In his book Break Through Pain, meditation expert Shinzen Young says that pain separates us from the divine, and learning to handle it skillfully is akin to grinding it into sand. In this conversation, Martha is recovering from surgery and describes using Young’s book to map and define her pain. She explains that pain is nature calling us to return to our bodies, but it doesn’t necessarily equate to suffering. There is magic in our minds that can transform pain into wisdom. (Originally aired: July 11, 2021)

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