01:26] – William shares how working on cars with his grandfather sparked his interest in the automotive trade.

[00:02:26]  – He describes moving from tire shops into European dealerships and earning his Red Seal early.

[00:03:23]  – COVID forced a career crossroads between dealership life and independent shop ownership.

[00:04:13] – Buying a shop during the pandemic meant learning business ownership under intense pressure.

[00:06:12] – William explains why he worked two jobs for years to stabilize cash flow and reduce risk.

[00:09:24] – A gradual ownership transition at CG Motorsports created a smoother path to full control.

[00:14:12] – His advice for expansion centers on mastering one business model before scaling it.

[00:15:07] – He breaks down how the same service model supports different brands and customer bases.

[00:18:24] – A personal restoration project shows how emotion often outweighs logic in classic cars.

[00:27:27] – William shares his wish to improve public trust and perception of the automotive industry.

Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!

Links & Resources: 

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Episode Transcript:

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Show Summary:

Wayne interviews Freddy and Lucas of Northeast Motor Repairs about launching their shop from scratch and overcoming early financial struggles. They explain how trust, communication, and coaching helped them correct underpricing, improve processes, and quickly boost profitability. The team shares how implementing a parts matrix, TechMetric, and structured systems transformed their workflow and customer experience. Freddy and Lucas highlight the value of mentorship, integrity, and learning from mistakes. They also discuss future goals, including scaling to multiple locations and building a business that runs without their daily presence.

Host(s)

Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach

Aldo Gomez, Industry Coach

Guests:

Freddy & Lucas, Owners of Northeast Motor Repairs

Show Highlights:

[00:00:00]  – Wayne introduces Freddy, Lucas, Aldo, and the Northeast Motor Repairs success story.

Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!

Links & Resources: 

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Wayne Marshall: Hello, this is Wayne Marshall, coach and CEO here at the Institute. I welcome you today as we have gathered to, uh, interview in this webinar, one of our existing customers, Northeast uh, motors Repair. Today we're. Freddy and Lucas joining us along with Aldo, who is one of our other coaches, and, uh, also helps with our APG program, our advisors performance group program, and, uh, have this opportunity to visit with these folks as to what they've been doing, the success they've been having.

Wayne Marshall: As to some of the things that have been going on is they have started this business from scratch just about 18, 19 months ago to where the success of what they're having today. So, gentlemen. Welcome, glad that you're here with us today. Uh, today I'm gonna start off with, uh, Freddy first. Freddy, I want you to gimme just a little bit of background, if you would, of what first drew you into this industry and why you do what you do.

Freddy: Sure thing. Yeah.

Wayne Marshall: Thanks for having

Freddy: us. So, um, I began selling cars with my father and I was always business minded, and that's actually what I studied in, uh, college. And what drew me into this was actually that we needed to get cars repaired to sell. And that's how I met Lucas. We started working together and, uh, finally reached a goal that we had collectively to open up a, a repair shop together.

Freddy: And actually the business here was so busy that we weren't actually able to repair any of the vehicles we had for sales. And we started making that transition over to to work here at Northeast Motor Repairs.

Wayne Marshall: If you would do me the honor, uh, for those that'll quickly find out, uh, Lucas is very fluent in Spanish and learning English, so we're gonna do part of this, uh, webinar today in Spanish. So. If you would ask that same

Aldo: Sure. Absolutely. So, uh.

Aldo: Excellent. So what, what, uh, what, uh, uh, Lucas has shared is that from his native country, is that, uh, fuel is not the greatest grade of fuel. So he started at a young age working on mainly Carre systems and such, and that's when he began learning to work on vehicles from the necessity of having subgrade fuel.

Aldo: And he met Freddy's, uh, Freddie Senior or Freddy's father. Years ago, and Freddie's senior or Freddie's father would call and ask, uh, Lucas for help every now and then. And it became more and more often. And Freddie Senior at one point said, well, you know, what's it gonna take for you to work with us full time?

Aldo: And uh, here we

Wayne Marshall: are. So, so question here, and I'll start with you, Freddy. Uh, what's been one of the biggest challenges, because as I've already asked, and we know, and for the, for our audience, you guys are not related. You're just your friends. Uh, and you know, in a lot of cases when we talk to people in this industry, you get brothers or cousins who come together.

Wayne Marshall: And sometimes in this case, friends, um, in the year and a half plus you guys have been working together, what's been some of the biggest challenges that you have faced to get this business going and started? And then, yeah, we'll jump over to Luke, uh, Lucas and his,

Freddy: yeah. So one of the things that, uh, we knew when we began a business is that, um, we're cognizant that many businesses can fail, especially being friends or.

Freddy: Brothers or anything related like that. Mm-hmm. So from the very beginning we, we really laid out that anything that we had come up, we would immediately address it. And we wouldn't let at any point there be a moment where there was something we had bubbling up inside. I think it was really important to let any of that stuff out immediately so that way we nipped it in the bud and we could continue moving forward.

Freddy: And actually, um, as we progress, there's less and less of those moments, but it was important to take care of the ones that. We're gonna begin from the very beginning, so that way it wouldn't evolve into anything and we could continue a successful, uh, business relationship.

Aldo: Fantastic. Okay.

Aldo: Okay, so Lucas's answer to, to the same question was that, um, that they had a, that Freddy and Lucas had established a long time ago. Foundational trust where mm-hmm if a situation, obstacle, an issue came up, that there was a hundred percent confidence and trust within the team that they could figure it out.

Aldo: And there's no reason that, uh, that we can't all tackle that problem.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah, I agree. You know, it's when you start any business, and especially when you start a business from scratch with partners, there's challenges. And if you can't have good, clear, concise collaboration and communication. You guys are, you are.

Wayne Marshall: It can just blow up and it can turn into a very disastrous, which nobody wants. I mean, obviously you did this not as a hobby, but to build it and create something that can become your career and something that has longevity and legacy to it based on past conversations that I know we've had. Um, so.

Wayne Marshall: Thinking about that and as we just talked about you guys coming together, share a little bit of, you know, 'cause there's a many of people that we work with that are starting their business or their service industry, business from scratch, and they're trying to build it up. What was one or two really big challenges or growing pains or hurdles, however you wanna look at it, that you had to overcome in those early days when you started up.

Freddy: Yeah, so we were definitely doing a lot of things wrong the first few months. The first few months we would be negative in the bank account every week and every month and many, many months. Lucas and I couldn't afford to pay ourselves anything. Um, we were definitely scraping through and a, a huge problem that we actually addressed early with, uh, the help of the institute was that, um.

Freddy: We were working on too many cars, so we were working on too many cars and still negative in the bank account. What we realized was that we were undercharging and undervaluing our worth, um, and that would really, ultimately, ultimately even lead to, you know, miscommunications with clients, uh, time crunches that we could not meet.

Freddy: And, uh, ultimately it was, it was hard for everybody, for us, and the clients included. Mm-hmm.

Wayne Marshall: What would you add to that, Lucas? I'll let, uh, Aldo help cover.

Aldo: Perfect. So

Lucas: the,

Aldo: uh, what Lucas has, has added to that is that, aside from the difficulties of overworking on cars and such was that, uh, they, there was no process yet on how to process customers from when they show up to when they leave. And they often felt like, uh, somewhat. A vote without a rudder. Right.

Aldo: Or, or lost on what, what to do with the customers. And since they've been introduced to the institute, we've been able to bring a lot more process and framework into the organization where, uh, we can figure out what the next step or we know what the next step is.

Wayne Marshall: Yeah. No, we, uh, I remember some of those first calls that we had and we're looking at. Everything that's going on, and I, I wanna tell a quick story because I love the story. Freddy and Lucas. Mm-hmm. Um, we had our very first call and you laid out and you were very transparent with the challenges. What was going on?

Wayne Marshall: You, you know, the money in the bank and XXY. I mean, we just went through it and I can remember we said, well, I know I told you right away. I said, if, if you do anything. Raise your rate and raise your rate right now because you are, you are right. You're undervaluing, I believe what you're doing and your services.

Wayne Marshall: So we talked and we left and uh, two weeks went by and we had our second phone call or second zoom call with you. And I remember you kept both, got on, you both had big smiles and I said, how's it going guys? Who were like, we got money in the bank, right? Because up until then it was a struggle. You didn't always have money in the bank.

Wayne Marshall: And all of a sudden it's like, yeah, we've gone two weeks, we've been busy, and today we've paid all our bills and we still have money in the bank. Right? And it's the simple things of knowing your numbers. Aldo preaches it. When he talks to the advisors program, we talk about it and his stuff. It's, you gotta know your numbers and you gotta know where you're going and what you're doing.

Wayne Marshall: So, um, yeah, it, it was, it brought a lot of joy to us to sit there and talk and see that, hey, we made a difference in the matter of two weeks, we moved the needle. But, you know, and I know that wasn't, that was only the beginning. There was a lot more we've done as we've been working through some of the things.

Wayne Marshall: What are some of the key items that you felt have done the most for you, besides just raising your rate, but what are some of the key items that have paid the biggest dividends or done the most for you as you've been building out and fixing or putting the processes in place?

Freddy: Yeah, so Lucas and I have actually been talking about this a lot lately, and there's, there's some things that we noticed from the very beginning that, um, was very helpful.

Freddy: So, um. We found the institute on, uh, U2. We noticed a, a podcast that spoke about a parts matrix. Mm-hmm. And as soon as we, we implemented that, that gave us results right away and we were able to, um, see the benefit of it. And that's actually what led us to subscribing and then joining this team. When we had our meetings, um, you suggested that we get a, uh, different software programs.

Freddy: So we ended up using Tech Metric that was able to consolidate and put a whole bunch of different, um, tools together that allowed us to save a ton of time. Uh, I remember focusing and I used to have to. Uh, use the parts matrix, but we'd have to use it, grab a calculator and put in every single number and every part number one by one and spend hours to create.

Freddy: Once inro, it would be ridiculous time wasted, but as soon as we implemented, uh, type metric, we would save hours and be able to help a lot more people and do a lot more things like I, uh, dbis where we'd be able to send inspection reports and things like that. It looks more professional, it looks way more professional, and because it is.

Aldo: Fantastic. So

Aldo: parts matrix.

Aldo: Fantastic. What a, what a what a great answer. And, uh, what a special team it is here based on, you know, what Lucas's response was. And Lucas is, uh, saying that he was a bit apprehensive about wanting to move forward on any kind of, not just training, but not knowing Sure. What move to make. And it, and Freddy really led the way in a very.

Aldo: Good form, like a true leader moving forward in that the, that uh, the in coupled up with the institute, then Freddy and the Institute, then Lucas now being able to trust Freddy, that they're gonna make the right move in the right direction. Uh, it's that Freddy has been, uh, spearhead. The move forward and getting and then enrolling with the institute, which has given Lucas some more confidence in, in what he probably would've not held back on.

Aldo: So that's huge.

Wayne Marshall: It is. Well, I've, I've, I've said it to both of you before. I mean, I couldn't be more proud of the success, uh, the growth. Just how you've approached from, not that you guys didn't approach it with a level of professionalism, but it's been a lot of fun to work together. And what makes it so much fun is that as we continue to move and look back.

Wayne Marshall: I mean they're, I mean it's like every month it's just up and up and up and up. The numbers just continue to improve. I know overall, operationally, just taking your average ro, it's up, your GP gross profit, it's up. Your parts margin, it's up. I mean, we can just keep going down the list. And what's so exciting is that as you see this, 'cause you guys are both in your twenties, you're young men and you've got so much in front of you.

Wayne Marshall: And I'm gonna ask this question, we'll talk a little bit about it, but you got so much in front of you of what you can do that it's thrilling, at least for myself. And I think although you too, I mean, we get to live vicariously through your success. So when you get excited, I get excited, right? That's what makes this so much fun and why I was looking forward to having this conversation with you.

Wayne Marshall: At the same time though, I think, you know, when I think of our audience and the people that do look in and listen and watch our webinars, there's always those nuggets because you know how hard it is to start a business. I don't care if you start in your twenties, thirties, forties, it's, it's hard.

Aldo: Mm-hmm.

Aldo: If

Wayne Marshall: there's one or two key pieces of advice that you would now give as you look back 18 months, what would it be?

Freddy: Man, that is a hard question, but there. There's something that I, I started actually telling people whenever, whenever anyone asks me, uh, any advice, I realized really quickly that you need a coach in any new area that you're gonna, um, adventure into the best way to get the results you want.

Freddy: And then some who would be to find someone to guide you through it. Someone who's already taken those steps and can skip so many failures or, or open your eyes to see that you would've never seen. Yeah. Think that. That's the number one thing for me is to find a coach. Anybody to help in there?

Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Well, a coach or you know, a mentor, you can call it because.

Wayne Marshall: I shared, I've shared many stories with both of you guys that, you know, early in my career I was very blessed to be able to meet some gentlemen and different people, uh, that took an interest in me to help me and mentor me, people I could reach out to and talk to. So when I was in my twenties and thirties and I was starting my careers, these people were invaluable.

Wayne Marshall: Now, sadly, because I was young and they were older, many have since passed away. So I always look at it as I've told you both. Now it's my turn. I'm now the older guy, so to speak, and I'm now the one who can help pay it forward for those who did it for me. So that's part of my thrill of working with both of you is seeing that I, you know, again, 'cause.

Wayne Marshall: I'm a little older than both of you, but it's something that I can now give back and I can see the difference. And you're right. Um, I know what it did for me. I know Aldo, you and I have talked, you had some great mentors and people early in your career who you've shared their names and the things they did for you to get you to where you are today.

Wayne Marshall: And there'll be a day, Freddy and Lucas, I challenge you. You're gonna have the opportunity to do it for somebody else. Absolutely. That'll be the challenge as you bring in that next young kid someday that wants to become tech or whatever in this industry, you're gonna be able to pay it forward to them also.

