In this episode, I sat down with Chuck DeGroat, known for his work on narcissism in church contexts, for a wide-ranging conversation about the intersection of narcissistic patterns and religious communities. Chuck shared insights from his clinical experience about how narcissism often emerges as a trauma response and explained the crucial distinction between narcissistic tendencies and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. We explored how narcissistic leadership patterns can manifest across the theological spectrum, from conservative to progressive spaces, and how congregations adopt collective defensive postures that both attract and reinforce narcissistic leadership styles. Using Mars Hill Church as a case study, we examined how an "at war with culture" mentality can drive church growth while simultaneously undermining empathy and authentic community engagement. The conversation concluded with a rich exploration of psychological and theological integration, drawing parallels between Internal Family Systems therapy and how different religious traditions handle internal contradictions. This discussion proved so fruitful that we've planned a follow-up episode focusing specifically on spiritual harm and abuse, which will be available to Patreon subscribers.

Chucks Website | Chuckdegroat.net

Episodes Mentioned:

Episode #187 with Molly Lacroix | Un-Shaming Each Part of Ourselves

Highlights:

11:20 Narcissism in Church Communities

24:33 Theological Connections Between Empathy and Narcissism

32:34 Narcissism and Church Dynamics

43:30 Spiritual Abuse and Community Dynamics

50:35 Integration and Multiplicity in Spirituality

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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