After decades of ministry, John M. Perkins reflects on his legacy with Mark Labberton at the Christian Community Development Association conference. A steadfast leader in the integration of Christian faith and civil rights, Perkins draws on his memories to reflect on the deeper problems behind racism, justice, the redemptive quality of pain and his desire for the church to recover a gospel with "fresh relevance for our days." For more on the the topic of reconciling race, visit https://fullerstudio.fuller.edu/reconciling-race. John M. Perkins is a passionate civil rights advocate, community organizer, and founder of the Christian Community Development Association. For decades, Perkins has worked tirelessly to address civil rights, racism, justice, and more—all through the lens of his evangelical faith. His life's work is an inspiration to many, including faculty and staff at Fuller as the school continues to wrestle with difficult topics of race and justice. To hear community members reflect on their own experiences with reconciling race, visit https://fullerstudio.fuller.edu/story-table-reconciling-race/ "Conversing" is a podcast series produced by FULLER studio in which Dr. Labberton interviews leaders on the intersection of theology and culture. Mark Labberton has served as Fuller Seminary's fifth president since 2013. His experience includes 30 years of pastoral ministry, 16 of those as senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Berkeley, California. For more reflections from Dr. Labberton visit https://fullerstudio.fuller.edu/contributor/mark-labberton/. For more resources for a deeply formed spiritual life, visit FULLER studio at Fuller.edu/Studio.