Wayne Marshall: But I'll let, sorry, I'll let Lupus talk a little bit now and I'd be curious what he would say on it.

Aldo: I we're gonna, we're gonna make it a little different. I'm gonna say if, if, if Lucas met Lucas from four years ago, what would Lucas say to to Lucas four years ago? Okay, so.

Lucas: Repair shop.

Aldo: Okay. Lucas said that if he were to meet Lucas four years ago, that uh, that he would say, you know, because you are a technician and you know how to work on vehicles, that doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to run a business. And, uh, do not, do not, uh, do not be, do not have any reservations about asking for help or some kind of coaching to help you learn about those things.

Aldo: There's nothing wrong with it.

Wayne Marshall: It's a, it's a humbling thing to be able to stop and realize I can't do and know everything. And it's not a sign of weakness if you gotta ask for help. To me, it's a sign of strength that you recognize. Where you can do something well and where you need to improve. And the better you do at recognizing those shortcomings.

Wayne Marshall: 'cause again, we don't know. We don't know at times. And until we get an opportunity to have some of those discussions and that interaction, that's how you grow and that's how you challenge yourself to step up. And it's no different what you guys both said about early on in the business. You know, if we're gonna have disagreements, we have this, we gotta be, we gotta make the commit to each other to have those hard conversations so we can build and grow and create something with that, I'd be curious, I'd like to hear a little bit more because you've shared, but let's expand.

Wayne Marshall: You've had good growth. You're doing real. You're obviously, 'cause you're still new and you're growing, but you're having the best year ever. You've had multiple record months because you just do better and better and better and better. Now we're starting to get ready to go into 26 and beyond. And I know you've shared a little bit in our conversations of what some of that looks like in top line revenue, which obviously trickles into other success of profitability.

Wayne Marshall: But let's look even before that. Where do you guys wanna really go bigger, more locations, acquiring, changing your services, expanding into other things. Talk a little bit about what that future now starts to look like.

Freddy: Yeah, so we definitely, we definitely dream a lot together and we have a lot of goals we wanna reach.

Freddy: Uh, we'd love to have more shops. We wanna be able to open a whole bunch. And even for this one here in particular, we are excited for the day that we don't have to be inside the building. We're excited to be able to, um, own a shop that can run itself, be able to employ the right people to give the, the.

Freddy: Right service to our customers and be able to trust that they'll be able to handle it and us be able to manage it from afar. That would be one of our ultimate goals. And then from there, being able to spend to more shops and, and, and just multiply that.

Aldo: Mm-hmm. So, Lucas is, is seconding on what Freddy said and that, that, uh, the idea, it sounds like the, the, a big goal is to have the shop running like a well willed machine, right? Where they don't have to be present and you get to work on the business rather than in the business and, uh, to look at other opportunities.

Wayne Marshall: It is gonna come. I, I have all the confidence. I think it's, it's just not a matter of if it's when, it's just a matter of some time, which is hard to sometimes be patient. As a young man, I've been, I had big goals and dreams. I was wanted a happen. Let's go, let's go. I wanted to get it done in the next month too.

Wayne Marshall: But some of these things do take time. Right. The biggest thing I guess I would say that I've recognized with is the foundation you're building. You know, if you're gonna take these next steps and move up to these other things, be it another location, the better the foundation of what you're building today and getting all the processes and the procedures and just what it takes to service the customer or the marketplace.

Wayne Marshall: It gets a lot easier to do number two, number three, number four. 'cause it's just more of the same. But if we build and we continue to build, I mean that's what I, we tell all of people who do scale. It's not, you know, it's not that hard. If we build the right foundation, then it's easy to start building on top of it and continue to, to grow it up there.

Wayne Marshall: Um. As you know, being a business owner is different, as you've already talked a little bit about, is much different than working in the business. Now you're having to work on the business. If you could give a piece of advice to a young entrepreneur or someone who's wanting to, maybe there's a tech listening today and they're thinking, I think I could do my own thing and do what you guys did.

Wayne Marshall: If you could give them some advice as a young person, as you guys are, what would that be?

Freddy: Oof. That's another, that's another really hard question. Um, ah, we actually had someone who, who did ask us a very similar question. Um, he needs, he needs to be prepared. Uh, there's, there's a lot coming. Um, and to be really honest, a lot of it is, is really financial.

Freddy: So I think there's a huge. Financial aspect that you have to be prepared for. And actually what I told him was that you, you're gonna wanna pay a coach so you or someone to mentor you, or a guide or anyone who's already been there. Um, because again, there's, there's so much that you don't know, that you don't know because there's just, just really is.

Freddy: And I think that that's a really important thing. I, I just echo what I said before that, that that's the number one thing.

Aldo: That's a great point. Lucas said that, uh, what he would advise a, a somebody is to be, uh, patient and to, uh, be ready to be prepared and not only prepared for what's to come as far as the work part of it, but uh, prepared for a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, trial and error. Meaning don't get discouraged. It happens to everybody.

Aldo: Everybody trips and falls. And to be okay with that and be patient, patient with what's happening and patient with yourself so that you don't get overwhelmed, it's good.

Wayne Marshall: No, it is good advice. 'cause it is. We are gonna make a mistake. We are gonna have some failure. Um, you know, it's, it's just an opportunity to learn, you know, it, the, the character building aspect of it is not so much always what happened.

Wayne Marshall: It's what we do next and what we choose to do next. And I know it's no different than the conversations we've had. The story you just shared, Freddy of, uh, we had a challenging customer and client. And didn't know if you're gonna be able to work together as you went forward. And you know, we discuss. But what was great is that you didn't deviate from your, your integrity, what you wanted to do, the ethics of how to run the business.

Wayne Marshall: And by standing on that and maintaining that foundational aspect, what happened? He left. But then it came back because you stood on the right grounds. And when you do things with the right intentions, you do it with that honor. As we've already talked, even though you'll have mistakes and things like this happen, what was that conversation like and what happened when he called you back up and he says, can we start at a fresh slate and let's just rebuild?

Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. Doing the right thing. It's, it's painful sometimes, but if you do it right and you do it with honor, and we had that whole conversation, how do you, you know, deal with a challenging customer? More times than not, you will end up on the right side of this. And that's the toughest lesson I had to learn as a young person.

Wayne Marshall: And I think it's really cool how much you've already learned at an age. I didn't know it yet. I learned some of what you're learning in my thirties. You guys are so far ahead of me, just think of where you're gonna be.

Freddy: But yeah, no, that, that was huge. We, that was really important and that it really was a, a testament that, um, if we do the right thing, we put the right foot forward.

Freddy: People will notice and people do really appreciate good work. If anyone, that's something else that that's, that's good advice. If you do good work, that people will notice and you'll get recognized for it. You just have to give it some time.

Aldo: It does.

Aldo: Same. See? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, they just, that, uh, that, um, through that Lucas is an agreement that through the, um, following, being, setting up guidelines and making sure that you don't deviate from your process and you have a good foundation of how you want the business to run that eventually, uh, the people that didn't fit in the picture in the beginning come back and now they wanna fit in the picture.

Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, they see it. So again, that's, I think that's really good advice that we've discussed. I know you've embraced it and it, I mean, I loved hearing the story when you shared to the guy left. He basically said he was never gonna come back. I said, you know what? That's a kind of business he had.

Wayne Marshall: You don't need it. But he did come back and he came back with a little bit more, uh. Respect or appreciation for what you stood for and what you're gonna do and deliver. So. I complimented you on it. First time I compliment you. Again, it's hard to do that when you're growing and you need, and you want every customer, you want all the business.

Wayne Marshall: But you've realized, just as you said early on, I think it's a really important statement to make for our audience to understand is, is that. You had a lot of cars at one time, but not all business is good business. Mm-hmm. And volume, why it looks good on paper at the end of the day doesn't necessarily make you money.

Wayne Marshall: No, it doesn't. So it's being smarter and being wiser of the type of business you get. And that's why I know one of the early things we talked about from an operational standpoint is have a good intake. You know, get the appointment, get the customer in everything that Aldo talks about from an advisor standpoint, you know, get a good intake, get the customer in, get the information, get an understanding now, gives you guys an opportunity to do a good inspection and, and come back with a nice deliverable.

Wayne Marshall: What their car needs and how to go about it, and how to build that relationship, which builds trust. You know, in this industry sometimes our, our industry isn't looked at very favorably that we can be, you know, a, a business that is not of the highest integrity. But that's what we wanna do. We wanna be, and it's something we talk about, you guys talk about already.

Wayne Marshall: We wanna be a company of character and we wanna be such that people trust and they see and they come to us because that's what's really gonna help grow and change that mindset of people as they do look at. What a repair shop does and how they treat people. You're not doing that. You're not doing it at all.

Wayne Marshall: So, um, we

Freddy: actually, we just had a conversation right, right before this call, and sorry to interrupt you. We just had a conversation with the client before this call. It's exactly what you said. Um, he mentioned it. What we delivered was far beyond what any other repair shop does. Uh, we. Sent videos, photos, inspection report of everything that we suggested that the, the customer get to keep his vehicle in tip top shape.

Freddy: Um, and it weren't twisting his arm or anything like that. It was a simple presentation so that he knew exactly what's going on in his vehicle and he appreciated that because he said that his family mechanic goes ahead and just repairs. What he thinks needs to be repaired, not what the client says. So what we really like to do is give the, the client the power, give them a chance to know what's going on.

Freddy: And really, it's a, it's a, it's a business to client relationship that we need to respect and, and really care for.

Wayne Marshall: So now, you know, and, and this, the time goes by quick as we're fast approaching, kind of getting a little closer to the end here. I'm curious. I know, uh. Personally, I know some things that you've shared, Freddy, I know you don't have any children at this point.

Wayne Marshall: Lucas does. Mm-hmm. Is there gonna be a second generation, other generation, and would that be a goal, an aspiration to uh, have your family engaged and more involved?

Aldo: Yeah. Lucas says that it, it's something that's crossed his mind. His son's only two years old, so there's a, there's a long ways between there and or here and then for now. Right. And that and that. Uh, but he definitely knows that there's gonna be a, a, uh, that the automotive industry is gonna live. As long as we know forever, right?

Aldo: Yes. And there'll always be some kind of employment or something there for,

Aldo: and Lucas says that his son also loves, uh, toy cars. So maybe it's, it's already, it's already, it is blood.

Aldo: That he

Lucas: loves to go

Aldo: play, uh, you know, cars out in the, out, out in the driveway and such.

Wayne Marshall: I know we, we laugh guys, but um, as you know, I've got, I only had daughters who are now married, but I got grandkids. I got a grandson. And at an earlier age, since I. On cars and have my own home shop and everything he loves.

Wayne Marshall: And, and this started at seven, eight years of age, I would let him take things apart that I knew I was never gonna put back together anyway, so I didn't care. But that's how you learn. And at a very young age. I mean, he was only eight years of age and I'm already putting him in my skid steer. I'm teaching him to do other things.

Wayne Marshall: Uh, he's now 12. He can drive a manual transmission, I mean, on their property. I'm not on the road do that, you know? But it is a cool, and it's a great industry and it can be very rewarding. So you never know. You might be two today.

Aldo: Yeah, but

Wayne Marshall: just wait. You'll be surprised when he is five and six and he goes, dad, I wanna tear that apart and see how it works.

Wayne Marshall: S I've let my grandson do it. It's coming. I've let my grandson do it already. That's how they learn. That's how I learn.

Aldo: If, if I may ask a question, we'll start with Lucas. Would that be okay? Yeah. Lucas.

Aldo: Perfect. So I asked Lucas what, uh, what his expectations were before they enrolled with the institute and what they were of the institute. And he said that realistically he never would've thought that he would, they would gain, they would cover so much ground so quickly, and that in the early part of the business, it seemed like a black hole.

Aldo: They could never get out of, and they were surviving month to month and month. So they've been, so, Lucas and I, I imagine Freddie too has been blown away by the amount of, uh, about, by the amount of change they've been able to make so quickly and in such a positive way. Hmm.

Wayne Marshall: Let, I'll give Freddie anything else you wanna add to that real quick or,

Freddy: yeah.

Freddy: So. Truthfully, the, the thing that I, I hoped for was profitability, and we got that, but there's way more, way more than that. What we got was so much growth, um, mental growth. We learned so much. And I told you Wayne, recently, I think on our last call that something that I've really gotten from you guys, and I've been talking with Lucas and our service advisor, Alicia, was that.

Freddy: The amount of discipline that I see, like radiating off of, of the both of you and how much it's affected the way that we wanna do things here. It's made us so much more productive, so much more motivated, and again, just disciplined and able to, to just get things done that need to get done.

Wayne Marshall: Thank you.

Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. It's very, and I, I know, uh, in our conversations that, and it's just how it happens. I mean, we've, we've talked about. So much and we get very. Uh, personal about your business, you know, your lives, all the things that are going on, because what you're doing and starting a business, it touches and affects everything.

Wayne Marshall: I mean, everything that you're doing and how you're doing it. Um, yes, it, it's very, and I said it earlier, it's very rewarding to be able to work with you guys to see the results and to see the growth of that you guys are both having on a personal and professional. Um. Yeah, I'm honored that, you know, even though we might talk a lot of business, both of you guys, we end up talking family.

Wayne Marshall: You've asked me other questions that go above and beyond, um, right. I guess that's what happens when you become an elder statesman, I guess is how you can look at it. So, uh, for that I say, Hey, I'm blessed to say thank you for those kind words, but it's exciting and I'm you bright, bright.

Wayne Marshall: Freddy as his or, uh, Lucas, excuse me, as his family grows, you know, you just have a newer baby that wasn't that many months ago. And now Freddy, you're gonna grow because you're soon gonna be getting married. And, uh, yes, and, and another exciting step in life. And it's great to be able to be part of that journey with you and all these different things that go on and, uh, yeah.

