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In Don't @ Me (3:34), Tom discusses a few highlights from the book, "Calling Bullshit" and how they remind him of some important principles in education. Then, Tom is joined by Ken O'Connor (16:00) to discuss his journey from Melbourne to Toronto, to talk assessment & grading (of course), and to learn about his illustrious Field Hockey umpiring career!. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:11:21), Tom focuses on the idea of teaching to the test and what we can do to try to mitigate the fact that sometimes people’s behavior changes when they know they are being tested.
In Don't @ Me (1:56), Tom explores the lessons about creativity he learned from the television show, Songland. Then, Tom is joined by Mandy Stalets (15:20) to discuss teaching during the pandemic, math instruction & assessment, as well as her forthcoming book. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:04:48), Tom focuses on a critical end-of-year question that so many teachers face and how to refocus ourselves on what truly matters; do I have enough evidence of learning?
In Don't @ Me (2:11), Tom discusses why public proclamations of humility are really an attempt to cover up a hidden superiority complex. Then, Tom is joined by Jennifer Abrams (13:15) to discuss how we prepare for (and follow through on) difficult conversations. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:04:48), Tom explores the research on quality constructed-response items and offers some suggestions specific to extended written responses.
In Don't @ Me (1:18), Tom explores the societal contradiction that emerges when we finish the expression, "With Ages Comes Wisdom." Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Yvette Jackson (13:55), author of Pedagogy of Confidence to discuss the equity issue surrounding Special Education and Gifted programs. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:32:14), Tom discusses the formative role of non-verbal cues in making instructional decisions.
In Don't @ Me (1:58), Tom expresses his appreciation to all teachers who have, over the past 12-14 months, done heroic work in supporting learners through these unprecedented times. Then, Tom is joined by Natalie Vardabasso (12:57), Assessment Instructional Design Lead at Calgary Academy and host of the EduCrush Podcast. Finally, in Assessment Corner (58:35), Tom discusses the importance of knowing your assessment purpose and why it sets up everything else throughout the assessment cycle.
In Don't @ Me (2:06), Tom addresses the current obsession with false dichotomies and asserts that one in education has to stop. Then, Tom is joined by Catlin Tucker (17:05), author, speaker, leader, and expert in Blended Learning to discuss the ways teachers can efficiently and effectively implement a variety of models. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:05:45), Tom highlights why examining standards is more than just identifying the verb; that the depth of thinking must also be considered if assessment tasks are going to rise to the promise of the standards.
In Don't @ Me (2:01), Tom tells the story of Father Phil and why he was responsible for Tom choosing education as a career. Then, Tom is joined by LaVonna Roth (16:26), Founder and Lead Presenter at IGNITE your S.H.I.N.E.™ for a discussion about student strengths, SEL, and neuroscience. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:08:36), Tom, in part 2, explores homework and suggests six important questions every teacher should ask about their homework routines.
In Don't @ Me (1:50), Tom discusses how, by taking a balanced approach to issues or topics, people end up debating the extreme positions on both sides. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Muhammad Khalifa (18:07) to discuss his book "Culturally Responsive School Leadership" and racial equity, in general. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:21:48), Tom begins the first of two parts on the topic of homework.
In Don't @ Me (2:37), Tom, as a counter to last week, identifies the most efficient and effective happiness booster. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Lee Ann Jung (14:37) to discuss sound assessment practices within the Universal Design for Learning framework. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:07:02), Tom describes five guidelines for schools as they separate academic achievement from the most essential habits of learning.
In Don't @ Me (2:16), Tom identifies the most efficient and effective happiness killer. Then (15:11) hear how the first 24 guests have answered the question, "What's your definition of success?" Finally, in Assessment Corner (37:02), Tom describes why conversations about a new vision for university transcripts need to be thought through in terms of plausibility for the end-users; that visions that have no real plausibility of execution are counter-productive to bringing about meaningful change.
From the publisher's feed
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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