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In this episode, Becca is joined by her friend and colleague Mia Pumo for an unscripted, honest debate about norms and whether they actually work.

Rather than offering a tidy answer, this conversation lives in the gray. Becca and Mia explore why norms are so commonly used in schools, why they often fail to change behavior, and under what conditions they can support trust, psychological safety, and productive collaboration.

The discussion challenges traditional, compliance-driven approaches to norms and asks deeper questions about what sits underneath behaviors like disengagement, side conversations, and surface-level agreement. Together, they examine the difference between norms rooted in control versus those grounded in connection, shared values, and ownership.

You’ll hear practical examples of when norms fall flat, when they work, and how leaders unintentionally undermine them by treating norms as static rules instead of living agreements. The episode also introduces a provocative reframe: using the Catalyst Mindsets™ to think about norms as a way to proactively address unmet needs and resistance rather than policing behavior.

This episode is for coaches and leaders who are ready to question long-standing practices, sit with ambiguity, and design learning spaces that prioritize trust, belonging, and meaningful engagement over compliance.

You can connect with Mia through her website!

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The Resistance Audit: Diagnose where the resistance is coming from!

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