Wayne Marshall: We're just excited for and I'm, and it's been awesome to be able to do what we're doing even today. And because I know Lucas, your English is getting better and better and better, but it's been awesome to have, although we part of, and to be able to have these conversations in Spanish that we can truly all come together, work together, and make good things happen.

Wayne Marshall: So guys, I can't thank you enough for taking the almost one hour of your time outta your busy day because you're not a large shop and I know you guys are really hands on for your success and where you're going and, uh, yeah, this is exciting. So thank you very much and I thank the audience for being with us and, uh, attending and listening.

Wayne Marshall: Hopefully there are some nuggets here that can, uh, be helpful.

Freddy: Yeah, hope so. Thank you guys for everything. It's, it's been a pleasure to, to be on.

Wayne Marshall: Nope. Alright, friends, have a great time. Again. Good luck, good holidays, and we'll be talking a lot more soon. Thank you. Thank.

Show Summary:

Private equity and family offices are accelerating consolidation in automotive repair, and Cecil Bullard and Michael Smith explain what that means for shop owners. They break down valuation multiples by shop size, profit, and owner dependence, and why true scale commands higher returns. The conversation also covers shared corporate offices, cooperative style partnerships, and how structure and SOPs can reduce risk while improving consistency. They stress that pricing, labor rates, and leadership development are key to attracting talent and building an investable business. Operators who build teams and value propositions will thrive, while price focused shops will struggle or disappear in 2026.

Host(s):

Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute

Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer

Show Highlights:

[00:01:10] – Cecil opens the discussion on industry consolidation and growing interest from private equity and family offices.

[00:07:45] – Michael explains how shop size, owner involvement, and profit margins impact valuation multiples.

[00:15:30] – The realities of small-shop valuations and why tools and equipment add little resale value.

[00:23:40] – What it truly takes to reach higher multiples through scale, systems, and leadership teams.

[00:32:20] – Why private equity is struggling to find enough well-run, scalable automotive businesses.

[00:41:10] – The benefits and risks of shared corporate offices and co-op style shop groups.

[00:52:00] – A candid discussion on labor rates, pricing fear, and the industry’s undervaluation of its work.

[01:06:30] – Succession planning realities when selling to family members or key employees.

[01:20:15] – Looking ahead to 2026: why opportunity favors shops that build value, not just fix cars.

👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4Uq2lWjvxoc

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Cecil Bullard: Good morning in some parts of the country, I think. Um, my name is Cecil Bullard. I am the founder of the Institute, uh, and I have with me today, uh, Michael Smith, who is our chief strategist. And, uh, I would also say, um, presenter, extraordinaire. Um, Michael, welcome. Thank you, sir. Uh, this is an ask me anything.

Cecil Bullard: So if you are online with us and you want to ask questions, please uh, um, put 'em in the comments and we will, uh, bring them in and do our best to get, uh, the answers. Um, today, I think, uh, I'd like to start us out. However, uh, kind of talking about this, um, this idea of the, the. Venture capitalists coming in and kind of taking over, uh, the industry.

Cecil Bullard: Consolidation is, is what we, we have, um, you know, Michael, I think you and I have known each other now about three years, three and a half years, and I think you're coming up on two years with the institute.

Michael Smith: Two, two

Cecil Bullard: and a

Michael Smith: half

Cecil Bullard: already. Can you believe it?

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Oh, time flies when you're having fun, right?

Cecil Bullard: When you're having fun when you get younger every day. Um. Let's, let's go back to maybe two years ago and, and compare, uh, you know, venture capital is definitely coming in to the, to the industry. Uh, I probably have, uh, five or six, um, inquiries from mainly at this point, uh, what they call, what they call 'em, a family practice.

Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Family, uh, family office, uh, four, uh. Potential purchase of the institute because they want to be in the vertical. Um, and they often talk about the vertical. Um, and then I also get, I don't know, probably somewhere between eight and 12, uh uh. Things from venture capital, uh, venture capital companies that are inquiries.

Cecil Bullard: In fact, I think I have a conversation tomorrow with one of them. Uh, you know, hey, we're in Canada and we're trying to consolidate up here in Canada, and uh, you know, we've kind of looked you up and we think you know a lot of stuff, so we'd like to talk to you. Um, often that leads to a, um. A quote unquote job opportunity on either on the board or as some kind of a, um, uh.

Cecil Bullard: Consultant to them, uh, you know, for the marketplace. So go back two years ago and, and, uh, think about, you know, where the industry, we thought the industry was going, where the industry is going, and then now look at it today. And, and tell me your thoughts on

Cecil Bullard: Sure.

Cecil Bullard: You know, on, on that.

Michael Smith: Yeah. It's very interesting and in fact, if you'll indulge me, I wanna back up about a decade just for the start if we can, and go back to the very first private equity guys that showed up, um, at the table.

Michael Smith: And they were, they had a vision. Knowing in this industry, we were headed in the direction of what 50, 60 other industry verticals have gone down. The first one's on the ground, maybe the one we all know best, is Sun Automotive out of Phoenix. Put a stake in the ground, decade ish ago, something in that neighborhood.

Michael Smith: Mm-hmm.

Cecil Bullard: 10, 12 years. Yeah.

Michael Smith: Yeah, something like that. And they bought a, you know, reasonably smallish local shop that was underway and had some local presence and, and started, and the idea was to add to, to, those are, those are called the, uh, the, the baseline or the, uh, the, the platform companies that you start with.

Michael Smith: And then they make investments from there. And the idea is to just add scale. Scale, uh, takes your multiple up on an exponential basis when you go to sell the business. So there's a game afoot where the mom and pops and I hesitate to call us that 'cause I don't want to offend anybody with that. But from an investment perspective, we are a mom and pop industry, meaning we're mostly small, mostly privately held, mostly owner operated.

Michael Smith: And then the idea is to come sweeping in, buy up some kind of a regional. Starting presence of five to 10 to 15 shops and then sell it to a bigger fish who then rolls up four or five of those and goes on. So that started decade ish ago with Sun. We knew it was coming. It's not a big surprise. Part of the reason I'm in this industry at this point was a decade ago, I got introduced to a three shop company that wanted to do something different.

Michael Smith: And so I kind of watched it coming. And so what happened was there was this great expectation that our industry was gonna roll up quickly. And it hasn't gone as quickly as we thought. And Cecil, now I'm gonna kind of jump into the next five to two years to kind of where we are today. Yeah, brother, go ahead.

Michael Smith: Yeah,

Cecil Bullard: before you, before you go there, I want to clarify a couple of things. Okay? Sure. So you talked about the multiple. And so if I have one shop. Uh, net, uh, 10 or 12%. Um, and I am involved in the business day to day, uh, and, uh, business isn't really growing much, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Uh, what's my multiple? Okay.

Cecil Bullard: And I know that I know that answer, but. You know? Yeah.

Michael Smith: Yeah. It depends on where your shop is. First of all. If you're in a geographic region where there's immediate distance, uh, geographic growth available for expansion is different than if you're rural. But let's just say you're in sort of the middle of all that.

Michael Smith: Um, you would get, maybe if it's, you know, I'm gonna say this, and this is part of what's surprised private equity in any industry vertical, you would imagine that may be the middle of the bell curve. Would be a seven to 8% profit margin. Maybe this 80th percentile would be a 12 to 15% profit margin in the top shops or top companies in that industry.

Michael Smith: Depending on the industry, if you're in the retail, groceries, margins aren't that high, but an industry like ours, in the trades that are profitable, you could expect a 25, 30% profit margin, top 10%. Ours is a harder business than that. So I'm, I'm, I'm gonna get to the answer to your question, the middle of the bell curve.

Michael Smith: So when I, I guess what I'm saying is when you're saying a 10 to 12% profit margin, you're not talking about a 50th percent company? No, that's on the, that's on the higher end. It's on the way higher end of our bell curve. And so when, my, my point is when they look in, the average shop will get a two and a half to two and three quarter ebitda.

Michael Smith: Or, um, let's, let's use net and EBITDA interchangeably. They are different numbers. EBITDA is a financial net number, which is more pure, if you will, but we use net. So let's talk nets, right? The average company at the top of our bell curve, halfway through the 235,000 companies, is a two to 3% profit margin.

Michael Smith: It's got two to three employees, and the owner doesn't take home a paycheck every day. So when we're talking about.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah, so I'm making, I'm making, you know, net 40, net 50, maybe net 60,000. I've got a 60, 80,000 paycheck with the truck and insurance and gas and whatever else I, I managed to bill for from myself.

Cecil Bullard: Um, you know, and, uh, and I'm gonna get a two, two and a half x maybe.

Michael Smith: You're gonna get, you get a two and a half X. And, and if you, and here's, here's what's gonna hold you back. Here's what's gonna be in your favor, that your nets are higher than normal. Here's what's not gonna hold you in favor, is the fact that you're still deep up to your neck in the business.

Michael Smith: And we have

Cecil Bullard: talked, yeah. Yep. And so I don't, I, I don't want to dig way, way deep here. I just want to kinda set the, set the stage. All right. So, so I've got a business that's doing let's say 650,000, two techs. By the way, that should be a million dollar, million, two business, two techs. But, but I know shops and I know that many shops are stuck in the 6 57 range with two techs in their shop.

Cecil Bullard: And, uh, my net is, uh. You know, three, four, 5%. I'm, I'm, I'm going to be lucky at that point to get a two and a half X, so you'll be lucky

Michael Smith: to get two and a half. Yes, sir.

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So I have this shop that, and then I think that my parts and my, and my, my tools, these, these tools that I've spent so much money on over my lifetime, et cetera, I, I'm thinking, well, geez, I've got two, $300,000 worth of tools at least, and right on.

Cecil Bullard: Accept, accept they're worth. 10 cents on the dollar in a, in a buy. Right? That's not where I get my, my value. All right? So that's, that's a And by the way, that's what we would call a small business, right? Yeah. Um, the mom and pop, right? Yep. And then, and then we move up to, let's, let's say that, uh, let, I'm doing 1,000,005, all right?

Cecil Bullard: And I'm net 10%, plus I, I get a salary out of the business and I'm kind of not. Um. That involved. I mean, I'm not like writing service every single day. I'm still helping the master tech when he can't figure something out. I'm still writing some of the tickets. I'm still involved with the, maybe we're, we're homegrown our financials, uh, you know, et cetera, and so now I'm gonna sell that business.

Cecil Bullard: Right? Yep. I'm still probably at the most of three x,

Michael Smith: three to three and a quarter. Here's the extra quarter. If you really aren't in the business and you really are working on it, meaning you can disappear for a week and nothing really substantially changes, if you have growth from revenue and profit on top of the three, you might get to a three and a quarter.

Michael Smith: They, you know, growth is a good thing in the investment business. You wanna buy a growing business, not a shrinking one. Quality of leadership, stability of team. If you have high turnover, if you have toxic people in leadership, if you've got a problem that an investor's gonna buy, you know, they may walk in and say, tell you what look like, love the numbers.

Michael Smith: I'll give you three and a quarter for the business contingent upon the due diligence study. And that's, it's a lot like,

Cecil Bullard: and when you're saying three and a quarter, we're not talking about three, $3,250,000. We're talking about 3.5 x of my net or EBITDA your net. Right. Right. Yeah. So, so now let one more step, we're gonna have a question here in a minute, but I love it.

Cecil Bullard: I, I just kind of wanna follow this for a second. Mm-hmm. Now, um, I've got a business doing say, 4 million. And we're net 20, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm netting 20, I'm netting a million dollars or 800,000 out of this business. Uh, I'm not working in the business at all. Mm-hmm. Really? Uh, I'm managing my managers right.

Cecil Bullard: And, uh, and that's a, we're gonna call that one shop. It could be two two $2 million shops, but we'll call it one. And now I'm gonna sell that. Uh, uh, in the marketplace. What, what is the, you know, what's the X? We're we talking maybe four X?

Michael Smith: Maybe four. I'd say it'd be a real stretch to get to four, and again, this feels like real scale from our single shop perspective that we tend to run.

Michael Smith: Historically at the finance investment level, you're still very, very, very small. And those numbers are a lot better than what, see, so what we started with, they're a lot better, but they're not gonna scale you to higher multiples yet. So maybe three and a half, maybe three and three quarters. If you can demonstrate stability over time in these things.

Michael Smith: Getting the fours, I mean, maybe, maybe, right? If, if I

Cecil Bullard: wait for the, if everything's perfect to put the right plan together. If, if, if I wait long enough, et cetera, I may not have the, the runway to, to wait. Um, but absolutely that's still, by the way, that's still small business. It's still very small business period, right?

Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. So now, now, now I've got four locations and each location is doing say, $2 million. I'm doing eight, maybe 10 million. I'm still net 20. 22, 24. I'm not involved in that business. On a day-to-day basis. I have an area manager. I have managers in the stores, et cetera, et cetera, four. Four and a half x, five x that,

Michael Smith: no, I'd say four, four and a half would be the range you're looking at.

Michael Smith: And it feels like we're growing a lot and crawling slowly, and that is absolutely true.

Cecil Bullard: So one of the things, one of the things that I've, I've recognized is, is. We that I, I know some deals that have been done where there were 10 x, 12 x, uh, and some other opportunities in that, in the, in those deals, and I know you were involved in, in one of those.

Cecil Bullard: We're not gonna, like, we won't mention names and all of that stuff, but, but I don't see as many of those happening. As I thought I would see happening at this point in time,

Michael Smith: I think the private equity guys are not seeing, they are, uh, Cecil, there is a trillion and almost a half dollars of, of what they call a dry powder out there, a trillion and a half dollars in investors hands.

