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In Don't @ Me (1:24), Tom takes aim at the relentlessly outraged and details why we are all at risk of losing all perspective, resiliency, individuality, & common-sense. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Matt Townsley (15:30) to discuss the implementation of standards-based grading at the Secondary level. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:11:40), Tom (continuing from last week's episode) uses Dr. John Kotter's research to explore the important phases necessary to transform the assessment & grading culture of a school.
In Don't @ Me (2:45), Tom examines the question of why it's so hard for us to be happy for others. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Peter DeWitt (17:38) to discuss what it means to be an instructional leader. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:19:07), Tom uses Dr. John Kotter's research to explore the important phases necessary to transform the assessment & grading culture of a school.
In Don't @ Me (3:51), Tom outlines the challenges we face when deciding whether someone is defending themselves or being defensive. Then, Tom is joined by Alexa Schmid (16:42), Middle School Principal at the International School of Kenya, to discuss the findings of her doctoral research on Justice, Equity, and Cultural Competence in International Education. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:12:35), Tom explores the inadvertent influence our lingering normative tendencies can have on the implementation of standards-based grading practices.
In Don't @ Me (2:13), Tom highlights the psychological phenomenon of "introspection illusion" (via Dr. Emily Pronin) and talks about its impact on both our disagreements with colleagues and on student self-reflection. Then, Tom is joined by Natalie Conway (13:19) to discuss online learning and what it takes to create a truly rich experience for online learners. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:04:00), Tom explores the oft-overlooked aspect of report card reform; is the new report card consumable to parents and families?
In this bonus episode, Tom is joined by Tom Guskey to discuss the recent decision by the Biden Administration to mandate that standardized tests proceed this spring. The conversation focuses on this acute decision and standardized tests in general.
In Don't @ Me (2:05) Tom takes aim at those who (wrongly) use the terms like "EduSpeak" or "Buzzword" to refer to important, research-validated processes. Then, Tom is joined by Trevor MacKenzie (10:02) to discuss inquiry-based learning and how to bring more student agency to the classroom. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:10:03), Tom explores the 4 directions and the 2 dimensions of student self-reflection.
In Don't @ Me (1:34) Tom shares his thoughts on why (now more than ever) people use labels to undercut the credibility of those with whom they disagree. Then, Tom is joined by Starr Sackstein (10:48) to discuss her assessment journey and her quest to go "gradeless." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:05:24), Tom explores when multiple-choice is an appropriate assessment method and how to develop a quality multiple-choice item.
In Don't @ Me (6:18) Tom examines the strange relationship some educators have with research and suggests that our experience be used to add the nuances of implementation. Then, Tom is joined by Jay McTighe (15:15) to discuss "Designing Authentic Performance Tasks and Projects." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:20:30), Tom explores how teachers can assess creativity without stifling creativity and how to develop criteria to assess the creative process.
From the publisher's feed
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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