Most organizations are built to do exactly what they do…and that’s the problem. When a core business starts to decay due to disruption, automation, or shifting customer demand, the instinct is to double down on efficiency, cost cutting, and short-term fixes. But that focus often crowds out the harder, riskier work of building what comes next. Nearly a decade ago, Dual Transformation offered a clear and compelling framework for this dilemma, yet nobody seems to be actually doing it.

In this episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack why dual transformations are so rare, why it’s even harder than it sounds, and why it matters more than ever in an AI-shaped economy. They dig into the tensions between “business A” (the core) and “business B” (the future), the funding and operating system traps that kill new growth, and practical moves leaders and internal change agents can make to actually pull of two transformations at once instead of just talking about it.

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s some type two fun you’ve had recently?

04:29 What is Dual Transformation and why now?

13:27 Sounds simple, yet deceptively hard

21:05 The 3 crisis points of a dual transformation

27:12 Recognizing when you’re in a dying business

30:57 Engineering a dual transformation from the inside out

37:24 Navigating the emotions of the dying business

39:14 Idea 1: Weekly feedback routines with customers

43:07 Idea 2: Import as little as possible from the old company

45:59 Idea 3: Write the manifesto for both businesses

47:29 Bonus Idea: Read Dual Transformation!

48:26 Wrap up

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.