Michael Smith: And these are big investors all the way down to small that can't find projects. So, so let me just say, to start my comment, they're dying for us to have projects, but here's where we don't have them. We don't have scaled 10 plus location type companies, 20 locations, 40 locations, 60 locations that they can sink their teeth into and get into with a 10 to 12 to 13, maybe even a 15 times ebitda because we haven't built that kind of scale yet.

Michael Smith: And so the challenge, yeah, brother, go ahead. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cecil Bullard: So one of the things that you did in, in what you did was you brought five smaller players together and created a 40 location ish, right. Right offering, which moved the X up considerably.

Michael Smith: Yeah. They immediately gained scale from each other by coming together into a group.

Michael Smith: Now, there's a downside to that too, is that the PE guys, the private equity investors are buying five different transactions in its. Single transaction, if that makes sense. So the complication of implementation is multiplied by five within a single project so that the multiples aren't as high as if you had a single company that brought 40, 50 locations to the table.

Michael Smith: Right. And so there's pros and cons to all of this. Yes, sir.

Cecil Bullard: And so what I, what I really kind of want to talk about here, and I, I still don't see the question. Maybe it's 'cause my glasses aren't, are, aren't good enough. But, but, um. If I'm a small business and I'm doing not a great job, um, I might be worth two x.

Cecil Bullard: Okay? 2.2, 2.4, right? If I'm a medium sized automotive shop, uh, million five, 2 million, uh, I might be worth three and a half x. Uh, if I'm a, uh, multi-location doing 10 million, I might be worth. Four and a half X and uh, I'd have to be a 40 to 50 or a combination where I brought in 40 or 50 shops with the right revenue in order to get an eight x, a 10 x and maybe even a 12 x.

Cecil Bullard: Okay? Yep. And so what I have not seen is these companies that, that are out there buying shops, like talk about Sun. They went crazy twice. Alright? They dumped a bunch of money. Uh, and then a few years later, they dumped a bunch more money into the Phoenix area. Bought up a few hundred shops in that area, and now they seem to be, uh.

Cecil Bullard: Not stalled, but certainly their growth is not, I think what they thought their growth was gonna be. Right. And there are fewer and fewer shops for them to buy. So I'm looking, uh, yesterday I got an an ad for a a four bay shop. I happen to know where it is. I happen to know who used to own it. But that shop is for sale for nickels.

Cecil Bullard: I mean, nickels, I could go buy it tomorrow. And that's, that, that's 'cause I got a couple of nickels and that's it. You know, if it was dimes, I'd be in trouble. Um, but nobody's buying it. Okay. Because it doesn't have any real value because it doesn't have the organization, the structure, the systems, the process, the, the, the clients.

Cecil Bullard: Right. And what I'm think, I'm, what I'm, what I'm thinking is happening in our industry is a separation of these are the good shops. These are the shops that are not so good. And even in that, I think the smart investor, uh, whether it's private equity or family office or whatever, they're not buying the not so good shops.

Cecil Bullard: No. Because they don't see a path through those shops to where they need, where they want to go.

Michael Smith: They're not buying. They're, yeah. Let me, and let me just build on something where we're talking about here. Suns, every private equity project would like to start with what? With this platform company in a geographic region.

Michael Smith: So region, right? So you'd like to have, yeah, so, so Phoenix, uh, Atlanta, whatever, 10, 20, 30 shops in a big city, and you buy that thing right up front and now you have a presence in the city so that you pay a big price for the owner, founder. Operators tend not to go away in those, they become partners in the private equity project at that point.

Michael Smith: They become

Cecil Bullard: private equity investors in their own lives.

Michael Smith: They do in their own companies, and they don't go away because here's the theory, that 30 shop system becomes the system that you then buy 10 shop systems until the market's empty. Then you buy five shop systems till the market's empty. Then you buy two shop systems and each of those, Cecil, back to our point, are getting less sophisticated, more work and implementation, A lot more upgrade needed to become.

Michael Smith: To the level of the private equity project. And so the scale, the value of those companies, your regional investment there is going down over time as you add scale and you're dumping that work and, and it's not a bad, in a bad way, it's an intentional way on the shoulders of the platform, people who are on the ground there.

Michael Smith: And so they may keep all the separate brands for a while of all the acquisitions, but over time the original brand on the ground will be rebranded there in the region or the private equity. Overall brand will be rebranded across the board. That's what's, those are the iterations that Sun went through.

Michael Smith: They would buy a 2030 shop system if they could find it in a region, and then they end up at some point buying onesies and twosies that aren't at the same level of their investments. But that's all that's left in a market. That's Yeah, that's the natural close. That's the

Cecil Bullard: drags, right? The

Michael Smith: drags are there.

Michael Smith: Well, yeah, and we don't even wanna call 'em that because it's just, it's just. Yeah. No, no, I'm with you and I'm, I'm not being critical of the word. It's a, there are, there are great shops that are, single shops that are run on a one-off basis, that are running consistent growth over time. Have a very strong team.

Michael Smith: The owner is sitting and maintaining a, a good leadership team that runs it for them. But,

Cecil Bullard: but you're still not gonna get a eight x outta that you, no, you're not. And those

Michael Smith: are few and far between. Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. Right.

Michael Smith: So no matter where you're. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cecil Bullard: I, I, I got this weird, like, uh, there's a, there's a trillion and a half dollars worth of powder in the gun, you know, and, and there's all these shops that are closing and or disappearing or being sold for the, for the littlest of money to the service advisor or the ex-partner or whatever.

Cecil Bullard: And, and I thought. I thought, you know, two years ago I thought, oh my gosh, uh, private equity's gonna come in and just suck those up, right? Um, uh, so, uh, gimme the incoming question. Uh, uh. What are your thoughts on sharing a corporate office with other like-minded shop owners? That, by the way, that's from isa, uh, Tola.

Cecil Bullard: I hope I got that right, uh, from pronunciation. And that is like the perfect, uh, the perfect question because that's what we have, uh, are working on, and that's what you've already accomplished. So I'll let you, I'll let. Answer that better than I. Yeah, that's,

Michael Smith: that's a great question and let me, let me run with it.

Michael Smith: The idea here is that if, if you have a, like as I mentioned before, if you have a single organization with a leadership team that's been in place long enough to prove that it's a real leadership team, which has then comes with it, a centralized corporate office, you have the best chance of getting the best multiple in the market that you're in.

Michael Smith: A step along the way, ISA or, or Issa, I'm not sure how you pronounce it, is what you're talking about. If you had other shops and you started to build a sort of a co-op of some of the things that you could share together, you're on track to potentially having. Uh, if you will, a co-op of shops that could go to market together.

Michael Smith: The co-op of shops is what we took to market with the project that I did. The best Deal those guys could have made, and we talked about it, was to have them become a single company with a single leadership group and a single set of, you know, down to the grinding level of SOPs, right? Doing it all the same way with single systems and all.

Michael Smith: That. Here's the risk you take though, and, and this is what we're here for, right? To look at the pros and the cons of this. The pros are you do that, you get your best outcome. The cons are what if by the time you're done building a couple things, bad can happen, right? Some of the partners that get into this don't do their.

Michael Smith: Their piece. Anybody in school remember doing team projects? Yeah. And some of the people didn't do any work at all and some people did a whole, all the rest of the work to get the grade. This is what you run up against, right? So here's the risk is that you put all that cost into building a single entity, then it doesn't function because you don't have control anymore.

Michael Smith: Huge issue in our is in businesses, you are the owner operator, you make all the decisions. And one of my first conversations with folks doing all this rollup stuff is you realize that when you make this transaction, you ain't the boss anymore. And they're like, what? And it's like, no, you don't have 51% of your company anymore.

Michael Smith: Now you have a committee. Now you have a board. Now you may have a controlling group that isn't you. Who's gonna tell you ultimately what you're gonna do, whether you like it or not. If push comes to shove and people are like, well, wait, I'm, I can't work for anybody else. I'm the master of my destiny. The reason I have this shop is 'cause I don't want to be a, you know, an employee.

Michael Smith: It's like, well, that's. Big mindset to get your head around. So back to the question, shared services are fantastic and shared services are a good first step toward kicking the tires on your, on your potential future business partners. Another thing to do is to have a peer group locally of your potential business partners, where you guys spend time building relationships with each other.

Michael Smith: Have it be a local peer group of very select people where you guys help each other improve each other's businesses. The background gain in that is that you're standardizing the way you do things by best practice over time. That gets you closer to being able to roll it up into a, into a roll up local, uh, single operation that you could sell to.

Michael Smith: Private equity for the multiple right scale gets you higher multiples in private equity. I also

Cecil Bullard: think, I also think you're driving. Um, performance. Um, because when you're comparing yourself against, you know, other like shops and you're saying, uh, you know, well, wait a minute. You raised your labor rate $25 an hour.

Cecil Bullard: I can raise my labor rate, and by the way, I'm gonna go 30 because I'm gonna be higher than you, blah, blah, blah. We see this happen like, uh, where there's a kind of a competitive nature to the group, uh, and a competitive nature, which, which does at least subtly have a tendency to drive result, right? Yep. Uh, other, other than I'm kind of in this world by myself.

Cecil Bullard: Um, and I, I've got my own blinders on because I don't know what I don't know.

Michael Smith: Now there's a danger. I wanna speak to a danger zone right here, which is the danger of having price and, uh, market conversations with, uh, companies that could be considered fixing. If you're not careful, and this is not dodging the rules, it's being aware of them, right?

Michael Smith: If you're in a pure group scattered across the country and you're comparing labor rates, it's a lot safer. Within an industry then if you have a concentration of people in the same town having the same conversation, you, I'm not saying you're, you're playing any games here with the law. I'm saying we don't.

Michael Smith: Right. We need to be aware

Cecil Bullard: of So you as, as a consultant. Okay. I, I have labor rate has been one of my big, um, things because, you know, um, uh, I took labor aid from 1980. Uh, where I was in Palm Springs, California, and I multiplied that times 3%, uh, every year until, I don't know, this year. And, um, the labor rate I would have today is about, it's real close to two 70.

Cecil Bullard: It's like 2 68 in change an hour. Mm-hmm. And yet the industry average, I think the last survey that was done was 1 28. Right. Right. So we're. At least probably 30, 35, maybe even 50% below where we really ought to be as an industry. And it's almost like we're afraid to have a labor rate conversation because we're afraid that somebody's listening and they're gonna say, you know, I'm, I raise my labor rate.

Cecil Bullard: You should probably raise yours, the, the whole industry. Can't, we can't build, we can't bring good techs in. We can't afford to pay them the, what they need to be paid. I'm getting these things from shops and he's, Hey, do you, what do you think? I'm gonna hire A-A-A-A-C Tech. I'm gonna pay that guy $22 an hour.

Cecil Bullard: My range is between 22 and 24. Well, well wait a minute. McDonald's is paying 27. Yep. So, so how am I gonna get a tech, you know, other than somebody that's either not very bright mm-hmm. Or somebody that just loves cars. Right. And, and they want to do it no matter what it takes. How are we gonna fill the gap if we can't pay a living wage to the people coming into our industry?

Cecil Bullard: Right. And we can't pay a living wage 'cause we don't charge enough to pay a living wage. Well, the guy down the street, you know, he's, he's only at a hundred bucks an hour and we got, uh, I, I was, um, I have a couple of storage units move the house. We put some stuff in storage and I'm moving outta one of the storage units this weekend.

Cecil Bullard: And, you know, I'm there most of the day. Saturday, on and off, like four or five times we made trips close the storage unit out. There's a guy. Working out of a storage unit, two units down, and he works on three cars that day. He's doing automotive service and repair out of a storage unit. Right. Mm-hmm. And I know that has not, there's Cecil's A DHD kicking in right here I am.

Cecil Bullard: Woo. Way. We're here. But, but I don't care, um, what your labor rate is. I just know that your labor rates that, that our labor rates have to go up in this industry. Or we are gonna have a lot of shops that are just gonna be gone.

Michael Smith: Well, and let me, let me lean into the backside of what you're saying too. I'm gonna take it to a strategic level.

Michael Smith: I believe I'm, I've been in this industry a decade at this point, after 35 years before that. You can't be that old. You can't be that old. I know. I'm actually older than you are. I don't tell anybody. Right. So, no, but I, but, but here's my point. We, um, I think we have a, a, a self-image issue in our industry.

Michael Smith: And I'm gonna say it straight up to everybody listening here. I, I wish you knew how much I think of you having grown up in 50 other industry verticals in the big consulting firms. When I work with my clients, the single shop folks, the triple shop folks in this industry, I tell y'all all the time, you guys are some of the best business people I've ever met in my life.

Michael Smith: And, and I get these looks across the table like, you're, you're joshing me, right? This is a joke. Is this a dad joke? That there's a punchline coming? It's like, no. This is a fact. The, the business we all run here is one of the most complicated businesses in the world that I've had my fingers on. Again, 50 60 industry verticals consideration.

Michael Smith: And I'm gonna tell you that when this, this, when you do this business, well you, I, I tell people all the time, you give me 10 top shop owners, I'll put 'em up against a sweet C-suite in any Fortune 100 company on a, on a competition basis, and we're gonna win. And you guys look back at me like I'm from another planet.

Michael Smith: I am telling you the truth. And I say that from the standpoint when we look at the marketplace and downgrade our thinking that, well, they couldn't possibly pay that much in the market. I'm, I'm telling you straight up, if your value proposition not competing on price. We had a microeconomic conversation.

Michael Smith: I would tell you every time, do not compete locally in your market on the basis of low price. Don't do it. There's only one winner in that game. It's the cheapest price and everybody playing that game's on your way out of the industry. What I will say is develop your value proposition so that you understand that what your customers get from you and the utility that you bring back to their life and turning their.

Michael Smith: Including their ROI on the repairs that you do, the return on investment, that you have a story to tell. And when you believe in your story, and Cecil, I'm backing you up now with labor rates, you're gonna realize we're not charging enough for the value that we bring back to the economy guys. Do you realize it?

