Back in full effect, Charles and Shireen are joined by their long time friend, music manager and visionary Gordan Dillard. They kick off talking about being a transplant in NYC and hustling. Coming from the Bay, Gordan was motivated by the music industry culture on the east coast. NYC provided lessons and pressure for him, when he was living in his aunt's basement, interning at a label and working at Aldo. Gordan says he always wanted to be an A&R and knew that it was an "eat what you kill" situation so he laid the foundation early(2:13-10:09). Charles reminds G that their group of 4 friends were called The Finesse Boys, wearing suits to work and finagling to get themselves into parties and networking events. Gordan started managing producers before artists and explains the differences. As talent, your team is an extension of you. Charles asked Gordan why he would never be an artist and he says he likes to be low key and strategize behind the scenes(12:39-20:02). Gordan relocated to LA for opportunity. He says he wasn't ready because he felt ike he didn't accomplish everything he wanted to in NYC, but says he eventually wants to move back to NYC when he makes more strides. Shireen says he would never have grown his business if he hadn't left and he's grateful for it. Gordan gives Charles and Shireen their flowers for how they've built their lives and community. He hopes it comes together similarly for him when its time to have a family. Charles asks how G knows when an artist is a star. G says when you're on the right path, you'll just feel it. He tells the story about how he became Doja Cat's manager, how nothing was forced. He connected with a homie in Miami who told him about her, casually played her music and he was in. He explains his vetting process, how he needs to get to know an artist and see how hard they work and how focused they are before committing. Most artists are opportunists because they need to find people to help them get to the next thing. If you're not creating the strategies as a manager, they'll leave you(22:17-31:31). G says its important to weigh the sacrifice, and how elevating changes the people you call friends. Everyone isn't always happy for you and sometimes folks' behavior doesn't fit the new level you're on. Everybody can't go! Friendships in our 30's means we understand everyone has work and responsibilities. G mentions taking care of his mother and how his lifestyle has changed so he can't slow down. Charles shares the story of going to Coachella with Gordan when Doja Cat headlined and how impressed he was with her performance and watching the progression of Gordan's vision. Started in Gap and Aldo, and we're a far cry from there now! #VATTax

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