Michael Smith: Without us, the economy ain't gonna function. We are the transportation baseline that keeps people going to work. It keeps kids going to soccer games. It keeps professionals in their trucks going to service other companies, et cetera. Without us, this economy grinds to a halt. Why do you think in COVID We were, we were called, you know, we were part of those, uh, essential, the exception.

Michael Smith: Yeah. We were essential companies that were allowed to keep functioning because. We're critical. So we gotta remember that, that we hold that, that, that status and, and place in our economies. And I want all of us to think more highly of ourselves. I'm just telling you, I meet owners day after day over and over who really question their skill and question kind of what they're worth in the market.

Michael Smith: And I'm saying, guys, we need a brand new way of thinking about this. And I, and I wanna encourage you here, if you can hear me, please hear me clearly, you're, you're as good as people get in the business world, I'm telling you right now. Now.

Cecil Bullard: So I have been coaching in this, in, I've been in the industry my entire adult life, right?

Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Actually, you could say I've been in the industry my entire life, but, you know, actively, uh, doing some job within this industry my entire adult life. And I've been in coaching for coming up on 25 years. Okay. And, and, um, my experience, my, my depth of knowledge, um, the guys that we have that are building value.

Cecil Bullard: Talking about value creating, value proposition, um, are able to charge more in their businesses. Mm-hmm. They're, they're attracting a better client. Um, so you know, there's that, uh, when you're talking to shop owners, there's, they're like, yeah, uh, I'd really like to work on Porsches. And you're like, oh, that's wonderful.

Cecil Bullard: If it's the first or second owner, when you get to the third owner or the fourth owner, you have somebody that bought a Porsche that can't afford to necessarily fix it. Those are not the best customers, right? No. And so the guys that are, are building this, this great value proposition and able to, to. You know, help their customers understand that value proposition are the ones that are most, uh, successful, most long-term successful.

Cecil Bullard: And they're the ones that are probably gonna walk away. With a five x, a six x, or maybe even a 10 x if they are putting themselves together with, you know, enough shops or enough shop owners to, to make it worth the, the while of the venture capital company, if that's who they're gonna sell to. Yeah. New,

Michael Smith: new question, incoming Cecil, let me have this one.

Michael Smith: Yep.

Cecil Bullard: Bring her in. Bring her in.

Michael Smith: It's, um, one of the, one of the things that, um, I, I have a group that I help understand what it takes to reinvest in your company like an investor. And what it means is instead of thinking like an owner operator, we think like an investor and think, how do we build value in our company that will be recognized by the marketplace?

Michael Smith: Marketplace? We're talking right now on the short list of many, many things that we consider and develop over time are two critical things, right? One of them is. Are you working in the business or are you working on the business? And if you are in the business, you're reducing the value of what you have because the minute you sell it, they have to replace you and your profit margins that you demonstrate.

Michael Smith: But trying to build your value around aren't gonna hold up in their hands 'cause they have to replace you. The second thing is, how do you do that? You have to have a leadership team and a team under them. That is rockstar enough to do this the way you would do it without you having to be there. And so you have to invest in your people.

Michael Smith: You gotta get toxicity outta your company. You have to have a strong team. And when you have that, then it leans into a third category, which is you can draw the loyal brand, ambassador customers, the best customers out of the market and into your hands that you can then sell that with your company too.

Michael Smith: The next owner, right? The next investor. It's investment perspective. Those three things are not typical in our industry. We are so technician centric. We're running a company like a machine. We get the cars in the front desk, we get 'em out the end of the day. We've done our job for the day. That is not building an investment grade company that is building an operating company that has fixing cars.

Michael Smith: Fixing cars. Can you believe it? Fixing, fixing cars

Cecil Bullard: is not what this is about. It's not what we do. I mean, ultimately cars have to be fixed. They do. But that is not what this is really all about. Right? Not if you want. To have, um, an easier life. Not if you want to, uh, make more money, if not, if you wanna support the people that are in your company.

Cecil Bullard: And I think it's almost always about building a team. Michael, uh, aorn, please give us the next question. Um, Blake, I know Blake, have you seen situations where an owner Yeah. Not involved in the day-to-day ops sells to his general manager or management team. Yeah. Lots of times. Um, but here's, here's what I see.

Cecil Bullard: Um, mostly I see it's not done well, it's not planned well, and it's kind of more of a last minute thing than a, you know, a five-year plan to make the best out of this because, um. Uh, too many owners are, are taking, you know, 10% down, or not all, not anything down because the, the service advisor, manager, whatever, has not built the money to come in and buy it, and then they're, um, they're taking payments on a business that actually wasn't really set up well.

Cecil Bullard: To run and be successful in the long run anyway. And, and so yes, I, I've been involved with several of those, um, one in one in Denver where, um, you know, we built a plan, I think at the time we had four shops and, uh, we built a plan with the general manager that if we got to seven shops, that he would actually own a certain percentage so that he could go to the bank, get the money to buy, you know, the, the principal out.

Cecil Bullard: And it went fantastically well. But it was a seven year. Plan. It wasn't a, oh, it's time for me to get out. I'm old, I'm tired, and now I'm gonna sell the, sell my business. And I'm looking around and who can I sell it to? Well, I've got a GM or a management team. Uh, and so that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. Blake, I don't know Blake, I'm gonna,

Michael Smith: no, I'm gonna join Cecil on this and say that your question is based on what I, my experience here in the decade have been hanging around.

Michael Smith: That's the way it's usually done, is that an owner will sell to what we call a key employee, general manager management team. If it's an MBO management buyout kind of a thing. That's the way it's mostly been done historically. The thing is, the gap I think that I see looking back, that I even see today is this idea of succession planning ahead of time and what Cecil was leaning into.

Michael Smith: And, and I'll, and I'll put it this way, like there's a, you know, the world that we exist in today ain't as cheap as it used to be, so let's be real. Right. What it takes to buy a business today and get an SBA loan and to be able to prove that you're gonna be able to pay this thing off. It's nice to sell to a key employee, but do you want to own or finance this over time?

Michael Smith: So let me, let me unpack this for a minute for us, okay? If you're gonna sell this over time to a key employee, don't you wanna make sure that they're as competent as pro possible to take it from you do at least as well as you did, if not better, in their hands, so that you assure that what you want out of the companies.

Michael Smith: Actually gonna come to you. I can't imagine anything worse than you thinking. You're retired three years from now. Your key employee is overwhelmed and tanks the business, and now you get your business back. Because they didn't pay you for it, right? You get it back. It's broken and out of retirement. Now you have to come back and rebuild it before you can sell it to the next person.

Michael Smith: Let me add to that one more consideration. The world that we live in is getting more complex overnight because of the stuff we started talking about today. The consolidators are here when they build scale around you in your town, and you're the one shop left that only is a single shop. They're buying their parts cheaper than you are.

Michael Smith: They're buying their oil cheaper than you are. They're recruiting cheaper than you are. They're marketing cheaper than you are. So you can say, look, I'm an old guy, old gal. I don't wanna do this anymore. I'm gonna sell it to my key employee. Traditional flow, get out of the way. I'll take 10% down. If they can afford it, I'll pay.

Michael Smith: Let them pay it out over a decade or two. You know what? Their life in the next 10 years is the one you're avoiding. They're not gonna get away from this stuff. We're at the edge of everything changing, and it's happening, starting to happen in a deeper sense. Now, if they inherit that from you without the skills to succeed in it, and you've owner financed it, there are lot more people gonna be getting broken companies back in the future than there were historically.

Michael Smith: Not scaring anybody, just saying, guys, this ain't the same world. The next 20 years is not gonna look anything like the last 20. In terms of what, what the dynamics are. So these are just all things to keep in mind as we're thinking about this.

Cecil Bullard: I think it's, I think it's pretty, to me it's, it's exceptionally interesting.

Cecil Bullard: Um, I, I, I, because you know, venture capital's not going away. The, the family office not going away. They want a piece of this buy and, and, and they're already. Three or four pretty healthy ones in the industry, uh, active. Some of them have hundreds and hundreds of shops at this point in time, and they wanna increase that and, you know, get their multiples and, and all of that.

Cecil Bullard: And so that, that's not gonna go away. And I'm not saying that it's not necessarily a good idea to sell to an employee. Or even a family member. But holy smokes, if they're not trained up, I mean, it's bad enough. I had somebody ask me the other day, I said, Cecil, if there's only one thing that you could train, uh, in the automotive industry, they couldn't do anything else.

Cecil Bullard: Just one thing. What would you do? And I said, I train 'em on their financials, their numbers, right? Um, just what should the shop make? What, what's, what's my gross profit? How should I pay my, you know, technicians, uh, et cetera, et cetera. Um, because. You can't make money, uh, or, uh, you, you can survive. And there's a lot of shops surviving, but there's also a lot of shops failing.

Cecil Bullard: And there are some shops that are soaring like Eagles and, and frankly, those are the shops that have really got their, they built their team, they have their systems in process. They understand what they have to do as far as, I have to charge this so that I can pay that so that I can cover this. And I think that the.

Cecil Bullard: I think the world is changing even more dramatically here, and I think faster. I'm reading a book, um, unreasonable Hospitality. Uh, I think every business owner, I don't care what industry you're in, ought to read that book because I think that sets us apart from everyone else in the, in the thing and where we were having an argument yesterday.

Cecil Bullard: Um. Amongst several of us. You were, um, kind of online, but I think you didn't get involved in much of that, but too bad. I like, are we, are we talking about, you know, price, uh, as one of the factors of, uh, I'm picking the shop. You know, based on price, are we talking about that value proposition, that hospitality, the way I feel, uh, when I'm involved with that particular business or shop?

Cecil Bullard: That's the thing that keeps people coming back to your business over and over consistently. Man, if we don't figure this out as an industry, I would say I think we're gonna lose 30 to 40% of the shops. Mm-hmm. In this industry in the next 10 years. I don't know, man. If somebody wants to bet me money, I prob, I would.

Cecil Bullard: I seriously consider putting money on that. Mm-hmm. From everything I've seen. All right. Next question, Michael.

Michael Smith: Yeah. Real quick, let me add a stat to this and keep the question up and let me add a stat to this if you guys can stay at tune. Just one second. Let's talk about our cousins in the collision business, right?

Michael Smith: 30 to 40% estimate of market share is in the hands of five giant companies in collision. 70% estimated net profit in the industry is in the hands of five companies. Imagine that the margin that they've taken from the small players, like we're talking about here in our industry, is in their hands. Now you're up against them.

Michael Smith: In terms of your ability to compete. So just this is real time. This is not the furniture business. This is car related. Right. This is the collision cousin that we have, and that's where they stand as an industry. So we ain't avoiding this. We're going there whether we like it or not. Just to finish, to, to put a bullet behind your point.

Michael Smith: Right. So,

Cecil Bullard: okay. Okay. So, so we got, we, this is not necessarily different if you ask me, but, uh, Corey Knight. Hey Corey. How you doing? Yep. Um, uh, once you combine with a central corporate. Office, I think that's supposed to be corporate. Um, are you then opening up to a liability for, for some other shop's malpractice.

Cecil Bullard: First of all, holy crap, we don't understand in this industry what our liability is. I don't know. I mean, of all the shop owners I know, and I know thousands and thousands of shop owners, right? I could name on two hands. The number of shop owners that understand their liability, the liability that we have is unbelievable.

Cecil Bullard: If you ask me, I don't know, frankly, and maybe Michael, you can help me out here. Um, I don't know that okay. Having a central corporate office changes anything or creates any additional liability. Uh, than what I, I might have and if I'm having cars come from other shops that are not done correctly, uh, or, or were not fixed right, or weren't diagnosed properly or whatever, I think if I document well where, where we started and where we're going, that I think my liability gets less and less and less.

Cecil Bullard: Right. And I don't know, Michael, what, what would you say about having a corporate office and creating liability? This is fantastic. This

Michael Smith: is a fantastic question and I'll, I'll say this about liability. Um, investors will look at risk management and this is the, that risk management simply in their terms, means managing.

Michael Smith: Future liabilities, right? The risk that's inherent in our businesses. We can be smart and manage the risk ourselves as much as we can. In other words, you control your quality inside your own company. If you put a corporate office down who provides services to you in the background, you can be insulated in your company by buying services on contract from a central corporate office that you build as a separate company under a, you know, it's different from you.

Michael Smith: Right. So Bob, who's your peer in buying services from the corporate service company does something stupid that doesn't roll through the service company to you, that's still gonna be Bob's problem. And it may be the service company's problem because they help them make a mistake, but that shouldn't necessarily roll over to you.

Michael Smith: A lot of this comes down to the legal structure that you build this under and who are your partners? And I'm gonna take it back just to the quality program. The reason. That things like SOPs exist in corporate groups is to standardize process so that you can avoid making dumb mistakes on an individual location basis and standardize.

Michael Smith: You know, I, I'll, I'll say this, right? When Mercedes makes a car, they drive it to the end of the, of the production line, and then they test it. And if something's broken on the car, that doesn't work right in, in the factory, they fix it and then they send it to the market. Toyota does the same thing, but when they find something that doesn't work right, they fix it and send it to the market, but they also go back down the production line, figure out where it got broken in the first place, fix how it got broken on the production line so it never gets broken again.

Michael Smith: Those are two different mentalities about how you run a quality program.

Cecil Bullard: Cecil, one of the, oh man. I, I just, we, we as an industry. Um, we as an industry don't ever fix the problem that created the problem. We don't have time. We're too busy trying to fix the car and get the car out to solve the, the, the problem.

Cecil Bullard: So to me, um, you know, that's, that's huge. And, and corporate structure is really, really important when you get past. Um. I think from the beginning you certainly don't wanna, don't wanna be a sole proprietor. Yep. And you don't want to have your property in the same business as you have your shop. And you know, you wanna probably have a corporate, uh, office that, that has a separate corporation 'cause you're creating layers of um, uh.

Cecil Bullard: You're not invincible, but it, every time there's a layer, it's more difficult for someone to come after you, uh, the, the CEO of the company, the board, you know, the, the, the shareholder, et cetera. And so I think structure matters a, a ton in, in fact, we've just spent, I don't know, six months and a lot of money with lawyers, uh, creating new structures so that we can kind of get to the next level with the institute.

Cecil Bullard: And, uh, I, I've, I have found it. Fascinating, um, uh, you know, the nuances and the tax advantages and, and all the other stuff that, that go along with that. I think it's pretty, it's, it's exciting to me. All right. Um, LA last question, I guess we must be getting towards the end. I'd like to wrap it up a little too.

Cecil Bullard: So, uh, Carrie, uh, Rivas, Carrie, um, uh, we hope to sell our shop to one of our three children who currently works in the business. If selling to him today, how would you determine the value of the business not including the building? Would that be three times net? Uh, no. Um, it, it, it wouldn't necessarily be, it's a wonderful question.

Cecil Bullard: Um, first of all, I wouldn't sell to him today unless I had had a plan. Three to five years ago that explained how that all works. Right. And so, um, here, here at the institute, uh, Kent, my son, who is a viable and, and valuable part of the company, uh, uh, we started planning, I don't know, we're probably four years into this maybe.

Cecil Bullard: Five and he now has some interest in the company. Uh, I think it'll be 20% at the end of this year. 'cause we're gonna hit our, uh, you know, one of those milestones that we put in play. Um, and so essentially we have set him up to be able to buy the business no matter what the X is. Right. And, and obviously in what we do, the X's are different than say an automotive shop.

Cecil Bullard: Um, and so there, there are so many factors that would say three x or four x or five x, uh, or, or one X, uh, uh, and those are the things that are gonna really play, I think, to the sale of the shop. And you might say to yourself, well, you know, this is my, this is my kid. I'm gonna give him or her, um, a discount.

Cecil Bullard: Fine. Great. Uh, but man, you, you, um. There's so much kind of involved with this. They work in the business. What do they do? Do they understand the business? Um, you know that coaching and training thing too, if you want them to be successful. Uh, stuff we talked about, uh, today, that, that idea of, um. Um, creating a team, uh, having the systems and processes, you know, moving your business forward.

Cecil Bullard: So your net is not 3%, your net is 12, uh, 15, 18, 22. Um, all of those things, uh, play in the, the real value of your shop, and I believe also whether or not it's going to be successful term, whether you're there or your son or your daughter's there. Or one of your top people's there, or you end up selling it to, you know, um, you know, Billy Bob consult, uh, uh, uh, management, uh, uh, whatever company.

Cecil Bullard: Um, can I,

Michael Smith: so I wanna add to this too.

Cecil Bullard: When you get done, I wanna add to this. I know where No, I'll be done. You, yeah. You add,

Michael Smith: yeah. Now let me, let me just say, this is a conversation I have a lot with owners beginning the conversation of, so, you know, how are we gonna get out of this in the optimized way? And regardless of who you sell it to, it's similar questions.

Michael Smith: You assuming you can sell your business for a profit. Capital gains profit in your life, how do you account? How do you set that up so that you pay the right amount of taxes, but that you minimize your tax liability? How do you set it up in a family situation, particularly with three kids like you mentioned, and it's a great question.

Michael Smith: What about the other two kids? Do they get a stake in the business, don't they? What's the stake? How do you transfer it? What's the tax implication to them versus you? One of the conversations I always have is start at the end, like, how much time do you have and how much do you need out of the business to retire?

Michael Smith: Parents. Then what are you selling to the kids in terms of the business and who's gonna take what stake and what, what's their outcome? I'll say this about trust as an example. Trusts are a great tool to use. You may or may not have one questioner, but for all of you out there, trusts aren't considered valid by the US government until they're over 12 months old.

Michael Smith: So you can't set up a trust and three months later sell your company to somebody and have it be covered and handled under the trust. It's so you've got some long-term planning to do is my point. So this, and we do this helping people with these kinds of conversations all the time. Don't do it by random, don't do it by chance, if you will.

Michael Smith: Put it, put some strategy thinking into it and have, again, Cecil mentioned it, have your kids be ready to take the business from you. One in terms of passion, but two, in terms of competency. Emotional setup, right? Maturity. Make sure that you hand it to 'em so they can succeed so that you're not handing them a problem.

Michael Smith: And again, th this is different for every company, but all, all I'm saying is I, some of us get tired, we get to the end of the road. I just wanna be out of this. I wanna sell it to family and be done with it. Please, please don't do it. Uh, uh, without really digging into some of the, the side details, it could be very impactful.

Michael Smith: What on anybody involved? Brother? Go ahead. Yeah.

Cecil Bullard: What you don't know can cost you and your kids. Millions, tens of thousands, hundreds, even millions of dollars.

Michael Smith: I'm,

Cecil Bullard: I need to make a, a, a a short comment here. We had a client that, um, uh, uh, owns two shops at the time and, uh, three kids who didn't want anything to do with the business.

Cecil Bullard: Okay. Watch dad work his butt off for years and for whatever reason, you know, either dad didn't manage him well or, or dad wasn't nice at work or, or you know, they thought dad worked too hard, whatever it was, they won't have anything to do with the business. We brought them to a leadership intensive.

Cecil Bullard: These kids are on fire. They want nothing more than to take this business over and grow this business because they've seen what the opportunity is and how to do it. And we've also worked with dad and mom on how do we help the kids do this and how do we need to deal with it? I'm not. Always the nicest guy to my kids.

Cecil Bullard: Um, they're the ones that I can be the hardest on and I'm probably gonna be the hardest on. And, you know, sometimes I need somebody to say, Hey Cecil, um, you know, maybe if you approached it this way and did it this way, it would be much better for your relationship with your kids and you'd come out much in a much better way.

Cecil Bullard: And I just think that's extremely value. I wanna spend just five minutes here. I know we're getting to the end. 2026. Uh, Michael, what, what do you think for shops? What do you think it looks like?

Michael Smith: Uh, 2026 for shops. You know, we have, we have, uh, geopolitical instability that we're settling through on the planet at this point.

Michael Smith: I'm not being political, I'm just saying in the bigger macro, it is what it is. It is what it is, and there are some people who are sort of holding back a little bit, making big, long-term decisions, waiting to see what the long-term looks like. And so let's just put that on the table. Number one. Number two.

Michael Smith: Um, economically we're stable at this point. Stock market's doing great. Investment funds are backed up and ready to invest. You know, I asked the private equity firms, how do you guys plan forward into uncertainty? And they said, well, it's not as complicated as you think. We don't do a bunch of modeling. We decide, we look back and we say, over the last hundred years, what are the trends that have been successful so far?

Michael Smith: And we're gonna tend to stay with them and some until something catastrophic or radical happens, and we have to change that strategy. So all the little side questions of, well, what if this happens? And what if that happens at the investment level? They're like, we're gonna assume it's largely gonna be the same and we're gonna go ahead and keep investing up to our eyeballs.

Michael Smith: For a hundred years, it's worked with all the world wars and all the changes that model works all the way through, right? So from that perspective, what does 26 look like? Money's waiting to be invested. We're aging out as the boomers. The boomers are at least two thirds of the owners in our industries, if not more.

Michael Smith: Many of the kids aren't fully prepared for succession yet. Your key leaders aren't as ready as succession ready as you might hope that they would be. So if you're getting out. Make sure you know the pathway out. There are private equity opportunities to sell into investment systems, to have a little more as an owner in your pocket when you're done, how do you handle the shop and the real estate in your two different hands?

Michael Smith: There are strategies for this. So Cecil 2026 is, you know, big, hairy, audacious goals. Think bigger than we tend to think. Get your teams and leaders ready to go big with you and look forward and, and, and plan for the options. Plan for the opportunities, and be more creative than we've been historically about what you could pull off.

Michael Smith: And I'm gonna say to you, there are support structures, and I'll brag on ours. We're doing stuff that I don't know anybody else that we compete with is doing, but we've been there, done that, and it's. Sales pitch. I'm just telling you, we can help you do stuff that isn't typical in this industry that can take you to different places.

Michael Smith: 'cause we know that's where the industry's going. And so what's 26? I'd kick some tires. I'd lift up rocks and look under 'em that I hadn't looked before. And if you're tired. Keep doing it and don't stop yet. Lift up those rocks and see what's under there and, and I'll finish with the kid story, right? We've got multiple clients where the kids, where, as Cecil said, leaning out the front door and all of a sudden they come and they learn this and they're all back in the front.

Michael Smith: They're not even leaning in, they're in and they're like, I'm gonna build a generational wealth business with my family that has a significant community. Employee customer impact. And we are gonna play this rollup game that's coming because it's number one much more interesting than fixing cars for us.

Michael Smith: The kids. The kids, right? And number two, that's where the industry's going anyway. So why shouldn't we as insiders with advantage be in that instead of seeding that opportunity to somebody else? And so I say that to all of us guys. It's a new world that's here. Whether we like it or not, it's here. So explore the options and see what.

Michael Smith: They look like for you. And then make an advised decision. Make a wise decision about where you want to go from 26 and beyond. Don't just be tired and walk out the front door and please don't ignore this stuff because you, what you don't know may end up costing you. I mean, more than an arm and a leg. You have no idea.

Michael Smith: What's on the table and

Cecil Bullard: I see 2026 as a, as a huge opportunity for those people that are thinking differently, that are learning things they don't know that are building great teams and creating value proposition and a business that. Uh, revolves around those things. And then I see 2026 is very difficult for those people that are, you know, driving price and, and driving their business based on price and fixing cars.

Cecil Bullard: Okay? Mm-hmm. As the, as the primary. I, I just gotta fix this car so I can get the money in the door, and, and I really still will say. That we're gonna lose a ton of shops. We've seen it this year. We've seen quite a few shops disappear. We're gonna see more and more disappear. They're just gonna close their doors because they didn't build value.

Cecil Bullard: They didn't get the, you know, create what they needed to do when they had the time, the energy and the life force in them to do it. So, alright, uh, we want to thank you for joining us. If you didn't get your question answered, you want to ask another question or whatever, please hit up info at we are the institute.com.

Cecil Bullard: There will also be a QR code as soon as they take, uh, our mugs off the screen. Uh, and, uh, if you'd like a, uh, uh, no. Risk, uh, business evaluation, no cost. Uh, we'd be more than happy to spend some time with you and, and answer your questions and, and go over those things. And so that QR code is gonna pop up here in just a second.

Cecil Bullard: Thank you. Uh, Michael Smith, one of my favorite people in the world. Uh, thank the rest of you for joining us today, and we look forward to seeing you again in a few weeks when we kind of do this thing one more time.

Michael Smith: Thanks everybody. Good to see you.

Lance Lupi shares his unexpected journey from live sound engineering and financial services to running his family’s Lee Myles franchise in New Jersey. He explains how stepping into the shop during the height of COVID opened his eyes to the opportunity within the industry. Lance talks about the advantages of small-business ownership, the steep learning curve, and the value he places on his technicians. He discusses why he finally committed to coaching after five years and how it reshaped his vision for growth. The conversation explores leadership, culture, and the decisions needed to scale a shop built on integrity. Lance closes with his hopes for the industry and the future he wants to create for his team and his family.

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

Guest(s):

Lance Lupi, Owner of Lee Myles Autocare + Transmissions

Show Highlights:

[00:03:24] – Lance recalls his winding path into automotive and why he never expected to own a shop.

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Episode Transcript Disclaimer

Episode Transcript:

Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friends. Good to be with you again. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge Podcast. My guest today is Lance Lupe. He's with Lee Miles, the franchise of automotive service and repairs. He is out of Haslet, New Jersey. Lance, welcome to the show.

Jimmy Lea: How you doing brother?

Lance Lupi: I'm doing great, Jimmy, how are you? Re great to see you, although a little disappointed in the attire. No, no flashy

Jimmy Lea: Jacket today. Alright, hold on. I'll get my jacket.

Jimmy Lea: You know, everybody's listening to this. They can't see anything. You gotta call me out like that.

Jimmy Lea: Hey Lance, we've seen each other at many different trade shows over the years. I'm thinking of tools. Super Saturday Asta. Yep. Yep. And I'm twice Asta. Twice asta, and I'm told we're not supposed to pronounce it Asta, because you're not supposed to pronounce acronyms. It's supposed to be a STA.

Jimmy Lea: Okay. You're welcome, Lorraine. Calling out Lorraine on that one. Yeah, we've seen you twice at Asta. I, and I think that they have done a phenomenal job with that conference, the new location. Oh man. Did you go this last year better,

Lance Lupi: better this year than la Great. Last year better and I wasn't there for the entire time last year.

Lance Lupi: I was there for the full event, but definitely a b Huge improvement. Yeah. Location and everything about it. The scope of it was tremendous.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. So you gotta go again. You gotta go. This next move, what is it? September? I think it's September. Mm-hmm. October.

Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Lea: Put it on your calendar. Save up your pennies and nickels and dimes.

Jimmy Lea: Whatever you gotta do to make sure you're there for that one. Have you been to Tools? You go into the tools one in Pennsylvania.

Lance Lupi: I went last year and then go into the one plan on going to the one next year. I've heard they've changing locations po possibly don't know if that's true or not. Yes, we're,

Jimmy Lea: it's gonna be at the Hershey.

Jimmy Lea: Hershey in Hershey, Pennsylvania, the Hershey Chocolate Factory, and it's inside of there. So you want to get on it quick? They've got rooms available. I believe the classes are gonna start to be available to register here pretty dang soon. It's in April.

Lance Lupi: Okay.

Jimmy Lea: Right after on the calendar.

Lance Lupi: Yes. Get it on the calendar.

Jimmy Lea: It's right after my wife's birthday, so we got that going for us.

Lance Lupi: Absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Super excited. Hopefully she'll be there. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah, that would, it's gonna be right. So we're going on a cruise for her birthday and then this is gonna be right after her birthday, so we'd go straight from wherever we're cruising from directly to her.

Jimmy Lea: She Pennsylvania. Dude, that would be awesome. I'd love to introduce you to Rhonda. She's awesome and amazing. I met her last year at A STA. Well, well, there you go. There you go. That's right. She was there last year, not this past one, but a year ago, correct?

Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That was awesome. Or

Lance Lupi: at least I didn't see her this year.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, you weren't there to see her this year. I went there

Lance Lupi: year last year.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, dude. No, that's awesome. So we've had a lot of conversations over the years of shops and process procedures and, advisors and needing technicians and franchisees and franchise fees and franchise support and everything you're doing.

Jimmy Lea: So, what I'd love to do here first, Lance, is to get into the history of how did you get into the automotive industry. Wow. So

Lance Lupi: great question. Long journey to get here. Long, long journey. I don't know how far you want me to go back.

Jimmy Lea: I've had some dudes start when they were two years old and they're holding the wrench for dad 'cause dad was working on the cars.

Jimmy Lea: So it, so, so not that

Lance Lupi: path. That was not the path at all. Oh. You know, I did do work on my own cars when I was younger. Started to drive oil changes, you know, break jobs, simple stuff like that. But nothing really beyond that. Learned a couple things from dad. Tremendous influence on my life all over the place, but.

Jimmy Lea: Was dad in the industry? Was he a technician? No. Was he a shop

Lance Lupi: owner? No.

Jimmy Lea: No. Just

Lance Lupi: he was a mechanical engineer.

Jimmy Lea: Mechanical,

Lance Lupi: In the driveway out of pure necessity. Correct, but a mechanical engineer by trade.

Jimmy Lea: Oh wow, okay. Very good.

Lance Lupi: Yeah, so nothing to do with that, but you know, he was a young man as well at one point he worked on his cars and, you know, a different time when he did more work on cars than you do now.

Lance Lupi: But in any event so, so that was really the extent of my automotive history and knowledge. Got into actually doing live sound. For five years for bands. I worked in clubs and, you know, did some small little tours with some people and things like that. And that went on for about five years. And during that time, I, you know, I still was in school, going to college, wasn't really sure the path yet.

Lance Lupi: Got out of that after about five years and ended up going into financial services. So, whoa. 20 years that you went from being a roadie to being a financial advisor? Not a roadie. I was not a roadie. Hold on, let's back up, Jimmy. I know that was

Jimmy Lea: my word.

Lance Lupi: I, I ran the front of house, the audio systems for the bands.

Lance Lupi: I was a house engineer at a club in as famous Asbury Park, if you've heard of Asbury Park, New Jersey. And that's where I spent the bulk of my time.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. Doing

Lance Lupi: that.

Jimmy Lea: So you had a club, you weren't traveling on the road with the band.

Lance Lupi: Not, I think some little bands come to your, some little stuff with some different people.

Lance Lupi: Actually provided a PA system for Chubby Checker for a few gigs you know, in, in the northeast area for a couple days. And and then did some bands that I was friends with, things like that. We would travel a little bit, but primarily I was in one location. Okay. For the majority of that time.

Jimmy Lea: Alright, so were you the AV guy that would balance the sound or would you just blast the sound?

Lance Lupi: No, I wouldn't just blast the sound. That's not the objective. The objective is to make sure that everyone can hear everything the way that they want it to be heard the way that it sounded on the record or whatever it is.

Lance Lupi: So yeah, setting up the mics and, you know, doing sound checks and all those things and making sure the people can hear themselves on stage, making sure the fans could hear the. Stand out in the front of house and yeah, that was, oh, I love it. Five years of my life.

Jimmy Lea: Alright, from from, and that

Lance Lupi: shut down and then I decided that, you know, this is probably not what I want to do for the remainder of my life.

Lance Lupi: You know, it was fun, but giving up my weekends and all those things was not the greatest thing for me personally. For a lot of people it works. So, finished up school, got a degree in finance, and went into financial services for 20 years. Then I needed a change. Yeah. About five and a half years ago.

Jimmy Lea: My

Lance Lupi: in-laws

Jimmy Lea: go ahead. Five and a half years ago. I think we must have met shortly after you started your shop then,

Lance Lupi: so, so the shop, been in the family.

Jimmy Lea: Been in the family for 20 years. 20 years, yes. Okay, so it was your in-laws that

Lance Lupi: had

Jimmy Lea: it first.

Lance Lupi: Correct. They owned it. They bought it. My father-in-law loved cars.

Lance Lupi: He needed something to do. He felt that this was a great opportunity to combine work with his passion of cars.

Jimmy Lea: Okay? He didn't work on

Lance Lupi: cars. He just loved cars. Not that he didn't work on cars, but he wasn't a mechanic or anything like that. But he, he loved automobiles. Had a bunch of hot rods and all kinds of different classic cars and things like that.

Lance Lupi: So he felt that this would be a good way to, to combine both his passions of, you know, providing an income and working on cars.

Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. What do you know what steered him toward Lee Miles as the the franchise to follow?

Lance Lupi: It wasn't necessarily that it was just, this was something that was available.

Lance Lupi: It was proximity to the house. Was really. Great. You know, 10 minutes. Okay. Be being 10 minutes away. Great location. We're right on a main highway, you know, main artery in the area. So tons and tons of traffic that passes by the building every day. Love it. So, you know, just it was a fit for what he was looking for and what he was looking to do.

Jimmy Lea: It's like every bit of successful real estate location. Mm-hmm. Location,

Lance Lupi: Location. Absolutely. First of three else. Yeah. Yeah. So, about five and a half years ago, I needed some sort of change and he was kind of looking at the exit door a little bit and I said, well, why don't we why don't we see what we can do with this?

Lance Lupi: That was, you know, right at the heart of COVID. The heart of co. Right? The beginning. This was 2020. This was like, you know, right in the thick, right when we first really started to get into, you know, this was like June, July of that year. 2020.

Jimmy Lea: So this is past the two weeks?

Jimmy Lea: Two weeks. Two weeks. This is not just two months. Two months. Two months. This is the serious lockdown. Okay,

Lance Lupi: very good. Sorry. Yeah. The be the very beginning. Yep. Yeah. So pop and I said, well, let's see what happens. Okay. So, came in and started learning. 'cause I knew nothing, you know, I mean, I had been here before, obviously it's my father-in-law, it's right around the corner from me.

Lance Lupi: I've, you know, we, he his team worked on our personal vehicles, my wife and I, and so not as if I didn't have any exposure, but didn't really know how it worked.

Jimmy Lea: Right. Yes. Because it's different than financial services. Sure. I mean, it is business. So you have business acumen, but it's mm-hmm.

Jimmy Lea: It's its own unique leopard with its own unique spots.

Lance Lupi: Yes. But I did work in the operational side of financial services. I was responsible for budgeting for different departments, so. Able to leverage some of those types of things, SOPs. Right. You know, while I don't still don't really have them, I know about them.

Lance Lupi: I'm familiar with them. I've written them, I've supervised people, writing them and rewriting them. So, you know, there was a lot of things that either are or can be leveraged in this space that I take away from my old roles.

Jimmy Lea: Oh that's very cool. So you're starting to work on SOPs.

Lance Lupi: Starting is a long journey ahead.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it's a five year journey so far, and it, you know, it's been well, so a lot of, go ahead. The great thing about SOPs is it's a document that never dies. It's a living document, you living breeding document to add and add and work with. It seems to be a subject, a topic that comes up in a lot of the podcasts that I've been doing here recently.

Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And I think one of the most successful. Conversations I had, a gentleman was talking to his technicians and saying, Hey, look you guys are my beta. I am using you to see if what we're making, what we're creating is going to work. Is this gonna work? Is it gonna be good? Does it read right?

Jimmy Lea: Did I write it right? What did I leave out? What do we need to add? How can we improve these SOPs? And the brilliance of that process is getting their buy-in.

Jimmy Lea: I just thought it was brilliant. I totally geeked

Lance Lupi: out. Yeah. And that's an area where I, you know, I struggle with a little bit in the sense that the team that's here tremendously talent, tremendously fortunate to have the people working here that are working here.

Lance Lupi: They're not used to those types of things. And that change is a little hard and I try every day to challenge them and let them know that we need to be much more consistent than we already are.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. And that's how

Lance Lupi: we got, that's how we have to get there.

Jimmy Lea: That conversation was very recent with his name is Chris.

Jimmy Lea: Pete Zach and his shop is Matt's automotive, and in fact he's in New Jersey as well.

Lance Lupi: Oh really?

Jimmy Lea: Yes, he is in,

Jimmy Lea: I don't remember. Don't worry. Nevermind.

Lance Lupi: Small state. But it's a, but it's a big state.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we have a lot of, we have

Lance Lupi: a ton of people here, so there's a lot of of.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No it, it was awesome. I just loved what Chris was talking about on that because it's so true that the buy-in the input the company culture mm-hmm.

Jimmy Lea: It becomes this is us, this is our program, this is how we do things. And it's when you get it down and you get it set up Lance, I think you're gonna love it. I think you're gonna let, no, absolutely. So what is your take here? The difference between the franchise world and the automotive world?

Lance Lupi: I don't know that I really have one because this is all I really know. And the reality is we kind of work very independently. So it's not as structured as what most people might think of when they think of a franchise agreement.

Jimmy Lea: I said franchise, you know what? And I was thinking financial, the, between the financial world and the automotive world.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, I said, I did say franchise. You did pick that up. Yeah. And I apologize. Sure. I wanna know between your financial world and now in the automotive. Sure.

Lance Lupi: The differences.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Differences, similarities, challenges reward rewards.

Lance Lupi: Yeah. So you see what I'm wearing?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, got a hoodie on looking comfy.

Lance Lupi: Okay. So that's a lot different than a suit and tie. So

Jimmy Lea: yeah, you got,

Lance Lupi: there's definitely, you know, one advantage you know, I'm about seven minutes from my house versus, you know, an hour plus each direction. Plus a huge cost in commuting expenses. At the end of my that part of. Career. I was in the city.

Lance Lupi: I was taking the ferry into the city every morning to get to work and back to work. And that was, you know, if I told you the number of what I was spending every month on commuting and then the time, all that time back and forth, I mean, it's so much different, you know, so my stress level, while it probably should be greater, is actually less.

Jimmy Lea: Believe it. I believe it. I believe it in this role.

Lance Lupi: And I think that's partially because I'm in control.

Jimmy Lea: Yes.

Lance Lupi: Right. I'm not beholden to, to someone else. Other

Jimmy Lea: than the customer.

Lance Lupi: Other than the customer. But I mean, I control all that.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Right. So, so that's something I'm empowered to do anything.

Lance Lupi: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Right.

Lance Lupi: Yeah. And I don't

Lance Lupi: have to, you know, take orders really from anybody else. But me.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, yeah, I drive that. And your commute is glorious.

Lance Lupi: My commute is glorious. I need to run home and, you know, the, until my daughter just left for college prior to that, her, you know, being here for high school for her was a tremendous benefit.

Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. She could just pop in and say, Hey, pops, how you doing?

Lance Lupi: Or if she needed something I needed, she forgot something at, you know, home, I could run it over to her or whatever. So, so that, that was a a huge win, you know, for the both of us.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's very cool. The,

Lance Lupi: The other side of that equation, well, the.

Lance Lupi: Not the same.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, it's not the same. But the re reduction and one of the things having to pay for the commute, that does help. That's true. Mm-hmm. And then you've also got the, the less stress factor that's gotta happen as well. Correct. So what does, but I'm trying to change all those things so that, that's why I'm here.

Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. So what does the what does it look like when you approach father-in-law and he's looking for the escapee, the escape, the exit door. Yeah. And he is ready to go out. What, how does that conversation go? And where do you settle on getting to a number?

Lance Lupi: Well, it was, you know, they were just like, listen, we're thinking about getting out of this. And I said, well, let's not do that just yet. Why don't we wait and see how things go? Okay, let me step in. Let me start learning. Let me see what we can do with this thing. I think even during that,

Lance Lupi: the unknown that was going on at that particular point in time, I would. I felt that there was a tremendous opportunity. I still feel there's a tremendous opportunity in this industry, right as I sit and you know, I would sit in front of my house. I live on not a main road, but not a back street or anything like that.

Lance Lupi: I have a high school, a couple doors down from me. I have a big neighborhood development across the street from me, and I would see all these cars passing by. Thinking every one of those cars needs four tires. Every one of those cars needs an oil change. Every one of those cars needs a boozy whats, or you know, a tuneup, a, you know, a radiator or whatever.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They gotta drive forward. They need to, everyone house

Lance Lupi: across the street from me has 2, 3, 4 cars in their driveway.

Jimmy Lea: They all do. Yep. And some are garage queens, but some are the teenagers.

Jimmy Lea: Most

Lance Lupi: are not garage queens. Most car, most garages, including mine, do not contain cars.

Lance Lupi: They can contain the junk that you don't know where else to put it.

Jimmy Lea: Oh gosh yeah. No. And the

Lance Lupi: refrigerator and the freezer or whatever, and the work bench and things like that. But most. Most garages, at least here in New Jersey. Yeah. In my experience, do not contain vehicles.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's hilarious.

Jimmy Lea: That's hilarious. So you're working on cars. You go with the father-in-law and they, you said, Hey, let's not get out of this yet. Let me come down. And so you come down and you look at this and go, oh, you know what? I can see a future here. I think this is something we can take care of.

Jimmy Lea: Are you in the process of buying it off, buying it out, or did you pay it off in one fail swoop?

Lance Lupi: We're, that's still, you know, not worked out yet. Completely. Okay. It's still legally there.

Jimmy Lea: Okay. Very good.

Lance Lupi: I'm just an employee right now.

Jimmy Lea: You're an employee. Wow. That is very cool. And my $17,000 lesson is get it in writing.

Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And there you go.

Lance Lupi: Absolutely.

Jimmy Lea: So what does the shop look

Lance Lupi: like today? What's the footprint? So the footprint is I've got four bays. Two to three are primarily in use. One is kind of just a backup, you know, 'cause it's smaller because of the, you know, one of my lifts is a big drive on lift, so there's a smaller lift in front of it, so that's not really used too much.

Lance Lupi: Okay. But it's there in, it's in reserve. I've got two technicians that are here. One has been with the business here for. Pretty much since it, since my in-laws took over the business. Shortly thereafter, he joined and been here ever since. Had he had a brief departure during COVID.

Jimmy Lea: He's

Lance Lupi: from Europe, and he reasons he decided that he felt that he needed to move back to his home country.

Lance Lupi: That was short lived. Fortunately, in the interim, I did hi, bring on another person to. Take on some of those responsibilities that, that he had there. And then my other, the other tech who's our builder, so we're Lee Miles is a transmission franchise, but we do full repair, but specialty and transmission.

Lance Lupi: And I do have a transmission builder, and that's my second tech. And he's primarily a builder, but he does full repair.

Jimmy Lea: Wow. Yeah. You know, those, and then

Lance Lupi: so when I, so just I had, so when the one person came back from Europe, I kept on the third person for a period of time. I was able to sustain the work, but I.

Lance Lupi: We're back to those two people. The 20 year person and the 10 year plus person. But the 10 year plus person has another 30 plus years behind them in experience, and the 20 year person has another 15 years of experience behind them. Oh, wow. Prior to being here.

Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So

Lance Lupi: I'm fortunate for the team that's here they're tremendously talented.

Lance Lupi: They're passionate about their work and. They want to solve the problem for the customer.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. That's very cool. Yeah, the, those men and women that work on transmissions, that's a thousand piece puzzle without a picture. You, oh my gosh. That's some skill.

Lance Lupi: Yeah. He's tremendously skilled.

Lance Lupi: He is very particular about how he works. Examines each and every component that comes outta there and goes back in and knows all those little tricks and things that I'm just amazed when I, you know, watch 'em. I don't watch 'em too often 'cause I don't want to disturb him. But

Jimmy Lea: yeah,

Lance Lupi: when he talks about it, when he, when we're writing up narratives for customer invoices and things like that, I'm just, you know, amazed at the level of detail and the knowledge.

Lance Lupi: Steps that he has.

Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. That's just fascinating. The to know the tolerances and the abilities of the different gears and the mechanisms and the the different chemistry of the parts and pieces to know which part is mm-hmm. Working best and which one's gonna wear out first.

Jimmy Lea: These guys that have been working on these transmissions for so long it's second nature for him, and that's so cool.

Lance Lupi: It's. And because of his skill. I actually work, one of my wholesale accounts is a classic car restoration company.

Lance Lupi: Oh, wow.

Lance Lupi: So we'll, do you know, I don't know, eight to 12 units a month outta these older vehicles that he grew up on.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Yeah that's the car that he was working on. That's where he, when he was 15 years old, wanting to have a car to be able to drive to high school. That's what he was working on. Oh, that's awesome.

Lance Lupi: Exactly. So, so, it's great and it's, and it, you know, it allows me to have that extra piece of business that I wouldn't otherwise have if he wasn't in, in the building.

Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, that's great. And my dad, way back in the day, he was 14, 15, 16. The neighbor had a 57 Chevy and it wasn't running. It needed a new transmission. My dad bought it for 10 or 20 bucks, bought the car, took a taxi to the pick apart, took the transmission out of another 57, took a taxi back to home.

Jimmy Lea: And installed it with the transmission on his lap. On his lap. Yeah. And he installed the transmission in the guy's driveway. Installed it. Started it up. He drove it

Lance Lupi: outta

Lance Lupi: there.

Jimmy Lea: Drove it out.

Lance Lupi: How about that? That's a great story. That is a great, oh my gosh.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. To take it. Taxi. I have a friend who has

Lance Lupi: one of those

Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah.

Jimmy Lea: A 57. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a beautiful car. It's a beautiful car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's cool. Well, you, it sounds like you've got a great footprint, a great program, a great company, a great culture. You've got some great guys that are there working with you, bringing this to the forward. Yeah. To the future.

Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you have a service advisor or are you filling in on that position right now? I

Lance Lupi: am. That's why my hat looks the way it does, Jimmy.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you've you're doing the day to day. You,

Lance Lupi: you are I'm doing everything. I do everything. I mean there if it's not fixing a car, it falls on my shoulders.

Lance Lupi: Wow. That's awesome. That's awesome. So it's not so awesome. That's kind of where, you know, why I am where I am.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and why I've

Lance Lupi: made some decisions that I've made recently to change that.

Jimmy Lea: Okay. And what are some of those decisions you've made recently that have. Are making a difference for you?

Jimmy Lea: What, what's going on?

Lance Lupi: Well, it's the fact that I decided that, you know, I am on board,

Jimmy Lea: on board with the institute That's correct. Coaching and training. Yeah. You, there's the things that you know, you know, and there's things you know, you don't know. And the most dangerous is the things you don't know that you don't know.

Jimmy Lea: That's correct. Oh, that's awesome. So why get on with coaching and training? Finally after five years?

Lance Lupi: Yeah, so when I first got when I first got into this pro, well, not first got into it about two years in or so, some person just walked in and said, Hey, I'm a mobile diagnostic person, and I program computers and things like that.

Lance Lupi: So. I struck up a little bit of a, you know, relationship with that person in the beginning and he, this was a person that had owned his own shop, owned his own towing business owned, you know, a bunch of businesses. It's been a technician for, you know, 20 or 30 years or whatever. Wow. It was a great resource.

Lance Lupi: He was close by and I don't know, we just kind of connected a little bit and during all those conversations. He mentioned this guy, he said, you know, you should probably watch some videos from this guy. I said, who? Cecil.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, Cecil Bullard. Yeah.

Lance Lupi: So I went, you know, I started, you know, I would sit outside or sit in the house or sometime and I'd pop on YouTube and I pull up this guy Cecil Bullard, and I started listening to him and, you know, tons of other people.

Lance Lupi: On there, you know, Lucas and David would have him on, or, you know, they, they would have conversations, their shop owners I would watch. And so I and I would watch and start learning about all these things and that's how I came to A STA, I wanna make sure I pronounce it correctly. So that's how I came to A STA.

Lance Lupi: They were having a conversation about it, Lucas and David. And I decided that, you know, let me head down. That's where, you know, you and I first connected and I started taking some of those things that, that Cecil was saying and I started applying them.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Parts, margins, right. Labor, right.

Lance Lupi: All these different things that, that I really didn't know. Emotion. My, my favorite phrase from him, emotional.

Jimmy Lea: Discounting. Yeah. Emotional discounting. That's selling outta your front pocket because you think, oh my gosh, this is such a big bill. It's just a bill. Yeah.

Lance Lupi: So, so I started applying a lot of those things and I was having conversations with people I was having.

Lance Lupi: I was having conversations with him and I mean with, you know, my friend. And then most recently I watched a video with a se, a webinar with him and Michael Smith.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. That asked me anything, webinars,

Lance Lupi: that was the aha moment kind of. I'm gonna pause.

Jimmy Lea: Okay?

Lance Lupi: Okay. Is that,

Jimmy Lea: yeah, let's pause you Take care of the customer,

Lance Lupi: okay?

Lance Lupi: Okay. Thanks Jimmy. Hold on. I am back

Jimmy Lea: to me. Okay. Hey, right on. So here's the beauty of what we're doing here and for everybody. Yeah, we can start over. Everybody that's listening, that will be a probably two or three second pause for a 15 minute conversation of Lance taking care of the customers. And that's why we're here is to take care of the customers.

Jimmy Lea: So Lance, I appreciate you doing that, brother.

Lance Lupi: Not a problem. I appreciate you, you being patient with me, Jimmy. So, so a few weeks ago I watched a video with Cecil and Michael Smith, and that was kind of the catalyst. I started thinking about where do I want to be in a couple years, what do I wanna do?

Lance Lupi: And if I decided at some point in the future that. If I wanted to exit, what would that look like? And what, no matter what I did here, what would really be the value of the business? Would it really be that what I needed to be in order to fulfill the goals that I have for myself? And lo and behold, I guess probably because of, you know, that I got a call from someone asking me more about it.

Lance Lupi: And, we started to, I started to really engage in that conversation and I finally just said, if I don't do this now I'm either not gonna do it or I'm not gonna do it when I need to do it, so I might as well just rip the bandaid off and let's go for it.

Jimmy Lea: Oh that's awesome, man. That, yeah.

Jimmy Lea: And that conversation was with Michael Wil Trout. And Michael Wil. Trout asked you some of those hard questions like he did. What's holding you back? Yep. Me. Yeah. What's the biggest challenge? You And I'm aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. What's the biggest challenge in front of you? That you can't overcome yourself and you need a team.

Jimmy Lea: You need a coach, you need a community. Uhhuh

Lance Lupi: Yeah. Every, everything is an obstacle for me right now, because as I said before I'm wearing all the hats in this place and it's. Getting harder and harder to do it, and I'm not able to provide consistently the level of service that I want to provide.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Not bad, but it's just not everything I want it to be, and nor is it everything that it should be.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, and that's good. And I think a lot of people have the wrong conception of what a coach is. Like, a lot of people say, well, I don't want to have another boss. And a coach is not your boss.

Jimmy Lea: A coach is like a caddy. A coach is there to help advise you, and guide you and steer you in the right direction and say, Hey, wait a second. I think you might be heading for a bad situation here. You might want to steer around this one. Or you have a roadblock or a mountain that you think is just insurmountable.

Jimmy Lea: You come to the coach and they've solved it for three other companies, three other businesses. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or you're in a group environment. Yeah. Hey Lance, we've solved this five times. Here's five different solutions from five different markets and five different shop owners. Yeah. Now that mountain becomes a mole hill, you're able to step over it now.

Jimmy Lea: All right, man. Hey, let's just keep going. Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've kind of plateaued, right? I, you know, my, my numbers, although they have improved, they haven't improved in total revenue, but the numbers underneath those have improved.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Because of the changes that I, the incremental changes that I have made from watching, you know.

Lance Lupi: Cecil and all the and lots of others. I mean, I can't just, you know, not the only one, but there's there, there's tons of good content out there. Yeah. And little nuggets in a lot of those podcasts that I watch or listen to where, you know, they say something and probably, maybe sometimes I think it's not even intentional.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah.

Lance Lupi: Especially as you get further and further into to Lucas and David's podcast, they kind of, sometimes they stray a little bit, but sometimes there's just a good nugget. I listen to the end. They always say, no one listen to the end. I listen to the end.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. I listen to the end as well when I can get on their podcast.

Jimmy Lea: I yeah I love the conversations that people have. Their

Lance Lupi: banter back and forth is, I don't know how those two met, but their banter back and forth is pretty, pretty organic and. Fun and funny sometimes

Jimmy Lea: it, it really is, it's almost a situation where Lucas likes to, to poke the bear and then the bear erupts and he just sits back and giggles and watches the fireworks.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, shoot. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's pretty funny. And there's great information out there. We, there's a lot of information and there's a lot of noise. You wanna make sure that you subscribe to someone who has been there, done that to someone who has a proven track record that you want to emulate.

Jimmy Lea: And that's important. That's very important. Yeah. Sure. That you are listening to the right people.

Lance Lupi: And I felt that, you know, not just watching him, watching you, I mean, tons of webinars and things that I've, you know, been a part of that you were on that, you know, helped me polish some skills as well.

Lance Lupi: So, you know, Michael and Cecil and you, and it just felt like it was a good place to be and that I was gonna get the most out of it.

Jimmy Lea: Dude, I love it

Lance Lupi: from the institute.

Jimmy Lea: I love it. Welcome, welcome to the Family, man. We're excited to have you here with us.

Lance Lupi: So what is, I'm excited. I'm just, I'm my biggest you know, I'm nervous that I'm gonna let someone down.

Jimmy Lea: No. The only person you'd let down would be yourself. And that's the high expectations that we have of ourself, so.

Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: we're gonna set some high bars. And at that same time as you are reaching for these high bars that you think, there's no way, there's no way I can reach it. There's no way I'm gonna hit that.

Jimmy Lea: And then one day you do, and then you grab a hold of that bar, and now you pull yourself up and even higher. Sure. And in the process of the more you jump, the more you leap. The more you stretch yourself, the more you're gonna see, oh my gosh, look how far I've come. From where I was to where I am.

Jimmy Lea: So we're shooting for the moon. We're gonna fall in the stars, but eventually we're gonna hit that moon. We're gonna be there and we're gonna be there together, and that's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm

Lance Lupi: looking forward to it. Yeah, I've got a lot of things I need to achieve, so I need to get there.

Jimmy Lea: Yes. Good, good. And we will get there together. So speaking of getting there, what is the next year's plan, the three year, the five year, the 10 year plan? What do you, what does that look like? Mm-hmm.

Lance Lupi: For you, brother? Well, that's a great question. I, you know, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, I'd love to grow the business, like I said as I mentioned earlier, there's, I see tremendous opportunity and growth in this space.

Lance Lupi: Whether that means growing this location where I'm at now, or moving a location or adding locations, I don't know, but I just think that with the right help, that there are no limits really.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's so true. But,